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Sleeping and Trading

  • #1
  • First Post: Nov 26, 2009 4:51am Nov 26, 2009 4:51am
I have traditionally only traded the US/London overlap from about 6am est to 11 or so and sometimes the early asian session. I would like to start trading the FO and LO at about 1am est. Does anyone have any advice on how to do this effectively so that you are not completely exhausted by the end of the week?
  • #2
  • Nov 26, 2009 4:59am Nov 26, 2009 4:59am
Trade H4 and Daily Timeframes. Problem solved.
  • #3
  • Edited 6:02am Nov 26, 2009 5:49am | Edited 6:02am
whatts "FO"?

Btw moving to London might solve your problem?

(ahh, Frankie Open, figured out in the meantime)
forget about tomorrow, just steal away into the night
  • #4
  • Nov 26, 2009 6:00am Nov 26, 2009 6:00am
If I was trading for a living I would:

- catch FO/LO from 0630 GMT to 0900 GMT
- powernap til the NY open
- trade NY open til London close
- call it a day, nap in the late morning or afternoon

This works if you can pull off the naps and grab at least 3-4 hours of good sleep in each. Alternatively, you could pull a graveyard shift and trade from FO to London close. Advantage is you will benefit from solid 8hr sleep everyday, probably have more energy on the weekends.

Actually, I kinda like the second alternative better.
"If The Fool persists in his Folly he will become wise." - William Blake
  • #5
  • Nov 26, 2009 6:08am Nov 26, 2009 6:08am
Energy drinks, coffee and loud music.
  • #6
  • Nov 26, 2009 6:13am Nov 26, 2009 6:13am
Quoting Tjpld
Trade H4 and Daily Timeframes. Problem solved.
yah ok not my thing.
  • #7
  • Nov 26, 2009 6:13am Nov 26, 2009 6:13am
Hi,
I assume FO means Frankfurt Open and LO means London open.

I live in GMT - 7 (MST) zone. I've been trading FO/LO for several years and recently Tokyo session as well in my evening.

I don't go to bed at all before trading - found that it was hard to rest and then wake up/get ready for FO/LO.

Try to hit the bed around 6AM ET. However good a setup looks, I don't take trades after 6ET. If there are open trades, I might manage them, but no new trades.

From there on, if you can get 6/7 hrs of sleep, you should be fine. Initially, trying to sleep during daytime was difficult with all the daytime noise. I put the phone on silent mode, use ear plugs to muffle the noise and that helped me.

During the night, if you can do your analysis, setup alerts on the chart, then take a nap for 20-30 min. while waiting for setups. That will help a lot. But, don't let the nap turn into prolonged sleep as that will affect your daytime sleep routine.

Tough part is the transition from work week to weekend and then back to work week. On Sun, I try to get at least 3-4 hrs of sleep during the day to prepare for staying awake during Sun night/Mon early morning. Its ok with me as my weekend kinda begins from Fri 10AM and not Fri 5PM.

If you are beginning this, expect few days/weeks of struggle as your body has to adjust to the new sleep schedule.

I'd also suggest that you read "Take a nap, change your life" by Sara Mednick.

It was tough in the beginning, but I'm very used to this schedule. Its doable.

Not sure if you have the option of moving to Europe to catch both FO/LO without losing sleep. But, if you can't, take comfort in knowing that lots of traders have done/ are doing what you are trying to.
  • #8
  • Nov 26, 2009 6:14am Nov 26, 2009 6:14am
Quoting spekitox
whatts "FO"?

Btw moving to London might solve your problem?

(ahh, Frankie Open, figured out in the meantime)
yah I though of that but thats not really in the cards.
  • #9
  • Nov 26, 2009 6:27am Nov 26, 2009 6:27am
Quoting endroute
yah ok not my thing.
Sonner or later you will find out that higher timeframes are alot easier and stressfree to trade and you can make just as much money.

I give you one or two years.
  • #10
  • Nov 26, 2009 6:34am Nov 26, 2009 6:34am
I live in Indonesia so it's GMT+7, and lately during US session the market price does not interesting anymore, so slow it was not like 1 or two years ago. I prefer to enter EUR session around of 2pm in my country, then i'll check my position at 8.30pm (to place the other order for my next trade).

I could take the advantages for 2 or 3 times during US session before on my inday trader but not for last few months . so after placing my order (if i got the right moments) i just go to sleep and i'll check it out next day.

Success on your trade guys..
It's Designed and Balance
  • #11
  • Nov 26, 2009 6:48am Nov 26, 2009 6:48am
Quoting Tjpld
Sonner or later you will find out that higher timeframes are alot easier and stressfree to trade and you can make just as much money.

I give you one or two years.
no seriously been there done that and they are not for me, I have found approaches that work for me that I am happy with.
  • #12
  • Nov 26, 2009 7:31am Nov 26, 2009 7:31am
Quoting Tjpld
Trade H4 and Daily Timeframes. Problem solved.
I agree with this.
  • #13
  • Nov 26, 2009 8:02am Nov 26, 2009 8:02am
Quoting denverdude
Not sure if you have the option of moving to Europe to catch both FO/LO without losing sleep. But, if you can't, take comfort in knowing that lots of traders have done/ are doing what you are trying to.
When I'm rich like Tjpld, definitely a trading base in Europe will be necessary, at least seasonally. Ah, yes but where? Menorca, Amsterdam, ....but that's a different thread.
"If The Fool persists in his Folly he will become wise." - William Blake
  • #14
  • Nov 26, 2009 8:35am Nov 26, 2009 8:35am
Quoting endroute
I have traditionally only traded the US/London overlap from about 6am est to 11 or so and sometimes the early asian session. I would like to start trading the FO and LO at about 1am est. Does anyone have any advice on how to do this effectively so that you are not completely exhausted by the end of the week?
If you have to trade this way you might want to reduce it to 2 days out the week. Lack of sleep will eventually lead to bad decisions.
  • #15
  • Nov 26, 2009 10:23am Nov 26, 2009 10:23am
i'll sleep after i get rich
  • #16
  • Nov 26, 2009 10:46am Nov 26, 2009 10:46am
I take it, you must be a scalper?
Tjpld just solved your problem. Higher timeframes allows you to have a life; get some sleep ... make money while doing other things. It doesn't get any simpler than that.

I like your passion ... reminds me of me when I was just starting out. I didn't sleep, traded at night worked in the day and traded at work. Hated myself becaudrI would sleep through great trading opportunities. Traded during holidays. It took a huge loss of equity to realize that I needed to take care of me before continuing trading. If you deprive yourself, you'll lose out, especially since we humans are not EA's. Take care of yourself and then will you be successful trader. No one has ever gotten rich without sleep and a little self-pampering/endulging. Start each trading day with a clear mindset and be open for change and opportunity.

It may sound like I'm preaching and I don't care. Take what the experienced trader are giving you ... cause they are giving you pearls and a little insight into the true world of profitable trading. If you ask for advice and disregard what they are telling you, then why ask?
  • #17
  • Nov 26, 2009 10:52am Nov 26, 2009 10:52am
Quoting endroute
Does anyone have any advice on how to do this effectively so that you are not completely exhausted by the end of the week?
Sleep,,,, you sleep?,,,, how do you do that?
  • #18
  • Nov 26, 2009 11:26am Nov 26, 2009 11:26am
Quote
Sonner or later you will find out that higher timeframes are alot easier and stressfree to trade.
I am with you, with good MM control
It's Designed and Balance
  • #19
  • Nov 26, 2009 12:02pm Nov 26, 2009 12:02pm
I am about the same time zone that you seem to be.
What you describe here works pretty well.

PLUS............I close the office door when I trade, so outside interruptions are limited and dosing off on the sofa behind my chair is rewarding when waiting for a better entry.

In the weekends I stick to the same routine, NOT very much appreciated by the spouse, but it works for me and after all..........WHO is doing the trading here, LOL?

For me it is all a matter of getting used to a certain routine and not having to "walk" far to work, does have its advantages.


Quoting denverdude
Hi,
I assume FO means Frankfurt Open and LO means London open.

I live in GMT - 7 (MST) zone. I've been trading FO/LO for several years and recently Tokyo session as well in my evening.

I don't go to bed at all before trading - found that it was hard to rest and then wake up/get ready for FO/LO.

Try to hit the bed around 6AM ET. However good a setup looks, I don't take trades after 6ET. If there are open trades, I might manage them, but no new trades.

From there on, if you can get 6/7 hrs of sleep, you should be fine. Initially, trying to sleep...
  • #20
  • Last Post: Nov 26, 2009 12:03pm Nov 26, 2009 12:03pm
How many setups do you see during a typical session? Are you making the best possible use of alarms and limit orders? Depending on your methodology, you can let your computer do some of the work. For instance, do your analysis at the beginning of the session, then, if you are waiting for a certain price level that may or may not occur, you could simply set an alert(s) and go to sleep. You'll have some sessions where activity will keep you up, but you'll be spared staying awake through a flat session. Make sure you have your plan written out each night so if your alert sounds, you don't wake from a sound sleep trying to recall your plan.

I've been blessed with RLS--Restless Legs Syndrome. The condition only allows me to sleep 3 or 4 hours nightly. A gift and a curse that I'd gladly pass on to someone else. Though I never "feel" tired and have more productive hours than most, insufficient rest has too many other health consequences. Most of us can get by with a little less sleep, but there is a tipping point where the toll on overall health outweighs the benefit of accomplishing our goals.
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