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Trade Using VSA (Volume Spread Analysis)

  • #3,501
  • Sep 27, 2009 11:48pm Sep 27, 2009 11:48pm
Hello all. Here is a current chart of the EURUSD 5M chart showing some VSA principles in action along with WRB analysis.

Where a trader will decide to enter, either aggressively or more conservatively will depend on personal preference and risk tolerance. What really matter is that VSA principles and setups shows up again and again every week in the forex market.

Agreed that using the Esignal composite forex feed is more helpful in getting a better read of the volume associated to each candle.

Being able to spot high probability VSA setups in real-time do require lots of real-time screen time looking for those setups.

After having tried so many methods for different years, i do really have found my "niche" using VSA and WRB analysis (as HiddenGap) since 2007 and will continue using it.

More people post charts and their views of the market using VSA, more it enrich others traders knowledge of the application of VSA principles in action.

As the VSA principles are immuable trading principles, I am a strong advocate that no matter how many people using it, it will not change it usefulness.

Hope it help.

Sincerely

Shreem

EDIT: This chart shows Ninja Trader using Esignal composite forex feed of GTIS. Also, got a really nice VSA indicator that I bought and that i found really useful depicting volume and price action.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: $EURUSD 28_09_2009 (5 Min).jpg Size: 118 KB
  • #3,502
  • Sep 28, 2009 12:21am Sep 28, 2009 12:21am
Quoting HiddenGap
VSA teaches us to be mindful of the news. The BBs use the news to position themselves against the herd. The news usually generates high volume and the BBs need to be active when volume is high, so they don't push price up or down against themselves.
HG,

thank you for this post! This helps a lot to have a sounder approach to the news events. It is not bad to avoid trading around these times but why not to use it to our advantage?

Great Work!
Kind Regards zol
  • #3,503
  • Sep 28, 2009 12:41am Sep 28, 2009 12:41am
Quoting Fx chartist
The most ridiculous jargon I heard about this methodology is the phrase " the market don't like up bar or down bar on high volume......"

Perhaps, it's wise to ignore the Head and shoulder pattern in the Pound as there is a chance that the "smart money" would "mark up" it to the upside after seeing too many trader on FF positioning in this pattern.
I wonder how prudent or helpful it is to negatively criticize (ridicule?) a methodology and some made up terms and expressions to ease using and understanding of the method.

Nevertheless, please let us know when you come out with a methodology half as affective and useful as this one. I would be open minded and grateful for one more potentially helpful tool, furthermore, I would appreciate and admire your efforts and generosity to help others to learn and develop, which is, doubtless, a clear intention of yours.

Yours Sincerely

Z
Kind Regards zol
  • #3,504
  • Sep 28, 2009 1:50am Sep 28, 2009 1:50am
Quoting zoli
I wonder how prudent or helpful it is to negatively criticize (ridicule?) a methodology and some made up terms and expressions to ease using and understanding of the method.

Nevertheless, please let us know when you come out with a methodology half as affective and useful as this one. I would be open minded and grateful for one more potentially helpful tool, furthermore, I would appreciate and admire your efforts and generosity to help others to learn and develop, which is, doubtless, a clear intention of yours.

Yours Sincerely

Z
just disregard him. just a newbie trying to find his way, which- with that attitude might last decades- and question things he knows nothing about in a offending way we have seen many of them with a high rate of failure
  • #3,505
  • Sep 28, 2009 2:12am Sep 28, 2009 2:12am
  •  Yuppie
  • Joined Jun 2007 | Status: ̿ ̿ ̿̿'̿̿\̵͇̿̿\=(•̪●)=/̵͇̿̿/'̿̿ ̿ | 2,727 Posts
DAX.

3-min.


Magnus


NOTE: Horizontal line is **75.00 level/area. This level/area and **25.00 on any instrument - watch them!
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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  • #3,506
  • Sep 28, 2009 2:19am Sep 28, 2009 2:19am
Quoting Dr.Geppynius
just disregard him. just a newbie trying to find his way, which- with that attitude might last decades- and question things he knows nothing about in a offending way we have seen many of them with a high rate of failure
Right. The markets did not give me clear enough action (to my perception) to do anything in recent 30 minutes, so I spent my time posting. I should study instead!
Kind Regards zol
  • #3,507
  • Sep 28, 2009 2:33am Sep 28, 2009 2:33am
Quoting Yuppie
DAX.

3-min.


Magnus


NOTE: Horizontal line is **75.00 level/area. This level/area and **25.00 on any instrument - watch them!
Magnus,

always the nice set ups from you! Here is one another, not as nice though -for me.
There are 2 Test identified here and followed buy up move. The reason not taking either: far background and sluggish V action on the up move. True, it is Monday and little participation. This seems to be a corrective move with little power in it and the background on 1H is really a big down move so for me no good potential for a nice up move just yet. It may go anyway.

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: VSA_139.gif Size: 27 KB
Kind Regards zol
  • #3,508
  • Sep 28, 2009 3:02am Sep 28, 2009 3:02am
Quoting emios
This thread needs to be closed. People can make copies of it, there is more than enough information that can be gleaned from this and the "Undeclared Secrets" ebook for people to be able to trade successfully.

I'm not saying this to deingrate anyone's hard work, I think that HiddenGap's and malcomb14's posts are spot on the money. We now have to look after ourselves, and make sure that this method is not jeapodised. For live trades, people can use the chatroom.
If you don't like it don't read it, don't impose your beliefs on others. I enjoy Hiddengap's posts and also malcomb14's and many others and want them to continue as long as they are willing to.
  • #3,509
  • Sep 28, 2009 3:26am Sep 28, 2009 3:26am
Quoting Dr.Geppynius
you did not get it.
nobody cares about those indicator based or other technicals systems since they do not explain anything and just try to add probabilites to your side. even tough some seem to do good with them.
we talk about chart/ supply&demand reading and therefore beeing pretty close to true reaosns for movements and trying to track the players that matter!

This whole argument is stupid.

VSA / Wyckoff has been aoround for decades.

There is a course at San Francisco university where this is taught,
there are numerous books that espouse some of the teaching here.

VSA is an approach not a system and if you were to lay all the VSA'ers end to end you would never reach a conclusion, because everyone does it differently,

The brokers are unlikely to mess with the volume information as mostly they are neutral, and where you are competing with them use another broker.
he Forex market is vast and difficult to manipulate.
if you don't want to rely on a brokers feed use esignal etc.

You could also switch to the exchange traded forex futures with largely the same effect.

Traders already do all they can to obfuscate volume because volume is important to many trading ideas

Just listening to these threads shows that the vast majority don't make money from VSA and likely never will. if someone posted an indicator that encapsulated the whole concept and it worked, then it might be a different matter, but VSA is monitoring human psychology, supply and demand and market manipulation, and relies ultimately on individual judgement.

This discussion group will do no harm whatsoever, because what you should be learning is judgement, not worrying about the detail of whether we have 100 or 110 contracts. You should be using the ideas as a guide to the market, to sense the supply / demand pressures, its impossible to hide them totally, and the traders try to do that anyway.

"we talk about chart/ supply&demand reading and therefore beeing pretty close to true reaosns for movements and trying to track the players that matter!"

Well, you will fail then. VSA is about supply and demand, not trying to understand what individual traders are doing. Its very much about what Wyckoff called the composite trader, and that is all about supply and demand.
Manipulation may well happen, but it is reflected in supply and demand. there is nothing magical about it, nothing secret, its well known anyway. And the reason it works is because you can always see the supply demand foot prints.

What will change is specific indicators of supply and demand, especially at turning points. If you always look for a pinbar type candle with high volume, then the pros will see this, not because you discuss it but because they see the stops placed and the supply / demand resulting from your actions. It will only show if enough people are doing it. But VSA is not about such simple patterns, these are just useful tools, that you need to monitor and adapt.

Thomas bulkowski has done some recent research that shows that the classic patterns he uses and espouses are not working so well. Tod Kreuger has done the same. This has happened not because Bulkowski wrote books (the patterns and their usage have been known for decades) but because supply and demand impacts them, and the pros trade appropriately. Kreuger has also shown, albeit anecdotally, that the patterns are actually still working, but differently - ie frequently the failed breakouts are resurrected some bars later. This you can use the patterns but understand the entries may need altering.

Those patterns like the VSA ones will continue to work in some way and for the same reasons - they reflect trader psychology and supply and demand.

So, to summarise. This thread will not destroy VSA because VSA is based on judgement and assessing supply and demand. Specific indicators will fail more often not because some mythical master manipulator is watching you like big brother but because increasing numbers of users will alter the demand supply picture.

So just enjoy this wonderful discussion thread and can the nonsense.
  • #3,510
  • Sep 28, 2009 3:44am Sep 28, 2009 3:44am
Crabbydog - Are You saying all this reply like:... But VSA is not about such simple patterns, these are just useful tools,
that you need to monitor and adapt.... etc.. to Dr. Gep ?

lol

Best,
Tom




Quoting crabbydog
This whole argument is stupid....
  • #3,511
  • Sep 28, 2009 3:46am Sep 28, 2009 3:46am
Well said Shreem, agree 100%

Quoting shreem
Hello, here is a post I have made elswhere. About the discussion of closing this thread out, I do not think closing it would be a good idea.

Even if brokers or more people look at VSA, the reality will not change. Alot of people will try to use it and profit from it and most will failed. The ones who will succeed will succeed because they are passionate about it.

I do not beleive because VSA will become more and more well known that it will stop work. The principles behind VSA are such that nothing will change them. Market manipulation...
  • #3,512
  • Sep 28, 2009 3:57am Sep 28, 2009 3:57am
I for one, follow this thread. I use methods that are similar to that of HG, so I certainly am not unhappy with this thread in that sense. Some people have already noticed that the volume provided with mt4 on the ibfx platform has been tampered with. That was our free platform of choice. No many people have no choice but to spend money on an expensive feed, like esignal.

I think that the topic should be continued, but in a more secure environment, such as in the chatroom.
  • #3,513
  • Sep 28, 2009 4:16am Sep 28, 2009 4:16am
  •  Yuppie
  • Joined Jun 2007 | Status: ̿ ̿ ̿̿'̿̿\̵͇̿̿\=(•̪●)=/̵͇̿̿/'̿̿ ̿ | 2,727 Posts
Get some perspective here...

Talk of a more 'secure environment', etc for VSA... wtf??

I mean really, some people in this thread are suffering from severe delusions of grandeur in themselves, their methods, and the VSA information that they have suddenly had "access" to.

Get on with learning VSA, or whatever it is you're learning, and stop wasting your time with these very childish notions of the 'Big Boys' reading this thread (or any other thread, or any other forum, etc).


*rant over*


Magnus
  • #3,514
  • Sep 28, 2009 4:43am Sep 28, 2009 4:43am
On candle, with number 1 i went long.

That downbar ( NR2) Should be my exit if i was long ?

Candle, number 2, was on higher vol then all previus up bars and it also closed lower than upbar before it.

Yes.. i know, in background was high vol up bar closing of the highs.. BUT i was not sure was it enough high vol to get price back...


Thanks for comments.

Best,
Tom
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: tom pa pattern.gif Size: 17 KB
  • #3,515
  • Sep 28, 2009 5:06am Sep 28, 2009 5:06am
Quoting crabbydog
This whole argument is stupid....
lol- i think you are talking to the wrong person here in trying to explain vsa and i am also the wrong to pick for your offense. you do not seem to have gotten the game of marketmaking, otherwise you would not say BS like brokers are neutral since they cannot be and are just mirroring the markets.

if you had a clue you'd know that i am using esignal since years and also been propagating it. so do some homework before trying to profile yourself and posting stuff from the tradeguider material which most of the people here already know.

you know how tick volume works, how it is collected and how easy 3 ticks could be made to one by filtering? nope.


and yes, we track the players that matter, call it 1 composite trader like wyckoff said or a sum of traders with deep pockets, or like you should know the "consensus of opinion"!
  • #3,516
  • Sep 28, 2009 5:07am Sep 28, 2009 5:07am
Quoting tfflyer
On candle, with number 1 i went long.

That downbar ( NR2) Should be my exit if i was long ?

Candle, number 2, was on higher vol then all previus up bars and it also closed lower than upbar before it.

Yes.. i know, in background was high vol up bar closing of the highs.. BUT i was not sure was it enough high vol to get price back...


Thanks for comments.

Best,
Tom
Hi Tom,

Sometimes it helps if you scale out a bit.
You were going long right before level 1.5915-ish, previous support level where buying took place and now potential resistance for higher prices. Looking at the background on the bigger TF we know that the trend is rather down. These things correct sure, but we already had 50% correction of the last big down fall. Risky to go contra long around 50% level.
The price action looks like a girlfriend without boyfriend, no one to take out her for dinner. Drifting upwards and not determined much at the moment.

True, those pips are real pips, with practice we may get them in future

Just my thought...

PS: please ignore the mess on my charts

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: VSA_140.gif Size: 25 KB
Kind Regards zol
  • #3,517
  • Sep 28, 2009 5:12am Sep 28, 2009 5:12am
Quoting Yuppie
Get some perspective here...

Talk of a more 'secure environment', etc for VSA... wtf??

I mean really, some people in this thread are suffering from severe delusions of grandeur in themselves, their methods, and the VSA information that they have suddenly had "access" to.

Get on with learning VSA, or whatever it is you're learning, and stop wasting your time with these very childish notions of the 'Big Boys' reading this thread (or any other thread, or any other forum, etc).


*rant over*

Magnus
you got it magnus

post of no content and the points you are adressing to me are pretty much delusional and wrong.
  • #3,518
  • Sep 28, 2009 5:16am Sep 28, 2009 5:16am
Zoli, thanks for comments.
Yes, i know we was at 50 ret and down trend.. but that not the question.

Question was about close of the long trade and within cooroleation to high vol up bar in bacground

Thanks.

Best,
Tom
  • #3,519
  • Sep 28, 2009 5:31am Sep 28, 2009 5:31am
Quoting tfflyer
Zoli, thanks for comments.
Yes, i know we was at 50 ret and down trend.. but that not the question.

Question was about close of the long trade and within cooroleation to high vol up bar in bacground

Thanks.

Best,
Tom
see your screenshot attached.
max you should check here is for shortterm ss
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: 28.09.png Size: 31 KB
  • #3,520
  • Edited 6:06am Sep 28, 2009 5:36am | Edited 6:06am
Thank You DR.G for comments.

Those answers answers my question.

Edited:
Just wanted to ask - which would be entry candle for short ? Last/third upbar open OR short would be as soon as this last upbar - third upbar low is broken ?
Thanks

Best,
Tom

Quoting Dr.Geppynius
see your screenshot attached.
max you should check here is for shortterm ss
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