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Strat's Long Term Stress Free Trading

  • #8,341
  • Dec 9, 2009 11:38am Dec 9, 2009 11:38am
Well, with Christmas and New Year's just around the corner I'm probably gonna lay off the trading for the rest of the month. During this time I plan to do a little work on my MM.

I'm guessing that MM is a personal thing with different people preferring different methods and I'm pretty sure my method SUX! So, I thought I might share what I've been doing with everyone so that I might get abused, laughed at, humiliated, and more likely than not, sent right back to the Golden Gates of the Path entrance again (I'm the one who carved, "Marto was here" in the gate frame). But, since my wife has spent the last 20 years draining most the pride from my soul anyway, I think I can handle the abuse, as long as I can just get a better understanding of MM!

It's overly-cautious (which I'm guessing is my main problem) but I've developed this with preservation of capital as my foundation. It goes something like this:

HYPOTHETICAL.....Ok, let's say I go long at X price. My TP is X+150 (next resistance) and my SL is at X-185 (hiding underneath a good support level). Now, what I've been doing is closing half the postion at +50, moving my SL to BE for the reamining half of the position and initiating a 75 pip trailing stop while keeping my TP fixed.

That's about it. My plan would later change the trailing stop to a manual stop that I would widen over the 75 pips to give the trade more room if I was on a good trade.

Now, this has been working great as far as keeping me profitable, BUT, vary rarely do I ever reach my TP.

I know this it probably too "safe" but I'm not real sure how far too push it before I go from too safe to too risky. Does this make sense?

I have always struggled with MM and I keep thinking I'll find my "comfort setting" but so far I have not. The reason this is so important to me right now is because I have had 3 profitable months in a row using Strat's method (and already in plus territory for Dec!) and I would hate to know I was finally trading well but screwing it up with poor MM.

I'm not asking for anyone's full-blown MM system, I could just use a few ideas to get me on track.

One more thing. This thread is getting HUGE, so if I get sent all the way back to the beginning I would sure appreciate a ride if anyone else is going that way...........

GL,
Marto
  • #8,342
  • Dec 9, 2009 12:37pm Dec 9, 2009 12:37pm
Quoting TTMarto
Well, with Christmas and New Year's just around the corner I'm probably gonna lay off the trading for the rest of the month. During this time I plan to do a little work on my MM.

I'm guessing that MM is a personal thing with different people preferring different methods and I'm pretty sure my method SUX! So, I thought I might share what I've been doing with everyone so that I might get abused, laughed at, humiliated, and more likely than not, sent right back to the Golden Gates of the Path entrance again (I'm the one who carved,...
Marto, first of all Congratulations on your 3 months + profitability.

I'm guessing that MM is a personal thing

It’s not only personal but means different things to different traders.

As I have said before, I have a totally different view on MM than what I’m supposed to have (if you read all the MM books and those by those “traders” who can’t do it so they write about it).

Rather than sound off about theirs, I’ll just repeat again what my MGM is.

My MGM is only about initiating, adding and compounding trades so that I reach my target (whatever it is) in this life and not the next.

The text books have you believe that compounding your account at x % will make you rich over y number of years. And so it will if you can consistently achieve x % on each and every trade. I don’t know of any traders, living or dead, that achieves or achieved a consistent x % on each and every trade.

My MGM has nothing to do with SL or account %

My SL is there for capital preservation NOT for MGM.

It's overly-cautious (which I'm guessing is my main problem) but I've developed this with preservation of capital as my foundation.

Don’t think of this as a problem – it is a damn good attribute. It is far better to start out over-cautious than being trade happy as your 3 month’s of profitability shows.

You should reach a point where your confidence in YOU and your METHOD will allow you to increase your RISK.

Now, what I've been doing is closing half the position at +50, moving my SL to BE for the remaining half of the position and initiating a 75 pip trailing stop while keeping my TP fixed.

As far as I am concerned, this is short time frame mentality. Because the short time frame traders are living on the “edge” and don’t know where or how far PRICE is going, they TP at 10 pips or whatever number floats their boat. In long term trading, we have a good idea where and how far PRICE is going and will ride the train as long as it keeps chugging along.

I really don’t understand a TP at + 50 on a 1750 pip move – why do YOU decide what PRICE will do? Why not let the market decide what PRICE will do and let her take you out when she is finished?

I have tried most of the strategies in Spinner’s attachment and while they all work, they don’t fit my personality or style.

I look to get in on a trend, stay in the trend and add to that trend. As such, my SL trails above/below swings (or SR) with total disregard for BE or TP.

Many times I get stopped out for a loss (after being in profit) – something you should never do according to the “experts”. It doesn’t bother me because the next time I do it, I hit a trend and if I make it to Fat City, then it more than compensates for ALL my SL profits turned losses.

What I’m saying is that it is PERSONAL and you have to find what fits your style and personality. The good thing is YOU are already profitable so YOU have your own BENCHMARK to judge yourself by.

Do you know what type or style of trader you are? Until you know this, you can’t build a Money Generating Machine.

I have had 3 profitable months in a row using Strat's method (and already in plus territory for Dec!)

Far from going back to the beginning, you should be helping new readers to the thread to do this! Is this REAL money or pretend (demo) money?
15 YEARS OF PASR ON FOREX FACTORY!
  • #8,343
  • Edited 2:35pm Dec 9, 2009 2:30pm | Edited 2:35pm
did i draw the main sr line proparly?i try to see the boss chart and worker chart but maby i am not confidence with what i am drawing is right or wrong.can give me some reply for the chart i draw sr line？ thanks

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q...untitled-2.jpg


i know that there are no right or wrong to draw sr line but i just need some conformation and confidence for what i am doing.

reply will be appreciated.......
  • #8,344
  • Dec 9, 2009 3:29pm Dec 9, 2009 3:29pm
Quoting strat
Marto, first of all Congratulations on your 3 months + profitability.

I'm guessing that MM is a personal thing

It’s not only personal but means different things to different traders........



Thanks so much for the reply. THAT was the kind of answer I have been looking for. You're right, my method of controlling loss is a short-term mentality and I got it from reading ALL those posts on other threads that say NEVER let a gain turn into a loss (plus, i kinda, sorta, used to scalp the M5 charts, but those days are gone!). That's why I move my SL to BE so fast.

But my goal is to hold long term trades for larger moves. I WANT to learn how to keep a trade running and being able to add to it as opportunity presents itself. THAT is my ultimate goal. I've yearned to be able to do that since I first read Jacko's thread. I mean, after trying many different methods I have come to the conclusion that a guy who makes 1000 pips on one trade probably lives longer than a guy who makes 20 pips on 50 trades. And he damn sure has more time for fun!

Is this REAL money or pretend (demo) money?


I am trading "Marto Demo" money. Demo trading just doesn't work for me. I find myself taking trades and saying to myself, "Now, I wouldn't do this with real money", which kinda defeats the whole purpose, so my demo trading is trading on a live account but for 2 pennies/pip. I know it sounds silly but you wouldn't believe how those two stupid pennies change my whole trading mentality from a regular demo account.


My original goal was to move to $1/pip after 3 straight months of profitable trading. Now that I have made my three month goal I will be bumping the stakes up in January but I have decided to bump it up to .10/pip instead of $1. This is because I want to increase my risk but I don't want to make any drastic sudden change that may affect my trading. My confidence is starting to really increase right now and I don't want to ruin that by playing with "scared money". I'm guessing I'll try and go 3 consecutive months trading .10/pip and then go up to .25 or .50/pip.


But, let me make one thing perfectly clear!: When I say I have had 3 months of profitable trading I don't mean I've been making 40,000 pips a month! I have been very selective in my trades as I learn and, therefore, haven't made many trades but the trades I have made have made pips. Just not a whole crapload. Ha, you can probably estimate that by reviewing my "MM".



Far from going back to the beginning, you should be helping new readers to the thread to do this!





I'm really not here to mooch off you and the other traders and I really appreciate all that I have learned on this thread. I'm going to start sounding off a little more now that I'm getting a little more comfortable with all this and starting to build a little confidence. I have been a cash commodity trader for 20+ years but this forex thing is a whole new ball game for me. I would feel like crap if some noobie lost his ass by making a trade because of something he read that I posted. But I am going to try and start giving something back. God knows I am in debt to you and the others on this thread.


Thanks again for the reply!
Marto

  • #8,345
  • Dec 9, 2009 4:17pm Dec 9, 2009 4:17pm
Quoting TTMarto
Thanks so much for the reply. THAT was the kind of answer I have been looking for. You're right, my method of controlling loss is a short-term mentality and I got it from reading ALL those posts on other threads that say NEVER let a gain turn into a loss (plus, i kinda, sorta, used to scalp the M5 charts, but those days are gone!). That's why I move my SL to BE so fast.

But my goal is to hold long term trades for larger moves. I WANT to learn how to keep a trade running and being able to add to it as opportunity presents itself. THAT is my ultimate...
I am trading "Marto Demo" money. Demo trading just doesn't work for me. I find myself taking trades and saying to myself, "Now, I wouldn't do this with real money", which kinda defeats the whole purpose, so my demo trading is trading on a live account but for 2 pennies/pip. I know it sounds silly but you wouldn't believe how those two stupid pennies change my whole trading mentality from a regular demo account.

Nothing “silly” about this Marto. This is what I recommend as it engages our “head friends”.

My original goal was to move to $1/pip after 3 straight months of profitable trading. Now that I have made my three month goal I will be bumping the stakes up in January but I have decided to bump it up to .10/pip instead of $1. This is because I want to increase my risk but I don't want to make any drastic sudden change that may affect my trading. My confidence is starting to really increase right now and I don't want to ruin that by playing with "scared money". I'm guessing I'll try and go 3 consecutive months trading .10/pip and then go up to .25 or .50/pip.

Before I saw it, my recommendation is to go with $0.10/pip. If you can do another 3 months of profitable trading then move to $0.50/pip.

When I say I have had 3 months of profitable trading I don't mean I've been making 40,000 pips a month! I have been very selective in my trades as I learn and, therefore, haven't made many trades but the trades I have made have made pips. Just not a whole crapload. Ha, you can probably estimate that by reviewing my "MM".

This is EXACTLY how new traders should trade – quality NOT quantity - whether you made 10 pips profit or 40,000 pips profit is NOT important at this stage. What IS important is that you came out with a profit trading REAL, LIVE money. Well done!

I'm going to start sounding off a little more now that I'm getting a little more comfortable with all this and starting to build a little confidence. I have been a cash commodity trader for 20+ years but this forex thing is a whole new ball game for me. I would feel like crap if some noobie lost his ass by making a trade because of something he read that I posted. But I am going to try and start giving something back. God knows I am in debt to you and the others on this thread.

Marto, I only want you to post your advice, what you have learned, the problems you encountered etc., as well as your views (opinions) on charts/pairs. I do not want anyone posting outright signals or trades – we are teaching how to fish – NOT giving fish.
15 YEARS OF PASR ON FOREX FACTORY!
  • #8,346
  • Dec 9, 2009 4:23pm Dec 9, 2009 4:23pm
Looks like the submarine fleet have reached or are nearing maximum dive depth.

Time to rest or blow the tanks?
15 YEARS OF PASR ON FOREX FACTORY!
  • #8,347
  • Dec 9, 2009 4:29pm Dec 9, 2009 4:29pm
What the hell is that cowboy song called?
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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15 YEARS OF PASR ON FOREX FACTORY!
  • #8,348
  • Dec 9, 2009 4:32pm Dec 9, 2009 4:32pm
In the early days of the thread you suggested if readers did not yet know price action, they go to J16 to learn before getting to grips with the path of learning.

Pound, shillings and pence – you read it wrong!
I said to go to J16 to learn the price reversal candles NOT price action. PASR is taught on this thread.

Thanks for the response Strat, and apologies for my misreading, nevetheless it has stood me in good stead for learning your LTSFT PASR method.


I now understand price action, but still have patience and discipline difficulties on occasion. Quite a few occasions.

A very bold statement there, psd! There are times when I don’t understand price action.

OK, I'm not meaning to make a bold statement, I'm not qualified to. But I hope I can at least say that I am not the absolute beginner I previously was. Although in profitability terms it may sometimes feel that way.

Under what conditions do you have patience and discipline problems – demo or real live trading?

I demoed with a decent success rate for over 4 months, trying to keep it as real as possible to prepare for live account. This translated well in my first days or even weeks of live trading. After which the psychology of being 'live' got to me. I started losing, losing more, revenge trading and, I'm sure you've heard all this before and know the downward spiral that I went through.
So,I went back to demo
I then had the idea of sometimes taking duplicate trades on live and demo at the same time.Same PC, same screen even.
Weirdly I find I still do better on the demo trades despite them running side by side on the same screen with the live trades !!!!
I want to take 'real' profits too soon, which then run further on the demo, or on the demo I feel able to use a wider stop which often lets the trade breathe before going into profit, while I am stopped out on the live trade.
Its been instructive, but it hasn;t managed to take the demons away.

Are you using a PLAN?

I am. It is in my head. Not written. Which I know is wrong. It probably needs more detail too.

I'm now going to read the thread again, whilst keeping up with the current posts, & look forward to my journey.

Good idea – let us know if you find anything interesting!

I know I will certainly find it all interesting as I've read it before.

I want to say thanks for making this thread Strat, its superb, and I appreciate the significant time and effort you put in.
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting...
  • #8,349
  • Dec 9, 2009 4:36pm Dec 9, 2009 4:36pm
That's it - Home On The Range!
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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15 YEARS OF PASR ON FOREX FACTORY!
  • #8,350
  • Dec 9, 2009 4:50pm Dec 9, 2009 4:50pm
Quoting glyder
In the early days of the thread you suggested if readers did not yet know price action, they go to J16 to learn before getting to grips with the path of learning.

Pound, shillings and pence – you read it wrong!
I said to go to J16 to learn the price reversal candles NOT price action. PASR is taught on this thread.

[font=Arial][color=green][color=green][b]Thanks for the response Strat, and apologies for my misreading, nevetheless it has stood me in good...
I demoed with a decent success rate for over 4 months, trying to keep it as real as possible to prepare for live account. This translated well in my first days or even weeks of live trading. After which the psychology of being 'live' got to me. I started losing, losing more, revenge trading and, I'm sure you've heard all this before and know the downward spiral that I went through.
So,I went back to demo
I then had the idea of sometimes taking duplicate trades on live and demo at the same time.Same PC, same screen even.
Weirdly I find I still do better on the demo trades despite them running side by side on the same screen with the live trades !!!!
I want to take 'real' profits too soon, which then run further on the demo, or on the demo I feel able to use a wider stop which often lets the trade breathe before going into profit, while I am stopped out on the live trade.
Its been instructive, but it hasn;t managed to take the demons away.

Are you using a PLAN?

I am. It is in my head. Not written. Which I know is wrong. It probably needs more detail too.

Glyder, you are fooling yourself with this side by side nonsense. Forget demo and use REAL, LIVE money with the smallest $/pip value.

Read TTMarto’s posts

Until you have a WRITTEN, trusted, irreversible and accepted PLAN, you will never outrun the demons and gremlins.

A mental PLAN is NOT a PLAN – it is exactly where the demons and gremlins and little men want it – IN YOUR HEAD – this is THEIR territory. You MUST get it out of their territory where they can’t touch it.

All this sounds to me like a half – assed attempt to be a trader. Either jump in with both feet and give it your FULL ATTENTION or stay the hell out of Dodge!
15 YEARS OF PASR ON FOREX FACTORY!
  • #8,351
  • Dec 9, 2009 4:53pm Dec 9, 2009 4:53pm
[quote=mstandifer;3279910"
Secondly it looks an awful lot like Almanzo's brother, Mr. Wobble.
[/quote]


Having seen a few posts on 'wobbles' I wouldn't call that a wobble now, but it did what I thought it would. I'm watching for a bounce around 2.0300.
  • #8,352
  • Dec 9, 2009 4:58pm Dec 9, 2009 4:58pm
Where the deer and the antelope play
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15 YEARS OF PASR ON FOREX FACTORY!
  • #8,353
  • Dec 9, 2009 5:11pm Dec 9, 2009 5:11pm
Well this confirms eurusd so we know what to do
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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15 YEARS OF PASR ON FOREX FACTORY!
  • #8,354
  • Dec 9, 2009 5:30pm Dec 9, 2009 5:30pm
Quoting babypips
did i draw the main sr line proparly?i try to see the boss chart and worker chart but maby i am not confidence with what i am drawing is right or wrong.can give me some reply for the chart i draw sr line？ thanks

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q...untitled-2.jpg


i know that there are no right or wrong to draw sr line but i just need some conformation and confidence for what i am doing.

reply will be appreciated.......
You are definitely on the right tracks.

Instead of starting with the BOSS, start with the BIG BOSS and identify the lines. Then switch to the BOSS and fine tune the BIG BOSS lines to match up with the BOSS. Then add other relevant lines from the BOSS.

Remember we are trying to identify major swings and turning points not every PRICE change.

Also remember that we will each have different PRICES at these levels due to different broker data feeds.
15 YEARS OF PASR ON FOREX FACTORY!
  • #8,355
  • Dec 9, 2009 5:37pm Dec 9, 2009 5:37pm
Quoting strat
[color=#993300][font=Arial]A mental PLAN is NOT a PLAN – it is exactly where the demons and gremlins and little men want it – IN YOUR HEAD – this is THEIR territory. You MUST...
Thank for the response Strat I was laughing out loud at that part about the demons and little men in my head, but its so true, I see the seriousness of it. .So, I'll be jumping in with both feet. And making a proper trading plan whilst re-reading the thread....
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting...
  • #8,356
  • Dec 9, 2009 7:26pm Dec 9, 2009 7:26pm
Quoting strat
Looks like the submarine fleet have reached or are nearing maximum dive depth.

Time to rest or blow the tanks?

There are no u-boats around...time to buy them back
  • #8,357
  • Edited 10:53pm Dec 9, 2009 8:31pm | Edited 10:53pm
Quoting strat
I don’t have this pair.

Why are your last two candles in monochrome and not coloured?

I am visualizing my entry. Does that work? My wife says it does.

Where is this on our train analogy – is this where the train goes into the tunnel?
I drew them in as if to say this is what I'd like to see for a good entry on the daily. Which is not what is happening now Back to the waiting room.

Quoting strat
Originally Posted by strat
Looks like the submarine fleet have reached or are nearing maximum dive depth.

Time to rest or blow the tanks?
Strat right now I am a little phased. I believe the weekly close will give a clearer picture though. The daily did not close as a bullish engulfing on my chart and anyway its not at the bottom of a downtrend (position is always key). I can say that we seem to be in a congestion zone on the weekly. It is important to note from my perspective that I'm expecting Dr. Joe's rules to be obeyed and I expect the Lower Highs and Lower lows to continue...

It is also not unusual to see price action this choppy as markets thin AND we approach important areas on the chart. I have seen 300pip spikes on some pairs as they approach breaking an important S&R line, that every trader is watching. My vote at the moment would be a pause, and my money is where my mouth is. Hopefully my foot won't be too soon.
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  • #8,358
  • Dec 9, 2009 10:52pm Dec 9, 2009 10:52pm
Quoting strat
Her beloved 133 has let her down - but we don't care!
That one bears watching, doesn't it. Shame on you for posting a daily chart in isolation. 129 is the key level now (ahead of 127)!
  • #8,359
  • Dec 9, 2009 11:14pm Dec 9, 2009 11:14pm
Quoting strat
Well this confirms eurusd so we know what to do
Another view.
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  • #8,360
  • Dec 9, 2009 11:21pm Dec 9, 2009 11:21pm
Quoting Alexandra
There are no u-boats around...time to buy them back
I may agree, considering 87.50 major SR and if it can stay above 88.
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