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MB Trading Futures - Introduction

  • #4,681
  • Jan 14, 2010 10:17pm Jan 14, 2010 10:17pm
To Tar and Kibescorp,

I dont want to interrupt your dialogue, but an easy way to understand how your trading is affected by a reduction in leverage is to play with your Demo account.

Place a trade and make note of the margin required and the Margin Level.

Now place another trade, again noting the margin required and the Margin Level.

As you continue to add trades, margin goes up and Margin Level goes down until a margin call is issued. In going through this exercise, you can fully understand how leverage works.

Then set up a spread sheet and work out how many trades (or lots) you can enter before you exhaust margin level for 100:1 and 10:1 with the same Account Balance. 10:1 severely restricts your ability to make good money in forex, and turns the forex market into something with expectations more in line with what is available in the stock market.

If you are a serious trader, who has come to depend on your forex trading to provide your primary source of income, then understand that it will no longer be your primary source of income if this 10:1 leverage goes through.
  • #4,682
  • Jan 14, 2010 10:27pm Jan 14, 2010 10:27pm
Quoting pipnu2me
To Tar and Kibescorp,

I dont want to interrupt your dialogue, but an easy way to understand how your trading is affected by a reduction in leverage is to play with your Demo account.

Place a trade and make note of the margin required and the Margin Level.

Now place another trade, again noting the margin required and the Margin Level.

As you continue to add trades, margin goes up and Margin Level goes down until a margin call is issued....
10:1 is low leverage but u dont need 100:1 to be successful , professionals dont need more than 25:1 , maybe maximum 50:1 for scalping with tight stops , 400:1 and 100:1 is a gift for marketmakers ...
  • #4,683
  • Edited 10:51am Jan 15, 2010 10:35am | Edited 10:51am
What is really irritating is that so many people around here are so smug and presumptuous in defending this proposal because they believe you don't "need" that much leverage.

These are obviously the people that set tight stops and believe that that is the only way to win in Forex.

Here's a news flash:

Not everyone sets tight stops. I rarely ever set a stop loss, and I have NEVER ever blown an account or even come close to it. Just for the record, it's been months since I've even taken a loss on a position.

The reason for that is because I don't ALLOW my positions to close out unless I at least break even.

For those of you who don't know what the hell you're doing, then yeah, that might seem risky to you. Unlike at least 90% of the morons trading out there, I've actually mastered the entire spectrum of both the fundamental as well as technical aspects of the art of Forex trading. I'm not screwing around.

In other words, I don't trade when there is not a clear trend, and unlike most, I can actually anticipate with nearly 95% accuracy about when and where a trend will start and stop.

But when I do turn out to be wrong, I need a good deal of cushion (excess equity) to ride out the trend until I can close the position at a breakeven point. This is how I have been able to maintain 99% profitable trades.

I'm not here to screw around, and those of us who actually know what we're doing don't appreciate the rest of you telling us what we do or do not need to trade. Get it through your heads: not everyone sets tight stops and loses every third trade, which sounds like the case for most of you. Some of us are smarter than that, so don't even presume to tell the rest of us how we should trade.


Quoting pipnu2me
As you continue to add trades, margin goes up and Margin Level goes down until a margin call is issued.

10:1 severely restricts your ability to make good money in forex, and turns the forex market into something with expectations more in line with what is available in the stock market.

If you are a serious trader, who has come to depend on your forex trading to provide your primary source of income, then understand that it will no longer be your primary source of income if this 10:1 leverage goes through.
Agreed. Obviously many people here don't understand that it's the fact that the margin is growing from 1% to 10% that is the problem. It's about how much cushion you have, not have much you can stretch your money. Those who set tight stops and lose every other trade aren't going to understand that, nor will they ever grow their accounts to anywhere anytime soon.

My personal trading style and strategies are exactly why I would never make it with a MM ... nor have I ever used one. For one thing, I would have raped a MM's funds ten ways to Sunday within a couple of months and gotten booted from my account quicker than they can hunt stops.
  • #4,684
  • Jan 15, 2010 11:58am Jan 15, 2010 11:58am
Quoting kibescorp
What is really irritating is that so many people around here are so smug and presumptuous in defending this proposal because they believe you don't "need" that much leverage.

These are obviously the people that set tight stops and believe that that is the only way to win in Forex.

Here's a news flash:

Not everyone sets tight stops. I rarely ever set a stop loss, and I have NEVER ever blown an account or even come close to it. Just for the record, it's been months since I've even taken a loss on a position.

The reason for that is...
No, I've never seen smug on this board before. Well, now maybe.
  • #4,685
  • Jan 15, 2010 1:20pm Jan 15, 2010 1:20pm
Quoting kibescorp
What is really irritating is that so many people around here are so smug and presumptuous in defending this proposal because they believe you don't "need" that much leverage.

These are obviously the people that set tight stops and believe that that is the only way to win in Forex.

Here's a news flash:

Not everyone sets tight stops. I rarely ever set a stop loss, and I have NEVER ever blown an account or even come close to it. Just for the record, it's been months since I've even taken a loss on a position.

The reason for that is...
U dont use stops good luck ...
  • #4,686
  • Jan 16, 2010 12:13am Jan 16, 2010 12:13am
Quoting kibescorp
What is really irritating is that so many people around here are so smug and presumptuous in defending this proposal because they believe you don't "need" that much leverage.

These are obviously the people that set tight stops and believe that that is the only way to win in Forex.

Here's a news flash:

Not everyone sets tight stops. I rarely ever set a stop loss, and I have NEVER ever blown an account or even come close to it. Just for the record, it's been months since I've even taken a loss on a position.

The reason for that is...
Where can I read about how you trade?
  • #4,687
  • Jan 16, 2010 4:51am Jan 16, 2010 4:51am
Quoting jleblang
Pavikogm,

Have you reported this to the desk or support? I checked our system and I see no reports of this bug you are describing.

I’m not saying it isn’t real, but without some sort of ticket in our system, no one would be looking to fix it. Very important to report issues you have to us.
Ok. I've just opened a support ticket. Definately there's something wrong since 11th January 2010. In Web history Profit/Loss report I have many orders with 1000 Quantity (0.1 lot), that have 0.0 commission and 0.0 profit/loss. These were never before.
  • #4,688
  • Jan 16, 2010 6:53am Jan 16, 2010 6:53am
I run the risk of being smug on the board but here it goes...

This is basic math and it is not a good thing. Whenever the government seeks to restrict your freedom it is bad. Heres how it will break down for you...

*Current Margin Requirement in USD:*
EUR/USD: $160
USD/JPY: $100
GBP/USD: $180
USD/CHF: $100

*If 10:1 leverage proposal goes into effect:*
EUR/USD: $1,600
USD/JPY: $1,000
GBP/USD: $1,800
USD/CHF: $1,000

This would really put most of the smaller traders if not all of them right out of the trading business.

Write your congressman and tell them you are going to vote them out of office if they pass this piece of crap that does nothing to protect anyone. The only other alternative is to take your account to a foreign broker.

That is what I'm going to do. Instead of writing a check to MB I'm gonna be wiring money to Switzerland. I'm sure many will do the same. How does that help the economy?
  • #4,689
  • Jan 16, 2010 7:39am Jan 16, 2010 7:39am
Quoting kibescorp
In other words, I don't trade when there is not a clear trend, and unlike most, I can actually anticipate with nearly 95% accuracy about when and where a trend will start and stop.

But when I do turn out to be wrong, I need a good deal of cushion (excess equity) to ride out the trend until I can close the position at a breakeven point. This is how I have been able to maintain 99% profitable trades.
Having traded in forex since I was an options broker back in the late '90's I've had the privilege to trade and train with some the of the most talented forex traders around...at least in the US.

None of them would ever lay claim that they could predict the market or make 99% profitable trades. Trading without a stop...at least a mental stop....sounds like you have no rules for your trading strategy and you just get "married" to your trade until it comes back to your BE point. It doesn't sound like you control your trade at all. It sounds like you just let it take you for a ride while you sit and hope it comes back to your price. While you are waiting you are probably missing trades in the same pair that could have more than made up for what you would have lost had you just taken the stop.

What I would suggest is stop trading the demo account, start putting some real money on the line, stop trying to predict the market and develop a trading strategy for yourself instead of just sitting and waiting for your price to come back to the BE point. That's a rookie strategy if I ever heard one.

Also, you might try not spouting off about ridiculous numbers meant to impress people on this board that more experienced traders know are not true. You show your inexperience in doing so.

How's that for being smug?
  • #4,690
  • Jan 16, 2010 9:03am Jan 16, 2010 9:03am
Guys, can I ask about the input of a manual stop loss order for dealing with MBT?

I have a long order, to set a manual stop loss, you can place a sell stop market or a sell stop limit to close out.

I have a short order, to set a manual stop loss, you can place a buy stop market or a buy stop limit to close out

Are these the correct orders to be using?

Also, I guessing it's not advisable to use stop limit orders as stop loss orders?
  • #4,691
  • Jan 16, 2010 6:33pm Jan 16, 2010 6:33pm
I'm quite impressed.


I started just today reading through this thread ( currently page 48) but what jleblang does (at least until page 48 - hope I don't have to change my mind till the end ) is very recommendable for any company.

My respect.
__Thanks__ MJ
  • #4,692
  • Jan 17, 2010 7:46am Jan 17, 2010 7:46am
We need to consider the possibility the intent of the cftc may not be to push forex to 10:1. As I look through all the posts in this and other threads, I see most people take a position either for or against 10:1.

Put yourself in the position of a regulator. If you want to push a regulation through, and you make it extreme, then wouldnt the public be more accepting of a compromise position to a less extreme measure, say 25:1? Or even 50:1?

Considering the situation a year ago when the talk was about 2:1, this move towards 10:1 already seems like a softening to those of us who are naive enough to believe 10:1 is their true intent.

I think the objective is to reduce leverage this year, to whatever they can get without creating a new monster. Some traders are OK with 10:1. Some of us need 100:1. But we are all in this together. If we dont stand together and support each other on this now, we will all suffer separately at some point.

If you intend to respond to the cftc's request for comments, please make sure you think through what you want them to hear from you. Think about this from their point of view. Read the information that is currently available from the cftc and the various news outlets regarding the stated purpose of the proposed changes--"to combat fraud". Then take the time to compose a well thought out position that states 1) how this change will affect you personally--that is, will you have to increase your account sizes, will you have to lower your expectations from trading, or will you have to work at trading longer hours, etc in order to compensate for the change, and 2) suggest the cftc look at other methods to control fraud--that is, please dont penalize the people for whom the retail spot currency market was created in order to punish those who would use the forex markets in order to launder money obtained in an unlawful manner.
  • #4,693
  • Jan 17, 2010 10:05am Jan 17, 2010 10:05am
Quoting M_j
I'm quite impressed.


I started just today reading through this thread ( currently page 48) but what jleblang does (at least until page 48 - hope I don't have to change my mind till the end ) is very recommendable for any company.

My respect.
Agreed! A really good job being done representing!
  • #4,694
  • Edited 12:35pm Jan 17, 2010 12:23pm | Edited 12:35pm
Quoting Pip Dawg
What I would suggest is stop trading the demo account, start putting some real money on the line, stop trying to predict the market and develop a trading strategy for yourself instead of just sitting and waiting for your price to come back to the BE point. That's a rookie strategy if I ever heard one.
You're calling me a rookie? That's rich, coming from someone who is a classic example of all the tools out there who are losing money left and right because they're too incompetent to even be in the investment game.

I've been trading live for nearly a year now and have grown my account capital to 22x what it was when I started out in early '09. I make anywhere from 5-15 trades per week, so why don't you do the math and figure out how many times I've been around the block. I just recently took on MB Trading as my second of two ECN brokers and have yet to have a losing trade with them.

Since you're obviously an incompetent loser who's probably lost much more money that you've gained, let me make this perfectly clear for you:

You are nobody and are in no damn position to tell me how good of a trader I am and how effective my trade strategies are. STFU, get out of my face, and go blow yourself into debt.

And I just realized that it's ridiculous that I'm even explaining myself to an insignificant little loser like yourself. Make sure to notify me when you've blown all your money. I'll have a good laugh at your expense.


Quoting Pip Dawg
How's that for being smug?

eat dog droppings.
  • #4,695
  • Jan 17, 2010 1:57pm Jan 17, 2010 1:57pm
Quoting pa18
Guys, can I ask about the input of a manual stop loss order for dealing with MBT?

I have a long order, to set a manual stop loss, you can place a sell stop market or a sell stop limit to close out.

I have a short order, to set a manual stop loss, you can place a buy stop market or a buy stop limit to close out

Are these the correct orders to be using?

Also, I guessing it's not advisable to use stop limit orders as stop loss orders?
pa18,

Take a look at this: MBT Order Entry Guide

You'll want to either use TTO's or Buy/Sell Stop Market orders. I would advise not using Stop Limit orders as stop losses, since there is a possibility they won't be triggered.
  • #4,696
  • Jan 17, 2010 1:58pm Jan 17, 2010 1:58pm
Quoting M_j
I'm quite impressed.


I started just today reading through this thread ( currently page 48) but what jleblang does (at least until page 48 - hope I don't have to change my mind till the end ) is very recommendable for any company.

My respect.
Thank you
  • #4,697
  • Jan 17, 2010 5:31pm Jan 17, 2010 5:31pm
Quoting kibescorp
You're calling me a rookie? That's rich, coming from someone who is a classic example of all the tools out there who are losing money left and right because they're too incompetent to even be in the investment game.

I've been trading live for nearly a year now and have grown my account capital to 22x what it was when I started out in early '09. I make anywhere from 5-15 trades per week, so why don't you do the math and figure out how many times I've been around the block. I just recently took on MB Trading as my second of two ECN...
You know nothing about me.

Investing and trading are 2 different things. You should know that. When you say you make 99% profitable trades people that have been trading for a while don't believe you that's all. Spouting off about how great you are and how much you make doesn't impress anyone because it makes you sound fake...that's all.

By the way 99% wins doesn't mean squat if your loss exceeds your wins. In other words....if you only make $1 - 99 times and then lose $100 on your next trade you still have lost and have a losing system. So your percentage wins don't really matter as much as you think they do.

Instead of telling everyone how you get 99% winning trades, why don't you start talking about the method that gets you those wins.That way people will respect you and even believe you. If you have a great method then lets see it.

Have you ever heard the expression empty pots make the most noise?

Stop telling us how great you are and start showing us. Why don't you start a thread showing everyone your method? I will be your first subscriber.
  • #4,698
  • Jan 18, 2010 1:47am Jan 18, 2010 1:47am
Quoting jleblang
Hello Everyone,...
Justin: MB Trading is a complete joke, your demo servers are a complete waste of time for anyone who wants to test any EA that they have. You keep shutting down the demo servers for maintenance right in the middle of trading hours, and the only broker that does that. You might as well shut them down because I have never seen so many posts in all of the MT4 forums about people having problems running there EA on your demo.

It took you almost 2 years to get this MT4 ECN running on live accounts, or at least very close. And to think that it was all because Boston Technologies (which would have taken 2 weeks to set up) was to pricy for your pocket books.

You choose to not answer my posts which were negative towards MBT during the holidays, but that was expected because you only tend to answer the posts that you want to reply to.

I have had many error messages with MBT on my live account where I am running my EA, and I am getting error messages like "Common Error", No Trade Context", "No connection", and "Off Quotes". Then when I called MBT one day about a trade not closing at the TP, and I tried closing the trade manually, and was getting a "No Connection" message in the journal, I called them and they said that when the rollover happens(at 17:00 est) you cannot close or open any trades for at least 8 minutes and the platform is frozen. And sometime they do some maintenance on the server, which will mean that the server could be down for between 8 - 20 mins, unbelieble that you cant even close a trade for up to 20 mins, and MBT is the only broker to do this. It really doesnt matter what excuses you come up with regarding these error messages, you are a pathetic bunch of idiots. If you were a true ECN broker, a trader would not get any error messages like these or more specifically "Off Quotes".

But thats all fine and dandy, because Dukascopy will have there MT4 ready to trade live in 2 weeks, and they now have Mini and Micro lots available along with a $5000.00 account minimum. The account minimum has gone from $100k 2 yrs ago down to $50k, then $10k and now $5k, and NO PROBLEMS WITH THE NFA and or 10:1 leverage, see you later !!
  • #4,699
  • Jan 18, 2010 4:37am Jan 18, 2010 4:37am
Quoting jleblang
pa18,

Take a look at this: MBT Order Entry Guide

You'll want to either use TTO's or Buy/Sell Stop Market orders. I would advise not using Stop Limit orders as stop losses, since there is a possibility they won't be triggered.
Thanks for the help Justin, I've been using TTO orders but recently I had to cancel the TTO manually then close out my order manually, so now just double checking how to renter a stop loss position in navigator.
  • #4,700
  • Jan 18, 2010 4:43am Jan 18, 2010 4:43am
Quoting forexpipmaster
Justin:...
A bit harsh

MBT has been good to me, not too much to grumble about, good executions and fills and CS seems fair so far.

But I'm considering moving to Dukas only because I scalp, I live in China and I get charge the old commission rate! More of a possible move now since the recent NFA thing
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