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  • #1,061
  • Dec 10, 2009 7:16pm Dec 10, 2009 7:16pm
daytrading,

As you know, I don't think you've posted anything of merit in this thread. However, in post #1004 you said,

Quote
I also believe that the fund some people speak of has never issued or sent out a real independently audited statement, nor can any public company records be obtained. The address unconfirmed.

I am not even going into the claims about the funds profitability and the mismatching numbers that come with it (yet).

If you could bring some strong evidence showing questionable behavior on these issues then that would be of real interest and jacko's largely happy customer base would take you a lot more seriously. You (and pipmutt) have claimed only the most noble of motives, concern for the community. Consequently, if you had it I believe that you would post it, especially since Twee has given his blessing for the discussion to continure. This is the same standard by which you are judging jacko, and in my opinion, your case is by far the more appropriate.

Don't let your recent leave taking stop you from saving us! It certainly didn't stop you before.
  • #1,062
  • Dec 10, 2009 7:45pm Dec 10, 2009 7:45pm
Quoting LasVahGoose
DT wanted to get Jacko banned...
Dont you get it? This was not about "getting someone banned." This was about determing the validity of a business. What is so hard to understand about this?

Is there any proof that Jacko himself is successful? If not, then the only options are to join his group blindly or demand proof before joining. Neither Jacko nor any of his group (I am one of them) can provide this proof, therefore we all have joined blindly. I can admit that, can you?

Now the question is should a business in this environment be able to conduct itself in such a manner? This is a moral issue, and if we can at least get on this same page then perhaps there is hope. But to my knowledge none of the turtles can vouch for Jacko himself, stating that they have seen actual proof of trades, or proof that Jacko receives the majority of his income from trading the forex market rather than from the 700$ of his members. Unless proven otherwise, these are FACTS.

Please can I have some inteligent replies to this?
All I ask for is a chance to prove that money cannot make me happy.
  • #1,063
  • Dec 10, 2009 8:15pm Dec 10, 2009 8:15pm
Quoting Marsh
Dont you get it? This was not about "getting someone banned." This was about determing the validity of a business. What is so hard to understand about this?

Is there any proof that Jacko himself is successful? If not, then the only options are to join his group blindly or demand proof before joining. Neither Jacko nor any of his group (I am one of them) can provide this proof, therefore we all have joined blindly. I can admit that, can you?

Now the question is should a business in this environment be able to conduct itself in such a manner?...
Intelligent replies left the thread a long time ago. It seems as though nobody can see through their own rose colored glasses and are either too attached to their own beliefs or they are not bright enough to to actually understand what is being asked here.
  • #1,064
  • Dec 10, 2009 8:16pm Dec 10, 2009 8:16pm
Quoting Marsh
Dont you get it? This was not about "getting someone banned." This was about determing the validity of a business. What is so hard to understand about this?

Is there any proof that Jacko himself is successful? If not, then the only options are to join his group blindly or demand proof before joining. Neither Jacko nor any of his group (I am one of them) can provide this proof, therefore we all have joined blindly. I can admit that, can you?

Now the question is should a business in this environment be able to conduct itself in such a manner?...
Looks like you feel you wasted 700 bucks. Better you than me............
  • #1,065
  • Dec 10, 2009 8:20pm Dec 10, 2009 8:20pm
Quoting LasVahGoose
DT wanted to get Jacko banned, since that isn't going to happen he's leaving.
That is the way I read it, anyways.

I'm sure he'll be back. Nobody leaves the Factory. Mauahahah.
Wow I wanna read what you are reading, this has never been about getting someone banned, its about getting them to put up or shut up. If you are going to promote a service like Jackos you had better be prepared to back up your claims or shut the hell up.
  • #1,066
  • Dec 10, 2009 9:01pm Dec 10, 2009 9:01pm
Quoting Marsh
Dont you get it? This was not about "getting someone banned." This was about determing the validity of a business. What is so hard to understand about this?
Let me spell it out for you.

If A=B and B=C then A=C.

Forex Factory = ban signal services
Jacko = signal service (according to DT)
Forex Factory = ban Jacko.

Quoting daytrading
If the above is true, his SMS text messages are merely a signal service and as such are banned from the commercial part of the forum.
Quoting daytrading
Fact is this: according to the moderators, signal services are banned from participating in the commercial forum (It can be read in the opening posts of the commercial thread).

The followers replied that it does not really matter if it helps their trading. That maybe so, but without any proof that the trades are taken in reality (with verifiable evidence), this would constitute a violation of the rule which states that 'signal services' are banned.

Quoting daytrading
If signals are sent out by SMS (for a fee) and there is no proof that the sender does take the trades as claimed (in number and size), then is plain and simple a 'signal service'.

I have written a related complaint to the moderators which has been ignored as well communicated with other long standing members who were in agreement about the matter. It seems that FF is not interested to get to the bottom of this.
Don't wish it were easier, wish you were better. ~ Jim Rohn
  • #1,067
  • Dec 10, 2009 9:02pm Dec 10, 2009 9:02pm
Quoting endroute
Wow I wanna read what you are reading, this has never been about getting someone banned, its about getting them to put up or shut up. If you are going to promote a service like Jackos you had better be prepared to back up your claims or shut the hell up.
Read this post. http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...postcount=1067
Don't wish it were easier, wish you were better. ~ Jim Rohn
  • #1,068
  • Dec 11, 2009 12:02am Dec 11, 2009 12:02am
Quoting billflet
That's how I read it.
Me too, mind you maybe DT took exception to Twee calling it 'abuse'. I don't think either of us have abused WJ, in fact if anything it's been the other way round from Jacko and some of his supporters!

I thought this quote was interesting as some supporters argued that Jacko must be legit otherwise FF wouldn't have him as a partner, "Regarding Forex Factory's affiliation with products and services in the Commercial Forum, it has been alluded to that Forex Factory is a partner of some of these products and services. This is not true."

I think FF's stance is fair, they seem happy to let it play out as long as it remains civil.

DT I think you may have misinterpreted the sentiment in Twee's post, he's pretty much giving you carte blanche to continue your exposé. Personally I think there's already more than enough here for even the most naiive to be able to make a decision, or at least be encouraged not to take things on face value and to exercise caution, so you may not even want to bother.

I've said this before in the thread, I have nothing against Jacko personally as I don't even know the guy, but vendors should expect to be grilled, in fact some even welcome it as it gives them an opportunity to answer the critics and skeptics. If the seller has a product he's confident in and is worth buying he should be able to take the heat, no matter how tough or confrontational the questions get!
  • #1,069
  • Dec 11, 2009 12:35am Dec 11, 2009 12:35am
Quoting Twee
Hi Folks. We feel it's time to say something about this thread. Many of you might feel we are late.

Regarding the calls to send this thread to the Recycle Bin, the reason we haven’t done so is because we feel that although the debate has it’s nasty times, it’s also thought provoking, insightful, and relevant to trading. This kind of debate couldn't have happened if not for the new Commercial Forum so we are trying...
Too little, too late and a weak justification for doing so imho (what's the point of having rules if you don't enforce them... ?). A sad day for FF...

... but it's easy to be wise with hindsight - we certainly know that as traders.

dt - as much as I disgaree with your approach on this thread, I value your contributions to FF as a trader. In any event, FF is a bit like Hotel California when it comes to leaving, so I very much hope to see you again...
  • #1,070
  • Dec 11, 2009 12:49am Dec 11, 2009 12:49am
Quoting LasVahGoose
Let me spell it out for you.

If A=B and B=C then A=C.
I think you mean:

if (A==B && B==C) A=C;

  • #1,071
  • Dec 11, 2009 12:49am Dec 11, 2009 12:49am
Quoting hanover
I think you mean:

if (A==B && B==C) A=C;

Hey, I try.
Don't wish it were easier, wish you were better. ~ Jim Rohn
  • #1,072
  • Dec 11, 2009 3:02am Dec 11, 2009 3:02am
Quoting daytrading
Well folks, that's it.
.......
regards
daytrading
What ??

daytrading, you've always been a respected member here. I remember seeing a lot of you back at the old site / forum. Back when we had bolt and Joe Fontana running the show. That was several years ago.

Sorry to see the screamers get to you.

Man, it really sucks to see some of the best contributors disappear.
  • #1,073
  • Edited 7:56am Dec 11, 2009 7:00am | Edited 7:56am
I have been following this thread since it took the turn from the author's original post. I felt that Daytrader made some very valid points in the early stages of the thread. These were responded to by Jacko and his supporters in a reasonable way in the early part of the thread.

Where I differ from Twee's take on this thread is the delivery of it. I felt and still do, that once the points of each of the participants where laid out clearly, (as Daytrader did. and as Jacko did in the early stages of the thread) that was the cogent meat of the thread. Almost everything else from that point has been just a continued re-hash of those points and inflamed responses. Really nothing new or even remotely interesting has been added since those original points, (in point and counter point) were made. I suppose this is how freedom of discussion evolves, however there must have been a fundamental shift at Forex Factory from the point of view that was once held. In years past when the points where made and the positions clearly laid out, that was the end of the free speach. It was clearly and repeatedly explained that Forex Factory was a privately held forum with the ability for public view and comment and there was no requirement of Free Speech. Now that Twee's statement clearly sets the ground rules that a fight as he put it can continue, I see no point in this approach.

Again, I will emphasize; nothing new has been added to this thread since the cogent points were made. This would have been where the thread should have stopped and the thread should have been closed to further comment and remained in the discussion or commercial section. This is how I see this and I feel this is what made Forex Factory so unique and special against the sea of Forums like the old Money Tec. It would have given both sides opportunity to voice their different views and also maintained order.

Regards Scott
  • #1,074
  • Dec 11, 2009 7:07am Dec 11, 2009 7:07am
Quoting LasVahGoose
Let me spell it out for you.

If A=B and B=C then A=C.

Forex Factory = ban signal services
Jacko = signal service (according to DT)
Forex Factory = ban Jacko.

Well of course the above statement is true, but as written Jacko will ONLY be banned if he is found to be a signal service. If he is not, then a full apology would be in order for anyone who accused him of it. Hence the reason that his is not about banning someone, but finding validity. I think the approach between the two is much different. If it were about banning a person, the approach would be far more personal. If it is about business conduct, then the business itself would be in question.

As it stands, there has been more research and case building on daytradings side of the debate than there have been against him. Insulting his writing style or calling him a troll when he dug through posts and pieced together some interesting points makes a fool of the author which insults him, and has zero value of contribution whatsoever to a worthwhile debate.

See look what his has turned into yet again, an argument about HOW a debate is being carried out?? What a waste of time. Now, if you would be so kind (or anyone) to reply to the rest of my previous post instead. I believe you will find plenty of A=B logic to work with if you read it.

Quoting Marsh
Is there any proof that Jacko himself is successful? If not, then the only options are to join his group blindly or demand proof before joining. Neither Jacko nor any of his group (I am one of them) can provide this proof, therefore we all have joined blindly. I can admit that, can you?

Now the question is should a business in this environment be able to conduct itself in such a manner? This is a moral issue, and if we can at least get on this same page then perhaps there is hope. But to my knowledge none of the turtles can vouch for Jacko himself,...
All I ask for is a chance to prove that money cannot make me happy.
  • #1,075
  • Dec 11, 2009 7:42am Dec 11, 2009 7:42am
Quoting Twee

Regarding the abuse that Pipmutt/Daytrading are laying on Jacko, we don’t feel it’s our place to do something about it.
It has been a lot more than abuse. The obvious lies and then innuendo are slander and libel (Libel is the publication of defamatory matter in permanent form, while slander is the publication of defamatory matter in non-permanent form. Something defamatory that is printed in a newspaper or book is libel, but the same thing, if spoken, is slander). Forex Factory has allowed the free abuse by Daytrading and Pipmutt to put Forex Factory in a dangerous position.


Quote
If there is slander that we’ve missed please Cleanup Report the specific post.
The ongoing publication of the lies in this thread has already exposed Forex Factory to slander and libel. That will not go away.


Quote
This debate has not been one sided. Jacko’s supporters far outnumber his dissenters and therefore we don’t view this as an attack on Jacko, but rather as an all-guns fight that should be expected from anyone who charges a fee to traders.
Jacko's supporters can see all his trades and his trading history. We have come here again and again to say that he is a profitable trader. His mentoring has been valuable to us.
The dissenters are making unfounded allegations to boost their own egos. They can't believe that another trader can be so much better than them.

Quote
Jacko has garnered wide-spread support and displayed rare staying power – this is a strong testament to his value as a mentor and stands on it’s own.



The reason more of us have not come here and argued with Daytrading and Pipmutt is because Jacko has asked us not to continue to the stupid arguing because it it a distraction to our trading and it reduces Forex factory to the lowest levels of other forex forums.
  • #1,076
  • Dec 11, 2009 10:29am Dec 11, 2009 10:29am
Quoting smjones
I have been following this thread since it took the turn from the author's original post....
No one more qualified to comment than a former mod. In the old days, the mods would have nudged the ball back onto the court a few times, then kicked it into the bin.

Scott, I dropped you a PM on that old guy from Glasgow's site. You can answer it there if you'd like.

Bill
  • #1,077
  • Dec 11, 2009 10:41am Dec 11, 2009 10:41am
I have a different perspective on the matter since I've been in this thread since post #26 and have read every post.

We just see it differently, might as well leave it there.


Quoting Marsh
Well of course the above statement is true, but as written Jacko will ONLY be banned if he is found to be a signal service....
Don't wish it were easier, wish you were better. ~ Jim Rohn
  • #1,078
  • Dec 11, 2009 3:41pm Dec 11, 2009 3:41pm
From what I've read you get an sms with details of the trade,what more evidence do you want that this is a signal service,if the guys are making some money then good luck to them,if they aren't then at least they are learning how to use basic s&r, fib,mm, which is all trading is.
But do i believe his claims,not in a million years,theres more chance of me waking up next to claudia schiffer than there is of him trading 200 lots a pop,which is what DT had issues with.Total horseshit and if his punters believe that they deserve to be ripped off.
  • #1,079
  • Edited 5:59pm Dec 11, 2009 4:46pm | Edited 5:59pm
Why not 200 lots?

Not everybody is trading 100$ accounts, a capital of 1 to 5 million $ to work with for a medium size biz is no big deal and very common.

I've seen some folks on a poker table risking much more than 200 lots and if they lost they've been back next day to start a new game.

BTW: I don't claim to trade these sizes, my account allowes only 1 to 2 lots per scalp trade with a proper MM.

Quoting sebby2468
But do i believe his claims,not in a million years,theres more chance of me waking up next to claudia schiffer than there is of him trading 200 lots a pop,which is what DT had issues with.Total horseshit and if his punters believe that they deserve to be ripped off.
  • #1,080
  • Edited 2:42am Dec 12, 2009 1:57am | Edited 2:42am
I'd like to preface by saying that it's always a pity to see someone leave the Factory - even if myself and Daytrading were on the opposite sides of the fence in this particular instance - and I fully agree with smjones (as well as with ak4x before him) , though I am one of those "guilty" of keeping this thread alive for so long - however - as hard as I tried I couldn't stop from expressing my feelings about what I was witnessing.

Having said that - Marsh - having read what you posted and given the issues you raise - particularly on morality and ethics et al - if I may, I'd like to ask you:

1) Why did you even bother joining Jacko's private group

2) Why are you still a member (as from what you write that seems to be the case)...?

Just curious.


Cheers

Quoting Marsh
Well of course the above statement is true, but as written Jacko will ONLY be banned if he is found to be a signal service....
Nihil inimicus quam sibi ipse Marcus Tullius Cicero
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