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Make Your Own Road

  • #1
  • First Post: Jul 19, 2009 1:47am Jul 19, 2009 1:47am
In one of his posts, Jay walker said “I prefer to be wrong on my own terms, than be right on yours". Or, "I'd rather be wrong with my own trades than be right with yours".

And I believe both lines make a whole lot of sense.

P.S.: I would love to participate on a thread dedicated to this topic. I believe it would be of great help to many.

Everyone is now invited to start posting on this topic. However, I would humbly request let’s wait for Jay to take the second post on this thread..
The Thief of Wall Street
  • #2
  • Edited 2:25am Jul 19, 2009 2:18am | Edited 2:25am
Thanks Chicky,

Bemac got my mind going and I pretty well said my piece already so this will be a repost. If anyone wants me to elaborate on some of some items I've said, you are welcome to post your questions.

All of us have fears. Fear of rejection for example. Or fear of being judged. If you don't believe me, think back to when you first asked someone on a date. I know I didn't want her to judge me or reject me. And I believe it's fair to say that most people felt the same.

Traders deal with the fear of being wrong. If you've been trading for a while, it doesn't mean you're fearless. It just means that you've learned how to handle that fear, to get over it.

Similarly, a parachute jumper will have a boatload of fear on his first jump. On his hundredth or thousandth, he will still have fear. But you better believe he won't scream as hard. Or if he does, it won't be out of fear this time.

So how do you become independent of those Willy Nilly FF Recommendations to Buy or Sell?

Simple. You don't.

You don't become independent of it no more that you become fearless. You just learn to Deal With It. Some will call it "Getting over it". You don't ignore it. You can't! If you do, you'll do nothing but adding people on your ignore list and you'll wind up looking like you're the sole poster in every thread!

What I do to deal with it to to remind myself of a choice. The choice is that I am the one control my own trade. If I follow the Willy Nilly recommendation of someone, there are two possibilities. Either the trade turns a profit or a loss.

If the trade ends up at a profit? Do I thank Willy Nilly publicly? Do I tell him he's awesome? Do I send him a commission check? Will that make me a better trader?

If it's at a loss, do I get to blame him publicly? Tell him that he sucks? Will that make me a better trader?

Who's got control of that trade? Me or Willy Nilly? Who stands to gain or lose from it? Me or Willy Nilly?

The truth is none of the options I mentioned will make me a better trader. And if I'm not becoming a better trader, I have no reason to be here at forexfactory.com. Following Willy Nilly's advice will make my trade a losing one EVEN IF IT'S AT A PROFIT!

I'd rather be in the driver's seat.

I like Bemac's signature tagline "I AM ALWAYS IN CHARGE. At least of My Own Coin"

I have my own tagline. It's "I prefer to be wrong on my own terms, than be right on yours". Or, "I'd rather be wrong with my own trades than be right with yours". The two are interchangeable.

 And I believe both lines make a whole lot of sense.
Not all sins are created equal
  • #3
  • Edited 3:37am Jul 19, 2009 3:31am | Edited 3:37am
Quoting Jay Walker
Thanks Chicky,

Bemac got my mind going and I pretty well said my piece already so this will be a repost. If anyone wants me to elaborate on some of some items I've said, you are welcome to post your questions.

[size=2][font=Arial]All of us have fears. Fear of rejection for example. Or fear of being judged. If you don't believe me, think back to when you first asked someone on a date. I know I didn't want her to judge me or reject me. And I believe it's fair to say that most...
Thanks Jay,

It was a very good idea to start a thread on this topic. Everytime I study a chart, wonder how come either a seller or buyer could lose in a market that moves in both directions, filling most gaps.

That means there is something more to trading than just getting the right direction. And what direction? Different timeframes show different trend directions.

I know a very successful horse breeder, owner and trainer. He always preferred to ride himself on his horses in a cup or major races. He would jog miles and miles every day and drink green tea to reduce his weight in order not to destroy his horse's handicap. We are like that person, should ride our own horses, learn as much as possible, stumble, fall, get up and try again.

One Mughal King "Taimur" unsuccessfully attempted 16 times to capture an Indian fort that had tons of gold inside. It was not a good thing to attack some country to steal their treasure, however, I give this example just to motivate traders still struggling. He was very disappointed and was thinking day and night how to conquer Somnath (that fort). One day while taking bath in a pool he saw an ant trapped in the pool. He observed the ant. The ant made several attemps to get out of the pool, it failed everytime and dropped back into water. But it kept on trying again and again and finally was able to get out of the pool. Taimur learned power of persistency from that ant and finally was able to conquer that fort in his 17th attempt.
The Thief of Wall Street
  • #4
  • Jul 19, 2009 11:16am Jul 19, 2009 11:16am
The Yin / Yang of trading is Profitable / Unprofitable. There is nothing else that matters.

Whether you blaze your own trail or take an existing trail, all that matters is your P/L at the end of your journey.

To focus on anything else is not trading.
  • #5
  • Jul 19, 2009 2:27pm Jul 19, 2009 2:27pm
Quoting gbppip
The Yin / Yang of trading is Profitable / Unprofitable. There is nothing else that matters.

Whether you blaze your own trail or take an existing trail, all that matters is your P/L at the end of your journey.

To focus on anything else is not trading.
Lol - you always seem to make things sound so simple. I like simple.

Hi Chicky - I've been trading what I see for a long time now. I like to flick through the threads in the forum and see what everyone else is saying or seeing but it is always my decision to enter and exit a trade. I do find it a little uncomfortable though when I see traders that I respect calling the opposite
Nothing worth having is easy.
  • #6
  • Jul 19, 2009 2:43pm Jul 19, 2009 2:43pm
Quoting Patience
Lol - you always seem to make things sound so simple. I like simple.

Hi Chicky - I've been trading what I see for a long time now. I like to flick through the threads in the forum and see what everyone else is saying or seeing but it is always my decision to enter and exit a trade. I do find it a little uncomfortable though when I see traders that I respect calling the opposite
Patience, you feel uncomfortable ...... but it used to give me chill, but now don't care much about it. Because, there is much more to a trade than just the direction, for example, timeframe, risk%, one time or gradual entries, sl or tp, are you putting at risk the capital or accumulated profit, etc. etc.
The Thief of Wall Street
  • #7
  • Jul 19, 2009 3:08pm Jul 19, 2009 3:08pm
Quoting Chicky
In one of his posts, Jay walker said “I prefer to be wrong on my own terms, than be right on yours". Or, "I'd rather be wrong with my own trades than be right with yours".

And I believe both lines make a whole lot of sense.

P.S.: I would love to participate on a thread dedicated to this topic. I believe it would be of great help to many.

[color=black][font=Arial]Everyone is now invited to start posting on...

hi all,

traders who r not confident about the decisions they make during trading. will seek out other traders opinion. they just want 2 make sure that they r making the correct decision. just 2 be on the safe side.

u can see this in the e/u thread. happens everyday without fail. 1 reason is also that humans have a herd mentality. much like a person who chooses 2 live in solitute r seen as a weirdo by the society. also, most society teach people that there is a huge price 2 pay if u r wrong. hence the fear of getting the short end of the bargain.

the above highlighted sentence does not apply 2 most people frequenting ff. just post a trading spreadsheet showing your stellar results of getting hundreds of pips a day. your pm box will explode. thanks
  • #8
  • Jul 19, 2009 3:31pm Jul 19, 2009 3:31pm
Quoting winningfx
hi all,

traders who r not confident about the decisions they make during trading. will seek out other traders opinion. they just want 2 make sure that they r making the correct decision. just 2 be on the safe side.

u can see this in the e/u thread. happens everyday without fail. 1 reason is also that humans have a herd mentality. much like a person who chooses 2 live in solitute r seen as a weirdo by the society. also, most society teach people that there is a huge price 2 pay if u r wrong. hence the fear of getting the short end of...
I agree. Even some very experienced traders want to know what others are thinking and why. But they do critically check others' analysis.

There is an example of such practice in Reminiscences of a Stock Operator, when a trader did exactly the opposite of what a tipster came up with, just to check validity of the tip.
The Thief of Wall Street
  • #9
  • Jul 19, 2009 3:44pm Jul 19, 2009 3:44pm
Quoting Chicky
I agree. Even some very experienced traders want to know what others are thinking and why. But they do critically check others' analysis.

There is an example of such practice in Reminiscences of a Stock Operator, when a trader did exactly the opposite of what a tipster came up with, just to check validity of the tip.

hey, i remember that part. just can't remember the name of the big shark. seeing how fx bucketshops r screwing traders trades. we can know that there r alot of " boy plungers " around. hahahaha
  • #10
  • Edited 3:58pm Jul 19, 2009 3:58pm | Edited 3:58pm
Quoting winningfx
hey, i remember that part. just can't remember the name of the big shark. seeing how fx bucketshops r screwing traders trades. we can know that there r alot of " boy plungers " around. hahahaha
After about a century, still same Sh!t but different A$$holes. But now a days not too many boy plungers, only winners on balance.
The Thief of Wall Street
  • #11
  • Jul 19, 2009 4:22pm Jul 19, 2009 4:22pm
Very nice thread Chicky,
As a newbie I can tell what my experience was with the "herd mentality".
In the beginning when I was hungry for information I started reading the EUR/USD thread and tried to understand the different systems and why this or that guy made this or that call, I played with indicators that I saw in other people´s charts, Changed TF`s tried to scalp and long term....in between I was reading the thread and anytime I red some post that predicted the opposite from waht I was doing I took my small profit and run or worse: I let some loosers run because I thought the other guy was right...

Well I lost a lot of money that way and my frustation got me to the point where I have to agree with Jay Walker: It´s much better to make own decisions, be the driver, the one in charge..I believe that´s the only way to know what YOU are doing wrong and having the chance to fix it. Otherwise you´ll be looking for the fails of another one´s system and be numbled creating just more frustation, anger and fear.

Systems are like A$$holes, everyone has his own and they look different even when their built to accomplish the same task.
  • #12
  • Jul 19, 2009 4:40pm Jul 19, 2009 4:40pm
“I prefer to be wrong on my own terms, than be right on yours"
Jay Walker
winningFX reply was "the above highlighted sentence does not apply 2 most people frequenting ff"

Have to agree, but thats probably why most people are not winning at FX game.
  • #13
  • Jul 19, 2009 5:55pm Jul 19, 2009 5:55pm
Hi Chicky and Jay
I often refer to a poem that I had read at school but was brought to me in the context of trading by John Bollingers' book.
The poem is by Robert Frost and is "The Road Not Taken".
For anyone not familiar it starts with a choice of roads in a wood.
I so often like others have taken the most used road and followed the herd. As time has gone by (3 years) I am now firmly in the "my way or no way camp". It's no good blindly following someone elses ideas.
The poem finishes with taking the path least traveled.

To quote Bollinger
"Your path , created , maintained and traveled by yourself,will be that path less traveled, for it will be yours and yours alone, no one else will be able to follow it and vice versa.

Simply just follow your own path.
Andy
  • #14
  • Jul 19, 2009 7:32pm Jul 19, 2009 7:32pm
Quoting gbppip
The Yin / Yang of trading is Profitable / Unprofitable. There is nothing else that matters.

Whether you blaze your own trail or take an existing trail, all that matters is your P/L at the end of your journey.

To focus on anything else is not trading.
I am not a Confucian, but I read somewhere that Yin and Yang represent two opposing forces or entities that sustain life or universe and not apparent outcomes of an action. And if you look at that way Yin and Yang could be fear and greed that keep financial markets afloat.
No Fear, No Regrets A sense of purpose makes life meaningful
  • #15
  • Edited Jul 20, 2009 2:45pm Jul 19, 2009 8:55pm | Edited Jul 20, 2009 2:45pm
Thanks everyone for participating in this dicussion.

Ok. Since discussion has started on this topic let’s consider the requirements of paving our own paths.

First – The basic principles. Both science and art have some basic principles.

Nature provides basic principles of science while man sets basic principles of arts. Nothing works if these principles are not followed.

Basic principles of science include Laws of Motion, Laws of Thermodynamics, etc. Basic principles of art include e.g. basic accounting principles like Matching Cost, Prudence, Unit Measurement, etc. These principles are basically undeniable facts forming base of any rules on which a system (or product) is developed.

The basic trading principles that maybe considered in order to develop a trading method (and its rules) may include the following. Any trading method that denies or violates these principles would be faulty.






Basic Trading Principles - Draft

  1. Market never remains stable. It always moves up or down. Whatever direction it moves, it never goes straight in that direction. [Doblece added] However, each different market has its own steady and recognizable stepping and pace.
  2. All market movements are based on collective demand and supply which keeps on changing.
  3. Market tend to respect psychological levels, fibs, waves, supports and resistances
  4. There are breaks and retraces
  5. It forms trends and consolidations
  6. It sometimes shows high volatility and forms spikes
  7. [Jay Walker added] Risk has, does, and always will exist. You can chose to either fear it or acknowledge it.

Would appreciate additions / refinement to these draft principles.

The Thief of Wall Street
  • #16
  • Jul 19, 2009 10:24pm Jul 19, 2009 10:24pm
Quoting Chicky
Market never remains stable. It always moves up or down. Whatever direction it moves, it never goes straight in that direction.
"However, each different market has its own steady and recognizable stepping and pace".
  • #17
  • Edited 10:47pm Jul 19, 2009 10:47pm | Edited 10:47pm
Quoting doblece
"However, each different market has its own steady and recognizable stepping and pace".
Thanks Doblece. You are one of the founder members of this thread. We expect more from you in the future.

Thanks again.
The Thief of Wall Street
  • #18
  • Jul 20, 2009 12:03am Jul 20, 2009 12:03am
Quoting Chicky
Basic Trading Principles - Draft
7. Risk has, does, and always will exist. You can chose to either fear it or acknowledge it.
Not all sins are created equal
  • #19
  • Jul 20, 2009 12:14am Jul 20, 2009 12:14am
Okay, this may be freaky and just downright nuts to some. If so then be it.

Locus (not to confuse with locust) of Control refers to an individual's perception about the underlying main causes of events in his/her life. Or, more simply:

Do you believe that your destiny is controlled by yourself or by external forces (such as fate, god, or powerful others)?

Quote

External Locus of Control

Individual believes that his/her behaviour is guided by fate, luck, or other external circumstances Internal Locus of Control

Individual believes that his/her behaviour is guided by his/her personal decisions and efforts.
More about Locus of Control

Consider this? Is your locus of control external? Then, does it mean God is responsible for your trades? Does it mean your lucky? Or does it just mean that it happened because of some other external force?

Or is your locus of control internal?

I've made my choice. What's yours?
Not all sins are created equal
  • #20
  • Jul 20, 2009 12:47am Jul 20, 2009 12:47am
Quoting Jay Walker
Okay, this may be freaky ... locus of control
Not at all freaky... though a bit tricky

The trader can't control the markets. But he/she can control him/herself and thus the trades made, by means of a series of rules, a strict discipline to follow those rules, money management, etc... as well as control the personal environment in which the actions will be performed (prevention, prevision, etc.)
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