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Forex Mentors - The Best Investment You Can Make?

  • #1,081
  • Dec 12, 2009 7:06am Dec 12, 2009 7:06am
Quoting coscorp
I'd like to preface by saying that it's always a pity to see someone leave the Factory - even if myself and Daytrading were on the opposite sides of the fence in this particular instance - and I fully agree with smjones (as well as with ak4x before him) , though I am one of those "guilty" of keeping this thread alive for so long - however - as hard as I tried I couldn't stop from expressing my feelings about what I was witnessing.

Having said that - Marsh - having read what you posted and given the issues you raise - particularly on morality...
coscorp i think marsh joined for the right reasons he wanted to learn a method of trading,and in fair play look into the mind of a successful trader as so the thread and the group would let you belive in the posts on jackos thread.but as a member you and i know it paints a different story...ive just made 130 pips how great is this earn while you learn service but no talk about the last 2 or 3 losses if you do take his trades. that is many of us do not we dont take the trades. lets see some live trading and see in real time if a mentor is worth having .talk is cheap we have,maybe seen too much on here be nice if we was all sitting in a bar have a drink and a debate and maybe we would be alot more civil getting back to the thread topic can anyone prove with some live trading that a mentor has been a help, jacko made his mark live trading can you support now with something not just word twisting and hot air.
student
  • #1,082
  • Dec 12, 2009 7:28am Dec 12, 2009 7:28am
Quoting coscorp
I'd like to preface by saying that it's always a pity to see someone leave the Factory - even if myself and Daytrading were on the opposite sides of the fence in this particular instance - and I fully agree with smjones (as well as with ak4x before him) , though I am one of those "guilty" of keeping this thread alive for so long - however - as hard as I tried I couldn't stop from expressing my feelings about what I was witnessing.

Having said that - Marsh - having read what you posted and given the issues you raise - particularly on morality...
Hi Coscorp,

I appreciate your first comments, and that is something we can agree on. I wish daytrrading would reconsider his decision. It is a shame and he will be missed.

As for your questions, here are my opinions:

1) I joined for several reasons. At the time I had been interested in trading for about a year, but still had not succeeded. I was frustrated, as we all get at times, and was looking for the next piece of information that would make me successful. I was begninning to think that there was no way anybody could make money over time in this market. Then I had a conversation with someone who used to be in Jacks group, and this member swore that Jacko was a big time successful trader and that if the forum even knew who he was no one would bother forking over 700$. I figured that he knew what he was talking about because he had seen what goes on behind the curtains of the private group. So I looked in to the service, meaning I read the free thread here and looked at his blog advertisement.

In retrospect I would agree with one of daytradings first posts (found it). The advertising is amateur, and there are a lot of the same red flags you see there as one would by googling "FREE forex system!". Ie claims of easy money, trading on from a laptop, large letters in bold, exclamations screaming at you. What makes Jacko different this is that (even though I have never met him), he is more real than some google link. People stick up for him, as did the member I spoke to, and he is allowed to promote his paid service on this trusted website. THAT is the difference. Whether Forex Factory formally supports him or not, this is a website where new traders come to learn, and I assumed that the moderators must have some proof of Jacko's success if they would let him gather members here. It appears I was wrong on this assumption.

So, anyway, for a moment I looked past the red flags and put up my money.

Once inside, I realized Jacko delivered exactly what he said he would. And truth be told it was disappointing. I learned that I did not really want JUST a signal and the occasional email answer that briefly answers questions I could answer myself. I wanted to have conversations with a real trader. I want to discuss system analysis, draw downs, market conditions, psychology, trade management, account management, brokers. I'm sorry, but I cannot imagine Jacko being able to talk about any of those. To me he seems very emotional, and seemingly very shallow in the subjects mentioned above. Every couple of days you get a signal, maybe some fundamental related statement, and that is about it. There is no more information found on the blog than on his thread here (I mean come on, the first few blog enteries are copy/pasted from what he wrote here at FF), and that was disappointing.

As far as the signals. The first handful that went out were all losers. This is not to discredit him (we all have to lose sometime), however I will say that his reasons for losing were once again amateur (emotions got in the way, etc). He has no trading plan to get in to the market whatsoever, just discretion and gut feeling telling him sporadically to buy or sell. You cannot teach that. The first successful trade came when a big move happened, and later I look on the blog and discover that he took the trade but was not able to get the signal out in time. Coincidentally this one trade made up for all the loses that I had suffered on my account. I was beginning to feel like my investment was losing its value.

I will say it was not a complete wast of money. I believe there is always something to be learned in just about every situation. I am no longer looking for others to fill in my trading inadequacies. I am looking for a mentor, but he or she will probably be nothing like Jacko, and I will never spend money to become part of another learners "group". Trading is too complicated to expect much for such an impersonal set up.

2) I am still a member because my membership has not yet expired. I still watch the signals and see how they went, but I gave up hoping that following his signals would bring back the money I spend to get them.



My expectations to succeed do not rely on others, and therefore I take full responsibility for my inability to succeed in the Forex market at this time. Digging around for others to deliver success on a plate is what a loser does, and I am not a loser.

I'd be happy to answer any more questoins about my experience or clear any matters up if need be. Just let me know.
All I ask for is a chance to prove that money cannot make me happy.
  • #1,083
  • Dec 12, 2009 8:30am Dec 12, 2009 8:30am
Quoting sebby2468

basic s&r, fib,mm, which is all trading is.

There you go, and that didn't cost one cent!


Mentoring isn't all about strategy, it's about conditioning a prospective trader and helping him to master the prerequisite skills necessary to trade consistently and profitably. It's a very personal and individual thing, everyone has a different personality and a perceptive and experienced mentor should be able to exploit his protege's strengths and compensate for their weaknesses. If a supposed mentor can't or won't discuss these subjects then he can't really be classified as a mentor.

Contrary to popular belief trading isn't difficult, it's a bit like riding a bike, once you know how it's a piece of cake.

As far as people boasting about trading 200 lots, it's not relevant in this context as far as I can see. For a seller to mention it at all probably means they're trying to impress a mark which obviously has to be viewed with suspicion. There are always bigger (and smaller) fish, performance is measured in percentages not dollars, even a novice should know that much!
  • #1,084
  • Edited 10:05am Dec 12, 2009 9:22am | Edited 10:05am
Quoting garrye
coscorp i think marsh joined for the right reasons he wanted to learn a method of trading,and in fair play look into the mind of a successful trader as so the thread and the group would let you belive in the posts on jackos thread.but as a member you and i know it paints a different story...ive just made 130 pips how great is this earn while you learn service but no talk about the last 2 or 3 losses if you do take his trades. that is many of us do not we...

I must admit sometime I have a hard time following your posts however I think I understood what you were trying to say - regarding marsh - you posted before him so I'll take what he wrote if I may, but on a general basis what you say would have been a viable reason. I believe I've stated more than once that Jacko does have losers as everyone and as you say many don't follow what he does verbatim as myself - again I believe I've stated that in the past as well - I like to make my own mistakes and reap my own rewards but everyone is different. To the mentor (definition of which is subject to many different views - all equally valid) being a help - again, yes I believe so, but it's not an easy task on either sides - to paraphrase you can lead a horse to water but not make it drink on the other hand if what the mentor is trying to teach you doesn't fit with who you are as a person (allow me the very general description) then no matter how willing you are to learn and listen you will not have the results you are looking for.

It always comes down to each individuals' needs, expectations and...who he/she is.

Trading in itself isn't difficult - everything that revolves around it pertaining to human nature is what makes things hard.


Incidentally - I am willfully ignoring your last remarks regarding word twisting and hot air as english may not be your first language and they have been a slip.
Nihil inimicus quam sibi ipse Marcus Tullius Cicero
  • #1,085
  • Dec 12, 2009 9:32am Dec 12, 2009 9:32am
Thank you for your replies - it's unfortunate you did not receive as much as you expected from being part of jacko's private group but as stated many times on this forum we are all different and what may work for one may not work for the other. If you search my posts you will see I have always recommended 4 different threads on this site Jacko, J16, Strat and BRV as I have found these 4 to hold - each in its own form - something which I made my own to create a trading method I was comfortable with. I have never purported that jacko was "the" solution for those looking for a methodology however I have found it to have merit and have been able to successfully integrate it into one suited to my needs.

Regarding your assumptions my experience has been different and I think it will be sufficient to leave it at that

To each his own

Cheers


Quoting Marsh
Hi Coscorp,

I appreciate your first comments, and that is something we can agree on. I wish daytrrading would reconsider his decision. It is a shame and he will be missed.

As for your questions, here are my opinions:

1)...
Nihil inimicus quam sibi ipse Marcus Tullius Cicero
  • #1,086
  • Dec 12, 2009 10:42am Dec 12, 2009 10:42am
Quoting coscorp
Trading in itself isn't difficult - everything that revolves around it pertaining to human nature is what makes things hard.
I guess you're talking about psychology? Any decent mentor will be able to help overcome those hurdles by tailoring their approach according to the person they're mentoring.

I think what you purchased for your $700 is a cross between a signal service and a trading strategy, neither are the answer to consistent profitability as I imagine 90% of subscribers would testify if they were being honest! It's very easy to claim success but not so easy to prove it, as this thread clearly demonstrates.
  • #1,087
  • Dec 12, 2009 12:43pm Dec 12, 2009 12:43pm
Without wanting to take a side or make an opinion, this serves as a reminder not to take things for granted in the markets, as there is no sure certainty.

Good trading to everyone.
  • #1,088
  • Dec 12, 2009 12:53pm Dec 12, 2009 12:53pm
No, not only the psychology of the person per se in that given moment - but also the other factors which revolve around us each day - peer pressure, family, work (if present) and the list can go on imo. Certainly, in the end they can all be tied in to psychology in some manner as each will have it's influence on one's behaviour, expectations and whatnot but I like to try to break them down into their own separate group. Helps focus better on what may or may not have been the cause of a particular decision/trade - good or bad.

again - just my .02



Quoting pipmutt
I guess you're talking about psychology? Any decent mentor will be able to help overcome those hurdles by tailoring their approach according to the person they're mentoring.

I think what you purchased for your $700 is a cross between a signal service and a trading strategy, neither are the answer to consistent profitability as I imagine 90% of subscribers would testify if they were being honest! It's very easy to claim success but not so easy to prove it, as this thread clearly demonstrates.
Nihil inimicus quam sibi ipse Marcus Tullius Cicero
  • #1,089
  • Dec 12, 2009 2:04pm Dec 12, 2009 2:04pm
I have an honest question for you.
Before you joined had you already decided that you wanted to be trend trader?



Quoting Marsh
I'd be happy to answer any more questoins about my experience or clear any matters up if need be. Just let me know.
Don't wish it were easier, wish you were better. ~ Jim Rohn
  • #1,090
  • Edited 2:23pm Dec 12, 2009 2:04pm | Edited 2:23pm
Quoting Twee
Hi Folks. We feel it's time to say something about this thread. Many of you might feel we are late.

Better Twee be late than Twee be not at all...

In light of Twee’s post, I want to clear the air on a couple points and then be forever done with the matter as it pertains to this thread.

Regarding the whole Commercial Section which I have followed since Day One, I remain a bit skeptical as the first of my previous 6 posts here reflect. The latest ‘clarifications’ from Admin seem to make things murkier than ever… I believe smjones summed it up best ((as usual)) and I’ll simply ditto his remarks and leave it at that, while remaining...
Quoting ak4x
Willing and Waiting to be convinced... and hoping Admin finds the right mix of things that make it work.

Moving on... I'm not a subscriber to Jacko’s group nor do I have any interest personal or otherwise in what happens there. I will state again tho that I do respect him as a long time supporter and valuable contributor to FF. I have always tried to maintain a distinction between Jacko's postings and any of the folks who either subscribe to his site, or have profited from his postings here at FF as I have at times. That same principle can easily be applied to other high profile members who have some sort of ‘system’ or method associated with them.

I fully realize some folks can and do get carried away with what was earlier ((and accurately)) described by daytrading as a 'euphoria' and post things that might cause more seasoned traders to cringe ((possibly including Jacko himself in this case)). However, I really don't believe the OP here ((and a relatively new FF member at that)) had any nefarious intentions in starting the thread or that he was initially attempting to do anything other than open discussion on the subject of the Thread Title and express his own sentiment based out of his experiences which happened to be with Jacko's group.

I can also see where it could have been taken as "promotional", but considering the source (first thread by a newer member), the direction the thread quickly took (predictable)... it never crossed my radar until much later... just more yada yada; similar threads already Binned and I should care why?

That's something we all have to decide how we're going to react to when it happens... and it will. As I referred to earlier, my first 4 posts here pretty much represent that and I stand by them. The problem started when my 5th post strayed beyond the "issues" of this thread, however mangled they had become, and crossed over into personal confrontation with daytrader.

How and Why that happened is not so important. That it did is.

All that said, my Point here is to say that once I pulled MY head out of my OWN a$$, I took the time to read some of the post history that daytrading had established before his participation on this Mentor thread ever took place.

Needless to say, it only took a few minutes before I was fairly chagrined to learn that I had engaged my Mouth before putting my Brain in gear. Granted, I don't do that as often as I used to, but when I do it can be Epic...

Daytrading, whether you ever read this or not, I wish to apologize to you here and now and say that whatever other differences we may have about the issues raised here, I was grievously out of line in posting the things I did regarding you. I’ve requested my offensive "rant" be deleted and Twee has complied . At times like this, I wish there was a Place Beyond the Bin for certain posts to go...

Clearly you are a profoundly knowledgeable trader altho (personally) I am still unclear why you chose to stay so engaged with this so-called Mentor Thread debacle when your time and skills could clearly be utilized far more profitably in other endeavors. At least that's how I see it...

Still, your 'parting post' made it very clear that this was important to you, and as others have also posted, there seems to be a consensus that the moderators have left the door open for the time being for this thread to continue, altho I don't know why any different results would be expected or forthcoming under the current circumstances.

Either way, I do want to state in no uncertain terms that if you do decide to end your participation here at FF, that will be a net Loss to the FF Community, and I would only ask you to reconsider that course. FF has always been roomy enough in the past for traders of your caliber and I trust it will remain so in the Future.

I genuinely but belatedly regret our paths first crossed under the circumstances they did. That is my loss. I apologize to both you and the room for my negative contributions. It would be my Hope that if you do decide to continue participating at FF, I’d have a chance to sit quietly in the corner and learn a few things…
FUBAR...
  • #1,091
  • Dec 12, 2009 2:33pm Dec 12, 2009 2:33pm
Quoting ak4x
I genuinely but belatedly regret our paths first crossed under the circumstances they did.
It took some real cojones to post that. Hard to think my respect for you could go any higher but it just did by several notches. If daytrading never posts here again I hope at the very least he comes back to read this.
  • #1,092
  • Dec 12, 2009 5:50pm Dec 12, 2009 5:50pm
Inserted Video
  • #1,093
  • Dec 12, 2009 9:14pm Dec 12, 2009 9:14pm
Quoting ak4x
Either way, I do want to state in no uncertain terms that if you do decide to end your participation here at FF, that will be a net Loss to the FF Community, and I would only ask you to reconsider that course. FF has always been roomy enough in the past for traders of your caliber and I trust it will remain so in the Future.

[color=black][font=Verdana]I genuinely but belatedly regret our paths first crossed under the circumstances they did. That is my loss. I apologize to both you and the room for my...
Nice post, I now feel bad for thinking you were a miserable pratt.
  • #1,094
  • Dec 12, 2009 9:39pm Dec 12, 2009 9:39pm
Quoting coscorp
I must admit sometime I have a hard time following your posts however I think I understood what you were trying to say - regarding marsh - you posted before him so I'll take what he wrote if I may, but on a general basis what you say would have been a viable reason. I believe I've stated more than once that Jacko does have losers as everyone and as you say many don't follow what he does verbatim as myself - again I believe I've stated that in the past as well - I like to make my own mistakes and reap my own rewards but everyone is different. To...
coscorp the first line was for you,the last remarks are for fxtrader29,trading not hard english is lol
student
  • #1,095
  • Dec 13, 2009 12:28am Dec 13, 2009 12:28am
Its my first post, I've had the baddest headache ever.. just following this thread
So I guess its time for things to go back to where it belongs.. and that all the senior members and traders would advice newbies and newer traders of the value of mentors.. whether having a mentor who is trusted,reliable,proven profitable and have his own methods and successful trading system(s) is a big help or instead one would pretty much read a good book demo trade and get some sleep.. Instead of going through hard times like I did trying to dig through posts from last summer to find a good piece of advice in here..

Good trading to you all.. and enjoy your weekends
  • #1,096
  • Dec 13, 2009 5:20am Dec 13, 2009 5:20am
Quoting ak4x
....
Daytrading...
if you do decide to end your participation here at FF, that will be a net Loss to the FF Community, and I would only ask you to reconsider that course
.........
i agree.


daytrading, do reconsider Sir.
  • #1,097
  • Dec 13, 2009 6:22am Dec 13, 2009 6:22am
Just when I thought I was out, ..... they pulled me back in ! (form the Godfather trilogy)

To my surprise, I have received a number of PM's regarding my leaving FF, and while responding I have also read on in here to find that the discussion has turned out far more civil without me participating.

I don't bear grudges, so to everyone who was (is) involved in the current debate, consider the slate clean.

Regarding the thread itself: it seems that it has evolved into a more positive one - looking at both sides of the argument plus coming back to discuss the original question on a neutral basis.

Having made my personal views more than clear (I believe), there is no need for further contributions from my side. I will stay a member, although rather to occasionally make contributions on the front page sections, should I have an opinion/comment on any of the subjects.

Thank you guys.

regards
daytrding
Enter Signature
  • #1,098
  • Dec 13, 2009 6:38am Dec 13, 2009 6:38am
Quoting daytrading
Just when I thought I was out, ..... they pulled me back in ! (form the Godfather trilogy)
"You can check in any time you like
But you can never leave...."

  • #1,099
  • Dec 13, 2009 6:57am Dec 13, 2009 6:57am
Quoting daytrading
Just when I thought I was out, ..... they pulled me back in ! (form the Godfather trilogy)

To my surprise, I have received a number of PM's regarding my leaving FF, and while responding I have also read on in here to find that the discussion has turned out far more civil without me participating.

I don't bear grudges, so to everyone who was (is) involved in the current debate, consider the slate clean.

Regarding the thread itself: it seems that it has evolved into a more positive one - looking at both sides of the argument plus coming back...
good man daytrading
student
  • #1,100
  • Dec 13, 2009 7:15am Dec 13, 2009 7:15am
Quoting LasVahGoose
I have an honest question for you.
Before you joined had you already decided that you wanted to be trend trader?
No, not really. I just want to make money. I have heard that trading must fit your personality so many times I could just about vomit, but at this point it really makes no difference to me. If I can develop a trend based system that is profitable, then I can develop the discipline to follow that method. The same would go for a ranged based system, or stop hunting system, or scalping system, or anything of the sort. I know many would disagree with me on this, but I think honestly those that would disagree probably are not profiting themselves in the markets. A system is a system, and if you cannot handle the periods of drawdowns that a trend based system usually suffers, the you most likely wont be able to handle a string of losses that a high hit rate system will inevitably incur.

The bottom line is you either trust your system or you don't.

In my situation, I ran out of reasons to trust Jacko's system. As daytrading has repeatedly pointed out, claims of trades and profits are by no means proof of them. Moreso, the only way anyone is going to develop the discretion needed to trade his methods is on a one-to-one basis. Trading is too difficult for anyone to just read a blog and trade some signals and start making money like he says he does. The odds of that are incredibly small, and he does not provide the sufficient tools.

These are only my opinions of course, and as an unsuccessful trader they are subject to change I'm sure. Thanks for the honest question.

Marsh

(PS Glad you reconsidered your decision, daytrading!)
All I ask for is a chance to prove that money cannot make me happy.
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