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MB Trading Futures - Introduction

  • #4,721
  • Jan 19, 2010 11:14am Jan 19, 2010 11:14am
Quoting jleblang
MJ,

... If you want to limit your risk, don't hold positions through maintenance, but I think you'll find it is just easier not to concern yourself with it. However, Forex markets are unpredictable as we all know and I don't want to say it will never happen.
Thanks - a fair answer. I know what I have to expect in this regard Thanks.
__Thanks__ MJ
  • #4,722
  • Jan 19, 2010 12:24pm Jan 19, 2010 12:24pm
I posted this in another thread in response to a question I received regarding "as an MB client, who am I trading against" - I thought it would be useful here as well.


"Our system sends your order to whatever destination offers the best price and fastest response at the time your order is placed and marketable. For example, if you go to buy 10 lots EURUSD at the market and there is a seller in the form of another customer for 10 lots on the ask, your order will match off with that trader as it is the best price and sitting right on the ECN for immediate execution. If there are no customer orders at the ask, then the system routes your order to whichever banks are sitting on the ask. Your question shows a complete lack of understanding of the process, however, and here’s why. Your question implies that when you buy and then sell, either you made money or the bank/desk/customer on the other end did. That would be true of a deal desk or even an STP platform that is a front for one bank. However, that is not the case here because your buy order might get routed to one bank and your sell order when you close the position could get routed to a different bank based on who is on the bid at the time. Heck, you might even buy from a customer and sell to a bank. There’s no “round tripping” on an ECN/STP platform where one entity is the offset for all trades. If a bank really wanted to be the offset on just about all of our trades, there is one way they could try to do this, which would be to display their orders with a 0.1 pip spread or something like this. Now they would be the best bid and best ask all day long and most of the orders would get routed to them. But the reality is that beyond the old school deal desk world, this isn’t how forex works. A bank that is trying to sell EURUSD would put their quote so that they are the best ask on our system, and if they want to sell more, they lower the price until buyers hit them. They aren’t looking to buy at all in that case…they have a position to sell or they want to get short themselves."
  • #4,723
  • Jan 19, 2010 1:25pm Jan 19, 2010 1:25pm
Quoting jleblang
I posted this in another thread in response to a question I received regarding "as an MB client, who am I trading against" - I thought it would be useful here as well.


"Our system sends your order to whatever destination offers the best price and fastest response at the time your order is placed and marketable. For example, if you go to buy 10 lots EURUSD at the market and there is a seller in the form of another customer for 10 lots on the ask, your order will match off with that trader as it is the best price and sitting right on the ECN...

OK, so I'm trading against other MB trading customers and against your liquidity providers, just like in a market maker broker but without dealing desk (this is the good point).

So, who are at this moment your liquidity providers banks?

And another question, what happens if in a moment all your customers and all your provider banks are for example buying EURUSDs and there is nobody selling? In that hipotetical case no order can be done because there are no matches and you are not maker makers, right? The market would be frozen, because the market of a MB FX customer is reduced to other customers and to your bank providers, the broker don't take part...
  • #4,724
  • Jan 19, 2010 3:27pm Jan 19, 2010 3:27pm
Quoting Trad3r
OK, so I'm trading against other MB trading customers and against your liquidity providers, just like in a market maker broker but without dealing desk (this is the good point).

So, who are at this moment your liquidity providers banks?

And another question, what happens if in a moment all your customers and all your provider banks are for example buying EURUSDs and there is nobody selling? In that hipotetical case no order can be done because there are no matches and you are not maker makers, right? The market would be frozen, because the market...
Trad3r,

That’s kinda of like saying “What happens if everyone wants to sell AAPL stock and no one wants to buy it?” It’s not a practical question since there are always orders both ways, but buying and selling is what makes the market go up and down. This is true about any market, including FOREX.

All participants (including you) on our system are anonymous. That’s the whole point of an ECN. You don’t want us telling a bank which way you are trading. They don’t want anyone to know either. I can tell you that there are about a dozen large banks, many more smaller banks and pools of liquidity, plus our customers. We will never release information about our providers as those are private (and expensive) relationships.
  • #4,725
  • Jan 19, 2010 5:21pm Jan 19, 2010 5:21pm
Quoting jleblang
Fudo,

All orders are server side held, including trailing stops.
Justin,

Thanks for your quick response.

I was testing Ninjatrader and noticed that with OCO orders, the second order isn't held on MBT's server.

Is it possible to connect Ninjatrader to the MBT server for live charting while using Navigator for placing orders? I'm getting an error prompt when I try to connect Ninjatrader while Navigator is running.

Cheers,

Fudo
  • #4,726
  • Jan 19, 2010 5:40pm Jan 19, 2010 5:40pm
You can connect NinjaTrader to your MBT Demo account and have MBT navigator open and connected to Live account, quotes will be the same or very close most of the time


Quoting Fudomyo
Justin,

Thanks for your quick response.

I was testing Ninjatrader and noticed that with OCO orders, the second order isn't held on MBT's server.

Is it possible to connect Ninjatrader to the MBT server for live charting while using Navigator for placing orders? I'm getting an error prompt when I try to connect Ninjatrader while Navigator is running.

Cheers,

Fudo
  • #4,727
  • Edited 6:08pm Jan 19, 2010 5:50pm | Edited 6:08pm
Quoting jleblang
All participants (including you) on our system are anonymous. That’s the whole point of an ECN. You don’t want us telling a bank which way you are trading. They don’t want anyone to know either. I can tell you that there are about a dozen large banks, many more smaller banks and pools of liquidity, plus our customers. We will never release information about our providers as those are private (and expensive) relationships.

hi jleblang,

This is just a question of interest: are your liquidity provider - providing exclusively for you?

I got a reply from an other broker where I'm also interested in a mail which sounded like that.
(similar to: xx of the largest FX providers streaming prices exclusively to us)

Which I found a little bit strange. I did not yet further ask - as I'm first focusing on my checkout of MBT and I take it step by step.
__Thanks__ MJ
  • #4,728
  • Jan 19, 2010 8:20pm Jan 19, 2010 8:20pm
Quoting M_j
hi jleblang,

This is just a question of interest: are your liquidity provider - providing exclusively for you?

I got a reply from an other broker where I'm also interested in a mail which sounded like that.
(similar to: xx of the largest FX providers streaming prices exclusively to us)

Which I found a little bit strange. I did not yet further ask - as I'm first focusing on my checkout of MBT and I take it step by step.
M_j,

I would simply say this. Obviously, when we say we have a dozen large banks, and I mean large ones, it would not make sense that 12 of the largest banks in the world are exclusively providing quotes to us. Could some of them be doing that? Sure, they could be. But that’s not really what we want. I would throw up a warning flag if someone says that a bank is giving them exclusive quoting. What you want in a marketplace is competing interests. We wouldn’t go to a bank that we wanted to add to our system and ask if they would become a liquidity provider just for us. We want to find liquidity providers and put them in the mix for you. Each relationship requires that we leave a sizable deposit on hand with that bank. This is a very serious business, and we aren’t looking to cut corners.
  • #4,729
  • Jan 20, 2010 12:21am Jan 20, 2010 12:21am
Quoting DrainBamage
You can connect NinjaTrader to your MBT Demo account and have MBT navigator open and connected to Live account, quotes will be the same or very close most of the time
cheers. much appreciated.
  • #4,730
  • Jan 20, 2010 4:41am Jan 20, 2010 4:41am
Quoting M_j
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...73#post3204073
Larseg-

We used to have two maintenance periods, one at 00:00 and one at 17:00 EST. About four months ago, we ended the 00:00 maintenance and moved it to match the 17:00 settlement one, so there is no longer a 00:00 shutdown period, which was in the middle of core European trading. [i]

However, the 17:00 period is a settlement timeframe for banks in the Interbank system. They all shut down. Only a deal desk platform would continue operating during that...
The Midnight crossover was killing me and others. Usually there navigator, would hang and you'd have to be restarted at 1 or 2 or 3 AM (whenever you woke up). This happened alot on live and demo accounts. I gave up trading with the SDK, because they're too unstable. Developer support is awful. They just sticks their head in the sand and say we don't have a problem.

Also, the SDK uses microsoft com objects, which anyone who does development of realtime system knows, microsoft products are too unstable to use in a realtime environment.

Don't get me wrong MB has good intentions they just have done a horrible job executing them over the last 5 years that I've been with them.
.
  • #4,731
  • Jan 20, 2010 7:19am Jan 20, 2010 7:19am
I've had an MB account for over 3 years and I've been pretty happy with them..but in the last few weeks, I'm getting a lot of slippage on my orders.Yesterday, for example, on two seperate orders where I was exiting from a trade, in a fast moving market, it took over 10-12 seconds each to exit the trade. Same thing the day before on the euro/usd. I called the trade desk and even they agreed it was very slow in executing..and told me to keep calling when this happens. I hope it gets better, because I'm an active trader and those extra 10 seconds to fill are costing me pips.
  • #4,732
  • Edited Jan 21, 2010 2:35am Jan 20, 2010 7:49am | Edited Jan 21, 2010 2:35am
Quoting redpine
The Midnight crossover was killing me and others. Usually there navigator, would hang and you'd have to be restarted at 1 or 2 or 3 AM (whenever you woke up). This happened alot on live and demo accounts.....
Thanks redpine,

Always good hearing from people who have been trading for some time.

* I'm also not particularly interested in com - as I'm mainly a Linux person.

* I'm mainly interested in automatic trading - so I thanks you for your personal input. This are of course some of the worries I have regarding the maintenance situation and so on...

* the other thing is that it seems to me - that the Demo platform is not suitable for any serious testing.
it is obvious by the way the purpose of the Demo platform is presented in this thread.

But going Live with something one can not properly test is not what I want.


For me as an auto-trader a stable platform is extremely important - as this is one of the purpose: NOT to have to watch 24 hours if I'm still connected. Or having to call too often a helpdesk to close a hanging order.

Thanks for your input.
__Thanks__ MJ
  • #4,733
  • Jan 20, 2010 7:59am Jan 20, 2010 7:59am
The SDK is not unstable at all - i got a project running 24/6 since ages, without any troubles. Its also very well documented and supported through the yahoo SDK group.

Linux/Unix users have to work with FIX, which they offer as well.
  • #4,734
  • Jan 20, 2010 8:52am Jan 20, 2010 8:52am
Quoting redpine
The Midnight crossover was killing me and others....
They got rid of midnight rollover last year.
  • #4,735
  • Jan 20, 2010 10:34am Jan 20, 2010 10:34am
Quoting Forex007
I thought the commissions rate applies to where you a/c is open, not to where you live. I.e. if your a/c is with MBT US, your commissions should be the same as for the US residents.
Nope, just checked my closed trade, I'm still getting charged $5 per 100K .. and get this .... my application is for US and my account in a US bank!

I think US MBT thinks all Chinese are rich and beginning to think one rule for one race and another for another race
  • #4,736
  • Jan 20, 2010 10:38am Jan 20, 2010 10:38am
Quoting pa18
Nope, just checked my closed trade, I'm still getting charged $5 per 100K .. and get this .... my application is for US and my account in a US bank!

I think US MBT thinks all Chinese are rich and beginning to think one rule for one race and another for another race
pa18,

Email me directly at [email protected] with your account number so we can verify location and commission.

If you were trading non-based currency pair, don't forget your commission would be (exch rate * comm) =

For example: EUR/USD trading 100k (1.4103 * $2.95) = $4.16 per 100k USD traded.
  • #4,737
  • Jan 20, 2010 11:38am Jan 20, 2010 11:38am
I must be doing something wrong then because my ATS has been up and running for over a year with no problems. The only problems that I encounter are with my trading logic , NOT with MBT SDK.
.NET suffers from the same problems as any other platform/environment/language: people who don't know what they are doing.

Quoting redpine
The Midnight crossover was killing me and others....
  • #4,738
  • Jan 20, 2010 12:25pm Jan 20, 2010 12:25pm
Quoting jleblang
Trad3r,...
Why you don't want to tell who are your liquidity providing banks? All major respectable brokers publish who are their liquidity providers. Are you hidding something?

I want to remember you that when you trade against a bank the bank is acting like a market maker...
  • #4,739
  • Jan 20, 2010 12:48pm Jan 20, 2010 12:48pm
Quoting Trad3r
Why you don't want to tell who are your liquidity providing banks? All major respectable brokers publish who are their liquidity providers. Are you hidding something?

I want to remember you that when you trade against a bank the bank is acting like a market maker...
Trad3r-

He already answered this question. The bank is not acting as a market maker against you since your order might not come back to them on an ECN system when you close it. Please grasp this basic concept so we can stop hearing from you.

A true ECN should be anonymous to all parties.
  • #4,740
  • Jan 20, 2010 1:00pm Jan 20, 2010 1:00pm
Quoting wannatradefx
Trad3r-

He already answered this question. The bank is not acting as a market maker against you since your order might not come back to them on an ECN system when you close it. Please grasp this basic concept so we can stop hearing from you.

A true ECN should be anonymous to all parties.
LOL, you know what is the difference between dealing desk (DD) and market maker (MM)? Because they aren't the same thing. A MM takes the other part of your trade, so you are in fact trading against him, BUT a NDD MM don't know what are your trades, only if the MM has DD, a liquidity providing bank in a ECN environment acts in fact like a NDD MM.
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