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The System II (Yes with irony)

  • #12,581
  • Dec 13, 2009 4:46am Dec 13, 2009 4:46am
Quoting mac1956
I apologise for the length of this post - but for the sake of historical record I think it is important...so forgive me...if you know better correct me (Feb or Fx)....but some things have started to make sense about the current situation that need saying - not to rescue it, not to get anyone back, but just to cast some perspective over the whole history of this valuable archive. If you get bored just skip it. And if you think it has no place Feb...you only have to ask me and I will erase it. T


[font=Tahoma]I had a long conversation...
Amazing post as usual, brother....
Anything else to add?, of course not...

It makes even clearer for everyone, who could have doubted about, that the fight is not between them, if not between all of us and some trolls that try to take advantage from their two sound, but different ways to deal with the teaching stuff...

They are two different ways, but the results of both are here, "there are too many different ways to skin a cat", as Feb, always says, so there is no point to try to say if one is better than another....

Who is more important, the person who gives birth, and grews a wolderful baby to be given for the sake of loads of people, or the person who assures the baby keeps on grewing stronger, healthier, confindence and wiselier, meanwhile the first one is taking care of some other important stuff ???

It has a simple answer IMHO... There is no diference between.... so it only fits one feeling in my in head.....

GRATITUDE to both

A big THANK YOU big hearts, for everysingle word you sahre with us without having the obligation to,.....
This is called GENEROSITY on its higher meaning.....

  • #12,582
  • Dec 13, 2009 5:01am Dec 13, 2009 5:01am
MAC1956
......Outstanding & so very true. Well worth the time to read. Early on I followed this thread, but as time went on I saw the storm brewing & decided to move on & focus my energy on what I had learned from FEB in the beginning. Then one day I decided I just had to see what was happening with the thread & that is when I saw FX had step up to the plate in FEB absence. After reading several of FX's post it was apparent he was trying to carrying on for FEB & was doing a good job from what I read, but then I started seeing the attacks (as they so often do when one tries to help), so I moved on again.
I have never swaped ideas with FX, but he was offering help to those that was willing to learn. He was offering some TOUGH LOVE to those trying to learn & increase their account size. It is sad to see things turn out like they have. There is no doubt FEB & FX have different styles of training & guiding, but they both offer very valuable trading info that is really difficult to find on these forums. Two really great trading minds willing to share & guide on one forum is a rare commodity.
In closing I just want to thank FEB & FX for what I have learned from them, as it has help me to become a much better short term price action trader even though I have traded for many years.

___________________________________
  • #12,583
  • Dec 13, 2009 5:31am Dec 13, 2009 5:31am
Quoting coronajazz
This goes to everyone to think about. I would especially like to hear Feb`s opinion, and hopefully will intrigue FX to give his thougths as well.

We all know what is our job description right. Hunting for runners. In that quest we are ready to leave money on the table, playing #1 accordingly and looking to bank max on every semi fakeout we are awarded.
But there is one, and only one thing one our job description list that is even more important than catching runners. And that is PROTECTING OUR ACCOUNT EQUITY. At least for me, this goes first on...

Hello Corona,

Your are absolute correct that risk management is key to our success not to confuse that with an unwillingness on our part to accept loosing as part of trading. My only suggestion to you, based on your risk management approach and the fact that will you leave yourself open to miss "the runner" is to lower the load you trade so that you can stay in the action longer. The capitalization of your account will determine the load you can trade and remain "in the comfort zone" . You don't want to trade with "scared money" wrecking your plan to catch "the runner".
One of my biggest obstacles has been not accepting the fact that based on my equity atm, I can only trade micro units if I am going to trade comfortably and not scared. This has in the past created a dilemma with my goals to turn this into a significant source of income thus leading to frustration and falling into bad habits once in a while. So in my case I have come to understand that atm for me, is not about making$$$....is about developing the proper mental attitude and refining my discretion. If I focus on that...the $$$ will come as I build or add to my account.

Hope this helps..


Good luck

Unus pro omnibus, omnes pro uno
  • #12,584
  • Dec 13, 2009 6:29am Dec 13, 2009 6:29am
Quoting moneda
So in my case I have come to understand that atm for me, is not about making$$$....is about developing the proper mental attitude and refining my discretion. If I focus on that...the $$$ will come as I build or add to my account.
Hi there, you are spot on that developing the proper mental attitude is important in the journey to begin 'making $.'

I would highly suggest you read, buy, or watch something on Mark Douglas.
His book is "The Disciplined Trader" and I have included a link to a live recording Mark has done. It is hosted by woodiescci. Its worth a watch!

http://woodiescciclub.com/Lectures/m...glas/index.htm
  • #12,585
  • Dec 13, 2009 6:44am Dec 13, 2009 6:44am
Quoting moneda
Hello Corona,

Your are absolute correct that risk management is key to our success not to confuse that with an unwillingness on our part to accept loosing as part of trading. My only suggestion to you,...
I have to agree with my brother here -

Corona, you could lower your load per trade that way you'll be participating more in the market. As you migth know already, the forex market IS NOT a true 24 hr market - there's periods of consolidation etc -

The system II is more effective when volatility is high.....
Peace
  • #12,586
  • Dec 13, 2009 6:46am Dec 13, 2009 6:46am
Quoting mac1956
I apologise for the length of this post - but for the sake of historical record I think it is important...so forgive me...if you know better correct me (Feb or Fx)....but some things have started to make sense about the current situation that need saying - not to rescue it, not to get anyone back, but just to cast some perspective over the whole history of this valuable archive. If you get bored just skip it. And if you think it has no place Feb...you only have to ask me and I will erase it. T


[font=Tahoma]I had a long conversation...
solid post!!!
Peace
  • #12,587
  • Dec 13, 2009 6:55am Dec 13, 2009 6:55am
Thank you Moneda and Feb!

I kind of anticipated this kind of answers but my problem with lowering the load after few losing trades is that afterwards, when the runner comes, it will not wipe up my losers and get me into positive. I feel that is the whole idea behind catching a runner.

Couple of weeks ago I had a late friday runner which whiped out all my loses from the whole pretty shitty week I had before that.

I am not trying to confront. I am way behind you guys in experience and knowledge. Just my thoughts. I think the load should be the same during one trading period (day, week or whatever).
You wont survive without preserving!!!
  • #12,588
  • Dec 13, 2009 7:17am Dec 13, 2009 7:17am
Corona,,,I was thinking and I would like to tell U a lil story if you don't mind..

My uncle was a professional poker player. He traveled all over. He show me how me and dad how to play poker. He was very talented and he never had to count cards or any of that crap. He made a nice living and when he died he left a decent state to my cousins. Of course he invested in some other ventures like real estate etc.

one characteristic he show was a high level of comfort when playing. Simply put he always play with money he was comfortable to lose. I had the opportunity to watch him playing a couple of times in the VIP section. His secret was to bet on the law of probabilities. But he needed to stay in the game long enough to catch the good hand. Is not only risking x percent of capital or risking comfort money but to distribute this $$$ in a way that you can capitalize to the max every move you make.

The part people don't like about is is that there's not a golden rule. You need to play discretion. In my particular case all depends. Sometimes I don't use the same load on very trade. It all depends on the time of the month, what day of the week, etc....

Just for the record - I am not trying to say that trading is like gambling.......
Peace
  • #12,589
  • Dec 13, 2009 8:03am Dec 13, 2009 8:03am
Quoting feb2865
Corona,,,I was thinking and I would like to tell U a lil story if you don't mind..

My uncle was a professional poker player. He traveled all over. He show me how me and dad how to play poker. He was very talented and he never had to count cards or any of that crap. He made a nice living and when he died he left a decent state to my cousins. Of course he invested in some other ventures like real estate etc....
Oh Feb!
I just have one thing to say to this story and the bottomline (comfort level).

You have so much to share, and I have so much to learn!

Thank you!
You wont survive without preserving!!!
  • #12,590
  • Edited 10:37am Dec 13, 2009 8:38am | Edited 10:37am
Quoting feb2865
Corona,,,I was thinking and I would like to tell U a lil story if you don't mind..

My uncle was a professional poker player. He traveled all over. He show me how me and dad how to play poker. He was very talented and he never had to count cards or any of that crap. He made a nice living and when he died he left a decent state to my cousins. Of course he invested in some other ventures like real estate etc....

Feb and Corona,

I could not agree more with the above...as a poker player myself(online ) there is very little difference in how you apply the law of probabilities (long term).... pot odds vs. rr, etc. .....and just like in forex when a spike takes you out when least expected, you have the river card in poker! ... so in my opinion both can be a form of gambling if you don't apply what Feb and Fx have continually remind us of... would have loved to meet your uncle, perhaps not at the table!

Have a great Sunday
Unus pro omnibus, omnes pro uno
  • #12,591
  • Dec 13, 2009 11:31am Dec 13, 2009 11:31am
Quote
The part people don't like about is is that there's not a golden rule. You need to play discretion. In my particular case all depends. Sometimes I don't use the same load on very trade. It all depends on the time of the month, what day of the week, etc....

Fed do you use different size on particular day or days or do you use different size than usual on particular trade? Cos I think that changing size based on trade is very difficult - you do not know if the next trade will have more chances to win.
  • #12,592
  • Dec 13, 2009 12:29pm Dec 13, 2009 12:29pm
Quoting Yeti
Fed do you use different size on particular day or days or do you use different size than usual on particular trade? Cos I think that changing size based on trade is very difficult - you do not know if the next trade will have more chances to win.
changing load based on a trade - it's complicated yes...But is all based on equity.

All I can tell you that my first trade is normally....usually the most aggressive....my second trade could be as much as aggressive as my first one depending on my equity. But as I said, there's no golden rule.

Oanda provides an excellent tool - measuring units instead of lots. Have more control over the load that way. If I am trading futures, well the contract value is fixed so I use another form of calculation. But the spot gives you more flexibility.

Just that I keep my equity in front of me at all times....And a calculator.

My tools are 1) a calculator 2) a simple notebook for record keeping.

By record keeping is simply math calc based on equity...for instance "my bankroll is $1000 I put a trade, lost $10.00 = $1000-$10.00 = $990.00 and I keep track of my equity that way...no I don't have the time to write that on excel...I trade super-fast.

I don't base my trades on winners or losers rather on how much equity I have left.
Peace
  • #12,593
  • Dec 13, 2009 12:39pm Dec 13, 2009 12:39pm
I'm still reading this big thread (on page #327 now), but i can't understand the next thing:
For, example we have a swing (30-40 pips), then we have a pullback (no more then 50% of swing) and suddenly price doesn't breakout swing H/L (pattern 1-2-3 not finished). After that you start trading last FCR breakout (pullback H/L).

Question 1: why you consider that price will go another side? but not sideway? may be FCR breakout is only noise?

When we have a qualified swing - we get a high probability of continuation of price movement after pullback (price momentum exists), and what about FCR breakout? where is the "edge"? where is the momentum? (max 50% of 30-40 pips??)

Thanks for all!!!
  • #12,594
  • Dec 13, 2009 1:05pm Dec 13, 2009 1:05pm
Quote
All I can tell you that my first trade is normally....usually the most aggressive....

I think I got the point. Many thanks Feb.

PS.

I am happy you are in good condition.
  • #12,595
  • Dec 13, 2009 1:51pm Dec 13, 2009 1:51pm
Quoting nbvehrfr
I'm still reading this big thread (on page #327 now), but i can't understand the next thing:
For, example...

Nbvehrf,

First of all if you are on pg 327 then you know something that we don't know! bcz we are on pg. 315 atm...just kidding with you...anyway you question may be an indication of where you are on the thread nevertheless, I will give my perspective and let Feb and others add their own golden touch....first of all the 40-50 swing and the 50% pullback are just guidelines..a blueprint or road map shared by Feb to help us get on the right path..As you become more experienced..you will develop your own discretion....which will help you to be more flexible with your decisions.
Question #1 is another indication that you are still missing some information.... listen the fcr strategy is not predicting anything about price action it is another setup that we consider if price reverses and gives us a runner.. The key is in remembering the IF and WHEN mental attitude that you need as you are letting the market tell you instead of predicting its direction...So we don't really know what price will do..we are only taking shots at the reversals until we catch a runner...in order to do that you need to develop the proper risk management shared by Feb and FX and repeated many times throughout the thread. So..... please I urge you to continue your reading and try to not jump around which will lead to confusion...most likely all of your question have already been answered.

Keep on reading and stick around

Unus pro omnibus, omnes pro uno
  • #12,596
  • Dec 13, 2009 1:57pm Dec 13, 2009 1:57pm
Hi feb

Although i have not contributed to this thread yet, could i possibly join your seminar in january

thanks

Chris
  • #12,597
  • Dec 13, 2009 2:00pm Dec 13, 2009 2:00pm
Quoting fxcatty
Hi there, you are spot on that developing the proper mental attitude is important in the journey to begin 'making $.'

I would highly suggest you read, buy, or watch something on Mark Douglas.
His book is "The Disciplined Trader" and I have included a link to a live recording Mark has done. It is hosted by woodiescci. Its worth a watch!

http://woodiescciclub.com/Lectures/m...glas/index.htm
Fxcatty,

Thanks for the suggestion...I have read Mark Douglas "Trading in the Zone " and found it quite helpful.

Unus pro omnibus, omnes pro uno
  • #12,598
  • Edited 2:46pm Dec 13, 2009 2:10pm | Edited 2:46pm
Quoting nbvehrfr
I'm still reading this big thread (on page #327 now), but i can't understand the next thing:
For, example we have a swing (30-40 pips), then we have a pullback (no more then 50% of swing) and suddenly price doesn't breakout swing H/L (pattern 1-2-3 not finished). After that you start trading last FCR breakout (pullback H/L).

Question 1: why you consider that price will go another side? but not sideway? may be FCR breakout is only noise?

When we have a qualified swing - we get a high probability of continuation of price movement after pullback...
Further to Moneda's words of sage advice - an FCR can be seen as a mini 123 (i.e. less than the 30-40 pip swing with a pullback however big or small - FCR1 or FCR2) - the 3 appears somewhere - has to eventually - and that is where the line is drawn. We use one type for re-entry short and another for re-entry long - IF the conditions are right....but they are simple ideas that become very complicated a) if you don't understand them fully and b) if they occur within a bracket (when the "price is going sideways") c) if they occur a long way down or up a swing and d) you can't tell a short FCR from a long FCR e) if the market lacks liquidity and f) if you're under the influence of LSD - in which case the candles will form a row of naked dancing girls while you become an animal of your choice and your computer flows off your desk as liquid chocolate...excuse me, ahem...flashback...sorry officer... so you need to keep reading.

Secondly, every entry is a test not a committment. If it ain't gonna run we don't want to watch it hobbling around on a crutch with our money hanging out of its back pocket. We have a series of defences/exit strategies - #1 play, #2 play and a #2G+ exit strategy - all of which you have not yet reached in the thread. They help you maximise profits on a runner and minimise losses on a fakeout (a price reversal against you).

Look to understand these two sets of tools and you'll be able to answer your own question in a way that you will always remember. Explaining them here would overload you with information which the thread story will reveal piece by piece. YOu'll find them really pivotal to your understanding and profiting from this information further.

Good luck buddy Stick at it...you're getting there - and, er...go easy on the LSD.
$urvive, Pre$erve & RESPECT THE TEACHER
  • #12,599
  • Dec 13, 2009 2:47pm Dec 13, 2009 2:47pm
Thank you for your answers, may i cite our mentor:

- As we all know there's no way to predict what the market will do in the next second...we need to go with the high probability trade...after all we are "speculators"

- Also, as we don't know what the market is going to do next, I assume that if the market continues the swing AKA trend now, it's a high probable trade when the market breaks the last swing high and continues.

Anybody can explain why we need to trade last FCR breakout (after 1-2-3 setup failure)? Why it is 'high probability' trade? May be it is an example of overtrading?

IF and THEN rules are only your trade plan(method or smth else). They do not give you high probability.

P.S. there are 840 pages in this thread (if your setting 'Number of Posts to Show Per Page' is set to 'Use forum default')
  • #12,600
  • Dec 13, 2009 2:58pm Dec 13, 2009 2:58pm
Quoting nbvehrfr
Thank you for your answers, may i cite our mentor:

- As we all know there's no way to predict what the market will do in the next second...we need to go with the high probability trade...after all we are "speculators"

- Also, as we don't know what the market is going to do next, I assume that if the market continues the swing AKA trend now, it's a high probable trade when the market breaks the last swing high and continues.

Anybody can explain why we need to trade last FCR breakout (after 1-2-3 setup failure)? Why it is 'high...
So buddy, with respect - are you asking a question or trying to teach us something?
$urvive, Pre$erve & RESPECT THE TEACHER
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