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100% Win Math Grid Ea

  • #741
  • Nov 6, 2009 10:55am Nov 6, 2009 10:55am
MagicChance, if perhaps you could give us an example of how a maximum of 12 trades could end in profit then your ideas may be implemented. As you can see, most of us disagree with you!

The numerous pending orders need to be opened to compensate for when price moves the wrong way upon other orders being triggered.

I'll think about it more, but if you are right then yes, I will go live tomorrow too! (even though it's saturday!) The biggest problem I see when backtesting for any period of time is not account blow up, but losses due to the server limiting the number of pending/open orders to 200.
  • #742
  • Nov 6, 2009 10:57am Nov 6, 2009 10:57am
Good news for this EA if you open a Classic account as here is the response I got from Alpari:

"Good morning,

We have two types of accounts a Micro and a Classic.

The micro has a limit of 2 open lots. This can be broken down in to 200 x 0.01 lots. So in theory you can have 200 trades but they cannot exceed 2 lots.

The Classic account doesn’t have this limit. You can trade as much as your free equity allows."


  • #743
  • Nov 6, 2009 11:21am Nov 6, 2009 11:21am
Hey Everyone,

Here is the latest version of vGrid. I didn't get as many hours on it as I would like but I think it works on all pairs. Anyway, if anyone does think they find a bug, let me know with as much info as possible (Pair, Time, Lotsize, increment, levels, etc.

Viper

P.S. I got caught in a Death Trade this morning in my demo account. Exceeded the max number of open and pending orders. I will still be OK if it ends up going in the right direction :-) In the mean time, I can't open any more pending orders :-(
Attached File(s)
File Type: mq4 ViperGridEA_Version2.4.mq4   59 KB | 1,904 downloads
  • #744
  • Nov 6, 2009 11:26am Nov 6, 2009 11:26am
Thanks for another upgrade, Viper! Nice to have someone willing to take the time to program code.

So, you see what I am talking about with respect to the limited orders - I think this is more likely than the margincall if trading .01 lots per 10k account.

I am looking into MagicChance's suggestion and he may be onto something....I'm in the middle of working out the logic right now and will post my thoughts/results later.
  • #745
  • Nov 6, 2009 12:05pm Nov 6, 2009 12:05pm
We have two types of accounts a Micro and a Classic.

The micro has a limit of 2 open lots. This can be broken down in to 200 x 0.01 lots. So in theory you can have 200 trades but they cannot exceed 2 lots.

The Classic account doesn’t have this limit. You can trade as much as your free equity allows."


[/quote]

I see Minimum trade size is 0.10 lot for a Classic and 0.01 for the Micro.
What size account would you need to handle this EA for each type of account for each pair traded?
I see the increment is 0.01 for both.
Does that mean with the Classic I start at 0.10 lot but can increment to 0.11?
If so will the EA work this way?

Thanks
Gene
  • #746
  • Nov 6, 2009 12:10pm Nov 6, 2009 12:10pm
Quoting optojay
Thanks for another upgrade, Viper! Nice to have someone willing to take the time to program code.

So, you see what I am talking about with respect to the limited orders - I think this is more likely than the margincall if trading .01 lots per 10k account.

I am looking into MagicChance's suggestion and he may be onto something....I'm in the middle of working out the logic right now and will post my thoughts/results later.
I can change the low/high water marks to be total lotsize or total open position count instead of percent equity (or it can use either or neither depending on which is set) That is actually a fairly simple addition. I was thinking this was going to be my last single grid version but I can do one more... :-)

Any limits you put on the grid will result in some wins and some losses instead of the always win we have now (if you don't have margin limits or broker limits). But if it turns out that we still win more than we lose some might prefer that approach.

Live well, Trade well
Viper
  • #747
  • Nov 6, 2009 12:17pm Nov 6, 2009 12:17pm
Quoting tradingviper
I can change the low/high water marks to be total lotsize or total open position count instead of percent equity (or it can use either or neither depending on which is set) That is actually a fairly simple addition. I was thinking this was going to be my last single grid version but I can do one more... :-)

Any limits you put on the grid will result in some wins and some losses instead of the always win we have now (if you don't have margin limits or broker limits). But if it turns out that we still win more than we lose some might prefer that...

Viper, hang on a bit before making the last revision! Limiting the max trades will only produce more losses. Might as well let the trade server limit the trades, not the EA.

I think what we are suggesting is a change to the logic of the grid EA so that it still has a profit with every "set", but not open so many pending orders. I have run a couple examples and MagicChance might be right in that we may only need 12 orders to complete a 3-level grid, no matter how price moves. Like I said, let me think about it more and I'll get back to you.
  • #748
  • Nov 6, 2009 1:32pm Nov 6, 2009 1:32pm
Thanks guys for taking the time to look into my suggestion.

Let me state as strongly as I can that my mods to the current setup will translate to zero losses. ZERO. On wildly ranging days like yesterday and today the most pips you would pull out per cycle is 15, but at least you would never have to face a margin call. Not ever! And while fifteen pips isn't so much, it's only based on a worse case scenario (aka death trades) such as the type we are facing right now. In other words, if you follow my guidelines the so-called "death trade" ceases to exist and is replaced by a 15-pip win! How cool is that?

Again, with my mods you will never lose another trade, and the DD will be FAR less that anything you are facing today. Why would we not want to do this????
" Average traders look to the left, great traders look to the right."
  • #749
  • Nov 6, 2009 2:51pm Nov 6, 2009 2:51pm
Quoting magicchance
Thanks guys for taking the time to look into my suggestion.

Let me state as strongly as I can that my mods to the current setup will translate to zero losses. ZERO. On wildly ranging days like yesterday and today the most pips you would pull out per cycle is 15, but at least you would never have to face a margin call. Not ever! And while fifteen pips isn't so much, it's only based on a worse case scenario (aka death trades) such as the type we are facing right now. In other words, if you follow my guidelines the so-called "death trade" ceases...
Sounds like something to try, hope TradingViper can code it in so we can give it a try.

Gene
  • #750
  • Nov 6, 2009 4:59pm Nov 6, 2009 4:59pm
MagicChance, I have tried a few scenarios with the mods that you are suggesting and it doesn't work, unfortunately. You suggested only one order be opened per level of the grid and that there is no point in opening multiple orders if more crosses of a particular level take place.

Take a browse through the attachment below (Excel file) for the scenarios using 2 increments levels. There are comment windows on Sheet1 to explain my notation, but it should be self-explanatory. Any questions, please ask.

Sheet1 is successful - this simulates ranging between level 1 and then a TP is hit.
Sheet2 is successful - this simulates going up to level 2, then reversing to hit a TP.
Sheet 3 is unsuccessful (more pending orders need to be opened at each cross) - this simulates ranging between level 2 and then a TP is hit.


MagicChance, please explain how your mods will be profitable, as I have given an example of how it will end in failure.
Attached File(s)
File Type: xls grid.xls   26 KB | 822 downloads
  • #751
  • Nov 6, 2009 5:21pm Nov 6, 2009 5:21pm
Sorry Magicchance but it wont work. Do the math and you will see. Better yet, if you can do it on an excel spreadsheet, then we can show you why it won't work.

How do you expect to win or breakeven when 1 side is more weighted than the other, then price reverses to hit the other TP/SL area. Even if both sides are equally weighted and you trade only 1 level, your loss will be half of the total open lots multiplied by the buy/sell level opening distance.

You can't win without it continuously opening more orders as each level is hit.

Even if you reduced the lot size opening each hit, you would need to extend the TP levels further out each time for it to be profitable (another non-profitable way).


Somehow if i am completely misinterpreting you and you can visually prove your right.... I will be the 1st to appologise.
Luck is where preparation meets opportunity.......
  • #752
  • Nov 6, 2009 6:43pm Nov 6, 2009 6:43pm
Ozzie, check out my excel spreadsheet above. I think it sums it up well to show that it won't work.
  • #753
  • Nov 6, 2009 7:02pm Nov 6, 2009 7:02pm
Quoting tradingviper
Hey Everyone,

Here is the latest version of vGrid.

Thanks.
bull in a china shop
  • #754
  • Nov 6, 2009 7:33pm Nov 6, 2009 7:33pm
Quoting tradingviper
When the program decides whether it needs to buy or sell, it calls a method called checkPendingProfit() (checkProfits() in original). If the profit it will achieve at TP is less than the goal (2*increment) it goes into a buy/sell loop. The loop says start at the max increment down to one. After each buy/sell it uses an equation to see if the new purchase will put the profit at TP over the target. If it does, it ends the loop right there, it does NOt continue through all levels.

.....I hope that answers your question without adding to the confusion......

Viper, in the orignal settings, tp is calculated at 4*increment (if you have 3 levels). When we are using the extend tp we add say 5 pips to that.

Is the profit formula using the extended tp level to determine profitability, or is it using the original tp level to determine profitability?

(Is my profit going to be more because i extended the tp, or is my profit going to be the same, but the more i extend tp the less positions the ea will open (because we're allowing the price to travel further to hit tp))
bull in a china shop
  • #755
  • Nov 6, 2009 11:02pm Nov 6, 2009 11:02pm
Let me answer a question with a question:

If the EA will clear a profit after 100 open trades finally coming to a close, why then won't it come to a profitable close after just 10 open trades closing? Put another way, doesn't anyone here ever see a profit when the EA closes on just 7 or 8 open orders?

The answer is obvious, right? We don't wait for 100 or more trades to open before we anticipate taking profit using this EA, which means profit can come to us at any time, so long as price finally crosses one of the red lines.

Once you get your head around this one simple piece of logic it will all come into focus.

One last thing. I am NOT suggesting that this become the 'new norm' for this thread. This is how I would trade this EA live, but I would never suggest that anyone else should follow in my footsteps. This is why I am only asking Tradingviper to add my mods in as an OPTION, NOT as a rule. If you really want your EA to open 100 live trades and go into heavy DD, then you should do exactly that; I won't try and stop you. But please don't try and stop me either.
" Average traders look to the left, great traders look to the right."
  • #756
  • Edited 2:20am Nov 7, 2009 1:09am | Edited 2:20am
Quoting magicchance
Let me answer a question with a question:

If the EA will clear a profit after 100 open trades finally coming to a close, why then won't it come to a profitable close after just 10 open trades closing? Put another way, doesn't anyone here ever see a profit when the EA closes on just 7 or 8 open orders?

The answer is obvious, right? We don't wait for 100 or more trades to open before we anticipate taking profit using this EA, which means profit can come to us at any time, so long as price finally crosses one of the red lines.

Once you get your...
Hi Magicchance,
I don't think any one wants to wait for 100 orders to open before closing in profit, unfortunately that’s the only way you will be guaranty a profit when the price finally crosses the red lines. Before the price crosses the final red line, it will bounce many times between the two exit points, if you have an even # of orders on each side then the set will not close in profit. Yes some times you can get a profit with only 6 orders, but only if the price moved in one direction from the starting point. I know this have been explained before, but I had some extra free time and just wanted to add to it. Having said all this, I do get some of your point, we don't have to wait for the final TP to get hit to close for a profit and yes many times the set goes into a small profit and bounce back to the other side before hitting the target and some times going into DD for a while. I asked for a Break even to be added a while back (post 548) to take care of this, but no one seams to like the idea, so I'm using a trade manager EA for it and is working fine for me so far, so maybe you will have to find a way to implement your Mod on your own. I do not think it will be profitable but if it works for you go for it.
  • #757
  • Nov 7, 2009 1:32am Nov 7, 2009 1:32am
I personally have tried closing early with any profit (even more than just $1) but the account still blows up. I have tried multiple levels and incriments but the inevitable still happens.

Anyways, thats just me.... this is how you do it.



In the code, under 'High-Water mark' area, you will see a line of code:

if( tradeProfit > 1 )


Just copy and paste the code directly above the '// Check high-water mark' line. Then add 'endSession(): directly after like so:

if( tradeProfit > 1 ) endSession();
// Check high-water mark


The above will close any set if it is profitable by more than $1.

Good luck:


Magicchance hasn't obviously read my response and not looked into the math himself. Have tried to explain it but what can i do. I thought the math would be obvious especially if you look to see how the EA works.

All he has to do is put it on paper and see for himself. As i stated before, put it in an excel spreadsheet so we can explain exactly why it won't work.
Luck is where preparation meets opportunity.......
  • #758
  • Nov 7, 2009 9:28am Nov 7, 2009 9:28am
Quoting magicchance
Let me answer a question with a question:

If the EA will clear a profit after 100 open trades finally coming to a close, why then won't it come to a profitable close after just 10 open trades closing? Put another way, doesn't anyone here ever see a profit when the EA closes on just 7 or 8 open orders?

The answer is obvious, right? We don't wait for 100 or more trades to open before we anticipate taking profit using this EA, which means profit can come to us at any time, so long as price finally crosses one of the red lines.

Once you get your...

MC, you need to look at sheet3 of my attachment "grid.xls" a few posts back. Then you will understand why your mods wouldn't work. The excel spreadsheet shows that you would get more losses if you only open one order per cross of a level. Please think about it.

Besides, the EA already has what you are looking for! There is a "maxlots" setting in the EA. If you are trading .01 lots and want a maximum of 12 trades, set this maxlots value at .12. Then you will see that your idea is not going to work.

Viper/Ozzie, I think a useful piece of code may be to close the set when a profit of one increment is acheived. I think this is what MC is trying to suggest and it would help.

Perhaps the code would be something like:

if( tradeProfit > increment ) endSession();
// Check high-water mark


THANKS!
  • #759
  • Nov 7, 2009 9:39am Nov 7, 2009 9:39am
Quoting seller9
Hi Guys
Well I have been running VGrid for 1 week now and here are the results.
Profit = 11%
35 winning trades, 5 losing trades.
Floating P/L = -13.28
Open Trades = 2 sell, 6 buy
Working Orders = 33 sell stop
Remove the .txt from the file to open.

Attachment
Settings please?
You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
  • #760
  • Nov 7, 2009 10:22am Nov 7, 2009 10:22am
Viper/Ozzie, I think a useful piece of code may be to close the set when a profit of one increment is acheived. I think this is what MC is trying to suggest and it would help.

Perhaps the code would be something like:

if( tradeProfit > increment ) endSession();
// Check high-water mark


THANKS![/quote]


All you have to do is change the numeric value to whatever you want

ie:

if( tradeProfit > 0.1) endSession();

if( tradeProfit > 5) endSession();

if( tradeProfit > 100 ) endSession();


For example:

If your using an increment of 10, and 0.1 lots.... then your tradeProfit would be 10 --- 10 (increment) * 0.1 (1$) => $10.
Luck is where preparation meets opportunity.......
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