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The System II (Yes with irony)

  • #7,341
  • Sep 25, 2009 2:47pm Sep 25, 2009 2:47pm
Quoting fxachilies
sorry Paul for jumping in here..
Royston,
its called expectancy.. price must go your way in a reasonable.. timetable, speed and rhythm.. it an a Art.. no set rules.. and don't worship anything.. #1&2 is just a guide..
once you get enough trade practises and thousends of hours of screen time under your belt, then you can distinguish the difference between playing which one more aggressively and which one to give more breating room..
This is not a system..
this is not based on x y z to happen in a strickt set of rules and structure to get...
Naked AND crutchless.... the mind boggles!!!!!!!!!!!!
$urvive, Pre$erve & RESPECT THE TEACHER
  • #7,342
  • Sep 25, 2009 3:50pm Sep 25, 2009 3:50pm
[quote=moneda;3091096]Paul,

I took a shower and feel a bit re-energized so I wanted to comment on your trades... sort of a dialog...hopefully it will benefit both of us and the rest of the gang:

Quoting PaulLangham
Hi All,

Here are my trades for today.

Trade 1 - I played this one OK according to plan coming out on the FCR which had formed. +15
I would have exited after the failed attempt of price(.4764) to surpass the HH(.47680). With 49+pips in the bag I would have protected and not let it go down too much.
...
Hi Moneda,

As promised and now that it has all quietened down a bit I have had a chance to look at your ideas:

Trade 1 - Yes you are right in that there plenty of pips I left on the table. In fact when I am trading I don`t really even think of pips or profit, his is a hang over from another life pre the thread, but maybe you have highlighted something for me. Likewise re the actual place where I exited, I think this trade was wuite like today`s short in that it alos retraces without forming an FCR from which you could refernce a close or close and reverse position.

Trade 2 - This is alos a good point and I think what has happened here is that I am joing the party rather late on, maybe would have been better to get on baord higher up with a more aggressive reversal trade.

Trade 3 - Similar to my first answer, no real recognition of +pips whilst "in flight"

Trade 4 - Think I was getting into protect profits mode here.

Trade 5 - As written.
Trade 6 - Nice trade for me indeed.

Anyway still plenty of work to do for me, timing entries and exits.

Thanks for the comments anyway

Have a good weekend
Survive and Preserve
  • #7,343
  • Sep 25, 2009 3:58pm Sep 25, 2009 3:58pm
Quoting fxachilies


PS) I want to give a shout-out to my buddy Mr.Paul L for his extra extra help to all.. especially the very newbies.. and his diligence way of running the thread up on my request. Thank you verymuch Paul.
and who can forget dear Moneda.. thank you aswell..
round of applause .. you two rocked..
Thanks FX, hope the party was good.

I think everyone did very well today , the European session wasn`t the easiets but we made some PM`s in the New York session.

It was good fun, we had a laugh during a few moments
Survive and Preserve
  • #7,344
  • Sep 25, 2009 7:23pm Sep 25, 2009 7:23pm
Hello Guys, first of all i want to thank you very very much for keeping this wonderfull thread alive!!! My english is not the best, so excuse me please for misspelling

To my person, i´m trading for more than 1 year in the forex market. I tried many different trading-systems with billons of funny indicators, like MACD, MA´s, Bollingr Bands, Stochastic and read hundrets of posts on ForexFactory
about fib levels, pivots, S+R lines and so on. I got a nice overview of the forex market but the only "system" that worked and still working for me is this one!!! I asked myself allways, what is an indicator? It tells you the direction were the price want to move? Why? How can this be? Is this the holy grail? I had no success with all this lagging indicators, which are moving like little bitch*s up and down...they follow the price, thats all (thats my mind). I think that is the reason why i had no success with them !? I´m looking sometimes at divergences, thats why i have the RSI in my attachment. But no need to tell more about it in this thread!

I started last year trading as a real newbie with a live account, i deposit 1250Euro and doubled it in only 3 days with feb´s Breakout Strategy!!! This is not a Joke! I had no money management, i risked 20-25% of my money on every trade. Was it my experience? No!!! I think not, it was stupid, very stupid. It had luck, because the days i traded live was very good days (trendy) price moved only in one direction! I couldnt loose, and i was aware of it. After that i returned my money back (1250) and let the other half lay in my fxpro account. I was scared of trading live, i thought i get a heart attack in these 3 days so i decided to get back to my demo account with mimi lots until i get better. I made the same mistakes which most newbies do. I saw only the dollars...my brain was out of order!

Some days later, i tried to trade once again with feb´s style, but i lost
(in my demo account) because of many fake breakouts and my false stoploss strategy, after that i thougt i cant learn trading the forex market, so i quit for 6month trading. Some time ago i saw this thread is still alive, i looked at the actual postings from fx and began to wonder. Wow, this guy is smart i thought.. i have to try it again. So, here i am, i´m now on page 250
But i read the #1 and #2 posts, fantastic! Now my view about traiding is getting clearer and clearer, all the things i learned before are giving me now a much better view and i´m still learning this trading style every day. I´m motivated like never before. I live in germany so i start trading at 18 o´clock (GMT +1 time). Not the best time for practise because price is moving not very fast, but i cant change it,
i have to move on forward.

My trading week was very good, i had no looser.
I started with an demo account of 250€, and now i´m at 357€, after 1 week (0.1 Lot - 1/100 )

My problem is my fear of loosing if the price goes against me!
I have to change it, my entries are good, but my exits are bullsh*t.
I take not enough profit, i can´t catch a runner. I hope you guys help me with your great posts and with your beautiful chart pictures!

So.. my trades today:

Trade 1: I went short, good entry, but i took the profit to fast, as the candle went up and down! "FEAR!"

Trade 2: It was a little bit more risky, but i pushed the button and set my stoploss, i took 20pips on this one.

Trade 3: wonderfull 1-2-3 setup, but i got only 7 or 8 pips.
I got scared as the price moved down, so i got out in profit. A big mistake

Trade 4: It was risky, but i need only 10 pips for my stoploss, so i decided to go short. Forex traiding consists (i hope this is the right word) of propability´s, and my RR was 2:1 so i decided to push the button, because price moved to the daily high an seemed to go down. I took there 20pips.

I never posted here because of my english, i am 10years out of school...but now i need a little bit practise,
because i go in the end of november to australia (work and travel) and because you guys doing a GREAT job here!

I´m looking forward to the next week and to yor next posts!
Wish you all a very nice weekend! pip pip hurra
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  • #7,345
  • Edited Sep 26, 2009 1:11am Sep 25, 2009 9:39pm | Edited Sep 26, 2009 1:11am
Hello Traders

I thought I would post my pathetic efforts for Friday so other newbies who are also not doing so well don't get too discouraged. The rest of you can have a laugh. Apologies for showing asian trades but I think it helps to show why I made mistakes later

Trade 1 - At the start of the day i was inspired by Paul Langham's effort at hanging onto that runner on thursday so I decide I was going to let my trades breathe today. This one got a bit too much oxygen and passed out. I should have jumped out before BE when the big bullish candle was coming at me, either that or set my stop loss correctly

Trade 2 - once again let it breathe starting playing #1 got distracted and missed the small reversal then got stopped out.

Trade 3 - Don't feel to bad about this should played #1 at the top of the green candle but was hoping it would come back up some more

Trade 4 - Most people got out at break even, I was tempted to get off after the first red one and should have but was still trying to let it breathe

Tread 5 - By this stage my heads a mess, i wasn't going to let the market get me this time so when the second green candle started to retrace after not breaking the LL I hit the panic button. "Ah ha take that you smelly bottomed bastard you didn't get me this time" But of course it did get me, I missed the 60 pip runner that would have wiped out my losses. Even though I was doing a poor job with my new let it breathe plan if had of stuck with it I would have been ok.


PS: My entry and exits are labled back to front on trades 1 and 2
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"Save your ass, then go for profit"
  • #7,346
  • Sep 25, 2009 11:11pm Sep 25, 2009 11:11pm
Hello,

Quan-Chin-Lin:

First of all your English is just fine but most importantly your candid and honest account of your forex life reminds all of us that the path is not easy but with courage and persistence we can reach our own personal goals as a trader.
Good luck

Paul M,

In this family we laugh with you not at you.. It is because we have all made many mistakes in our forex education that we bond here and try to help each other. Sometimes, it may seem that we are a bit harsh but the truth is that behind the tough comments lies the best of intentions.
-----------------------------
Ok, ladies and gentlemen,
It is Friday night and I rather spend time here sharing my thoughts with you than watching TV ..

At first as we learn a new skill whether it is this approach or a musical instrument, it will require a narrow focus on the basic tools that we need to get the ball rolling. Then after a while, we realize that learning the tools of the trade is not enough....something is missing...we get frustrated...damn it! I did everything that I was suppose to do and I was not successful or damn it! I knew what to do but I did not do it! . This is part of the process....we all go through it. At some point the rudimentary stuff is performed without much thought and creativity and the ability to think out of the box becomes a reality... Don't want you to think that I am fully there yet! . It is a long road but one of the most important things we need to change in our thinking is this thingy we call "loosing"..
Feb and Fx remind us time and time again that accepting the fact that you will loose often is a pre requisite to success with this approach. We are trying to control our loses in this guessing game while trying to catch a runner....Preserve and Survive as FX puts it....that is it in a nutshell. Sounds and looks easy but sooner or later we all find out that it will require lots of screen time, tenacity, discipline, courage, a fearless attitude to name a few...some of us can get there faster than other but it is within our reach if you wanted bad enough. I also believe that success can mean many different things to us... so take this approach one step at a time....be gentle with yourself and help us in whatever way you can to keep this thread alive and well.


One more thing... I have mentioned before that one of the things we can do to lessen our fears/stress is to trade an amount that feels comfortable...a state of mind that help us focus on the trade instead of worrying about how much you are going to loose /win. A while back I came across this formula that can help us enter the right amount for our particular situation/circumstances based on your equity and your hard stop loss... that would be your initial stop loss. Here it is:

Equity x % of Risk = $$Risk x 10k units($1 per pip) divided by your stop loss = #of units to trade.

For example:

$1000 x 2% risk= $20 x 10k= 20k divided by 20 pips stop loss = 2k units to trade

Have a nice weekend everybody.
Unus pro omnibus, omnes pro uno
  • #7,347
  • Sep 26, 2009 12:03am Sep 26, 2009 12:03am
My chart for Friday. I traded asia session as I went out at night for the first time in ages(in Sydney that means I missed london NYC session) with friends of mine.

ALso, I am trying to get the charts working in Oanda, its very painful to do this as I have to go through each trade 1 by 1 and write them up on the chart as I cant get oanda to save my chart after I close it. But anyways.
Personally I am very much battling with trying to hold onto runners. THis is even compounded more that I dont know how Asia reacts 100% yet. I wont discuss what I found but we can open another thread if anyone wants to trade eu during asia times however I still applied System 2 methodology to th session on friday.

The overall profit for the day is only +42

Trade A: I played this short on a bracket breakout . Price ran down quickly to over +10 but I got distracted with work and when I turned around it was shooting up and I was at -12. I pulled the trigger as I knew the short was very close to a massive previous low and my thinking was its either going to break or reverse quickly. Sadly I had to do what I get paid for during the day and missed that part. Result -12

Trade B: not sure if you can see it on chart but its not labled, I shorted on the minor FCR 4652. My thinking was that if price is going to break that again then the trade in A was just the market picking up some stop losses and long orders hence and not the true market intentions. so I shorted on the break. I closed out at the double bottom candle, this time slightly below the previous low and I felt it was hitting more orders so closed the trade. Result +14

Trade C: This trade was a reversal trade from FCR break at 4634. I am still very much testing Asia so I am not sure how EU reacts and moves. so when it moved me into profit then back to entry point I closed at BE fearing it would range again for the day. As you can see, this was not the case. Leason learnt, I musnt use my brain that much Result 0

Trade D: Classic bread and butter stuff. traded long on break of 4642. So reasoning here? If it was going to break then heck I felt that my scared tatic in trade C was false and unjustified. I closed out at 4662 . I thought it didnt want to break with speed and that candle broke and came right back. So I closed the trade (tsk tsk tsk. I know I need to grow bigger balls) Result +14

Trade E: In and out in and out.. agggh...I need to stop doing this. Well FCR from trade D broke and I was in the trade long from around 4662 (spread during asia is near two for me, expensive to trade during that session). Price started to run nicely. It touched +30 and faulted, and faulted and faulted and I got nervous and went and closed it like a chicken scardy cat. It basically. Need to learn to hold these runners Result +28

Total days results +42


The week was really good for me, I didnt make remarkable amazing figures pipwise but I was profitable each day except Thursday (which was break even for me). I started learning this method on this forum about a month ago, the first 3 weeks were shocking, I was losing around 100 pips a day......
Feels good finally to be in profit. I will work a bringing it up more in the coming weeks but it takes time.
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Survive and Preserve
  • #7,348
  • Sep 26, 2009 12:10am Sep 26, 2009 12:10am
Moneda, Not sure if it helps but I have a basic spreadsheet that works this out very quickly for someone. Both in Oanda and MT4 accounts. You enter your account size and your stop loss and what % you willing to risk. It will then calculate the lot size or unit size you need to trade with to maintain that risk.

I know there are some clever programmers in here, if they could code a very simple vb.net or C# application with this formula that would be awesome and help newbies(newbies very new to trading in general and have yet to work out how much to trade with at what risk)out.


If anybody is interested in the sheet let me know via pm and I can mail it to you.


Quoting moneda
Hello,

Quan-Chin-Lin:

First of all your English is just fine but most importantly your candid and honest account of your forex life reminds all of us that the path is not easy but with courage and persistence we can reach our own personal goals as a trader.
Good luck

Paul M,

In this family we laugh with you not at you.. It is because we have all made many mistakes in our forex education that we bond here and try to help each other. Sometimes, it may seem that we are a bit harsh but the truth is that behind the tough comments lies the best of...
Survive and Preserve
  • #7,349
  • Sep 26, 2009 1:39am Sep 26, 2009 1:39am
Quoting en0x

I know there are some clever programmers in here, if they could code a very simple vb.net or C# application with this formula that would be awesome and help newbies(newbies very new to trading in general and have yet to work out how much to trade with at what risk)out.


If anybody is interested in the sheet let me know via pm and I can mail it to you.
There is also a calculator on this forum posted by darexau

http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...postcount=2243
"Save your ass, then go for profit"
  • #7,350
  • Sep 26, 2009 1:44am Sep 26, 2009 1:44am
That is a pretty cool spreadsheet, its alittle more complicated for me then I need though but pretty cool looking
[quote=DareXau;2763948]
Quoting fxachilies
G'day fxachilies,
I have been suggesting scaling out the trade, but as you said later on in your next post:
"... I know all about scaling out and I am not a big fan of it as matter of fact, I don't like it at all..."
Sorry mate, but I don't know about any other options, for me it works fine and gives me a comfort to keep testing the market for any runners after each break-out (most times it becomes a free ride anyway);
but as feb is pointing out its very important:
..."if you get stopped before the market...
Survive and Preserve
  • #7,351
  • Sep 26, 2009 2:06am Sep 26, 2009 2:06am
Quoting dim4ik42
Look... here is some paradox... It took some time (even long time) for me to understand this paradox...

... FXahilies!!!!!

Thank you Brothers!!!
It is your effort that I am know more sucessfull!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dim, why say thank you to this person.
He is not deserve nothing from us.
Yes I say it to you, fxachiles.

here is why

Quoting fxachilies
.. we got a girl (Helen) on board here today I not supposed to cuss..lol.. but I f***** this one right in the a**... lol
ur post is disgrace to FF,
and for us as a whole family
  • #7,352
  • Sep 26, 2009 2:54am Sep 26, 2009 2:54am
Quoting Paul M
Hello Traders

I thought I would post my pathetic efforts for Friday so other newbies who are also not doing so well don't get too discouraged. The rest of you can have a laugh. Apologies for showing asian trades but I think it helps to show why I made mistakes later

Trade 1 - At the start of the day i was inspired by Paul Langham's effort at hanging onto that runner on thursday so I decide I was going to let my trades breathe today. This one got a bit too much oxygen and passed out. I should have jumped out before BE when the big bullish candle...
This is so honest and valuable Paul. I think this serves as a warning to me that there is no fixed law about anything at all - even though the principles are simple, the when and where they are implemented is so crucial. There is this complex balance between letting it breathe and taking the profit, between expectancy and time to get out BE or with a small loss - rather than hanging in and hoping. This game can bite us all in the butt. I notice that I am most dangerous after taking a small profit too early (trying to get back in I can hallucinate fcr's that just are not there at all), or after a loss (when I convince myself my predictions are correct regardless of what the PA is). Your chart is a contribution - what an honest guy you are.
$urvive, Pre$erve & RESPECT THE TEACHER
  • #7,353
  • Sep 26, 2009 3:19am Sep 26, 2009 3:19am
Quoting Paul M
There is also a calculator on this forum posted by darexau

http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...postcount=2243

Nice one.
$urvive, Pre$erve & RESPECT THE TEACHER
  • #7,354
  • Sep 26, 2009 3:31am Sep 26, 2009 3:31am
Quoting Musanto
Dim, why say thank you to this person.
He is not deserve nothing from us.
Yes I say it to you, fxachiles.

here is why



ur post is disgrace to FF,
and for us as a whole family

ok.. what the hell is this guy talking about..

Musanto (mulyadi)..
I think you have misunderstood my 7232 post..
I was talking to Moneda about my bracket trade that I was triggered on both side and i was having fun with it and joking around about it..
it had nothing to do with Helen or Dim.. if they were offended I am sure he would have broghted to my attention.. and for sure they don't need reperesenter..
if your absurd lil observation post is bcz of your misunderstanding, (due to not know the english language properly or etc..) then its fine and all good.. but if your running some sick thoughts in your head, I must say your a complete fucking idiot..


PS) nobody owes me anything nor need to thank me.. I have neve asked for it or will i ever do.. its absured.
if people thank me its out of there own will.. and I just simply appreciate the gesture and gald that i was help to them.
  • #7,355
  • Sep 26, 2009 3:46am Sep 26, 2009 3:46am
I ziped through the long 15-20 pages of yesterdays post and was about to make a post about this runner exit issue.. (as i expected that it would have been most peoples concern) until i fell into this absured post from this ungrateful idiot.. just ruined my concentration.. the hell with it now..

enjoy your weekend guys..
  • #7,356
  • Sep 26, 2009 4:12am Sep 26, 2009 4:12am
FX, I appreciate you and certainly give you my respect, far more then Musanto. Thanks for keeping us on track and doing this out of your kindness. Have a good weekend mate.


Quoting fxachilies
I ziped through the long 15-20 pages of yesterdays post and was about to make a post about this runner exit issue.. (as i expected that it would have been most peoples concern) until i fell into this absured post from this ungrateful idiot.. just ruined my concentration.. the hell with it now..

enjoy your weekend guys..
Survive and Preserve
  • #7,357
  • Sep 26, 2009 10:30am Sep 26, 2009 10:30am
haha fx in this world there are some very i mean very decent people that fight bad language at all costs maybe this guys one of them or he just didnt understand the joke. forget about it, we are all thankful for every explanations and every piece of advice that we receive and sometimes those jokes brighten the atmosphere, i'm sure that most people wont say anything against that.
have a nice weekend all of you. i will b e practising this system or at least i will be trying to do so
  • #7,358
  • Sep 26, 2009 11:23am Sep 26, 2009 11:23am
just finished to read the whole thread , (puuhh) and joined
the forum to say thx to Feb and all the others who gave their
precious input.


Hope to see you all on monday
  • #7,359
  • Sep 26, 2009 11:59am Sep 26, 2009 11:59am
Quoting fxachilies
I ziped through the long 15-20 pages of yesterdays post and was about to make a post about this runner exit issue.. (as i expected that it would have been most peoples concern) until i fell into this absured post from this ungrateful idiot.. just ruined my concentration.. the hell with it now..

enjoy your weekend guys..

Don't take this to heart Fx. This is so clearly a LANGUAGE BASED MISUNDERSTANDING. Musanto has misread this. Operating in written threads can so often lead to terrible wars breaking out over totally innocent mistakes like this. Operating in your second language is fraught with difficulty. Both of you have the generous courtesy to write in English - very good English too. So let's take the heat out of this and see clearly that Musanto seems to be fighting against something that is not there - and displays his committment to some good values in the mistake he has made. You dear fellow, are innocent of the accusation - your style of communication has been associated with a message you certainly did not intend. MAKE LOVE NOT WAR unless a war is justified - and this time we members of the family would do well not to stoke the fire by taking sides in a fight based on a mistake. You are both very valuable, honourable and fab guys... and we all, bless us for the fact, make simple mistakes that get blown up out of all proportion.
$urvive, Pre$erve & RESPECT THE TEACHER
  • #7,360
  • Sep 26, 2009 12:06pm Sep 26, 2009 12:06pm
Quoting Musanto
Dim, why say thank you to this person.
He is not deserve nothing from us.
Yes I say it to you, fxachiles.

here is why



ur post is disgrace to FF,
and for us as a whole family

Musanto - I think you got the wrong end of the stick here. Fx is talking about the trade...not what I think you have interpreted his meaning to be. That you fight what you think he meant is a credit to you but is based on a misinterpretation of his post. That would be inappropriate and rude indeed. But he didn't - he wouldn't - and he is probably hurting a bit that it came from you especially as part of the top team. This thread needs you both - and for you both to be on each others' side. Misunderstandings happen in families - superior families can sort these things out really simply. I know we're a superior family!
All this needs is a little healing.
$urvive, Pre$erve & RESPECT THE TEACHER
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