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Where can I learn more about Price Action like those in James16 charts? 9 replies

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james16 Chart Thread

  • #44,621
  • Sep 25, 2009 12:18pm Sep 25, 2009 12:18pm
This was a nice one - although not a Daily TF trade, it was of the 4 hr variety. Noon local time bar which closed at 4PM was a no-brainer.

Nice size BEOB, formed at a solid Resistance area (a Head and Shoulders - if you go in for that kind of thing) and the size of the bar was sweet. Don't let anyone fool you - size matters.

So now, the trade is up 3R - AND we have busted the 1.6000 cleanly. I had the luxury of being able to move my stops behind the bars as it got to and through that major PPZ.

It would not surprise me if we consolidate a little in this area, or that small PB on the PPZ may signal a resumption of a runner ...

Lock in your pips or get right out - the problem is yours.

All I can hear in my head is:

Should I stay or should I go now.... If I stay there will be trouble, if I go there will be double...





...
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I'm pretty much done with all this ...
  • #44,622
  • Sep 25, 2009 12:32pm Sep 25, 2009 12:32pm
Hi Jason - Welcome - you have fell in among some real traders here who will help you to profits.

No vetting of posts either.

Beware the small bar - bars do nothing more other than indicate order flow -> lots of orders = big bars = conviction and strength of move in the indicated direction.

What we look for fundamentally is this:

FIRST AND FOREMOST - A good area where order flow exists - PPZ's in confluence with major round numbers and 50 - 61% fib retracement.

Second - the bar - well formed and one that show conviction of the market - we want nice footprints to follow in and a good bar give you that.

Third - space - If a bar breaks, and 10 pips after that break, there is a PPZ, that PPZ often acts like a repelling force. Ugh. great bar, but trading into 'traffic'. Also space means that we are not trading through an imediate area of consolidation either. This concept of space is the most difficult to learn, but it is not hard.

Learn to identify these things going forward, trade that knowledge and you cannot lose. Keep posting and you'll get lots of assistance.

Cheers!

Quoting TraderJay101
Hello to all,

This is my first post on FF. I am here specifically for this James16 thread. I am from the UK and I was introduced to your style of trading by the very helpful Tom, aka The Wizard.
I have been reading through the thread as a non-member lurker, and thought it time I show my appreciation, so THANK YOU ALL.
I thought I would post this chart to see what you thought of the set up and my interpretation. - If we get the pin at close in a few hours time.

Round number at 1600.
Near the weekly fib at 23.60%
Tail piercing the 365...
I'm pretty much done with all this ...
  • #44,623
  • Sep 25, 2009 1:25pm Sep 25, 2009 1:25pm
Quoting StoragePro
This was a nice one - although not a Daily TF trade, it was of the 4 hr variety....
Awesome trade SP. I saw it too late, but I really love that BEOB.
Price moved down, pulled back to a PPZ (also a 50% fib to the fibbers), and produced a great bar (engulfs a few previous bars).

I had a nice day intraday trading the EURUSD though.

Quoting StoragePro
Oh - and having Oanda take your biz - Good for you. Just let your father know
Yea he knows. He doesn't care what I do with my money, he just care too much about giving any company his ID and personal details (IMO it's ridicules, but his right to decide lol).

Anyway, it will need to wait a few weeks...they are asking for a kind of bill or document on my name in addition to my ID and photo...so I need to go to the bank and open an account on my name (they said it will be good enough instead)...when time allows.

Have a great week everyone,

Ben
  • #44,624
  • Edited 1:40pm Sep 25, 2009 1:26pm | Edited 1:40pm
Quoting TraderJay101
Hello to all,
.....
Welcome Jason.

i thinks Sir StoragePro's reply already suffice.
btw, are u intending to enter a trade into the weekend?
an upmove from here may happen, but the question is, for how long?
the bar prior is very big too.
& btw, price may not make a correction, it may just consolidate near current price, before resuming another downmove.

Keep reading & keep posting
Good luck & enjoy
  • #44,625
  • Edited 1:48pm Sep 25, 2009 1:36pm | Edited 1:48pm
Quoting StoragePro
This was a nice one...
...
Nice trade, Sir.
your trade illustrates that there are indeed what we call "pause candles/bars", 2-3 (depends on how u look at it) PB's after your BEOB in this case.
This example teaches us not to trade/avoid trading against a trend.


Quoting benji533
.....
Anyway, it will need to wait a few weeks...they are asking for a kind of bill or document on my name in addition to my ID and photo...so I need to go to the bank and open an account on my name (they said it will be good enough instead)...when time allows.
they require a utility bill under your name. it's great that they allowed u to submit a different one.
Good luck!
  • #44,626
  • Sep 25, 2009 2:48pm Sep 25, 2009 2:48pm
Quoting StoragePro
This was a nice one - although not a Daily TF trade, it was of the 4 hr variety....
Nice one SP...in exactly the same situation as you

Stops moved down to 1.61550 area now to lock in in few
  • #44,627
  • Sep 25, 2009 2:49pm Sep 25, 2009 2:49pm
Quoting StoragePro
Oh - and having Oanda take your biz - Good for you. Just let your father know - as a Dad myself, I can tell you that owe him that much.
He'll find out when Benji parks his Porsche outside in a while
  • #44,628
  • Sep 25, 2009 3:02pm Sep 25, 2009 3:02pm
Quoting o990l6mh
He'll find out when Benji parks his Porsche outside in a while
Darn you ve made my day ! Yeah I hope that this will be the way how Benji's father will understand
  • #44,629
  • Sep 25, 2009 3:34pm Sep 25, 2009 3:34pm
Quoting StoragePro
This was a nice one - although not a Daily TF trade, it was of the 4 hr variety....
Nice trade! That's a pretty chart too! Is all you have on your chart PPZs? Or do you incorporate MAs, TLs, and fibs?

Ross
  • #44,630
  • Sep 25, 2009 4:28pm Sep 25, 2009 4:28pm
Wanted to share my coolest trade today (I saved a pic just in time), EURUSD intraday
One like this once a week and I really don't need anything more.

Long term moves are very rare to be able to hold. These are only available when there ia a good breakout pattern, or a very sharp trending market. But most of the time the market is sideways (like james says all the time), and then reversal trades whith small targets are working great. But you still need your confluence. Some use MA's and fibs - I use PPZs, round numbers, divergence (and in some trades, the most powerful confluence factor is THE TREND).

This was a great pin + div with a very clear and easy target to hit. Some times I get killed in intraday sideways market because I am trying to be an hero and catch big moves when the conditions do not allow. I must work on it.
I have entered this in a risky style (entry by retrace + a reduced stop), but that pin was big and with a little price flips understanding like all of us here in this thread know, it was a risky entry, but an entry with a reason, and a good enough reason IMO, which makes all the difference in cash from the same move.

Eventually this certain pin created a much larger move, that caused me to miss a good amount of R (rewards), lol. But this is life, and I prefer a smaller gain, than a lose.
As rac says, the market will be here long enough after my bones will be dust, so no worries

By the way, I drew the div wrong on my chart. On a close line chart, price made a double top (not an higher high), but there is still div.

Ben
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  • #44,631
  • Sep 25, 2009 4:51pm Sep 25, 2009 4:51pm
pin by proxy.



Quoting benji533
Wanted to share my coolest trade today (I saved a pic just in time), EURUSD intraday
One like this once a week and I really don't need anything more.

Long term moves are very rare to be able to hold. These are only available when there ia a good breakout pattern, or a very sharp trending market. But most of the time the market is sideways (like james says all the time), and then reversal trades whith small targets are working great. But you still need your confluence. Some use MA's and fibs - I use PPZs, round numbers, divergence (and in some...
  • #44,632
  • Sep 25, 2009 5:03pm Sep 25, 2009 5:03pm
Quoting rossbennett
Nice trade! That's a pretty chart too! Is all you have on your chart PPZs? Or do you incorporate MAs, TLs, and fibs?

Ross
I have the 150 and 365 up on the chart - you can get great 'first time back' trades off of them when confluenced. There is no other use for them.

I 'notice' TL's - but they are not a core component of my trading. I know of some trend line traders, and it can be effective.

I sometimes will use a fib if I cannot clearly see where the retrace is. There is one other use for a fib - hiding a SL behind a level on a long term trade. I pull a fib, look for confluence, mark the area and then get it off the chart. This works for areas of upcoming interest and to manage a move.

These trades do not happen everyday of course, but when they do, I want to have my eye tuned into PRICE, PRICE and PRICE as the way to manage the trade.

Getting in is easy, squeezing the juice out of the trade is much more interesting.

Oh - and don't lose. BE is a gift from above.

Consider this - what if you had 20 BE trades and four 2R to 5R trades in a month??? Bliss. Trust me, I've done this both ways. Bliss is better.


This week was magnificent and I had more BE trades than full winners. And one unavoidable loss. Bliss. Absolute Bliss. A very huge week.


Getting there requires that you master the basics. And be picky.

I recently had an interesting conversation with a trader - who remain anonymous as requested, and I asked about how to eliminate stress in trading, as I tend to feel it too much. The answer was not earth shaking - I KNEW the answer - it won't completely go away, but much of it can be eliminated by:

Drum roll please....

Be very careful, dare I say 'extremely picky' about what trades you take. Only the best suffice.


Why?

First: Because a great setup tend to move away fast.
Second, because it moves away fast, you can get to BE fairly quick too.
Third: great setups have more of a chance to run because they are in 'space' and have room. And once momentum gets up there, PPZ's can get smashed. And it runs even harder.

Shoot - I was not going to trade last night, but I did anyway - and took two trades. One ran like the dickens and the other ended at BE. The BE trade actually was a better setup too. I was done and out in a couple hours with a high R multiple. Mrs StoragePro was happy too...

Both setups were A+ breakout setups. There was a third, but I skipped it - oopsy - it was great too! But no complaints here.


Now for the grand conclusion of my soapbox moment -

Why all this blather? Here is the point:

Everybody is very concerned about the tools. Fib this, and EMA that and RSI love fest. Yeah, those tools are not without merit and are useful, but they are so simple to use a 16 year old kid with a few weeks experience can master them in a day. (Benji )

The most important thing is the process you follow to handle the act of trading. It does not matter if a Surgeon has the sharpest scalpel in the world, if he uses it to hammer a pin into my broken bone. And just because PB majikly appears at a 61% retrace, does not mean it should be taken - it could be in the ghetto of traffic.

Learn to use the tools aright. That is a question of process. Stepping back from the BAR and looking at the big picture. Be maniacally picky. It works.


OUT!

.
I'm pretty much done with all this ...
  • #44,633
  • Sep 25, 2009 5:05pm Sep 25, 2009 5:05pm
Quoting james16
pin by proxy.

Yep, it's even not a pin lol. But for me, as long as it closes below the round number' it's trade-able because of the long nose (even if the closes isn't on the pip, I can read a strong rejection by looking at the bar it self, and the close is below my key level). Even a better when it pokes above all these bar highs

Ben
  • #44,634
  • Sep 25, 2009 5:05pm Sep 25, 2009 5:05pm
Quoting benji533
Wanted to share my coolest trade today (I saved a pic just in time), EURUSD intraday
One like this once a week and I really don't need anything more.

Long term moves are very rare to be able to hold. These are only available when there ia a good breakout pattern, or a very sharp trending market. But most of the time the market is sideways (like james says all the time), and then reversal trades whith small targets are working great. But you still need your confluence. Some use MA's and fibs - I use PPZs, round numbers, divergence (and in some...

Spot on Ben..

Thats all we do.. j16 pa...

I'm sure you notice both of these took place at ........ yep round numbers..
the euro loves'em...
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  • #44,635
  • Sep 25, 2009 5:15pm Sep 25, 2009 5:15pm
Nice trade Ben.

I love this. This is what make trading fun, but really hard for most new folks. I see that bar, and would not have traded it. It simply does not fit into the framework of my rules.

But it fit fine with Benji and his framework.

So, now that people see this kind of back and forth, They try to combine it all together and *presto* a blown account followed by paralysis and a deep distrust of a market that will reward you - if you let it.

A small trvth:

Combing everyones stuff here is like combing all kinds of indicators together. It will not work. You have to learn basic S/R and PA and then, through observation and experience, add things in slowly. Only you can drive that road.


My suggestion to all the new folks whose heads are spinning - and I know you are out there.

Learn the basics first - one step at a time. Guys like Ben have a really big advantage - they don't know that they are not supposed to be able to do this. No one told him, so he runs off and does it - and does it very well. I'm am a bit jealous of course.

The rest of us have the overburden of 'life experience' to strip off, and it takes some time.

Excelsior! (the three stooges said that a lot. I kind of liked it)

Quoting benji533
Wanted to share my coolest trade today (I saved a pic just in time), EURUSD intraday
One like this once a week and I really don't need anything more.

Long term moves are very rare to be able to hold. These are only available when there ia a good breakout pattern, or a very sharp trending market. But most of the time the market is sideways (like james says all the time), and then reversal trades whith small targets are working great. But you still need your confluence. Some use MA's and fibs - I use PPZs, round numbers, divergence (and in...
I'm pretty much done with all this ...
  • #44,636
  • Sep 25, 2009 5:22pm Sep 25, 2009 5:22pm
Quoting rustyjeff
Spot on Ben..

Thats all we do.. j16 pa...

I'm sure you notice both of these took place at ........ yep round numbers..
the euro loves'em...
Hey buddy

I took the first trade on your chart: http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=44521

Yea this is really simple. I am not advising new traders to trade lower time frames, but I can say that after they make their way down, there will be at least one A+ setup once a day.
A great bar + div + round number is all we need to make a good trade

The only thing that is hard for me, is being all day on the computer for ot missing good setups, or not being around and missing.
To be honest I never tried the alerts off the round numbers - maybe that is the answer. Many great trades are there.

By the way Jeff, you are trading quite similar to Ryan, right? So we are looking for the same things I think

Ben
  • #44,637
  • Sep 25, 2009 5:47pm Sep 25, 2009 5:47pm
Quoting StoragePro
Hi Jason - Welcome - you have fell in among some real traders here who will help you to profits.
Thank you for your warm welcome. I am really excited to be here, and I am fully aware of the excellent traders here, who are very generous with their help.

Quote
FIRST AND FOREMOST - A good area where order flow exists - PPZ's in confluence with major round numbers and 50 - 61% fib retracement.

Is it ok to use 38 and 23 in highly trending markets on a pull back?
Quote
Third - space - If a bar breaks, and 10 pips after that break, there is a PPZ, that PPZ often acts like a repelling force.

Lol of course! sounds obvious now you say it, the right level will mean something very different on the wrong side of the pin.
Quote
Cheers!

Cheers to you too and have a good weekend.
  • #44,638
  • Sep 25, 2009 5:56pm Sep 25, 2009 5:56pm
Quoting supremeChaos
Welcome Jason.

i thinks Sir StoragePro's reply already suffice.
btw, are u intending to enter a trade into the weekend?
an upmove from here may happen, but the question is, for how long?
the bar prior is very big too.
& btw, price may not make a correction, it may just consolidate near current price, before resuming another downmove.

Keep reading & keep posting
Good luck & enjoy
Thank you for your warm welcome.

No, I will not be taking any trades over the weekend.

Being new to these set ups I am limiting myself to forex and daily charts. I could not see any set ups for these this this weekend.

If cable had completed as a pin. I would have been tempted, with a small profit target of 16130 (recent bar lows) and intensive management.

Being keen to take a position I would have loved the pin to have completed. But in retrospect as yourself and StoragePro pointed out Thursdays bar would have been so large in comparison to today’s potential pin.
But you know what, now I actually feel I have taken a position by standing aside. I have read that standing aside is taking a position but never quite felt it before. At any one time you have only three options, to buy, to sell or to stand aside, as long as you do the right thing at the time you have taken the right position. So lets feel just as pleased to stand aside as to take a profitable trade.

Kind Regards
Jason
  • #44,639
  • Sep 25, 2009 5:58pm Sep 25, 2009 5:58pm
Quote
I see that bar, and would not have traded it. It simply does not fit into the framework of my rules.
Rules? what rules?
This is the point I feel different. I didn't find any single article which didn't mention that "YOU MUST HAVE RULES IN ORDER TO MAKE MONEY".
I don't have rules. Funny. I have never wrote down a list of rules and followed them.
Maybe this is the reason it's so important for me to find sense in everything? I trade a method which made up from knowledge and almost 100% common sense.
Rules confuse me. You need this and this and that and...to fit together in order to pull the trigger.
I just look at a setup and find if there are good enough reasons to trade it, or reasons why not to trade it.

In the case of the trade above, to be honest, I didn't even checked if it's technically a pin. And for me it doesn't matter if it closed a pip and an half above the bar from the left, or not. It still shows me the same. This is an example of using common sense instead of rules. A rule would be preventing me from taking this trade, even that all the other factors where good. I just ask myself if this 1.5 pip will change the entire next move? IMO no.

Thinking about it, on an other broker's time zone, it maybe is a technically pin...so..lol.


Every setup is individual. It can take years for the exact same setup to form again, at the same way, location and shape.
When I think about rules I think about a system. About a robot that fills orders. About an expert advisor. But robots are used for things which happen all the time exactly the same.
The market is different all the time, and it isn't a system - it moves by human's orders and desire. So we need to use common sense, that human have, and not a system.

Maybe I got too far with this, sorry guys. What I am saying is not right, correct or a fact by any mean. It is just me sharing my opinion, so please stick to the more experienced people in the trading world which do have a list of rules

Quote
My suggestion to all the new folks whose heads are spinning - and I know you are out there.
I remember it happened to me after reading Jim's posts, and them Mike's posts. They trade so different, and use different tools.

What I dd was just taking what I like from everyone. But not too much.

Quote
Guys like Ben have a really big advantage - they don't know that they are not supposed to be able to do this. No one told him, so he runs off and does it - and does it very well.
Not supposed to do what?
  • #44,640
  • Sep 25, 2009 6:10pm Sep 25, 2009 6:10pm
Quoting benji533
Rules? what rules?
This is the point I feel different. I didn't find any single article which didn't mention that "YOU MUST HAVE RULES IN ORDER TO MAKE MONEY".
I don't have rules. Funny. I have never wrote down a list of rules and followed them.
Maybe this is the reason it's so important for me to find sense in everything? I trade a method which made up from knowledge and almost 100% common sense.
Rules confuse me. You need this and this and that and...to fit together in order to pull the trigger.
I just look at a setup and find if there...
Thanks Benji...actually, I find this post quite helpful. I have been trading 2 years, and was schooled in the "you must have written rules and stick to them" mindset.

Re. things like money management, I think it's always good to have rules.

But re. whether or not to take a trade, I'm starting to be not so sure. Recently I have experienced episodes where applying the rules of a trading system resulted in failed trades and losses, but hey, I kept the rules right? I've just been wondering lately if my trading system "rules" might actually be getting in the way, so it's interesting that you posted this.

I like your approach and will be mulling this stuff and more over in my mind this weekend. I think we'd all like a "do A, B, and C and you'll make money" formula, but as you alluded to, you either have good solid reasons to take a trade or you don't.

Anyway, thanks for sharing that...great stuff on the thread today And by the way, this is my first full week trading J16, and I ended up making 90 pips for the week (trading micros). Nothing like what most of you guys seem to have made, but I'm encouraged still...onward and upward.

Peace...
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