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Where can I learn more about Price Action like those in James16 charts? 9 replies

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james16 Chart Thread

  • #42,881
  • Sep 2, 2009 1:59pm Sep 2, 2009 1:59pm
Ben,

In regards to your CADJPY chart, I see exactly what you're talking about for your entry. My question, though, regards your exit. In looking at the chart you posted, where would you take profit in that trade. Also, where would you place a stop loss? I'm just trying to continue learning.
  • #42,882
  • Sep 2, 2009 2:15pm Sep 2, 2009 2:15pm
Quoting nasir.khan
................................................
It's all gone. All profits of 1 month in 2 Days.
.............................................
ITS ALL ABOUT P.A.T.I.E.N.C.E.

And i don't have it.
Hi nasir,

I can feel your agony.
Knowing how you feel is everything here.
Like mike said this is the price of A lesson. which lesson is it?
is it you can not trade? surly NOT. I saw some of your trades and they are good.
is it you do not have patience? sure NOT. see above trades.
So technically you are on the right path. you know how to spot a trade. an entry. even an exit, as per your last email "I hit the $365 mark on a $90 account".

so what is it?
I apologize if this will offend you, it is not intended . just trying to show you a little bit of light at this hour.

again, What is the lesson then? one of the lessons is...
A brutal combination of small account, grid and hyper feeling of "I nailed it. I know how to trade now".
even if you eliminate ONE of those three elements you made a HUGE leap forward. more then 95% of traders i know.

so, take the week of. completely. don't even read the forum.
Take time of trading.
see you in a week with new insights and strength.

BTW,
as many will not tell you: I have been in your shoes, done that also...
Jim went through that 8 (!) times. the big guy wrote that he was crying at times.

Ady
  • #42,883
  • Sep 2, 2009 2:33pm Sep 2, 2009 2:33pm
Quoting jarroo
Strong confluenced area.
Nice area indeed
  • #42,884
  • Sep 2, 2009 2:49pm Sep 2, 2009 2:49pm
Quoting manperm
Ben,

In regards to your CADJPY chart, I see exactly what you're talking about for your entry. My question, though, regards your exit. In looking at the chart you posted, where would you take profit in that trade. Also, where would you place a stop loss? I'm just trying to continue learning.
Hey manperm,

Great question.

Usually I set targets on these intraday trades, but this situation is a bit different.
Firstly we are ridding the trend, secondly we are trading into a large range of recent space = meaning no RECENT heavy or clear support we are heading into. So in this situation I like trailing my stops.

First priority = get stop to BE or at least reduce risk as much as possible. After I'm is a free trade, I will maybe decide to let my trade more space to run.

My initial stop will be a few pips above the high of the BEOB.
I will place two orders:
1) Sell limit order on the round number.
2) sell stop on the break of the pin.
When the first order triggers I will cancel the second. I just do this in order to be sure I don't miss the trade if the retrace isn't strong enough.
I will recommend starting only with one sell stop at the break of the bar, and with time you will see what works for you.

How would I manage this trade?
See the bar low on the left which I have marked with gray? When price hits that bar, I'll just move my stop slightly a few pips above the round number.
A few bars latter we got another BEOB (EDIT: now I notice it is more a natural bar..or more a bullish pin bar. Any way I'll still put my stop there cause I won't let an opposite pin make me a full bar loss in this case. But it didn't even trigger). At that point I move my stop a few pips above the high of that bar. If that BEOB doesn't hold - I will prefer loosing a very small part of my position witch has left, instead of HOPING that the round number will hold - NO HOPING IN THIS BUSINESS, IT WILL KILL YOU MENTALLY! Now we are almost in a free trade.

Do you see the two red arrows on my chart? These are matching lows. The next bar breaks them. I move my stop slightly above the high of that bar. Now we are at BE = free trade + we broke a support area which now needs to act as resistance (PPZ).

Now it's just a question of feeling. I am in a free trade.
The next bar is a pin. Where did it's nose stalled? ohh easy question...our old support became new resistance

Now you can lock profit by moving your stop above that pin. That will be reasonable for me cause I also have the resistance that protects me, and also the bar itself which is a PA bar (BTW, can you see how our old support which came resistance rejected price so hard it became a pin? I call it COOL!!!!!)

Now I would just plot the BAT indicator and trail my stop with it because the movement of price is really slow....no long and sharp bearish bars.
If I would be getting these kind of bars, I would probably use the 2 bar stop method of Mike. Meaning trailing my stop above each new bar after is closes.

Hope this helps
If not, I'll come tomorrow to tray and help....now it's getting a bit late here and I already have a mini exam to be ready for tomorrow (damn teacher!!)
Good night

Ben
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  • #42,885
  • Sep 2, 2009 3:35pm Sep 2, 2009 3:35pm
Nasir - can I suggest a different way to say it? It will help.

"I had a good month, made a couple of mistakes, but I did not lose - I am at break even."

That is the truth and a better way to voice it. It is positive and will keep you beliefs about youself in a good place.

Cheers and congrats. Not many can do as well as you did with these mistakes!


Quoting mbqb11
Hey Nasir

You do have patience, but it is something we all continuously practice and work on getting better at. All traders no matter what level have to work on it. But guess what you learned a cheap lesson that you can learn HUGE amounts from. I have seen many before in your shoes, and they have come out far better then they were before. B/C it is a lesson we all must learn. Don't take away from your progress, simply use this to build on in the proper way forward now. Slow and steady.

Head high sir!

Mike
I'm pretty much done with all this ...
  • #42,886
  • Sep 2, 2009 3:54pm Sep 2, 2009 3:54pm
Quoting joelcf
(Mike pretty much said everything I was going to, but anyways...)



I really only move my stop if something completely out of the ordinary is happening. A retrace is normal, we all see them and I am comfortable with that. But when it retraces through a big number without blinking, or hits what i thought was a weak ppz (such as the base of the pin i want to trade) and moves sharply against me, I get concerned.




I do look for all these first, and put a list of 'potential stops' into my trade plan before I enter. To be honest, the...
Thanks Joel and Mike. I continue to learn everyday.... and that's never a bad thing.

Josh
  • #42,887
  • Sep 2, 2009 4:02pm Sep 2, 2009 4:02pm
Hi all - I am short on this pair (despite a horror spread from my broker) because;

2 decent PB's
At resistance
On daily at fib 50 retrace of last move down.

It has stalled its steep rise over the last couple of hours (2nd 4H PB just closed) and I hope to see it head south.

Any comments, as always, greatly apprecaited
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  • #42,888
  • Sep 2, 2009 4:29pm Sep 2, 2009 4:29pm
Quoting Grousman
Hi all - I am short on this pair (despite a horror spread from my broker) because;

2 decent PB's
At resistance
On daily at fib 50 retrace of last move down.

It has stalled its steep rise over the last couple of hours (2nd 4H PB just closed) and I hope to see it head south.

Any comments, as always, greatly apprecaited
Hey Grousman

Firstly on the bars themselves. It looks like technically speaking that first bar isn't a pin, that the close is above the prior bars high(remb open and close must be within prior bar). Then also that next bar broke the high of that "pin" which would technically invalidate it. Then that next bar is a very very small pin with the nose not really protruding. My advice is to pass on these all day long. Wait for the much nicer clear ones. They are much easier to manage and trade. Also by entering on the close(I am assuming you entered on the close of that second one), again it is more agressive and a pin is not technically valid until price breaks the low of it. Overall my rating if I had to place it would be a D, and to wait out for the better ones. The waiting game is tough, but it is what pays us at the end of the day if you ask me.

Just some thoughts hope it helps
Mike
  • #42,889
  • Sep 2, 2009 4:39pm Sep 2, 2009 4:39pm
Quoting mbqb11
Hey Grousman

Firstly on the bars themselves....
Thanks, as always, Mike. Getting better with the waiting game but nowhere near enough. I thought this might have been a C trade & would manage accordingly but, again, you have put things in perspective.

Thanksfor the prompt input.
  • #42,890
  • Sep 2, 2009 4:40pm Sep 2, 2009 4:40pm
GBPJPY daily seems to be forming a little pin bar to a very nice place, just above a huge round number 150.00 and former S/R.
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  • #42,891
  • Sep 2, 2009 4:42pm Sep 2, 2009 4:42pm
Ben,

Thank you very much for your help. That was one of the most informative and well laid out examples I've been given. That kind of assistance seems to be a theme around here, which is why I've been watching this thread for so long. Every little piece of knowledge I gain is invaluable. I hope that I can soon offer information that may be deemed useful, as well!
  • #42,892
  • Sep 2, 2009 5:19pm Sep 2, 2009 5:19pm
Quoting manperm
Ben,

Thank you very much for your help. That was one of the most informative and well laid out examples I've been given. That kind of assistance seems to be a theme around here, which is why I've been watching this thread for so long. Every little piece of knowledge I gain is invaluable. I hope that I can soon offer information that may be deemed useful, as well!
I agree. Ben sure knows how to read Price very well. Price isn't that hard to read and understand. It just takes a little time, practise and good examples like Ben has given. Nice job Ben.

Now if that BEOB was where we want them to be, which is at a swing High, then they become real easy to read, manage and are more profitable.

Jim
Indicators show the past. Price Action "Indicates" the future.
  • #42,893
  • Sep 2, 2009 7:06pm Sep 2, 2009 7:06pm
Ben,

You mentioned in a recent post that a BEOB was larger than the last 43 bars. If you don't mind sharing, who did you reach that conclusion? If there is some feature in MetaTrader or some indicator you are using, I would love to have the same tool. Thanks, it's inspiring to see someone get a good grasp of this material so quickly.

Quoting benji533
Just though about sharing this
Maybe I'm naive to think this way after the fact. But I have also traded bunch of them and almost all of them were winners.

Ben
  • #42,894
  • Sep 2, 2009 7:17pm Sep 2, 2009 7:17pm
Excuse the messy chart.

Anyone feel lucky enough for this buob off of old lesser pvz and a little divergence?

I don't think i like it as its right in to a strong recent pvz and against the trend not to mention kinda sideways....




Sunday bars are gay
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May all your fits be loose.
  • #42,895
  • Sep 2, 2009 7:27pm Sep 2, 2009 7:27pm
Quoting endo77
Anyone feel lucky enough for this buob off of old lesser pvz and a little divergence?
Like you said, weak, small ranging BUOB that *barely* engulfs the previous bar, against the main trend and right into a PPZ on a choppyass pair made up of two choppyass currencies? That's not even a D- in my book.

But I *know* there is a Dirty Harry quote in here somewhere


Quoting endo77
Sunday bars are gay
That is a p1 quote if ever I saw one.
When you have to shoot, shoot. Dont talk.
  • #42,896
  • Sep 2, 2009 7:32pm Sep 2, 2009 7:32pm
Quoting atton
What happened here. Did I miss something important ? We have ret to 50% fibo and the price touchs the both Emas
I just woke up & i think u are already dozing off... anyway..

Aside from the 'minor' PPZs (which u traded into), mentioned by Sir Mike, did u notice the upward movement of your MACD? u traded against it.
PA setups do not always work --meaning, we cannot just trade every PB or BEOB that we see. in your chart's case, it could be a 'pause' PA -- a pause of the uptrend at that time.
Also, i think too, like Mike, that that PA was not triggered, so there should have been No trade.

as u learn about PA setups & PPZs, i recommend u , too, try to learn/master the single indicator on your chart - MACD.
  • #42,897
  • Sep 2, 2009 7:42pm Sep 2, 2009 7:42pm
Quoting Grousman
Hi all - I am short on this pair (despite a horror spread from my broker) because;
....
It has stalled its steep rise over the last couple of hours (2nd 4H PB just closed) and I hope to see it head south.....
This word caught my eye. it means u are not quite sure.
Did u notice the huge Daily BUB (bullish bar; almost a BUOB on XTB MT4)? i believe this is a big consideration.
Did u notice price stopped inside the range found on the left of price (H4 chart, Aug10 - 14)? price may continue to thrive inside this range. or it may go down to 1st roadblock around 1.2320 area.

watch your words. your words & thoughts are VERY powerful.

things to think about. Hope this helps
  • #42,898
  • Sep 2, 2009 7:49pm Sep 2, 2009 7:49pm
Quoting jarroo
Strong confluenced area.
i have a bias, Sir.
i think that area will be a temporary stall area. price will eventually tread upwards.
but since i'm open-minded, i'm interested to see what price does in that area in a few hours or days --- within this week.
I'm watching this.
  • #42,899
  • Edited 8:53pm Sep 2, 2009 7:55pm | Edited 8:53pm
Quoting supremeChaos
PA setups do not always work --meaning, we cannot just trade every PB or BEOB that we see. in your chart's case, it could be a 'pause' PA -- a pause of the uptrend at that time.
(this isnt aimed at anyone specific - quoting SC because he gets it and put it so well)

Over the last week or three, I've seen alot of C, D, E and straight F trades posted. I get that the markets are in a bit of a sideways motion at the moment, but people are trying to trade crap.

Not just 'it isnt A++++, but it is still a great setup that will work again and again', but like absolute crap. Inside bars against the trend into big PPZs. Pin bars that look more like indecision bars and dont even protrude from the previous couple of bars. Breakouts into triple zero round numbers.

It seems to come from either inexperience, and not knowing what to look for in a great bar (which is fine, expected and you should read the thread and ask questions more), or overconfidence and thinking you are good enough to take marginal setups and manage them like a pro (in which case, you are usually deluding yourself).

I've been as guilty of the latter as much as anyone.

The whole point of this thread is that trading can be easy - if you make it easy for yourself. How do you do that? Take kickass setups in kickass locations with a bunch of confluence. Look at Jim's charts, or Mike's charts, or the other Jim's charts, or StoragePro's charts, or any of the long time guys. You dont have to search for what they are trading, or what the confluence is - it is obvious as hell. The bars jump out at you, bash you over the head, shove money into your wallet and then run off.

No brainer trades are where it's at. Forget trying to squeeze out that .13R trade to compound your account that tiny bit faster. I have better things to do with my time and money, and so do you.

It goes back to what Josh said, which really got me thinking. 90% of my losses are my own fault, and have come from getting myself into a difficult spot. Taking poor quality setups is how you get into difficult spots, and have to make difficult decisions. And making difficult decisions under pressure is how you lose money.

Be a sniper, not a drunk 12yo kid on the back of a pickup with a 12 gauge full of birdshot.

Sorry for the rant.
When you have to shoot, shoot. Dont talk.
  • #42,900
  • Sep 2, 2009 8:15pm Sep 2, 2009 8:15pm
AUD CAD large daily buob through pvz with the trend off of a couple fibs....what do ya think?
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May all your fits be loose.
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