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Where can I learn more about Price Action like those in James16 charts? 9 replies

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james16 Chart Thread

  • #41,561
  • Aug 19, 2009 6:50pm Aug 19, 2009 6:50pm
PB on GJ
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  • #41,562
  • Aug 19, 2009 6:54pm Aug 19, 2009 6:54pm
Quoting supermatt
I was just wondering if any of you combine 2 or 3 bars into one bar or if it is best just to stick to 1 bar at a time.
You could interpret this as a pin bar although its formed over 3 days. It still is reading price action and getting the same information that price has been rejected for a certain level in the market.

There was a post not long ago about this and I found it interesting as I never thought to visualize multiple bars forming into one. My only concern would be perhaps not every one views it like this and the signals of combining...
Hey there bro,

You can indeed to that, I personally don't do it as I think it leads to overtrading.

As for the chart you posted (I borrowed it and doodled on it a bit below here and made some examples - See Chart One ) it has indeed a "pin" type shape . . . kinda. But if you consider the last two "three day bars" then it becomes clear that the bar fails to justify the condition "nose must protrude from surrounding price"

Here are the points I would put forward for against combining bars (You will get people disagreeing with this though)

1) I think "a day" of data is viewed psychologically by people as a day, I know there is no official opening time or closing time in the Forex market as a whole, but I hazard a guess that most people have their own idea of roughly what time it opens and closes ie. Open before London open and close after NY session I would hazard a guess at.

2) Also, I see a lot of the 2-bar PA or whatever as just being another type of 1Bar PA, A two day bar pinbar is often just a bullish bar and an inside bar, so really if the location is good theres no reason to combine the bars.

My main argument however is thus -

3) If we start combining bars over custom periods, when will be stop ? Take a look at charts 2 and 3 I posted below. Every single chart out there right now can be classed as an Inside Bar, an outside bar or a pinbar just if you combine enough days together. Everything then will look like everything got rejected somewhere for some reason and solid analysis could be found for absolutely everything if we dig hard enough to find it.

Do we have a 3 day close every day ? When does the 3day bar start and finish ? Do two day bars open monday and close tuesday or open tuesday and close wednesday,

I just keep it simple by never combining bars for those reasons. It leads to confusion for me, and I like to keep things simple.

I am not claiming to be an authority on this whatsoever and I know people who combine bars and have good sucess with them, I unfortunately did not, probably due to being stupid . I am just describing my own opinion and what works for me.

At the end of the day it comes down to your personality as a trader and what you think works for you, you have to simply pick what helps and discard the rest.

Best regards and Godspeed,
Jig

Chart One - Your chart concerning the current 3 day pin.

Chart Two & Chart Three - Examples of other potential reads on the situation.

EDIT - I tried to "doodle" the price action on the charts in black but it kind of looks muddled amongst the other candles, Bah ! Just stare at it a minute I guess heh
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  • #41,563
  • Aug 19, 2009 7:08pm Aug 19, 2009 7:08pm
thanks for all your responses. I really love the point about when will you stop as there are endless opportunities of combining days to form what ever bar your mind wants to find lol.

I would also agree that all this analysis is based on what everyone else looks at and I would agree that its just better to stick with the simple and normal times such as a single day and week and not go to odd numbers that people dont watch as much.

I have been just dabbling in combining bars the last few days and I must admit it does my head in and confuses me more so I have just kept it simple again.

thanks all
  • #41,564
  • Aug 19, 2009 7:23pm Aug 19, 2009 7:23pm
supermatt,
i think it's ok to combine bars --just dont overdo it.
try 1 or 2 different (unconventional TFs) & stick to it for awhile.

btw, here's jarroo's recent response to a related question.
maybe u can start with 1 or 2 of these.
  • #41,565
  • Aug 19, 2009 7:36pm Aug 19, 2009 7:36pm
Quoting Eclipse
How much time do you spend a day monitoring the charts? And how many crosses do you look at? Do you even trade the 1 min. timeframe with the same method?
But most importantly: why aren't you able to trade higher timeframes with the same profitability?
Your answers could help me to understand some things. Thanks.

I watch charts about 2-3 hours a day max on the 5min. I get a feel for whats going on so I only have to check it out maybe every 30-45min and if I miss a few I really don't mind. On Forex you can trade the 1min but I don't care for it 5min for me is less chart time but I have done the 1min on the S&P e-mini without any issues.

About trading the higher times it's just not me, I tried it 2 times now and it works but it's too slow for me and It's not the money it's the holding a trade for 3 days to get stopped out, I am ADD bad I want to know in 15-30min if it worked or not, I don't care what happens I just want to know so I can plan the next setup. Also what I make in the 5min in 1 week takes about 2 months to do in the 4hr and I have the same or better win rate on the 5min because It trends almost daily, also if you watch 50 pairs on the 1 hour chart you look at just as many setups on the 5min with one pair per day so what is the differance?

Also I watch 1 pair, eur/usd best spread that's why I trade it.
Keep taking CT trades, I need more money
  • #41,566
  • Aug 19, 2009 7:40pm Aug 19, 2009 7:40pm
Quoting Ryanmcd
I watch charts about 2-3 hours a day max on the 5min. I get a feel for whats going on so I only have to check it out maybe every 30-45min and if I miss a few I really don't mind. On Forex you can trade the 1min but I don't care for it 5min for me is less chart time but I have done the 1min on the S&P e-mini without any issues.

About trading the higher times it's just not me, I tried it 2 times now and it works but it's too slow for me and It's not the money it's the holding a trade for 3 days to get stopped out, I am ADD bad I want to know in...
If you don't mind me asking, what is your 'record' compounding rate after 1 week on the 5 minute charts?
Don't wish it were easier, wish you were better. ~ Jim Rohn
  • #41,567
  • Aug 19, 2009 7:50pm Aug 19, 2009 7:50pm
Quoting supremeChaos
supermatt,
i think it's ok to combine bars --just dont overdo it.
try 1 or 2 different (unconventional TFs) & stick to it for awhile.
This is probably the best answer.

I think combining periods is fine, as long as you dont act a fool. After all, things like D1 and H4 are pretty arbitary anyways, with different brokers showing different bars even though they represent the same underlying price moves.

Price movement is a continuous thing, it isnt like orders are placed, and then everyone goes to get a coffee and waits for the next H4 bar to open before they place some more orders. So there shouldnt be any problem with us being a little more fluid and adaptable too.

Essentially, a pin is just a movement up and then a move back down (or vice versa), so whether it happens over one period, two periods or 5 periods shouldnt really matter.

The only complication comes when you are managing your trade. A 5 day pin is really a weekly pin, so do you manage it on the daily or weekly?

to be honest though, starting to 'read' the charts and think about whether a 3 day movement can combine into a pin bar is an intermediate-advanced topic. No need to confuse someone just starting out, they have enough to get their head around first!

(and, like mike said a few days ago - PPZ / SR levels are far more important than the exact PA patterns anyways)
When you have to shoot, shoot. Dont talk.
  • #41,568
  • Aug 19, 2009 7:56pm Aug 19, 2009 7:56pm
Quoting datogio
hard break, lets see what is she willing to give

Nice one datogio. 2 Day Usd/Cad PB

Quoting supermatt
I was just wondering if any of you combine 2 or 3 bars into one bar or if it is best just to stick to 1 bar at a time.
You could interpret this as a pin bar although its formed over 3 days. It still is reading price action and getting the same information that price has been rejected for a certain level in the market.

There was a post not long ago about this and I found it interesting as I never thought to visualize multiple bars forming into one. My only concern would be perhaps not every one views it like this and the signals of combining...

About the topic of combining Bars.

Jigsaw has made some good points about keeping it simple and that the pickiness of a combined bar (2 Week PB, 2 Day BEOB, etc.) does not leave us. We still have to have a great location, supporting confluences, how much Traffic, "This is Critical", the size compared to previous bars and/or the move up/down, etc.

The criteria of a high quailty setup still has to be met. Just because a combination of bars forms a PA formation does not make a setup. Other parts of the story has to be read.


What is a Weekly PB? Its a 5 Day PB. What's a 4 Hour PB? Four (1) hour bars combined together.
Indicators show the past. Price Action "Indicates" the future.
  • #41,569
  • Edited 8:20pm Aug 19, 2009 8:00pm | Edited 8:20pm
Wow! Will this 2.4600 on GBPNZD ever give it up? Sheesh!

Patience is definitely required here....will I get stopped out? Hmmmmm...

An ascending triangle on 4hr with a healthy dose of divergence is some solace anyways...omg...I think I'll die of old age before this trade plays itself out.

GregB
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  • #41,570
  • Aug 19, 2009 9:44pm Aug 19, 2009 9:44pm
Quoting LasVahGoose
If you don't mind me asking, what is your 'record' compounding rate after 1 week on the 5 minute charts?

To be honest I don't keep track of it, I think I would say 40% or so, all it takes is 4-5 winners with 2% risk and 8% reward. Right now I am just doing a 2% risk 4% reward but I just adjust with the range and how it trends. Also I adjust down too, if I lost 2% I adjust so it compounds nice and you never go broke. As of late I am hitting about 75% winners.

Monday was no trades.
Tuesday was 2 trades, 2% = 10 pips, killed one +12 pips the next got me +20
Today was 1 trade stopped @ cost.

So up about 6% this week, kind of slow but that's okay most people don't make 6% a month

And for the people who call Bullshit, please see my attached screen shots. Today's short would of worked out but it was getting late so I went to cost.
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Keep taking CT trades, I need more money
  • #41,571
  • Aug 19, 2009 9:50pm Aug 19, 2009 9:50pm
Quoting Ryanmcd
To be honest I don't keep track of it, I think I would say 40% or so, all it takes is 4-5 winners with 2% risk and 8% reward. Right now I am just doing a 2% risk 4% reward but I just adjust with the range and how it trends. Also I adjust down too, if I lost 2% I adjust so it compounds nice and you never go broke. As of late I am hitting about 75% winners.

Monday was no trades.
Tuesday was 2 trades, 2% = 10 pips, killed one +12 pips the next got me +20
Today was 1 trade stopped @ cost.

So up about 6% this week, kind of slow but that's okay most...
I have been investing since I got out of college in 2000. Mutual Funds (Roth IRA, 401k, etc.) and also rental properties with my brother.

I don't think to this date I have made 6% in over 9 years.

Great to see you around here Ryan, you are an inspiration!
  • #41,572
  • Aug 19, 2009 9:53pm Aug 19, 2009 9:53pm
Quoting unlv_tj
I have been investing since I got out of college in 2000. Mutual Funds (Roth IRA, 401k, etc.) and also rental properties with my brother.

I don't think to this date I have made 6% in over 9 years.

Great to see you around here Ryan, you are an inspiration!

Ya that's why I put up the screen prints lol. It just takes BALLS to not freak out on the amount you are trading with.
Keep taking CT trades, I need more money
  • #41,573
  • Aug 19, 2009 10:45pm Aug 19, 2009 10:45pm
Quoting Ryanmcd
Ya that's why I put up the screen prints lol. It just takes BALLS to not freak out on the amount you are trading with.
Not balls...just trusting your system and sticking with it even after a loser or two. Nice, Ryan, thanks for the post. Definitely inspirational as mentioned, you shouldn't underestimate your contribution to this family, even if its the same ole same ole. Theres a lot of insight you provide as a trader that "made it" that aren't necessarily related to entries/exits and trading system info. IMHO that is just as valuable as the trading mechanics itself.

My one question is...after a certain equity level, you don't need more than a certain % per month to get great gains in terms of $. So wouldn't it make sense that after you build your account using the smaller TFs, you move to the larger TFs just for less frequent trades, and less time spent trading? I totally understand that if you have a 10k-20k account, building the acct using the 5min and super gains per week makes good sense, but what about after you have a large account? I guess you could just take 3-5 5min trades per month, just like you could take 3-5 dailys per month and be fine. Hmmm.
  • #41,574
  • Aug 19, 2009 11:08pm Aug 19, 2009 11:08pm
Quoting vijay s.
Not balls...just trusting your system and sticking with it even after a loser or two. Nice, Ryan, thanks for the post. Definitely inspirational as mentioned, you shouldn't underestimate your contribution to this family, even if its the same ole same ole. Theres a lot of insight you provide as a trader that "made it" that aren't necessarily related to entries/exits and trading system info. IMHO that is just as valuable as the trading mechanics itself.

My one question is...after a certain equity level, you don't need more than a certain % per...

I will say after being a loser for 5+ years I am going to take all that I can out of this market I know I could just do the weekly if I really wanted to but then I would not have anything to do. It maybe a ego thing now but I sure love winning, it's not even the money, it's the years of not understanding why I was losing and losing 90%+ for YEARS that pissed me off and I don't trade out of spite because after a few thousand trades you know if it works or not even if I get 20 losses in a row I know it works.

Think about this, even if it's not about the money do you not smile when you are right and right may not be a winner, hell I get more excited when I get stopped at cost and it would of took my 10 pip stop out lol. Maybe I am different then everyone else but I don't think I will ever quit the market just because it was such a pain in the ass to get it down and I really do enjoy it. If I did not I would not be posting here to random people that I will never talk to.
Keep taking CT trades, I need more money
  • #41,575
  • Aug 19, 2009 11:11pm Aug 19, 2009 11:11pm
What turned you from a loser to a winner, if you don't mind
Quoting Ryanmcd
I will say after being a loser for 5+ years I am going to take all that I can out of this market ...
  • #41,576
  • Aug 19, 2009 11:32pm Aug 19, 2009 11:32pm
Quoting Jlr
What turned you from a loser to a winner, if you don't mind
Having a mentor help me for over a year, spend 100s of hours on the phone and well over 1000 e-mails. I was in luck, I helped him with some computer code work and he said he was going to teach me what he knew because he had cancer and if he passed I would help his son trade. He is still alive today and we chat from time to time, he enjoyed teaching me and I ended up helping him on some setups after I got good at it. It was just a luck thing to be honest, right place at the right time. I guess that is how always helping people out has paid off.

BUT after learning how the setup works and you start making money you have a different set of things to deal with, that is Risk and emotion and if you never talk about either you are not trading big because you will not get big unless you understand that and overcome it.

Also what J16 has added is a little more price action, now I trade 3 setups not just my old 2. PBs with trend, PBs with CT and Rsi divergence at extremes with divergence called "The Rope" or at least that's what my old mentor call it, also don't ask about the rope not going to post it but the other 2 setups can make you rich as well.
Keep taking CT trades, I need more money
  • #41,577
  • Aug 19, 2009 11:32pm Aug 19, 2009 11:32pm
Ryan,

You really draw my attention here. Congraduation for your success in daytrading. Yes, it really interested me about your experience and the history of turning failure into success.

I am still lacking some faith in believing that "even if I get 20 losses in a row I know it works". And have the negative attaching thinking of "even the method works, when I trade I will lose". I can see objectively price action and s/r are working definitely, but I am currently paralysed by fear and just observed the trade platform and see those method works again and again, but cannot trigger a trade.

Please continue to share your experience here!

kk
  • #41,578
  • Aug 19, 2009 11:36pm Aug 19, 2009 11:36pm
Ryan,

This is not luck. To be honest, this is persistence, how many people tried once or twice or loss less than 10% of their wealth and will never return to the market. You failed for years and insist to try again and again. You just deserve the success!

kk

Quoting Ryanmcd
Having a mentor help me for over a year, spend 100s of hours on the phone and well over 1000 e-mails. I was in luck, I helped him with some computer code work and he said he was going to teach me what he knew because he had cancer and if he passed I would help his son trade. He is still alive today and we chat from time to time, he enjoyed teaching me and I ended up helping him on some setups after I got good at it. It was just a luck thing to be honest, right place at the right time. I guess that is how always helping people out has paid off....
  • #41,579
  • Aug 20, 2009 12:03am Aug 20, 2009 12:03am
Quoting Ryanmcd
To be honest I don't keep track of it, I think I would say 40% or so, all it takes is 4-5 winners with 2% risk and 8% reward.
So up about 6% this week, kind of slow but that's okay most people don't make 6% a month
I really appreciate the response, thank you. I'm glad your old mentor beat the big "C" or at least putting up the fight. I know this is off topic and none of my business, but did the son ever take up trading?
Don't wish it were easier, wish you were better. ~ Jim Rohn
  • #41,580
  • Aug 20, 2009 1:27am Aug 20, 2009 1:27am
Good morning ghous.

So i have this thing in my mind that these 2 (1 before LONDON and next one with TOKYO+LONDON) hours set the tone for the day and at LONDON close the trend of the day gets dry. i let it effect my trades.

what do you think guy's.
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