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FXCM Micro Account Trading Environment Test

  • #81
  • Dec 1, 2009 3:29pm Dec 1, 2009 3:29pm
Quoting GreedyPIPs
I wouldn't normally post in this section of the forum, but since I've been trading fxcm micro uk for 6 months I want to share a few key points.
First of all I'm not going to comment on slippage or requotes, it happens with all brokers.
I'm not going to comment on stop hunting either or rate manipulation.

Tradestation 2 is amazing, it has never crashed on a decent computer, no lag with a dsl line, nice graphics, nice zoom in and zoom out. Ifact I like tradestation better than mt4!

My two points of concern are the following:

first of all the...
Hi GreedyPips,

Thanks for your feedback on the FX Trading Station II. Hopefully, I can help answer some details about the rollover rates for you.

Rollover rates or swap rates are determined at the interbank level based on money market rates. Every currency you buy or sell has a certain overnight interest rate associated with it such as EURIBOR, LIBOR, etc. Central bank target rates may be used as an example to give you an idea of how rollover is calculated, but the actual rate banks are willing to lend at can be different and are set by the market. Also, if you borrow EUR at 1% and invest in USD at 0.25%, it does not mean the opposite is true. These are tradable instruments and there is a spread between what you can "borrow and invest at" as well.

The last time we saw rollover rates at 0 or negative for both buying and selling was at the height of the credit crunch in 2008. Here are the current micro lot rates for the 4 majors. RollS and RollB on the right hand side display the dollar amount you will earn or pay when Selling and Buying:

http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/1...loverrates.jpg


I compared our rates versus some of our competitors and the rates are better in most cases and some brokers are charging negative roll rates on for both buying and selling on some pairs, for example USD/JPY and GBP/USD.

-Jason
  • #82
  • Dec 1, 2009 3:34pm Dec 1, 2009 3:34pm
Quoting Hyper

Thank you for providing these numbers. So going by your numbers, Interbank FX are providing false information on their web site with their claim of 972 microsecond execution time.
The information I provided is according to FXCM's tech team. It could vary by broker. In all fairness, the execution time from their Sunday data is skewing the rest of the week. Context is important

Quoting Hyper
Thank you for digging that up, however the times that you show are lacking millisecond precision, so it is not clear how far apart each tick are within a single second. There are 1000 milliseconds in a second, so I doubt that two of those ticks occurred within a time span of 1 or 2 milliseconds.
I will see what I can dig up for you...

Jason
  • #83
  • Dec 1, 2009 9:31pm Dec 1, 2009 9:31pm
Quoting Jason Rogers
In all fairness, the execution time from their Sunday data is skewing the rest of the week.
Their Monday to Friday data looks even more amazing: around an average of 500 microsecond order execution time. I actually edited out my Interbank FX comment because I realize they are a Market Maker, so order execution should be faster. But I have also been requesting clarification of their claimed number in another thread because an execution time of less than 1ms sounds a bit far-fetched.

I also added a few more comments about the tick data that you showed, so please refer back to my previous message.
  • #84
  • Dec 1, 2009 10:29pm Dec 1, 2009 10:29pm
Quoting Jason Rogers
Hi Hyper...This is the best way to reduce latency if you're using an expert advisor. Especially if you're located in areas of the world such as Australia, South Africa, Malaysia, Singapore, China, etc.
...
Hi Jason,
Philippines?
All of Asia included?
thanks
  • #85
  • Dec 2, 2009 10:59am Dec 2, 2009 10:59am
Quoting Hyper
I can also see that the price changes from one tick to another are still only 1 to 3 pips. So would 1 to 3 pips of slippage be a worst case scenario if trading at such a moment?
Why are prices changing so quickly?

1. Banks are managing their risk so they may not be offering as much liquidity behind each quote as during a non-volatile market. If you think a trade is very risky, are you going to trade the same amount or reduce the amount you are willing to trade? The same thought process is taken into account by liquidity providers during volatile markets.

2. If there's an increase of orders being executed it will wipe out that liquidity much more quickly. The liquidity at each point is being depleted.

I know you're looking for a more definite answer, but the question is too hypothetical to answer without knowing how many orders need to be filled vs. the amount of liquidity available. And those two variables are constantly changing.

-Jason
  • #86
  • Dec 2, 2009 11:04am Dec 2, 2009 11:04am
Quoting supremeChaos
Hi Jason,
Philippines?
All of Asia included?
thanks
Hi supremeChaos,

Southeast Asia has the most trouble with latency from what I've seen. I imagine it would also help from the Philippines since it cuts down on the distance your order has to travel to our servers. Plus it's free (with an FXCM live account of course).

Jason
  • #87
  • Dec 2, 2009 12:23pm Dec 2, 2009 12:23pm
Dear Jason

FXCM's overnight rates are not the best, trust me i done a recent search, I can provide you with competitors who offer better ones.

But that is not my point. My point is that although a customer representative offered me a standardized explanation of how overnight roll over is calculated together with a formula, when doing calculations on long and short positions i hold for months (i do not scalp, nor swing trade), the calculations do not match up. So either your representative is giving out the wrong formula, or your roll over is incorrectly calculated. More over, i have noticed that although the Australian government has changed twice their interest rates the past 2 months, no adjustments have been made to any of the AUD pairs.

I will try again with the calculations, using LIBOR and EURIBOR rates this time, but as you understand, a fundamental problem lies when representatives cannot explain to customers nor how exactly the roll over is calculated, or why the rolls are not as they should be. It is more of an ethical rather than a practical problem, although if I was trading a standard account with you, i would be pretty upset if I was not receiving the correct roll over.

FYI, the formula i was given (copy paste from FXCM UK's response):
Quote
Sample Calculations
The following are a few simple examples of how interest rollover can be approximated:

[font=Arial]Formula:
No. of Lots x No. of Units per lot x Annual Interest Rate Differential / 360 x No. of Days

Example 1:

Transaction: Buy one lot of EUR/USD
Opening Price: 1.2100
Position Value: EUR 100,000 or USD 121,000
Annual Interest Rate Differential: EUR 2.50% - USD 4.75% - = -2.25%
Calculation in USD: (121,000 x -2.25% / 360) x 1 = about -$7.56 in daily rollover per lot
In other...
Feel free to do the calculations of the annual interest rates from AUD, CAD, USD, EUR, NZD, etc...
  • #88
  • Dec 2, 2009 1:20pm Dec 2, 2009 1:20pm
Quoting GreedyPIPs
Dear Jason

FXCM's overnight rates are not the best, trust me i done a recent search, I can provide you with competitors who offer better ones.

But that is not my point. My point is that although a customer representative offered me a standardized explanation of how overnight roll over is calculated together with a formula, when doing calculations on long and short positions i hold for months (i do not scalp, nor swing trade), the calculations do not match up. So either your representative is giving out the wrong formula, or your roll over...

Hi GreedyPips,

Thanks for the post. The example is correct; however, it is an example.

The current overnight money market lending rates are the interest rates that count. Not the central bank target rates. The Fed Funds rate and ECB rate set by the central banks are targets only. Overnight lending rates are determined at the interbank market level. For example, the ECB target rate is 1% but overnight Euribor is currently around 0.378%. Additionally, since this is a tradeable market with a spread, the borrowing and lending rate are not necessarily the same.

Jason
  • #89
  • Dec 2, 2009 1:24pm Dec 2, 2009 1:24pm
so.... How did you get the name greedypips I wonder...... I think the best thing to do is for FXCM to raise the opening minimum to $5,000 or more or maybe just eliminate the micro accounts. So many negative posts about Fxcm from people that have no idea what they are doing. I've been trading with Fxcm for about 10 years with minor problems that were resolved in my favor.
And still recommend Fxcm to anyone asking for a good broker. About their margin changes? A $10,000 account long 100k loses 50 pips= -$500 ..... a $50,000 account also long 100k loses 50 pips is still $500 no change there.... Even a $3,000 account long 100k -50 pips = -$500 it was all good till Hussein obama showed up


Quoting GreedyPIPs
Dear Jason

FXCM's overnight rates are not the best, trust me i done a recent search, I can provide you with competitors who offer better ones.

But that is not my point. My point is that although a customer representative offered me a standardized explanation of how overnight roll over is calculated together with a formula, when doing calculations on long and short positions i hold for months (i do not scalp, nor swing trade), the calculations do not match up. So either your representative is giving out the wrong formula, or your roll over...
  • #90
  • Dec 2, 2009 3:09pm Dec 2, 2009 3:09pm
So, please, tell me Jason, which rates do you use ?
I am puzzled even more, because I am not getting a clear answer from any of FXCM's representatives.

Which rates do you use, and how do you calculate exactly the overnight positions ?

Also, something that is not mentioned anywhere, is there a spread charge on the overnight positions as well ?

AUD overnight libor is 3.80000 % on 12-2-2009 and CAD is 0.23583 % on 12-2-2209, so what is the formula to calculate roll over on a long position on AUDCAD ?

Devil is in the details, and as far as I am concerned, I have yet not gotten a clear explanation.

Alpari UK for example, offers 0.010 pips on EURUSD long roll over, and -0.030 pips on short EURUSD. (based on the same formula provided by FXCM).

Also, nowhere in FXCM, Alpari, Saxobank, IbFx, or an other broker, does it say anything about Libor or euribor rates but on Annual interest rates differential. So which one is it, and why didn't the representative say that it's based on libor rates?

As you understand, it is this kind of practises that makes me, and other customers uneasy.

Finally, having agents like mofuniverse attack the people who criticize FXCM, is anything but ridiculous.
Like i said, its a shame really, because i really like the platform...
  • #91
  • Dec 2, 2009 4:12pm Dec 2, 2009 4:12pm
Quoting mofuniverse
so.... How did you get the name greedypips I wonder...... I think the best thing to do is for FXCM to raise the opening minimum to $5,000 or more or maybe just eliminate the micro accounts. So many negative posts about Fxcm from people that have no idea what they are doing. I've been trading with Fxcm for about 10 years with minor problems that were resolved in my favor.
And still recommend Fxcm to anyone asking for a good broker. About their margin changes? A $10,000 account long 100k loses 50 pips= -$500 ..... a $50,000 account also long 100k...
I agree with mofuniverse(except doing away with Micro accounts). I was a dyed-in-the-wool FXCM hater. (thats putting it kindly too) I can say for sure they have improved since the 2 years I have been gone. Even their Micro account is worlds better than the mini I suffered thru. Same platform but w/o
the lock-ups. Rollover is no issue for me as I usually close out before their due.( If I were a Postion trader only I would be VERY interested in Swap charges though) I have traded a Live Micro for the past 2 months and I like the platform now. I dont like all the restrictions placed on them(micro) but the feed and reliability sure has improved. I guess I will have to find a new broker hate, thankfully.
FF = Forex Faggots
  • #92
  • Dec 2, 2009 9:27pm Dec 2, 2009 9:27pm
Quoting GreedyPIPs
..........Finally, having agents like mofuniverse attack the people who criticize FXCM, is anything but ridiculous.........
There are plenty of wolves on this forum in sheep's clothing.

You cannot make money consistently with FXCM. Simple.
  • #93
  • Dec 3, 2009 11:53pm Dec 3, 2009 11:53pm
im ridiculous? LOL your the one making a big deal about your micro account .03 cent roll over fee... you seem like you work for some broker trying to bash someone better than you. either your a very smart "agent" as you call yourself... or a total fool...


Quoting GreedyPIPs
So, please, tell me Jason, which rates do you use ?
I am puzzled even more, because I am not getting a clear answer from any of FXCM's representatives.

Which rates do you use, and how do you calculate exactly the overnight positions ?

Also, something that is not mentioned anywhere, is there a spread charge on the overnight positions as well ?

AUD overnight libor is 3.80000 % on 12-2-2009 and CAD is 0.23583 % on 12-2-2209, so what is the formula to calculate roll over on a long position on AUDCAD ?

Devil is in the details, and as far as I...
  • #94
  • Dec 4, 2009 8:12pm Dec 4, 2009 8:12pm
Hi Guys,

some time ago (like two weeks) I said I will be publishing my impressions from FXCM's micro trade environment here. I would've loved to do that, however I got sick of trying to register. What it is - they wanted me to send them a document that verifies my current address. No big deal. I sent them what they wanted - a bank statement where my address is stated - in a standard pdf file that my bank sent me. It turned out that the pdf file, in which the bank sent me the statement is corrupted. And then the next one. And the next one. Until I got suspicious and Bcc-ed myself on the email with the attachment I sent them. Imagine my surprise when I opened the attachment from the email I sent to myself but I still got the "attachment was corrupted" email from FXCM.
I am from Bulgaria. FXCM have an official partner in Bulgaria so the language barrier should not be a problem. And obviously the file wasn't corrupted. Good for me I did not send them any money before I confirm everything, otherwise I would've never been able to withdraw it. It's a free market.
Good bye, FXCM.
  • #95
  • Dec 4, 2009 10:27pm Dec 4, 2009 10:27pm
Quoting Setebos
Hi Guys,

some time ago (like two weeks) I said I will be publishing my impressions from FXCM's micro trade environment here. I would've loved to do that, however I got sick of trying to register. What it is - they wanted me to send them a document that verifies my current address. No big deal. I sent them what they wanted - a bank statement where my address is stated - in a standard pdf file that my bank sent me. It turned out that the pdf file, in which the bank sent me the statement is corrupted. And then the next one. And the next one. Until...
There is surly some problem in your attachement.
Normaly bank send Statement with Password protection.
Do one thing. Take printout of statement, Scan it, and then send that scan copy to FXCM, and that should resolve your problem.

And never fund money to any broker before your accout get fully verify, else it created Problem for broker and also for you.
  • #96
  • Dec 4, 2009 10:29pm Dec 4, 2009 10:29pm
Quoting Setebos
. And obviously the file wasn't corrupted.
just because you can open it doesn't mean they were not getting a "file corrupted" error.
You could try maybe printing the PDF than scanning as a jpeg and sending them that.

I signed up for a FXCM micro account awhile ago. I was trading the next day after I sined up. I scanned a phone bill a couple days after that and everything was fine.

I really don't like their trading platform I use my other platform for chart work but the spreads are low.
  • #97
  • Dec 5, 2009 1:33am Dec 5, 2009 1:33am
Their spreads are low ? You are joking ! Yersteday during the announcement of US unemployment rate, EurUsd was at 3 pips spread on fxcm while mbt had a 0.9 spread. Alpari had a 2 pip spread. During Canadian Employment change and unemployment rate release, AudCad on fxcm had 6 pips spread while mbt had 3 pip spread and fxsolutions 3.5 pip spread. You can verify it your self by watching the bid/ask of various brokers during news releases.
By the way I still haven't got a clear answer on the roll over rates...
  • #98
  • Dec 5, 2009 1:51am Dec 5, 2009 1:51am
Quoting GreedyPIPs
Their spreads are low ? You are joking ! Yersteday during the announcement of US unemployment rate, EurUsd was at 3 pips spread on fxcm while mbt had a 0.9 spread. Alpari had a 2 pip spread. During Canadian Employment change and unemployment rate release, AudCad on fxcm had 6 pips spread while mbt had 3 pip spread and fxsolutions 3.5 pip spread. You can verify it your self by watching the bid/ask of various brokers during news releases.
By the way I still haven't got a clear answer on the roll over rates...
It's a good thing I don't try to get into a trade during news than.
and yes the roll over rates aren't what they should be and since I don't use my micro account for carry trades I couldn't care less.
  • #99
  • Dec 5, 2009 3:45am Dec 5, 2009 3:45am
Quoting ramdas
There is surly some problem in your attachement.
Normaly bank send Statement with Password protection.
Do one thing. Take printout of statement, Scan it, and then send that scan copy to FXCM, and that should resolve your problem.

And never fund money to any broker before your accout get fully verify, else it created Problem for broker and also for you.
It sounds like you work for FXCM Ramdas.....
  • #100
  • Dec 5, 2009 3:48am Dec 5, 2009 3:48am
Quoting Evilgoat
It's a good thing I don't try to get into a trade during news than.
and yes the roll over rates aren't what they should be and since I don't use my micro account for carry trades I couldn't care less.
what i can't believe is that charge for withdrawals in Australia. They told me all funds kept in aussie trust acc then why do I pay for a bank transfer.

very strange........... if it was same day return I can understand but i was told it's overnight.

FXCM are a real smoke and mirrors IMO
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