Forex Mentors - The Best Investment You Can Make?

Hi daytrading

I can't believe that this discussion is still going on....I left some eight hours ago and you have continued to battle on and argue with some more traders. People who come here for the sole intention of arguing with other traders without offering any valid trading discussion are known as trolls.

The interesting split in the discussion is shown by the two sets of posters.

On the one side,
I have shown my trading method clearly and openly on this forum.
I have also shown the results of my earlier live trading.
I have been prepared to discuss ANY part of my method.
I did this because I wanted to share what I had found to other small traders. (This was done years before the first group was opened. My first trading was done in 2005 and the first group didn't start until 2008...I had no intentions or thoughts of a training group when I first started)

A couple (ten I think) of my members have come here and said that the training has helped them enormously and they are now trading successfully and profitably as independent individual traders.
They have verified that they can see all my trading and that MY trading has continued to be profitable.
They have shown some of their own trading results.
They have admitted openly that they have come back to the Forum to tell other traders that they have found something special.

On the other hand, I have just reviewed some of your posts. I could not find ANY intelligent indication of how you trade. I can see lots of polite criticism of everyone else and how they trade, but nothing of substance about how you trade.
Now your alter ego pipmutt and gbppip (banned) and slackjaw (also banned) has categorically stated that IF he had a successful method , he would NEVER share it with anyone and that anyone who does so is a fool.

So I suppose that is the difference between the two sets of posters here.

Strangely enough, I started re-participating with almost the same words in the thread yesterday - with the difference that it wasn't down to me the so called discussion had racked up 700 posts, not saying anything of value for at least 350 of them.

Your approach to this discussion I am taking part in, in a perfectly harmonious way is quite totalitarian. We are not in 'your' thread here - and to label people as 'trolls' simply because you don't embrace their way of discussing something vaguely related to you is rather childish.

When and in which manner you left (yesterday, saying you have better things to do), has no bearing whatsoever on how long I might wish to carry on talking to other members about anything I like - nobody here needs your permission or sanction for a discussion.

We all might dislike to hear criticism but to induce prejudice through establishing groups and attaching a value to each is something that has its roots in the 'Third Reich' - and not in a modern day financial forum - at least that is what I thought when I joined.

My next point is your constant unfounded allegation that I have 'alter egos' or that I need to post under multiple avatars - it must be really hard for you to take that there is more that one person who has different views than yourself on the subject of the discussion. It has been mentioned (not by me) that there is the thought going 'round that quite a number of brand new members are made up by you to keep the promotion of your service on the front page of FF - so people indirectly receive word of it (I mentioned that y'day).

To your last point: I would never disclose any of my proprietary work of any of the trading models I use (at least not on a public forum - and its not a requirement for any member to do so). I never proclaimed differently and there are several hundred if not thousands of members with the same profile who wish to contribute and help in different ways. Frankly, I believe that 99% of the 'trading systems' section is worthless. I have though in the past taken it upon me to teach and even employ members on the back of my judgement that they had what it took to become great traders.

Fact remains that it is you who can't deal with the way the discussion is conducted and your way of compensating what seems to be a lack of confidence in your own followers brings you back here to attack me - simply to overshadow the reality that none of them rushes to back you up (or their own claims for that matter) with some real evidence.

Ultimately, what you are saying is that people who have been paying you (or otherwise followed your advice) should not have the guts to come out and prove that what they have learned is worth the money or the effort - instead you applaud them (in a fairly obvious manner) to keep a thread alive by making unsubstantiated claims which reflects badly on the forum and yourself, while at the same time trying to label anyone who does not go along with it as a 'troll'.

Come on people, wake up and smell the coffee. It is not me who accused the service of being a scam - I am simply asking a few questions and turning over a few stones. Usually when a snake sits under one of them and bites, it means that something might not be kosher.

There is still the opportunity here to prove me wrong, albeit not with words but with some hard evidence....no let me re-phrase this: no need to prove me wrong but all the new readers who might feel the same, because it could be their money on the line.

regards
daytrading

Daytrading, I fully understand what you say here especially since I work in the same business as you. In Scandinavia and probably in a lot of other countries too, we start to (finally) see a more regulated branch. You know probably better than me how it has been for many years, also within the fx market.

Before we make any contract with other trading-firms, we consider the track-record as vital (along with other factors too, of course) since it could be a good sign of what to expect in future. I don't understand why this is such an difficult task/not an standard in forex trading (generally speaking) as I would never consider doing business with anyone who couldn't show some past performance, much like you would never hire someone without (the right) CV or invest in a particular stock without some past results.

On the other hand, I think it probably gives a higher chance for an desired outcome handing your money to an possible mentor contra buying useless EA's, indicators or other systems.

I have bought one single system myself by someone I by now dare to call a friend of mine after probably a year of research around his work and watching 4 years of the systems performance. While his system was perfectly legal and profitable, it didn't fit me very well but the experience and knowledge that followed his system it turned out to be a really good experience for me.

Hi aediaz1,

The retail forex arena has developed into a scammer-eldorado and I find it only a natural conclusion that people should be on their guard when reading in forums and other places on the internet about ventures/systems/advice/signals that make promises for cash.

There is no regulation against rip-off's for the small time individual which I think is a shambles. When looking at the big money, like MAC's and Hedge Funds, fraud happens there as well (we have all seen it in the media very recently), but the limitations on how a fund or mac is allowed to advertise are very strict.

They are for example not allowed to grant access to their (web based or other) information to investors who are not accredited as such - hence protecting them from being enticed to invest into what they might not understand.

If an investor (who is accredited, i.e. his/her net worth is beyond a certain threshold) will want to invest, the due diligence is enormous, and one part includes the trading track record. Now there is a difference between established traders and emerging traders, the latter is not expected to have a track record but to have a promising proposal in form of a valid trading model (inclusive of valid risk and money management).

To bring this in context with the thread and to cut through the thick of it, I had a look (for the second time) on the 'waynejacksonfx' blog. the following is a part of the 'trading record' section:



The following was posted on 03-07-2006
As can be seen from my trading history that has been published real-time here on this thread, I was $30,000 in profit last month...this month (at the current price of 1.1920), I am $8,800 in profit (plus my off record trade is $13,000 in profit).
I realise that my trades look big... but I have yet to touch my original starting capital....

I also agree that I have moved up my positions agressively...from 5 lots...to 9 lots...to 20 lots...to 30 lots, all within a six week period....I will be slowing down on the growth rate of my positions in the future.

The following was posted on 04-06-2006
Since I have been recording my trades here on 2/2/06 (just over two months), I have made a strong six figure income ($188K) ...with minimal ($3000) drawdown on my original account (which occurred on my third trade here)




That to a lay person means nothing else than that the intention of the trades were posted - which can look good if the trades work out - but it does in reality not necessarily mean that a) the trades were executed in a live account, and b) the trades were put on in the specified size. The above type of information might be sufficient for an uneducated investor to take it face-value and hence be impressed by it.

Although during the discussion in this thread, some of the members of the group have claimed that they have seen the history of the trades (entry/exit), but have they really - I mean, have they ever been shown a verified account statement in the proclaimed size and a real trading track record other than a history of signals telling them when to enter/exit without having actual prove of the signal provider entering the the trades in the said fashion?

I could tell people all day long where to enter trades - and they would make tons of money on the back of it. By telling them, they could even be under the impression that I trade those signals/recommendations myself - I could pretend to do just that and get people to pay me for that....in fact, I could even tell them I am not trading it and still get the results.

To verify this type of volunteered information to me would be the necessary due diligence - the like you would get to see if you wanted to invest in a fund/mac. Now, I am aware that it is not a fund managing business - nevertheless, the service sold is based on the successful managing of money, the results of which should be clearly available upon request by any new paying member.

If that is not the case, I would have my doubts about the legitimacy of the business. As I said previously, I am not interested in whether the business is real or not - I am interested in raising awareness about the possibility that it might not be what it says on the tin.

If I get proven wrong, I have achieved a positive outcome as well: that of having (through my comments and posts) established that people can see this forum and its associated/affiliated businesses holding up to scrutiny, which is outside the the forum world a very normal way of conducting business.

regards
daytrading

Hi daytrading

Again...I am sorry but I am not wasting my time responding in depth to your post. I do honestly have better things to do.


Firstly, I am quite prepared to openly and freely share my trading method.

Secondly, I DON'T believe that 99% of the other traders contributions here are worthless

Thats the difference between you and me.


And in all honesty, if you are not prepared to share anything AND you think everyone elses contributions are worthless....WHY are you here?????

Hmmm...because you are a troll?????

.

Again,

I did expect no different.

I don't believe you are 'sorry' either - I rather believe you do not have any valid responses, since what I am saying hits the point.

The fact that you 'freely' share you system means absolutely nothing - hundreds over hundreds of people do it on the trading systems part of the forum. In spite of this, nobody ever comes back with hard evidence that they have become money-machines. The best we get here are unsubstantiated 'claims' of how well they do, and when asked to back it up with evidence, they all disappear without a trace.

I have shared plenty of my knowledge on this forum - whether people could convert it into improvements in their trading habits, I don't know. I have not ever asked to be paid for it, nor do I have a business that makes claims that what I know will transform anyone's abilities. I am not a teacher, I am a trader. I don't bullsh*t and I don't call people trolls - that is the difference between you and me.

If you would care to read properly, you would know that I believe that 99% of the 'trading systems' section is worthless. Come on Wayne, don't just stumble in here and only half-read to what you want to construct an answer to (well, its not really an answer, you're right). They are worthless because 99% of the systems shown are not 100% mechanical in nature and therefore are non-transferable. I thought that you have been trading for 15 years....you should know.

For someone who is asking a $700 annual membership fee, you do very little to convince potential customers of its value. I pay £700 ($1162) for my membership in a London cigar club - which is better value as far as I can make out.

Come on Wayne, don't hide behind a poorly constructed blog site and some 'troll' shouting - do it for the sake of the forum who backed you by putting your thread in the commercial section - if nobody else but the many new readers deserve to see the evidence that you are for real.

regards
daytrading

I wonder how I would react if I saw my mentor calling other traders for trolls on a fx forum when getting confronted in a quite polite way.

Jacko, I think you're way over-reacting. 99% of the systems in here are useless - note he said systems - not contributions. Ask anyone who properly backtests and they'll tell you the same; and by backtest I mean not just glancing back at the charts saying it looks good. And yours - it can be made freely available to share because it intrinsically has no edge. Now before you think that's insulting, it's not. But if you backtest this mechanically with trail, 50% fib and emulate the rough timescale you trade on, plus the AH, you'll see the results are pretty disappointing. Your profitability you may think is down to the system, I assure you it's not - it's down to your discretion.

It comes down to this - there are multiple users with a handful of posts who are all spouting the same thing and they do appear to the the same person. I know your writing style well enough to know it's not you doing that, so who knows? FXtrader29 or whatever certainly isn't doing you any favours.

It's a shame really, because you do have something of value to offer so there's really no need to turn some robust questioning into a battle.

.. this really has become a ridiculous confrontation between two members for whom I have the greatest respect (still ).

daytrading : I have found so much of value in so many of your posts;
Jacko : you know I'm a supporter;

... but guys, can't you see what a fruitless argument you're having ?

It's beneath both of you & not actually serving anyone.

Triphop,

This 700+ joke of a thread has gone far beyond that already.

I have politely (and a little forwardly) asked several times for the involved to come up with some real evidence - especially since monies have changed hands for the provision of a 'service'.

I haven't (and most likely will not get to) see(n) any evidence until hell freezes over - because I suspect there is none.

When I was a child and I won my first tennis tournament at the age of 8, and someone asked me a while after to show them the medal, I'd run up to my room to get it - because I was proud of it. When some of the other children at school doubted my winning the prize, I'd let them see it including the certificate with my name written on it. That is not boasting, that is backing up what what I said and did.

I am absolutely flabbergasted that in here, it seems absolutely impossible for some people to do what even children know and learn in everyday life situations - let alone in later life and business: when making claims (which are meant for the purpose to entice others to possibly spend their money on the back of those claims), to not want to back them up with real evidence for everyone to see when asked. The instinct of pride and wanting to show that (in this case) the proprietor (and members) have actually made stacks of money (or in member cases have improved their live trading) is the most normal course of action - let alone the business sense that should dictate to rectify the present situation caused by simple questions.

Prove to the community that what's behind the blog and the pay-for membership is real - otherwise new members could come under the impression that the people in the thread who accused the business of being a scam could actually be right.

regards
daytrading

I guess so DT. I don't feel quite the same way given I spent a year following his trades and he did as he said he would. Would it make any difference if he was trading micro lots rather than a couple of hundred full size? I guess I'd feel deceived but it wouldn't take back what I learnt.

Congrats on the tennis tournament by the way, good skills

In all manners of business and life it's prudent to be aware to the dreaded snake oil......



No offense to any thread participant intended.

Hi Jtrade,

Firstly, I wouldn't go as far as to call it a confrontation - since I am addressing all readers in the same fashion.

Secondly, it is not beneath me to address a very real issue that in my view has been neglected throughout the retail FX playing field, especially forums: the real possibility of abuse of trust and the laissez-faire attitude including conducting or offering business services based on verbal assurances only (or assurances that are not verified the way which is common practice in the real world).

regards
daytrading

Thanks, Triphop -

Its a long time ago and my nimbleness has been replaced with heavy upholstery around the belly.

To your reply regarding the subject: its besides the point because it does not justify the means.

regards
daytrading

P.S. Auxexis - nice one; never lose the sense of humour.

Daytrading,

Couldn't pass up on the opportunity to link that one. However, you do bring up a subject that has been a negative with retail forex in general, the lack of regulation and oversight. You are correct in the fact that the solicitation for services in other venues is strictly regulated.

The industry is slowly coming around. It's funny that so many oppose it.

regards,

Yes, its more or less still a free-for-all environment in retail forex. Time for change is nigh...hopefully. If I can help pushing in that direction, I will do so with great effort.

regards
daytrading

Hi coscorp (& all!)

I really don't want to get into this whole debate again (besides which daytrading has put everything far more eloquently that I could!), but just to clarify the reason behind the vouch......

I always respect other people's opinions when they're presented in a lucid and well thought out manner, and like you say although ultimately we didn't agree on a few points I respected the way you presented your opinions rather than resorting to infatile name-calling which so many seem to do when they can't support their views with reason and logic, or anything remotely tangible.

In my opinion your argument was lucid, reasonable, and well presented so I used a vouch as an endorsement of your ability to hold a sensible discussion rather than your actual opinions themselves.

Just so there's no misunderstanding

Hey, Pipmutt -

apparently, you are my alter ego - what do you have to say to that?

regards
daytrading

hi everyone,im a member of jacko,s group and have been trading the method,i can 100% agree with what daytrading says,the people on the list other than coscorp who i know is a honest guy and a trader all the others i feel are plants to market your service which for me there posts just dont add up fxtrader29 i feel is worst culprit and as for the other guys dont do any favours,you get the same old crap when a winning trade happens they all come out the woodwork,when things are not so good... nothing.my main biz before trading ful time was sales and marketing and i can see through the bs .jacko stop this now you can trade you know your trading and the method works.these people dont do you any favours.people who trade can see this.also its miss leading.keep posting on your blog it adds credibilty and stop the marketing from the jackson 5 .you know who you are just my feelings

These Brits really have it out for you Jacko. Sound like their next move will be to get everyone banned from the forum.

What did you do to piss them off? Take all there money?

In all seriousness though, it really is coming across that certain folks have a big axe to grind here.