The System II (Yes with irony)

I hope you held on the pullback mate

sure did mate, lets hope this baby drops out the sky!

BE at mo.

I closed at +14 just before the NYopen, always wary of it

I'll get back to you very soon brother....I had to copy and paste your post on MS words......Stay put....

I'll get back to you very soon brother!!! just gimme some time!!!!


I promise..

feb,
I am a junior member - can't PM you here.
I can't find you on Skype under
FEB2865 - don't know what's the problem,
thanks!

Hi,
missed the whole day of trading due to having death in the family and i had to pay my respect..

But just came back and saw the opportunity and jumped on it.. its paying off in a big way... 1st trade and its a bigdaddy one.. lol

http://cdn.forexfactory.com/images/attach/gif.gif

Ok Paulie..
i see u attempting to challenge me.. I like it..

what u say above all could be valid.. now the only thing is left for u is to prove it in live trade reall time..
meaning that I/we would like u to see you hold a trade through point 1 and 2 (your 2nd figure/chart) before u get the victory on point 3 for extra gain and give us step by step analysis so we all can learn and copy...
ofcourse this needs to be done shown consistently with consisten result.. ..
i open to all thing with all means.. and i am ready to trade live with u on Monday before london session start.

hi fx i was on that wave up, but then i got out, looking to enter agian if it breaks.

Feb,

would you be willing to invite me as your buddy on Skype - my ID is:

skypetrainer

I have been trading Forex for close to 3 years and finally now I am breaking even in my trading.

I believe after reading your threads that participation in your classroom will give me the necessary skills to become winning trader

Thanks in advance!

Bo

Hey Feb,

Thanks for your reply. Maybe you have a second or two to look at my further questions/replies ? I put your points in italics.

As you invited anyone to contribute,

No problems, thanks for your reply I appreciate it.

I am reading over and over and I perceive that your problem is what to do when the market goes in a range while you in a trade.

Indeed. I would qualify just one point though and this wasn’t supposed to be a trick or anything like that but the push I gave in the example was for 30 pips – reason being that originally it was said that 40 pips ‘can be considered as a runner’ and it is OK to bank etc… Now with 30 pips obviously this is less than the 40, and in fact the market is teasing us, because we are thinking ok, maybe she will push again or maybe I am going to leave pips on the table and my 30 will become 10 or something – there is some market tantalization going on.

A true cold hard fact is that ALL markets goes in a range due lack of volume. The disadvantage spot trades have is no way to quantify volume. My opinion, screw the volume, will only make your trade on your toes.

Ok this is an interesting point and I am sure that this is going to be another reply to bookmark for people from you. Can I ask another question relevant to why prices go into a range? I had always understood that prices go into range as the buyers and sellers agree on current prices, there is no one party who is unhappy to pay – buy or sell – at the price that is currently available. Is the resulting decrease in volume then a by product of the ranging price or the original reason for it?

Maybe an analogy from outside the market might work for us here – take the cash for clunkers thing they have recently been doing world wide – you get some cash for your old banger and then walk off with a new car – in simple terms they been knocking out cars at much below normal prices, with government sponsored incentives. What happened? Many people stepped up to the plate and took the deal, I did it myself. Volume increased because the deal was considered good and everyone got happy- for a time at least. In this case the volume at the old prices trickled off to very low historical levels but increased dramatically at the new ones.

For me the reason in this case then that the volume trickled to below average was that prices were considered very unattractive and to bring the buyers back in again price had to fall. So volume - if you could quantify it – could help in determining the end of the range – vol gets so low – by implication the market will have to adjust price wise in order to find good two way business.

(This theory about buyers and sellers in agreement is simply nonsense.
Ranges are simply lack of participation. That’s it. Simply look at volume in stocks, futures etc.Works like a clock. Everytime you see lack of volume, the market shrinks. There’s few exceptions on where the market surges in low volume and that is an artificial move based on something else. That’s very rare but it happens. Buyers and sellers need to see something of value before step into the plate. Nobody wants to be the first in line. This is where the big guns comes and push the market somewhere. That’s their job. Markets are simply a bunch of people working under a collective state of mind. Someone shouts “buy” “sell” and some people will follow. Some will fold(pullbacks) some will keep going )


In my experience....all the time...the market is up for grabs when it gets on a range.

Ok this is an interesting point as well – just to clarify and ensure I understand you correctly you mean that it can go either way – price could be pushed sufficiently by larger enough players to draw in and create follow thru from the rest of the players ?

(exactly)


In that particular graphic you posted, assuming you bagged 30 pips already, and now with the fact that you know anything could happen on a range.....what would you do?

1) A B/E trade? Of course you're not gonna let that winner turn into a loser...

Agreed; I have to say that until now I have let trades run 15 to 20 pips and come right back down at me and taken BE – bit I would not accept 30.

2)Close the trade, take the bounty and look for a re-entry??


If you chose # 1 is not a big deal. You play defense and that's completely valid. There will be another bus somewhere down the road.

OK I find giving 30 back quite a bit though as I said above.

#2 is a bit tricky. See, as we already established that the market is up for grabs, anything goes. So, here's the deal.

a) you re-entry at the same direction as you were - but....what if is a fakeout?....could be the end of the move - some sharks faking out to get new fresh meat. A very common pattern.


Yes this is exactly my point for holding – you say fakeout pips to the upside if and when they push it higher which as you said happens very often.

b) you re-entry in a new direction possible fcr and everything...oh yeah that's cool....but what if is just a hiccup form the original move???? Could be stops getting hit (possible sharks involvement...yeah baby!)

Agreed again this is the original dilemma – reason why I wanted to give plenty of room to allow for possible fakeout downside – keep out of the heat and as you say let the market show its real hand.

This is what I do......always do in a case like this (yes my personal biased view and action)

I bail out brother......30 pips in my back are goood....yes.

OK I am noting this – it will be a newer style for me as I have been holding on for grim death previously but I will put it into action – ladies and gentleman the ‘Demi Pauline’ trade has landed = 30 pip banking on arriving at range.

Whatever the market do next, I 'll sit on my hands until I see a clear cut, quantifiable move. Then I play accordingly....there's no rush I already bagged 30 pips. I have the upper hand.

If I can quantify the move, I could get on a trade but there's something I do...always do...



I cut my load. Yes baby, I already have some $$$ in my pocket. Risking the same load is a big mistake...as I stated, I don't know what's next....not even if I could quantify a move , I could get on a a bull/bear trap( yes sharks induced traps). Many times I cut my load in half...but you can go as high as 3/4 and will be fine.



Ok again this is a very important point then, your cutting the risk as you know the likelihood of fakes and trouble ahead increases because price is in the range and to get out of it will take more than one go ?

(That’s what I do on ranges(other than playing ping pong)….)


My mentor told me many times "you're not a trader but a capital preservationist"

Yep I have also been told ‘If you don’t have any money left over you can’t go back to the table the next day” a logical result of ignoring your mentors quote.

Having complete control on my load plus having some $$$ on my side are big winners on a psychological level. Instead of chasing the market (like many traders do) I'll wait patiently for the swing.

OK – in practical terms does this mean that you are going to wait for the eventual breakout either way - a pull pack and continuation in order to form that swing – or I am misunderstanding?

(Whenever that happens, yes that’s what I do, with lighter loads. I don’t follow the breakout, I sit on my hands waiting for a pullback)

I suggest don't dwell into market signals. Instead, read their intentions. At the beginning of this thread, on my first chart posted, I stressed many times the importance of quantifying the initial move - impulse.

Yep OK

Evidently, this initial swing is coming from a period of consolidation. Somebody is taking one side of the market...sometimes in anger. This is where you want to be.

In the 2nd graph, the moves within the range are irrelevant. I can't read the market that way. I need a swing...a reasonable one.

Yes this was my point – it is very difficult to decide or determine what is an FCR what isn’t and what the real formations are there.

(I will reply on this at the bottom of the thread.)

A range really lies in the eyes of the beholder. Lack of interest, traders on hold to let the stops go, I mean.....I can make you a huge list. But there's no volume = light trading. That's for sure.

Sometimes I hold in ranges. It all depends. Pretty much all comes down on how much I have bagged already.

OK sincere thanks for your replies – sorry to have been a bit long with my questions, but as we said maybe everyone will find something of use. I will certainly start to close all or 50% where I can, if I detect that a range is forming

Read this very closely.

FC’rs are important. Most definitely. But if you trade any FCR outhere, you’re going to be one step close to the nut house. Besides, you can’t possibly sustain a healthy MM just trading anything you see.

About swings/moves etc.

At the beginning of the thread, I put a 40 pips swing as a benchmark. I started this thread because there was an incident with some other guy (at this point I won’t mention his name) and I simply felt compelled to give all this poor souls that were …what’s the word…screwed!, some guidance. In that light I have to use some “benchmarks” ( the 20 pip rule, 40 pips swing etc) so at least they have something solid to hold on.

Very much like training wheels.

Qualify a swing is a task by itself. My rule of thumb is not to rely only on # of pips but to look closely how this bar(s) are formed. A momentum play. See, you’re not the only one looking, there’s many more looking at the same charts.

Have you ever tell how fast the market moves at any particular level, especially FCR’S? Oh yeah, that’s what I am talking about.

Market going up/down in anger yes brother, this is where I want to be. If a pullback begins to fade, more often that not there will be a surge of traders at the other side – continuation of the initial impulse swing.

Pay attention to momentum - look how fast/slow the bars are formed...I swear you'll learn a lot doing that...

Knowing where resting orders are is another true advantage(one of my cornerstone edges), but we'll talk about that later on if I don't forget LOL....I am tired brother!!!!!

Hope it helps!

Hey Fib,

Thanks for your wonderful and kind helping for such a great value able work. I took first trade of buy on G/U. Please look it and see, is that was correct, is that pull back was deep? and on based on that should I take this trade or not?

thanks again in advance

Market goes in cycles. That's normal.

I don't think FX and the family is trading range - he knows that the volume is drying out an he just adjust himself accordingly. FX and the rest of the family are still trading swings and FCR'S There's not a hard and fast rule but if you just need to play along. Keeping an ear on the ground is just that - learning the market's language. As a trader , you need to be adaptable. I barely traded currencies in 2006. I simply didn't like what's been happening back then.

Another thing we need to look is how you're managing your trades....are you playing this game aggressively if so how aggressive is your play?? Or you're simply let the market take his course..I mean...all of this could affect your bottom line....

we need to know more, brother...

Guys..

I am going to check my skype account to see what's up...Today I am exahusted. Paulie was not the only one who drained me today. LOL The thing is tha I love to help people and it doesn't matter really....

I'll check tomorrow this skype issue. if not, we will look something else.

PD: I will not talk about the system II in that classroom. The system II stays here, so any concerns you have about this thread please address it here....thanks

ok..
isn't febs immediate answer (post 10813) to Pauls question, right on the money? but at the same time dosen't it sound familiar to you? dosen't sound like fxachilies preaches all along?..
maybe you say no.. and I expect that answer from some of you, only bcz I have too simplified it for you all in one play!!! without you knowing it.. either you say no or yes, you are doing it anyways.. lol.. if you have followed me and successfull people in here..
yes most everything that feb explained in regards to that post falls into one play and that is the.. #1 play..
it takes care of everything in one action.. Financially and Mentally..
I got a proof for it too... just look at your signatures..
Survive and PRESERVE..

ok.. watch the chart..
this my long trade that i showed earlier (yes another live trade displayed for u).. I exited with a prefect #1ply at 4889 and my reentery order was hit for more gain when it crossed again..(I was in the shower at the time.. sorry couldn't live play it for u this time).. the first play was good for +31 worth of $15,500 benjis.. (wish i was around all day, it would have been a field day for me).
just watch it and tell me.. if this isn't text book feb, text book #1, text book sticking to the plan.. if this isn't febs "capital preservationist" that he just mentiond today, again.. if this isn't febs get the profit in the bag and leave yourself free of mind for the next opportunity, great psychological level.
you name is in there.. this is all febs wisdom that i learned and tested and then incorprated in my trading philosophy that i have shared with u guys by simplifying it in one simple plan.. interpreted in words so u could follow.. not a easy task, you all know it..
however.. I was under impression that we all are on the same page by now as far the PLAN goes.. and the training wheels are off..
but now i see otherwise.. we see everything that feb has preach in the first 50 pages now he has to repeat the them again.. the only difference is that now its at post 10,000s and then was at post 500s.. and guess is bcz of why/who we are at post 10,000s above.. no thanks necessary, just a thought..
guys we/I have already heard the man's wisdom long time ago in the begining and I treated them like diamonds for mayself and build around it and came up with a plan that works wonderfully and i have proved it day in day out with millions of my live trades..
feb would witness to this.. that.. i never had the one on one and day to day mentorship from him.. he got ill shortly after i got involve with the thread and i was left with his golden posts and some of the answers and questions that we had back and fourth.. they were gold that he put in our hand in here, and I just dedicated myself and worked my ass off to crafted it into a jewerly that will worth me awhile perhaps life time.. and handed to u guys in the silver platter.

what else do you want??????? ... what else are u looking for?????.. you can spend you whole life looking for things... take one and master it and get on with it.. pleaseeeeeeeee..

My brothers... the training wheels are off.. its time to make money.. follow the PLAN.. i tell u this with absolute certainty..
I have made over million bucks in less than 5 months.. by just looking at fr****g charts.. which is a secondery way to make money in this business.. now off to bigger things.. my goal is to make million a month and some day maybe million a trade.. and the back bone of all this, is "THE PLAN"..
so if you want I and feb around for any longer then you got to move when we mone, got to get on with our speed.. do us a favor for your own sake and just exercise what we have put out there.. and be on your way to be a millionair..
this is the big boys thread.. u think guys that are gonna be in febs classes in january are not gonna be hand picked?.. hehehehehe.. think again!!!!





http://cdn.forexfactory.com/images/attach/gif.gif

i was about to go to bed and saw this post by my dear friend Dim which deserves a respond..

is BB the only trades that i take? or do I test the market with 3 other setups aswell? i sure hope u know what they are, otherwise ur comment here is such a nonesense.
the old 30-40 pips and the 20/20 rule were set by feb just for some sort of a guide as a training wheels.. he mentiond this mid way of thread and again today..
if market goes through cycle and i dont get swings then what should i do? sit for a year before one arrives!! or figure other shit and adjust.. what are u talking about?.. you answere urself in ur post atleast a couple of times.
yes i test the market out of the bracket not chopp monster!!.. and i play aggressive defense for the BB in the case of fakeout.. once i get couple of fakeouts and consolidation and the monster beast is evident then i sit on my hands (chopp range time).. your problem is that u can not detect the chopp monster bcz u dont test the market enough.. wot!!!!... ya u get it now. the benefit of not losing in the chopp monster goes to poeple that have coped with testing the market and play tight defense accordingly.. wot!!!!.. you might be still alittle puzzle i know.. anyhow i am not about to go to the details for you at this time.

your still struggling with two facts my friend.. one, that ur looking for clear cut rules and two, afraid of losing by testing the market..
first one does not exists in trading and second one does exist in a big way, you just got to accapt it but get a leash on it..

anyways bro, best of luck to you..

Hey fx

You got it wrong my friend. I am not talking about anything being valid or not valid I am talking about how do we play what I put up accodring to the rules of system II. What I was looking for was an answer to how to play my example 2. Cos I didnt know.

I am posting questions 2 u or anyone else not challenges my friend, I tell u why, cos I am confused - I am asking how to play the range -I am not a bells and whistle man, but I am able to follow rules once I have them, - Mr Feb has answered the questions, some things are clearer but in the end each trader has to play the price as he/she sees it.

Sorry to hear that.

My answer in bold

Hey Feb,

Thanks for your reply. Maybe you have a second or two to look at my further questions/replies ? I put your points in italics.

As you invited anyone to contribute,

No problems, thanks for your reply I appreciate it.

I am reading over and over and I perceive that your problem is what to do when the market goes in a range while you in a trade.

Indeed. I would qualify just one point though and this wasn’t supposed to be a trick or anything like that but the push I gave in the example was for 30 pips – reason being that originally it was said that 40 pips ‘can be considered as a runner’ and it is OK to bank etc… Now with 30 pips obviously this is less than the 40, and in fact the market is teasing us, because we are thinking ok, maybe she will push again or maybe I am going to leave pips on the table and my 30 will become 10 or something – there is some market tantalization going on.

A true cold hard fact is that ALL markets goes in a range due lack of volume. The disadvantage spot trades have is no way to quantify volume. My opinion, screw the volume, will only make your trade on your toes.

Ok this is an interesting point and I am sure that this is going to be another reply to bookmark for people from you. Can I ask another question relevant to why prices go into a range? I had always understood that prices go into range as the buyers and sellers agree on current prices, there is no one party who is unhappy to pay – buy or sell – at the price that is currently available. Is the resulting decrease in volume then a by product of the ranging price or the original reason for it?

Maybe an analogy from outside the market might work for us here – take the cash for clunkers thing they have recently been doing world wide – you get some cash for your old banger and then walk off with a new car – in simple terms they been knocking out cars at much below normal prices, with government sponsored incentives. What happened? Many people stepped up to the plate and took the deal, I did it myself. Volume increased because the deal was considered good and everyone got happy- for a time at least. In this case the volume at the old prices trickled off to very low historical levels but increased dramatically at the new ones.

For me the reason in this case then that the volume trickled to below average was that prices were considered very unattractive and to bring the buyers back in again price had to fall. So volume - if you could quantify it – could help in determining the end of the range – vol gets so low – by implication the market will have to adjust price wise in order to find good two way business.

(This theory about buyers and sellers in agreement is simply nonsense.
Ranges are simply lack of participation. That’s it. Simply look at volume in stocks, futures etc.Works like a clock. Everytime you see lack of volume, the market shrinks. There’s few exceptions on where the market surges in low volume and that is an artificial move based on something else. That’s very rare but it happens. Buyers and sellers need to see something of value before step into the plate. Nobody wants to be the first in line. This is where the big guns comes and push the market somewhere. That’s their job. Markets are simply a bunch of people working under a collective state of mind. Someone shouts “buy” “sell” and some people will follow. Some will fold(pullbacks) some will keep going )

++++++++++++++++++++++++ OK I am going to check this out on some charts and in real time thx +++++++++++++++


In my experience....all the time...the market is up for grabs when it gets on a range.

Ok this is an interesting point as well – just to clarify and ensure I understand you correctly you mean that it can go either way – price could be pushed sufficiently by larger enough players to draw in and create follow thru from the rest of the players ?

(exactly)


In that particular graphic you posted, assuming you bagged 30 pips already, and now with the fact that you know anything could happen on a range.....what would you do?

1) A B/E trade? Of course you're not gonna let that winner turn into a loser...

Agreed; I have to say that until now I have let trades run 15 to 20 pips and come right back down at me and taken BE – bit I would not accept 30.

2)Close the trade, take the bounty and look for a re-entry??


If you chose # 1 is not a big deal. You play defense and that's completely valid. There will be another bus somewhere down the road.

OK I find giving 30 back quite a bit though as I said above.

#2 is a bit tricky. See, as we already established that the market is up for grabs, anything goes. So, here's the deal.

a) you re-entry at the same direction as you were - but....what if is a fakeout?....could be the end of the move - some sharks faking out to get new fresh meat. A very common pattern.


Yes this is exactly my point for holding – you say fakeout pips to the upside if and when they push it higher which as you said happens very often.

b) you re-entry in a new direction possible fcr and everything...oh yeah that's cool....but what if is just a hiccup form the original move???? Could be stops getting hit (possible sharks involvement...yeah baby!)

Agreed again this is the original dilemma – reason why I wanted to give plenty of room to allow for possible fakeout downside – keep out of the heat and as you say let the market show its real hand.

This is what I do......always do in a case like this (yes my personal biased view and action)

I bail out brother......30 pips in my back are goood....yes.

OK I am noting this – it will be a newer style for me as I have been holding on for grim death previously but I will put it into action – ladies and gentleman the ‘Demi Pauline’ trade has landed = 30 pip banking on arriving at range.

Whatever the market do next, I 'll sit on my hands until I see a clear cut, quantifiable move. Then I play accordingly....there's no rush I already bagged 30 pips. I have the upper hand.

If I can quantify the move, I could get on a trade but there's something I do...always do...



I cut my load. Yes baby, I already have some $$$ in my pocket. Risking the same load is a big mistake...as I stated, I don't know what's next....not even if I could quantify a move , I could get on a a bull/bear trap( yes sharks induced traps). Many times I cut my load in half...but you can go as high as 3/4 and will be fine.



Ok again this is a very important point then, your cutting the risk as you know the likelihood of fakes and trouble ahead increases because price is in the range and to get out of it will take more than one go ?

(That’s what I do on ranges(other than playing ping pong)….)

++++++++++++++++++++ OK understood thx for the clarification ++++++++++


My mentor told me many times "you're not a trader but a capital preservationist"

Yep I have also been told ‘If you don’t have any money left over you can’t go back to the table the next day” a logical result of ignoring your mentors quote.

Having complete control on my load plus having some $$$ on my side are big winners on a psychological level. Instead of chasing the market (like many traders do) I'll wait patiently for the swing.

OK – in practical terms does this mean that you are going to wait for the eventual breakout either way - a pull pack and continuation in order to form that swing – or I am misunderstanding?

(Whenever that happens, yes that’s what I do, with lighter loads. I don’t follow the breakout, I sit on my hands waiting for a pullback)

++++++++++ OK clear for me how you play now in these situations ++++++++++++

I suggest don't dwell into market signals. Instead, read their intentions. At the beginning of this thread, on my first chart posted, I stressed many times the importance of quantifying the initial move - impulse.

Yep OK

Evidently, this initial swing is coming from a period of consolidation. Somebody is taking one side of the market...sometimes in anger. This is where you want to be.

In the 2nd graph, the moves within the range are irrelevant. I can't read the market that way. I need a swing...a reasonable one.

Yes this was my point – it is very difficult to decide or determine what is an FCR what isn’t and what the real formations are there.

(I will reply on this at the bottom of the thread.)

A range really lies in the eyes of the beholder. Lack of interest, traders on hold to let the stops go, I mean.....I can make you a huge list. But there's no volume = light trading. That's for sure.

Sometimes I hold in ranges. It all depends. Pretty much all comes down on how much I have bagged already.

OK sincere thanks for your replies – sorry to have been a bit long with my questions, but as we said maybe everyone will find something of use. I will certainly start to close all or 50% where I can, if I detect that a range is forming

Read this very closely.

FC’rs are important. Most definitely. But if you trade any FCR outhere, you’re going to be one step close to the nut house. Besides, you can’t possibly sustain a healthy MM just trading anything you see

About swings/moves etc.

At the beginning of the thread, I put a 40 pips swing as a benchmark. I started this thread because there was an incident with some other guy (at this point I won’t mention his name) and I simply felt compelled to give all this poor souls that were …what’s the word…screwed!, some guidance. In that light I have to use some “benchmarks” ( the 20 pip rule, 40 pips swing etc) so at least they have something solid to hold on.
Very much like training wheels.

Qualify a swing is a task by itself. My rule of thumb is not to rely only on # of pips but to look closely how this bar(s) are formed. A momentum play. See, you’re not the only one looking, there’s many more looking at the same charts.

+++++++++++++++++ alright again I am going to study charts to try and qualify this based on what you describe +++++++++++

Have you ever tell how fast the market moves at any particular level, especially FCR’S? Oh yeah, that’s what I am talking about.

Market going up/down in anger yes brother, this is where I want to be. If a pullback begins to fade, more often that not there will be a surge of traders at the other side – continuation of the initial impulse swing.

Pay attention to momentum - look how fast/slow the bars are formed...I swear you'll learn a lot doing that...

++++++++++++++++ OK going to do this on the charts ++++++++++

Knowing where resting orders are is another true advantage(one of my cornerstone edges), but we'll talk about that later on if I don't forget LOL....I am tired brother!!!!!

Hope it helps!

++++++++++++++++++++ It does help and I want to thank you sincerely – I hope the questions did not fall into the poor souls category for you +++++++++