Market Makers & ECN’s, Is the grass greener?

ECN, mainly b/c 9 times out of 10, it presents an overall cheaper transaction environment than STP. Also, for my trading size, it is advantageous to analyze the current market depth when entering/exitting a trade, rather than rely on the unknown depth of an STP or DD broker.

I have posted this on other boards and this seems to be the best known info other than what has been posted here already between ECN's and market makers. this was written to me by a guy on youtube:

"After Listening to my Tips on Trading Videos, many people want to know how to choose a fare Forex Boker, and whether or not it is possible to trade successfully with a Market Maker who will offer them higher leverage than Electronic Commerce network (ECN) Brokers. Let me elaborate on the matter.

Yes, it is possible to trade successfully in the artificial trading environment created by a Market Maker, more with some than with others,(all of whom offer trades from their own liquidity pools), but it is much more challenging and of higher risk. To trade successfully with a Markwet Maker or with a counter trading liquidity provider who controls the trade platform they provide to the trader, requires an understanding of their counter trading position, their financial motivation, their self-preservation tactics, and how to compensate for them the best. Only by this can the trader learn to be able to win enough of the time and for long enough to become a successful trader in the artificail Forex market provided by counter trading brokerage services, whether through their personal dealing desk or through their liquidity providers directly.

Of course, since the client's trading successes are the counter trader's or Market Maker's losses, the higher the account leverage offered to or required by the trader from the counter trader, the greater the risk for that Broker, and therefore, the more tactical interference that Broker will create in order to protect his countertrading interest. If you are still successful enough at high leverage trading, despite their usual tactical sabotage, most, if not all Market Makers will eventually resort to more drastic measures to protect their interest, even if they end up being threatened with complaints to the National Futures Association (NFA) which could result in an investigation for unethical or dishonest Broker Dealer practices.

No Broker wants an investigation, so this is how the Brokers more drastic self-preservation methods will likely unfold.

The account is flagged to locking up the traders platform to prevent existing trade closer at a significant turning point in the market that will force the trade into the negative to close out at a loss, sometimes even a margin call. If and when you complain, the Broker will then claim that it is due to freak or periodic liquidity issues that are beyond the brokers control and that just need to be accepted as part of the risks of trading in the Forex, hoping that the trader will fall for this lie, accept responsibility, and give up the fight, which most ignorant naive traders do. If that deception doesn't work, then the broker may claim that their is nothing that he can do about it, hoping still that the client will still give up the fight. Many do just that. For those who still persist, he may try to accuse the client of using some kind of an unethical trading edge and that that he simply cannot allow unethical clients to be successful, or to trade any longer with their firm. If the client is now persistent, angry, and smart enough to threaten filing a claim with the NFA, the Broker will likely shift his tactical position to negotiating a settlement, offering a small fraction of the amount lost, in staed of the prospect of wading through a long drawn out investigation from the NFA that may or may not result in a favorable decision for the trader. Most remaining traders cave in at this point and accept some kind of offer to make an adjustment to their account, restore 10 to 30 percent of their loss. Afterall, the Broker will reason with them, if you are good enough to get this far with your account, then you could buiold it all back again, and much more, before you would ever get an answer to a complain to the NFA, right. This all makes perfect sence, accept the trader is somehow never able to experience the same kind of result with that broker service, either due to tactical manuvering from the Market Maker to prevent success, or by a combination of that and new emotional interference in the mind of the trader who is never able to get completely mentally accept the injustice of the settlement. until the trader finally realizes that the Broker new at the time of the settlememnt that this client/trader's account would forever more be flagged as a hiugh risk account, to be regularly sabotaged, never again to be allowed to be come so successful. Of course the Broker will have also had the trader sign a release, waiving the Broker of all responsibility, and even promising to never speak mof this incoident and of the settlement to anyone else, and to never file a complaint about it to the NFA. Alas, the complaint to the NFA would probably have been a more profitable choice, even if the investigation did take six months. Then again, it may have resulted in a much higher settlement offer from the Broker, perhaps even a full restoration of the losses in question to the traders account. Then, the Broker must decide whether or not to continue allowing the client to trade an account with him. Frankley, it is better to take your money somewhere else.

It is best to transition to an ECN Broker when once you are able to a sizeable enough accounbt with a market Maker. In a few cases, their are ECN Brokers or their Introducing Brokers (IBs) who will aloow a trader to open a rathyer small account, offering mini accounts with 10K unit sizes and fractional lot trading. You must watch out, however, for those Market Makers who attempt to present themselves as ECN Brokers by claiming to have no dealing desk, and to not take the counter trade position against you. Some Brokers are Market Maker wolves in ECN sheep's clothing, by sub-letting or delegating these Market Maker tactics to another, or by simply representing their liquidity provider's interests who is the one really offering the trades and who also controls the trade platform, spread rate variations and the power to manipulate the trade platform and the artificial market against the trader, designed to sabotage their trades. Don't be fooled.

Now, some of the most reasonable existing ECN Bokers, in order of the lowest account sizes available, are the following:

mbtrading.com ($400+)
efx.com (IB for mbt $500+)
pfgbestdirect.com (IB for pfg $1,000+ for my students)
atcbrokers.com (IB for hotspot $3,000+)
hotspot.com ($7,500+)
interactivebrokers.com ($10,000)
Other ECNs are higher

Of these and all other ECNs or their IBs, the best are those who will provide a neutral trade platform that acts as a blind bridge between the trader and the countertrader, preventing the counter trader from having control over the trade platform, keeping the countertrader from seeing what the trader is doing with each of his/her trades. IBs for ECNs tend to claim this capability/service and they are the ones who would be most motivated to stand by this claim if in deed it is completely true. They make much more money when the trader, their client, is successful.

The bottom line: If possible, The trader does not want the counter trader to have knowledge or control of three things:

1, the trader's trade platform to maniplulate the timing of trade entries, and especially trade exits.
2, the variable spread rate and the interpretation of a fast moving market that determins the justification for variation in spread rate.
3. knowlege of where the trader is placing his/her stops and limits.

Most traders do not have access to currenex platforms and to institutional trading, but these priviledges offer more competitive advantages and blind bridge services than the retail brokers. This requires more money in an account, and more experience as a trader to be worth that risk. Its better to start practicing live trading after you have proven a successfull trade plan in a demo account, and then to begin live trading with a very small amount of money until you have obtained the experience and ability to grow an account to enough to transition to higher account sizes, advantages, and priviledges.

To do this, you must have the right combination of education, proven trading skills and plans, self-discipline to stick to that plan as it has been refined under live trading.

There will never be a perfect broker. There will always be risks and the necesity of accepting losses. And, there will always be the traders emotions to manage, control, and to eliminate throught belief system and though pattern rewiring, re-establishment, and reconstruction. After all the rest, this is the ultimate challenge that every trader must face and overcome.

I hope this is helpful,

Stephen Story"

I will never go back to a market maker after being with 3 of the supposed "top mt4 brokers" but now I'm with mt4 + currenex and won't do differently ever again.

Hi guys I m new in the forum. Can anyone explain the difference between an ECN and an STP and ESP?

Has anyone had any experience with Invest Tech Fx www.investtechfx.com
Supposedly ECN with very low spreads. I've been demoing successfully but interested if anyone has had a live account and any feedback + or -

Thanks

No mention of ECN, no CFTC/NFA registration, site looks amateurish, 500:1 and 1-pip majors is a call-sign of the fraudulent, nearly an exact replica of Crown (which recently went belly up along with the client accounts).

This is the most candid & upfront post on brokers I've seen. Thanks to all who posted, keep up the good work!

So after having a conversation with someone at Invest Tech (which did take a series of leaving my number and waiting for a callback) they explained that they are a NDD company, not even actually a broker and that clients funds are deposited with Globex Interbank. I'm not familiar with this setup but i'm investigating. Anyone ever heard of this type of setup? and you're right no regulation either. apparently because they claim not to be a broker?

Now if only "Globex Interbank" was a broker anyone had heard of before, and not simply a website someone was running out of their London shoebox flat (let alone infringing upon CME Globex's trademark). I wonder if he also runs a website selling Sorny and Panaphonic gadgets.

http://i39.tinypic.com/2sbwgee.png

Ahh the infamous "Other Countries", too unimportant to be listed (or any address in USA/Canda/Europe other than the London shoebox).

The funny thing about these fly-by-night shops is they really fail at any attempt not to look like 2-bit operations..

So true! Basic Photoshop skills are lacking.

FXo, u seem to be the brain box here,I read ur thread, I've bn trading demo for long and I think it's high time I started trading real,d broker I have in mind is alpari,can I use alpari? or which broker would u suggest I use.

manuel FX: Alpari demo and live are 2 TOTALLY different beasts. Recently Live has been atrocious with constant requotes and slow execution, sometimes upto 20-30 seconds, and has put me off personally. But you may be luckier.

Also, they have started to widen spreads a few weeks after claiming to have reduced them (e.g EURGBP and EURCHF) which is inconsistent with a broker that TRUELY does have multiple feeds (as they claim)

Hello Manuel,
Unfortunately, I don't have any experience with alpari to share with you, so I cannot help there. I have not traded retail forex in a couple years, but when I did I was typically pleased with OandA. I have used about 5 or 6 other retail forex brokers in the past also, but none that would recommend in confidence.
Good Luck!

ECN is supposed to pass your orders straight to interbank market, so ECN should not trade against you.

HI, Hazel
please tell us which broker you use with mt4+currenex?
are bidges as bostonbidges worth consideration?
Which would be best choice to experience true ecn with mt4?

Thanks for great post,
Zojd

well I was with BroCo. i am now a lucky person to be a my4 beta tester for MBT. best spreads ever on mt4! but I would recommend fxcm uk right now. that's where i have a second account where i can have a hedge EA's at.

Wow I'm amazed with your post FxOpportunist. Where do you learn all that stuff?

When I wrote the initial post, I did the leg work. It was a combo of research, interviews and experience.

I am not a meta trader guy. So, I can't comment on that. I like charting systems like e-sig that have multiple customizable data sources.

Hello guys,

thank you all for your informations, they're really interesting, but I need a special advise if someone can, I wanna open an account with an ECN broker with $1000, so witch one should I take ? And if my capital is not enough, so what is your advise ? Witch broker is the most trusthfull ? And what do you think about MFGLOBALFX.CA ?

please help me, cause I'm really confused .

thanks .

Nice research here. I have been a loyal ECN Forex broker fan (MB Trading) but recently tried Oanda as well.
It is a near fair comparison. Both brokers and platforms have distinct advantages as stated in this article.
As Fxopportunist wrote, simplicity is best for people new to Forex.