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Where can I learn more about Price Action like those in James16 charts? 9 replies

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james16 Chart Thread

  • #39,221
  • Jul 29, 2009 7:20am Jul 29, 2009 7:20am
Thanks supremeChaos,

Yes, you are right. Nevertheless, as far as it is visually within the previous bar, I treat it as PB, since I think it is not an accurate science. The pinbar is for sure triggered, with an offset of more than 10 pips.

It would be very complicated if considering the bar at the higher-timeframe and "the other" considerations may be unlimited, non-standard and subjective.

Thanks a lot,

KK

P.S. A similar but one also happened at the same time.

Quoting supremeChaos
kk007,
1. the "PB" has closed below the PB bar's open & seemed to have closed below the previous bar's low instead of within the previous bar & above the PB bar's open. & depending on where u place your entry, this PB barely triggered. in short, this was technically not a PB. Do review the PriceActionSetups.pdf
2. this is the H1 chart. H1 & below charts are "faster" charts compared to the recommended H4 & up charts. it takes a lot of practice & experience to trade below H4 charts.
3. u have entered the...
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  • #39,222
  • Jul 29, 2009 7:37am Jul 29, 2009 7:37am
So far all I have gotten down and comfortable doing is pin bars on the daily at appropriate confluence lines, but those hardly never come around. What is the next play I should try and learn?
Dr. C
  • #39,223
  • Jul 29, 2009 7:39am Jul 29, 2009 7:39am
Quoting fat_tom
SupremeChaos,

Yes you are right I am effectively demoing with a tiny acct.. and nice to know I'm in good company with Mike here!!

However I believe I am learning by doing no trades.... learning patience!!!!

Oh and I am being productive (or at least my Boss thinks so.... )

at least when I'm not on here that is!! LOL

happy trading all

Tom
TOM! 1 good news, we are nearing the end of month!
Recently I got a lot of break-even trades too, nothing really gave away!
Hope we will have alot of fun in the post-summer season
"""" --- -- - << ..:: ALM ::.. >> - -- --- """"
  • #39,224
  • Jul 29, 2009 7:40am Jul 29, 2009 7:40am
Quoting Ryanmcd
Yesterday's trades, 5min fun stuffs.
hey Ryan,

why on your charts do you always state 5 risk?

the pinbar on the counter trade was 10 pips long?

thanks
  • #39,225
  • Jul 29, 2009 7:46am Jul 29, 2009 7:46am
Quoting cvcamper
So far all I have gotten down and comfortable doing is pin bars on the daily at appropriate confluence lines, but those hardly never come around. What is the next play I should try and learn?
Try demoing the 4Hr to get the feel for this shorter tf(3 month)-->see, if you are comfortable with this and profitable. It is always about your style and whether you're comfortable. BTW keep on trading the daily(why should you miss any good trades on dailies, if there is any).

Trade live only when you are comfortable with the tf
"""" --- -- - << ..:: ALM ::.. >> - -- --- """"
  • #39,226
  • Jul 29, 2009 7:55am Jul 29, 2009 7:55am
Quoting fat_tom
No trades on the dailys this week so far or late last week for that matter...

oh well just a bit slow I guess or am I missing something?

<... slips back into the reeds...>

Tom

Hi what did you think of the daily pin bar on Aud Usd from yesterday?

Not the best pin bar on my charts, but looks like its hitting an important level on the weekly charts. I was thinking of waiting for a retrace and then maybe enter.
  • #39,227
  • Jul 29, 2009 8:10am Jul 29, 2009 8:10am
Quoting bfd
Hi what did you think of the daily pin bar on Aud Usd from yesterday?

Not the best pin bar on my charts, but looks like its hitting an important level on the weekly charts. I was thinking of waiting for a retrace and then maybe enter.
bfd,

I was tempted but it didn't technically close as a pin on my feed (Alpari UK) and the bar close was very close to halfway between the days high low so far from A trade. I really *wanted* to take it but knew I shouldn't - when I woke up this morning I knew I had made the right choice.

It is at a good point but until I see clear PA I won't trade it (daliy or weekly)... not saying its not right to - just not right for me to.. if that makes sense!!

Don't get me wrong I have no doubt there is a trade in there somewhere and pips to be made but I know my level of experience and I'm learning so sticking to the rules...

As I said in an earlier post this is about developing patience as well which is (IMO) just as important as all the technical PA PPZ etc technical skills.. I hope to learn both!!!

Tom
  • #39,228
  • Jul 29, 2009 8:10am Jul 29, 2009 8:10am
Quoting kk007
....
Yes, you are right. Nevertheless, as far as it is visually within the previous bar, I treat it as PB, since I think it is not an accurate science. The pinbar is for sure triggered, with an offset of more than 10 pips....
Ahhh. so u are a versatile mathematician.
but be sure u are aware of possible "consequences": sometimes the markets are lenient & allow not-so-technically-perfect/correct PA's (PB, etc), sometimes the market hates/punishes technically poor PA setups.
if it was triggered, then it was good for 5-15pips, hitting the July28 H1 bar highs around 1.4180-ish (H1 bar lows on $chf @ 1.0730-ish)

To be "safe", it would be best to memorize the technically correct PA setups ( PriceActionSetups.pdf ), then be/go "versatile" afterwards.
keep it up!



Quote
What is the next play I should try and learn?
cvcamper,
try PB's on swing highs/lows.... with/ w/out confluence, divergence, Round number, PPZ, etc
try BUOB, BEOB's on them too.
review these PA setups in the previous months as to how they went about.
view & review all the free videos on the j16 PF guest section.
Copy, view & review all the charts of the seasoned traders here.
Do all these all over again.
So, u got your hands full now.... heheheh
  • #39,229
  • Jul 29, 2009 8:28am Jul 29, 2009 8:28am
Quoting FOURX
hey Ryan,

why on your charts do you always state 5 risk?

the pinbar on the counter trade was 10 pips long?

thanks

Post up a pic of what you are talking about.
Keep taking CT trades, I need more money
  • #39,230
  • Edited 8:55am Jul 29, 2009 8:43am | Edited 8:55am
SupremeChaos,

Thanks. happy to share my opinion with you here.

While the other features of the pinbar was excellent, the close of the nose miss the eye for 1.6 pips, I don't think it is significant. The reversal is very clear indeed.

The s/r of chf 1.0730 looks a bit clear, but not the 1.4180 gbp. and I could not really treat 1.4180 as a s/r coz of the relative size of the pinbar.

kk


Quoting supremeChaos
Ahhh. so u are a versatile mathematician.
but be sure u are aware of possible "consequences": sometimes the markets are lenient & allow not-so-technically-perfect/correct PA's (PB, etc), sometimes the market hates/punishes technically poor PA setups.
if it was triggered, then it was good for 5-15pips, hitting the July28 H1 bar highs around 1.4180-ish (H1 bar lows on $chf @ 1.0730-ish)

To be "safe", it would be best to memorize the technically correct PA setups ( PriceActionSetups.pdf ), then be/go "versatile" afterwards.
keep...
  • #39,231
  • Jul 29, 2009 8:56am Jul 29, 2009 8:56am
kk007,
1.4180-ish is the bar highs on july28 on your chart. u can say that it was a PPZ (a range/zone) of 1.4180 - 1.42. the current downmove was so strong that price only manage to touch the lower part of that zone (1.4180 area).
try to view H4 & up charts to see if 1.4180 - 1.42 zone was of any significance. (on my chart, i have just checked... 1.4175-80 is the closest minor PPZ to the 1.4180 - 1.42 zone we are discussing above; this minor PP goes all the way back to around May29/30, 2009)


PS. just to be clear with everyone, we are talking of eur$ here, not gbp.
  • #39,232
  • Jul 29, 2009 9:00am Jul 29, 2009 9:00am
Quoting Ryanmcd
Post up a pic of what you are talking about.
Ryan,your chart on post#39151, i'm just curious whether you always use a set stop loss?

thanks
  • #39,233
  • Jul 29, 2009 9:01am Jul 29, 2009 9:01am
I missed this one this morning, but nice RSI divergence and support off the 150EMA
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  • #39,234
  • Jul 29, 2009 9:06am Jul 29, 2009 9:06am
Quoting cvcamper
So far all I have gotten down and comfortable doing is pin bars on the daily at appropriate confluence lines, but those hardly never come around. What is the next play I should try and learn?
BUOBs and BEOBs at confluence.



Quoting kk007
I have this very nice H1 pinbar failed. It pierces a major S/R. Any comment?
I put this down the main reason as being countertrend here as the reason why it failed, when your trading 1HR you have to be certain of super strong levels especially countertrend, you will get way more pinbars like this that fail out.

Shit happens and losses happen though, I trade hourlies and always am at 1:1 and my win rate lately hovers around 68-72%. So I mean losses happen, I am never concerned about pinbars failing or stuff failing once I have my rules. I am more concerned about staying disciplined and sticking to my rules because I know over the long term I have an edge on the market.

If you get me ?

Quoting Ryanmcd
I never looked at the outside bars as it seems you would take on more risk due to a bigger stop, throw up a chart if you dont mind of a few.
Hmmm,

Well it depends, say for the EURUSD I have a SL of 9 and a TP of 40. I risk .5% a trade.

Heres the surf from the EURUSD for the last two days.

Chart One - is today

Chart Two - is from yesterday.

J16 Outside bars as triggers.

Standard stuff as utilised by yourself, something to define the trend - 21ema and 50sma.

Anything will do for this, I have gotten similar results with the Cobraforex THV Coral indicator, Trendmagic, Supertrend. All of those indicators work fine once it's kept simple and losses are accepted. Sometimes I just eyeball the highs and lows, it's all the same thing really.

I never trade countertrend EXCEPT if the PA is pierced by already defined major PPZ's where I am certain theres order flow built up there.

Trend is your friend + Good RR = Outside bars work out fine in my experience.

EDIT - Apologies for small chart sizes, trading away from home = trading on a 10inch webbook lol
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  • #39,235
  • Jul 29, 2009 9:11am Jul 29, 2009 9:11am
Quoting kk007
I have this very nice H1 pinbar failed. It pierces a major S/R. Any comment?
Hi Kk007,

Chaos made some valid points,

Abt the Usd/Chf...

Here's what I think:

Why do you think James wants you to stick to higher time frames first?
Why do you think Ryan is comfortable with having 15 pips 20 pip take profit levels when he could hold on to some of those "with the trend" 5 min setups for hundreds of pips.

Yes the pin bars on 1H still do what they are known for doing on the higher time frames but there is a BIG difference,

Notice how the same move on daily could have yielded some 40-50 points on a normal pair and some 100 pips or so on Gj perhaps,

If this exact setup had occurred on daily and you entered exactly where you did and the move lasted exactly as long as in the 1H case, should you have seen a 50-100 pip gain become a looser? If you know J16 stuff well you would not

On the 1H the move was abt 15 pips, and you're looking at it as a looser only because you're far from understanding the psychology of lower time frame trading.


There is more to lower time frame trading than just tackling with noise and making quick decisions. Which is why for PA traders it is best to hang around the highers for as long as they master them at least, before venturing into the more turbulent 1H setups.

Ask Ryan, and he'll tell you the trade was a winner!

Usd/Chf gave off a good pin and it did what it should have...the tricky part here was to understand that 15 pips is a great win for a 1H trader. Something a trader on daily will take some time to understand...

The Eur/Usd failed Pin bar setup was probably a genuine looser and Chaos made some great points abt why it was a mdeiocre setup.

And then again as jig said shit happens.

Trading the lower time frames even with the same tools can be quite different than trading the higher time frames and require loads and loads and LOADS of practice.

Ghous.
Attached Images
I believe . . .
  • #39,236
  • Edited 9:26am Jul 29, 2009 9:14am | Edited 9:26am
Quoting Jigsaw
BUOBs and BEOBs at confluence.

Completely agree!

Cvcamper,

Wouldn't advise you to go down the time frame ladder just yet...

Ghous.
I believe . . .
  • #39,237
  • Jul 29, 2009 9:15am Jul 29, 2009 9:15am
Supremechaos,

Thanks for reply again.
Do you think the down trend is strong, as shown on the chart?

If I have to consider PPZ of that strength (in relation to the length of the pinbar) as a stop, I would have to have profit target of very small each time. This will make my trading risk very high, and perhaps it may be better to have an occasional failed pinbar instead. I can see the failure rate of a pinbar of such quality is low.

sorry it is eur/usd.

cheers,

kk

Quoting supremeChaos
kk007,
1.4180-ish is the bar highs on july28 on your chart. u can say that it was a PPZ (a range/zone) of 1.4180 - 1.42. the current downmove was so strong that price only manage to touch the lower part of that zone (1.4180 area).
try to view H4 & up charts to see if 1.4180 - 1.42 zone was of any significance. (on my chart, i have just checked... 1.4175-80 is the closest minor PPZ to the 1.4180 - 1.42 zone we are discussing above; this minor PP goes all the way back to around May29/30, 2009)


PS. just to be clear with everyone, we are talking...
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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  • #39,238
  • Jul 29, 2009 9:19am Jul 29, 2009 9:19am
Jigsaw,

Thanks for your reply.

70% sound a reasonable and excellent target for H1 1:1.

Thanks for giving me your record.

cheers,

kk


Quoting Jigsaw
BUOBs and BEOBs at confluence.





I put this down the main reason as being countertrend here as the reason why it failed, when your trading 1HR you have to be certain of super strong levels especially countertrend, you will get way more pinbars like this that fail out.

Shit happens and losses happen though, I trade hourlies and always am at 1:1 and my win rate lately hovers around 68-72%. So I mean losses happen, I am never concerned about pinbars failing or stuff failing once I have my rules. I am more concerned about staying disciplined...
  • #39,239
  • Jul 29, 2009 9:22am Jul 29, 2009 9:22am
Quoting layton
I missed this one this morning, but nice RSI divergence and support off the 150EMA
layton,
the correct way to plot divergences is to plot on the same side:
if u plot above the price highs, u will plot over the highs of the oscillator/indicator as well.
  • #39,240
  • Jul 29, 2009 9:24am Jul 29, 2009 9:24am
Oh ok.

Thanks for info!


Quoting supremeChaos
layton,
the correct way to plot divergences is to plot on the same side:
if u plot above the price highs, u will plot over the highs of the oscillator/indicator as well.
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