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C4 Scalping

  • #8,161
  • Aug 28, 2009 1:08am Aug 28, 2009 1:08am
Quoting >Apocalypto<
This is crazy!

Above posts are really starting to paint a different picture

OMG!!
Yeah, it is really crazy!!!!

I just want to say a few words on this situation.

I'm one of the many readers of this thread. I believe very strongly that this method shown to all of us can work for me and I'm trying very hard to learn it.

However, I was(still is) very shocked to know the true background of the person who started this thread.

From trueblueTEX's posts, it also struck me that no real trades history were ever shown in this thread. Only lines and trades closed indicated on his charts.

I have a very strong believe that all the discussions of improving the method and reaching to the current stage of trading it come from the hard working,dedicated and intelligent FF members.For that I want to thank all those who had contributed to the improvements.

I also want to share the feeling of those being scammed...

If I loss money because the trading didn't turn out well, I can understand.This is part of the risk. However, if the balance of the account also disappeared with the trader, this cannot be accepted at all.
THIS IS DEFINITELY A SCAM !!!!!

I very much hope that the thread starter will be man enough to answer the accusations and prove otherwise. Doesn't look good at all at this point of time.

I strongly condemn scams & cheats !!!!!

Thanks
  • #8,162
  • Aug 28, 2009 1:24am Aug 28, 2009 1:24am
Quoting goldcourse
Yeah, it is really crazy!!!!


I have a very strong believe that all the discussions of improving the method and reaching to the current stage of trading it come from the hard working,dedicated and intelligent FF members.
In the original scalping system that ExpatXXXX taught us, he several times refered to the system as something like grammar school (I can't recall his exact analogy, now). What happened was a lot of members took Ex's stuff and ran with it making systems that were BETTER than Ex's.

Then we "graduated" to new levels, new indies and different ones all the time.

I remeber one guy in particular who had a penchant for DARK screens with PURPLE (I think he was banned from this thread, so if he's reading as a guest, he'll know who I'm talking about) candles. I called his sytem the Purple Pip Eater. It was HELL of a lot better than whatever grade level we were on as the master taught us.

If you traded with Ex's indies and you won, then the system was proven. If the indies lined up and you "pulled the trigger" (as he used to say a lot back then -- I see he changed that "push the detonator" LOL) and you LOST, well the problem was that you were "being too mechanical" with the system.

No, the reality was the indies were as predictive as a fortune cookie.

I wonder if the guy that made the Purple Pip Eater is still scalping with that system?

My point, goldcourse, is that Keith had crap for a system that a bunch of us perfected for him. Just like you seem to say in that quote above.

I don't know crap about C4 or Nitro, but beware the Master Teacher Trader who talks a bunch of zen crap about "you are not ready to learn the next level" or "well that earlier setup of indies wasn't the system, it was just to prepare you..."

If you can consistently make pips with it, good for you.

Just don't play grasshopper.

TEX
  • #8,163
  • Aug 28, 2009 1:38am Aug 28, 2009 1:38am
Quoting Edgetrader
Funds were liquidated and disbursed.
You know, Keith, you really should have just said, "I blew the account."

I wouldn't have bothered hunting up my password for FF to post.
  • #8,164
  • Aug 28, 2009 2:27am Aug 28, 2009 2:27am
Myself and business partner were also scammed by Keith Brown, Expatt, the baron or whatever else he calls himself.

We lost 5k, NO amount of money was returned to us.
  • #8,165
  • Aug 28, 2009 3:19am Aug 28, 2009 3:19am
What i don't understand is why someone would invest money in someone only based on their written word?
Even if Edgetrader is the good guy or the bad guy, it doesn't matter, giving away money to someone you never met or know nothing about is a gamble with a Reward-Risk of 0-100%.

I was hoping everyone at FF was here to Learn how to trade and share ideas with fellow traders, not to a place investments with someone from a forum with a funny avatar picture.

Hint to New traders, read book, read articles, demo trade, read more books, but respected books, not one with a flashy title.
A very well respected book is "Trade your way to financial freedom" by Dr. Van Tharp.
The title is misleading, but it will make you trade in a very different way, and if you don't after reading this book, yuo missed something, go read it again.
Legendary, REAL legends in the trading business says this book is on the top 3 of best books ever written about trading.
I don't know about you, but i would start there and start LEARNING for myself and stop just observing other people as they learn.

...and for F's Sake stop giving away money to make quick & easy cash!!
There's no such thing, to trade seems like easy cash, but you HAVE TO WORK HARD BEFORE YOU GET THERE... by... LEARNING and DEMOTRADING.

Good luck.


best wishes
Jesper
  • #8,166
  • Aug 28, 2009 7:14am Aug 28, 2009 7:14am
Quoting Jesper
What i don't understand is why someone would invest money in someone only based on their written word?
Even if Edgetrader is the good guy or the bad guy, it doesn't matter, giving away money to someone you never met or know nothing about is a gamble with a Reward-Risk of 0-100%.
Absolutely agree. On the other hand Jesper look how many people on here have been seduced into believing absolutely in the creator and his system.

The system has been set up and offered with astounding results, ON DEMO. The majority of people on here will never be able to trade it with real money simply because they have neither the funds or the balls required to do it. Once they start trying to trade this "less is more" strategy with its inherent drawdowns, most will fail. The alternative would be to hope the creator might do it for them as he appears to be doing it effortlessly every day (albeit also on demo probably). Hook. line and sinker!!!!

If the Expat/Keith situation hadn't unravelled I'd bet there would be countless people from this thread queuing up to give away $'000's to have the trading done for them because all they can see is what they want to see. They haven't done the basic maths.

Now that the Expat situation is public at least people have some idea of the pedigree of that person, the evidence of wrong doing brought here by some directly involved has not in any way been refuted or challenged convincingly. Only one conclusion can be drawn from that.

Anyone who believes the "less is more" concept will be profitable with C4 really needs to do the basic maths, then if necessary try trading it live even for small stakes in order to see the brutal reality of trading such.

This isn't to say that some of the alternatives discussed on the other "C4" threads are in the same category, far from it, those that saw through the 'less is more' but recognised the value of the indies have found much better strategies for trading them.
  • #8,167
  • Edited 8:02am Aug 28, 2009 7:34am | Edited 8:02am
Quoting trueblueTEX
In the original scalping system that ExpatXXXX taught us, he several times refered to the system as something like grammar school (I can't recall his exact analogy, now). What happened was a lot of members took Ex's stuff and ran with it making systems that were BETTER than Ex's.

Then we "graduated" to new levels, ...

talks a bunch of zen crap about "you are not ready to learn the next level" or "well that earlier setup of indies wasn't the system, it was just to prepare you..."

TEX

History doesn’t repeat?

I remember the story of the Canadian Dude. It was a thread where a lot of members helped to develop a good trading system. The Dude gave a little input, WE MEMBERS traded on demo and shared our results, the Dude took the results and decided in which direction WE MEMBERS should go on. Did he really or did WE MEMBERS do the work?

After weeks of testing and developing a few members asked uncomfortable questions. What happened? At once a few members since a short time were going to fight the questioners down – not often in fair manner but always with personal attacks.

And any idea which was not conform to the Dude’s system was smashed down by those new members with only few posts. And when you looked at their posts – they gave absolutely no input. All that these guardians did was to glorify the Dude and his system and to go in combat with uncomfortable questioners.

At the end the Canadian Dude lost his mask. No excuse, no explanation – he just went away and started to sell the trading system which others (WE MEMBERS) had developed. His fanatic followers and defenders disappeared also.

History doesn’t repeat?

TudorGirl, Codebreaker, Keith Brown, ExpatXXX … are they only case-by-case? Just take a look on Twee’s posts and you will see what I mean.


History doesn’t repeat?

There are very similar items to what you wrote in your posts Tex. Have WE MEMBERS developed C4 our self? Was the “next level” the result of what WE MEMBERS have tested? Have WE MEMBERS been manipulated by well chosen words and well positioned guardians?


On C4/NITRO Edge never offered funds … never asked for money ... but I still have to ask myself …

History doesn’t repeat?

I think WE MEMBERS have to be vigilant at any time a trading method is going to be postulated as the Holy Grail … and I think WE MEMBERS have to recognize that moment when greed becomes overwhelming to us.

In memory of a well known motto I have to consider:


--- Less is more ---


but often it can find a not-honourable end where


--- Nothing is best ---



Sorry that it ends the way it does.

If there are pips you can collect - just do it!
  • #8,168
  • Aug 28, 2009 7:51am Aug 28, 2009 7:51am
Quoting smjones
I'm just saying, be careful that what you write is what you mean.

BINGO !!!
  • #8,169
  • Aug 28, 2009 8:26am Aug 28, 2009 8:26am
It is indeed very disheartening to see what has developed on this thread. People want to believe. This, IMHO, is what makes religions flourish. People simply want to believe there's something better. Edge came here, displayed knowledge of trading, contended he traded full time and successflly, and people wanted to believe. A way for them to escape the rat race. Admittedly, I was in that camp, for awhile. I traded this with REAL funds....not much, but with real money, and never ever got the results that Edge and others boasted. Not many here can devote hours and hours to forex as wew have other jobs. I figured it was just me. That I was missing something. Once again, this is the way religion is. If you don't get it. If you don't go along with the crowd, the problem is with you, and not the system. The guru and those that claim similar enlightenment have a way of denigrating and ostracizing doubters, which effectively silences them. In the case of Indrek, he started a new thread. So did others. What does this say? It says humans are still trusting to a fault. It says there's pretenders and scammers out there, and we need to wary. As for the scammers and pretenders, you have to look in the mirror every morning. You know you're not as good as the rest of the human race, so you get back at them by scamming and lying to them.
  • #8,170
  • Aug 28, 2009 10:23am Aug 28, 2009 10:23am
I don't know anything about Edge. Didn't read his posts- they were too windy, so I don't really have an opinion.

I will say that there is no excuse for a person being taken in by the TudorGirl hoax. She (he, it) was an obvious fake from the second or third post on. Anyone who fell for that should be ashamed of themselves.
  • #8,171
  • Aug 28, 2009 10:30am Aug 28, 2009 10:30am
This is really turning into something bad, after reading all the stories of people being scammed.
Edge, if your Nitro is so good and you are so adapt at it, why not trade it yourself and generate the big profits as you have posted on the thread and use just a small portion of it to fully repay all these people?
This will be a win-win situation !
  • #8,172
  • Aug 28, 2009 12:35pm Aug 28, 2009 12:35pm
From well over a hundred visitors at any one time to just a trickle. I think "Nitro" blew up this thread. The shattered pieces are the people, now strewn all over FF, who placed their faith and hopes in someone who was not what he pretended to be. A man with obvious intelligence and command of the English language, robbing others of their hopes and dreams. Wasting their valuable time. Arrogant till the inglorious end, Attempting to defend the indefensible with his vebal acumen.
We thought you were different. We believed you had something others didn't. We placed our trust in you. All blown up in our faces, leaving us shocked and dismayed over what could have been, but wasn't.
  • #8,173
  • Aug 28, 2009 12:50pm Aug 28, 2009 12:50pm
Quoting paradoxical
From well over a hundred visitors at any one time to just a trickle. I think "Nitro" blew up this thread. The shattered pieces are the people, now strewn all over FF, who placed their faith and hopes in someone who was not what he pretended to be. A man with obvious intelligence and command of the English language, robbing others of their hopes and dreams. Wasting their valuable time. Arrogant till the inglorious end, Attempting to defend the indefensible with his vebal acumen.
We thought you were different. We believed you had something others...

yeah, paradoxical, I have read both your recent posts on this thread and I agree with you.

My faith in Edge started to slip when he posted the Nitro spreadsheet showing how he traded $5K to $83K in less than two months, with no losses!!!!!!

In a funny way though he has inspired people, he has got people believing that they can be profitable, and I do believe that some people are making consistant money with the scalping methods. Although the risk reward thing on scalping has me wondering if one can sustain it.

If you look at the threads that have been started with good people working towards developing and trading a good system, in some way Edge has done some good.

However, it does seem that he is not as good a trader as he made himself out to be.

...and I think that perhaps that Nitro spreadsheet that he posted was not true. ....$5k to $83K in less than two months with NO losses......I really, really, really, really doubt that is true.

So there are two possibilities.

1/ it is true.....if so, he has the money machine of all money machines
2/ it is not true, if it is not true, and he purposely posted these results we have to think why.

Tudorgirl was also "outed" and she was also posting fantastic, amazing results......was this just some weird game.....or was there more devious reason.

Unfortunately with the internet these peope just disappear and the arise from the ashes.....with a new name

Hmmmmm....be careful out there

PGPB

PS. For me the jury is still out, I do not know for sure one way or the other. I do think that if Edge is really innocent, then there are ways he could prove that he dispursed the funds. I try to not judge other people.
  • #8,174
  • Aug 28, 2009 1:10pm Aug 28, 2009 1:10pm
Quoting pgpb
there are ways he could prove that he dispursed the funds.
Not possible. There are 7 of us that experienced the outcome. 6 of us and 1 of him. There were 4 others that lost 2 or 3k (I believe) and got out before it completely went into the toilet.
  • #8,175
  • Aug 28, 2009 1:18pm Aug 28, 2009 1:18pm
I'm waiting to hear from some of the people who followed TudorGirl to her private forum.

That's where the sheep got sheared.

Are any of those people reading this?
  • #8,176
  • Aug 28, 2009 1:22pm Aug 28, 2009 1:22pm
Quoting paradoxical
From well over a hundred visitors at any one time to just a trickle. I think "Nitro" blew up this thread. The shattered pieces are the people, now strewn all over FF, who placed their faith and hopes in someone who was not what he pretended to be. A man with obvious intelligence and command of the English language, robbing others of their hopes and dreams. Wasting their valuable time. Arrogant till the inglorious end, Attempting to defend the indefensible with his vebal acumen.
We thought you were different. We believed you had something others...
That is the result ....

Quoting pgpb
yeah, paradoxical, I have read both your recent posts on this thread and I agree with you .....


Unfortunately with the internet these peope just disappear and the arise from the ashes.....with a new name

Hmmmmm.....
Just a suggestion for using an avatar for a new identity:


Attached Image
Attached Image
Attached Image



I'm really frustrated

If there are pips you can collect - just do it!
  • #8,177
  • Aug 28, 2009 1:23pm Aug 28, 2009 1:23pm
I think if you look back with a critical eye at the charts, there are numerous times that a trade was called for based on Edge's own rules. Some of the previous point this out, and I believe a response was made that sometimes judgement is needed, with additional comments that trading is 75% mental.
I've stated before that most everyone that frequents FF are using demo accounts to trade. Nothing wrong with that, except it's like comparing apples and oranges. The same thing with showing trades on a chart. A lot of cherry picking goes on, and trades that would have been losers are never highlighted. When those losing trades are pointed out, there's all kinds of reasons given that the trade doesn't qualify. Much of these reasons fall out of the given rules, and when pressed, the author of the system will say the trade wasn't taken based on experience, or a feel for price action, or because of X.
On a system where you go for 5 pips with a stop of over 20, a mere two losses means you need 8 wins just to break even not even counting the spread. I see some on this system were claiming 2 and 3 pip wins. That's fine. What about showing the 20 pip losses?
Are the people who contended they lost thousands lying? I doubt it. That means that even the author of the system couldn't make it work in LIVE trading, OR it means something far worse, that I won't allege in this post. But, the readers can infer their own meaning.
If the "master" can't make it work in live trading, what makes anyone think they could when it comes to plunking down $10.00 a lot and getting 3 quick losers in a row of 20 pips after getting 5 wins in a row of 5 pips? That would be a loss of $350.00 even though you went 5 and 3.
If it acts like a duck, looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it IS a duck. There's no more room for any benefit of the doubt when it comes to this duck.
  • #8,178
  • Aug 28, 2009 1:29pm Aug 28, 2009 1:29pm
Stubidol, you always have some GREAT photos, and are very skilled with photoshop or whatever program you use. Those were fake photos, weren't they? http://www.forexfactory.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
Quoting studbiol
That is the result ....



Just a suggestion for using an avatar for a new identity:


Attachment Attachment Attachment


I'm really frustrated

  • #8,179
  • Aug 28, 2009 1:59pm Aug 28, 2009 1:59pm
Quoting SamTIF
Edge, if your Nitro is so good and you are so adapt at it, why not trade it yourself and generate the big profits as you have posted on the thread and use just a small portion of it to fully repay all these people?
This will be a win-win situation !
Hi Sam,

I agree, this could be a very good solution to clean the monetary part of this situation, IF the reproaches against Edge are true and proven !
Or, if he burned this managed account cause of... Still the same!
It would be a question of honour...

But, what if the reproaches against Edge are not true at all? If this whole thing is only a communicational problem for example? OK, maybe not so realistic... But for me, possible too !!!
Whatīs about HIS reputation in this case?
It would be a question of honour too...

Really hard to make a decision if you donīt have any Proofs for real !!!

And judging other people just because of some unproofed reproaches of others... ??? Please study the german history 1933 - 1945... !!!

so long...
back to trading !!!
  • #8,180
  • Aug 28, 2009 2:15pm Aug 28, 2009 2:15pm
Quoting Toledo
I agree, this could be a very good solution to clean the monetary part of this situation, IF the reproaches against Edge are true and proven !
Or, if he burned this managed account cause of... Still the same!
No, Toledo, it would not be the same. I would have accepted it if Keith had blown the account.

Keith ceased communicating with all 6 of us partners in kbtrading while we each had at least 2k left (as best I can tell,since he moved the money to an account that none of us had access to.)

He never told us the account was blown. If you read back on page 542 or 543, one of the other partners posted Keith's last email to us. The email wherein he said that in February, he would liquidate the account and disburse the funds back to us.

That was his last contact.

He did not reply to us.

He did not say, "sorry, blew the account."

Then, in this thread he lied and told a member of this thread that the account was liquidated and disbursed.

If that is true, he did NOT disburse any of the money to any members of our partnership.

That begs the question of what he did with the money he got after liquidating the account!

Now, if he, instead, blew the account and there was just nothing in it in February, well then the LIED to member of this thread when he wrote that he liquidated and disbursed the funds.

It was that lie that prompted me to log in and post all of what I did!

He either blew it or he stole it. I was prepared to live with him blowing it.

Stealing it is another matter.
TEX
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