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  • #4,041
  • Jul 6, 2009 5:27pm Jul 6, 2009 5:27pm
Cable, gbpyen

In the words of 'Red' in the 1980's 'Nam flick Platoon :

"I gotta bad feeling about this one Bob.,..."

It's MPC rate week - so I'd just sit on your hands - the MMs et al are more than likley sucking in the punters as the trends have gone (thanks Nic, great article btw). The boss points one way and the worker the other and the 20/50 trap is set too - patience is called for me thinks!

I like hammers/stars to be at the ends of really big moves up and down, not just poking out of consolidation areas. The rally from the lows could have been tied with the US Indicies rallying late on and recovering the losses after a 3day US break - but I bet the exuberance will soon peter out.....

I prefer to fade the cable pin, but that's just me..
Trade less and become more profitable!
  • #4,042
  • Jul 6, 2009 5:31pm Jul 6, 2009 5:31pm
Quoting AminAS
Both of these guys are sporting hammers as of 5 PM EST. I was wondering if either of those would make good longs?

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/2075/gbpjpy.gif

http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/6005/gbpusde.gif
Volume was very light today with little or no movement - the big boys aren't playing, so it is very difficult to know where the sentiment is.

When trading is paper thin like today, the market can be easily moved or not, as in many cases. As a result, any PASR is likely to be very unreliable.

Most pairs are stuck in consolidation as the big boys wait for direction from the Central Banks and their resulting orders.

When its like this, I find something else to do.
15 YEARS OF PASR ON FOREX FACTORY!
  • #4,043
  • Jul 6, 2009 5:58pm Jul 6, 2009 5:58pm
Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by foredog http://www.forexfactory.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif
BUT if your 25 from your target and 250 from your stop is it logical to let i run back? Think of zones not targets.

= greed.

Quite the contrary actually. Nothing to do with greed.
This was an exercise in discipline. I would always have taken profits if close to my target prior to reading this thread.
Strat hammered the point that we must have a plan and stick to it.

I was trying to apply his ideas as I understood them at the time.
My plan was to take profits at a price and I stuck to it.
Strat and others have said (and I totally agree) that if you get close take the money.
He also said to never move your stop.

In this trade my discipline was great but my plan was not.
Future plans will allow for taking profits when close to targets.

Years ago I remember loosening stops (hope) - never do that now.
Strat is a stong believer in not tightening them - except after taking profits (moving stop to BE for example).

Biggest lesson for me is to have a detailed plan that covers all contingencies.
  • #4,044
  • Jul 6, 2009 6:33pm Jul 6, 2009 6:33pm
I was thinking ATM on GBP/USD up to the top of the consolidation, but patience seems to be a better idea. Keep me posted if you guys see something good!
Bang.
  • #4,045
  • Jul 6, 2009 7:15pm Jul 6, 2009 7:15pm
Stops are quite personal so having a plan for them that is within your comfort level is what counts, because then you will stick to it.
I do mine differently to Strat and BabaG.

I almost never move my stop to BE and I don't like the expression "free trade" because any time my capital has been risked it is not free.
I prefer to wait until a trade has moved into profit (to a multiple of my risk) and then I bank half. This way I have "paid" for my stop, and the trade will not lose me money. I then leave the second half to run.
The reason I like this is my stop is in a logical place at the start, the other side of S&R and usually at the place where I know my trade is wrong.
I'm not suggesting you should all do this, just have a good reason for doing what you do, make sure you are comfortable with it, and stick to it.



Quoting Surfer
Quite the contrary actually. Nothing to do with greed.
This was an exercise in discipline. I would always have taken profits if close to my target prior to reading this thread.
Strat hammered the point that we must have a plan and stick to it.

I was trying to apply his ideas as I understood them at the time.
My plan was to take profits at a price and I stuck to it.
Strat and others have said (and I totally agree) that if you get close take the money.
He also said to never move your stop.

In this trade my discipline was great but my plan was...
  • #4,046
  • Jul 6, 2009 8:24pm Jul 6, 2009 8:24pm
[quote=AminAS;2853806]Both of these guys are sporting hammers as of 5 PM EST. I was wondering if either of those would make good longs?

AminAs! Have you checked lower time frames? They lead I guess, higher times frames fallowing them like a shadow. Dan
  • #4,047
  • Jul 6, 2009 8:43pm Jul 6, 2009 8:43pm
Quoting elitejets
Stops are quite personal...
Exactly. Trading is personal and all about developing your "style" and what you are most comfortable with. Whether you take profits on your first lot and move to BE or, not take profits and let the whole lot run with perhaps moving the SL to a better S&R or swing is all up to the individual.

I have no set way to take profits as I treat each trade on a case by case basis and try to go with "the flow". However, for new guys starting out and those who were not profitable, it is best for your "psyche" to take profits whenever you can and lock the balance in so that you are not in a losing position. Be careful however, as there is a risk to doing this too early which will result in your stop being taken out on a trade which may "run". Of course, this depends on whether you are in an ATM trade or a trend trade.

Which ever way you do it and whatever style you choose, the IMPORTANT thing to remember is that this MUST be included and be part of your PLAN. Remember, do as I say, not as I do.

Your PLAN must include FIRST, how much you will LOSE if it all goes pear shaped. You MUST accept this in your PLAN. This is governed by where you place your stop in accordance with your MM. If you can't accept this loss, reduce your $/pip value or do not take the trade. Never, ever make a trade where you can't afford to LOSE the $ amount governed by your SL. Believe in and TRUST your PLAN.

Your PLAN is basically your "WHAT IF" scenario. You must go through all the "WHAT IFs" in your PLAN so that when faced with it during the trade, it is not a surprise and you have allowed for it. If you don't BELIEVE and TRUST your PLAN, it isn't worth the paper it's written on. This brings up another point. Your PLAN should be WRITTEN down, preferably in your journal or log.

Your PLAN should be RIGID on your SL - set this in concrete and don't move it no matter what happens. Resist the temptation to anticipate that your SL will be hit and take it out manually to save a few pips. Let your PLAN do the work for you; after all, you have thought this exact situation through.

""The reason I like this is my stop is in a logical place at the start, the other side of S&R and usually at the place where I know my trade is wrong""

To me this goes without saying, BUT, make sure you have your SL positioned relative to the set up bar, S&R or swing and is such that if price goes there, your trade hasn't worked out like you thought (PLANNED).

While your SL should be rigid, your profit target should be FLEXIBLE. If you are nearing your target and price stalls, TAKE PROFIT! Don't worry that you can make a few more pips by holding on and "hoping" that your target will be reached because when you do that, chances are high that it will reverse on you. When this happens you will be as sick as a parrot and go into "revenge" mode. This is letting your EMOTIONS (Greed) control you.

Everything you do while in a trade MUST be according to your PLAN. Failure to do this and you hand control over to the little man inside your head who will chew you up and spit you out in little pieces. Having an accepted and trusted PLAN is all about YOU being in control.

The PLAN is to our emotions, what the CROSS is to Dracula!
15 YEARS OF PASR ON FOREX FACTORY!
  • #4,048
  • Jul 6, 2009 8:53pm Jul 6, 2009 8:53pm
[quote=todor113;2854177]
Quoting AminAS
Both of these guys are sporting hammers as of 5 PM EST. I was wondering if either of those would make good longs?

AminAs! Have you checked lower time frames? They lead I guess, higher times frames fallowing them like a shadow. Dan

........7, 8, 9, 10! Which Christmas Tree did you fall off? You jump in with your 4th post in a thread which has detailed the HIGHER ORDER of time frames and GUESS time frame inter-action!

How successful have you been trading the Worker using H4 or H1 as your guide?
15 YEARS OF PASR ON FOREX FACTORY!
  • #4,049
  • Jul 6, 2009 9:06pm Jul 6, 2009 9:06pm
[quote=strat;2854222][quote=todor113;2854177]


........7, 8, 9, 10! Which Christmas Tree did you fall off?
I'm a green , not a forex trader. Just recently bumped into this thread.I'm a technical guy, an electrical contractor . Logic tells me if something does not happen on a 1 hour chart it will not happen on a daily chart either. That's all.
I suscribed to this thread , eager to learn. Dan
  • #4,050
  • Jul 6, 2009 9:10pm Jul 6, 2009 9:10pm
Quoting strat
Volume was very light today with little or no movement - the big boys aren't playing, so it is very difficult to know where the sentiment is.

When trading is paper thin like today, the market can be easily moved or not, as in many cases. As a result, any PASR is likely to be very unreliable.

Most pairs are stuck in consolidation as the big boys wait for direction from the Central Banks and their resulting orders.

When its like this, I find something else to do.
Strat...where do you get your volume data from?
  • #4,051
  • Jul 6, 2009 9:15pm Jul 6, 2009 9:15pm
Quoting One14
Strat...where do you get your volume data from?
Futures contracts, Corbett.
15 YEARS OF PASR ON FOREX FACTORY!
  • #4,052
  • Jul 6, 2009 10:00pm Jul 6, 2009 10:00pm
[quote=todor113;2854250][quote=strat;2854222]
Quoting todor113


........7, 8, 9, 10! Which Christmas Tree did you fall off?
I'm a green , not a forex trader. Just recently bumped into this thread.I'm a technical guy, an electrical contractor . Logic tells me if something does not happen on a 1 hour chart it will not happen on a daily chart either. That's all.
I suscribed to this thread , eager to learn. Dan
Dan, read and understand the thread from the beginning. Ask any questions on here. Study the posts on time frames so you will understand why you had it upside down. If trading was based on logic, I would be a $gazillionaire - I'm not. Common sense is a better attribute than logic.
15 YEARS OF PASR ON FOREX FACTORY!
  • #4,053
  • Jul 7, 2009 12:51am Jul 7, 2009 12:51am
Why are we back here......WATEVA!!!!
  • #4,054
  • Jul 7, 2009 9:42am Jul 7, 2009 9:42am
Quoting Baba G
Why are we back here......WATEVA!!!!
Welcome back ... get stuck in
  • #4,055
  • Jul 7, 2009 11:15am Jul 7, 2009 11:15am
Hi friends,
I wanted to take a few minutes and touch base with everyone. It’s been over a month since I posted here, but I’ve been following Strat’s advice to go back to the beginning of the Path of Learning and READ and UNDERSTAND the knowledge everyone has shared. That’s what I have been doing. Not lurking. It’s taking a lot of time to really study and think about everything, but it is well worth it. I'm only up to page 190 so far but I'll be caught up soon.

I want to give you an idea of where I’m at so far -- and I hope you could let me know if I’m on the right track here or I'm overlooking something very important.

In order to keep things simple and organized in my mind when trading I’ve decided to create what I call (for lack of a better name) my “Profit Action Plan”. It's developed from what I have learned here so far.


Profit Action Plan:
1. Evaluate PASR
2. Determine risk
3. Set profit targets
4. Follow trade plan
5. Preserve capital


I want to take the following actions to identify and profit from the opportunities the market offers:

A) Look for real, obvious shooting star and hammer candles that form at the end of an uptrend or downtrend, which will likely form a swing high/low. Watch out for “Bond” candles that look like the real thing but fail to stop a strong trend.

B) Don’t go looking for trades. Instead, wait and have the discipline to only take the trades that you clearly see that show genuine Price Action.

C) Consider where the stop should be placed and whether it is acceptable to risk that percentage of the account on the trade. If not, have the discipline to pass on the trade and wait for a better opportunity.

D) Always consider the profit targets and any major “psycho” level, or S/R zone is blocking price from reaching the target. Try to determine if there is any reason why these areas would likely stall the trade and what action should be taken if the price reverses at these important areas.

E) Once the setup is identified, risk is accepted, and a trade plan is clearly defined, then place the trade and follow the plan without having doubts and second thoughts. Because once you have determined that you can comfortably take the loss you should have no worry or stress that would allow “Stinkin Thinkin” (fear and greed) to come into play and make you change your plan in mid-stream.

F) Always keep in mind that the market can do anything and the most important factor is to limit loss. See the price action objectively as the trade progresses, and don’t “wish and hope” the market will do what you want it to. Respond to what is really happening, not what you think might happen.



I’m also still unsure about determining my S/R levels, but with more study from James16 plus looking at more charts I’m sure that will become clearer to me.

I’m also working on a format for making a trade journal where I can keep an organized record of the trades I placed, how they concluded, how I felt about them, etc.

A major psychological problem I am struggling with, since a lot of my past experience has been involved with scalping, seems to be the desire to always be in a trade. For example, if I have recently closed a trade, successfully or not, I have this desire to start “looking” for another trade to get into as soon as possible. And I don’t mean waiting for a good one, I mean anything that looks hopeful. Anything I can make myself believe has potential. I think some of this comes from feeling like I need to always have something going to make money constantly. Like I am losing time and money if I don’t have something going. I’m sure you know what I mean. I’m working on that.

I hope I can begin posting some charts and start offering some useful ideas and questions soon. In the meantime I will go back to studying the charts and analysis everyone has already posted until now.

Thanks for taking the time to read all this and offer any thoughts you may have.

David
  • #4,056
  • Edited 12:50pm Jul 7, 2009 12:43pm | Edited 12:50pm
It seems like these ranging, consolidating, trendless times are going on for ever but, that’s part of trading. Depending what, where and who you read, it is said that markets only trend for 30% of the time.

When we are in these times, make the most of it by practicing your patience and discipline. The easiest way out if you have NO patience and discipline is to drop down to lower time frames so that you can play the GAME. These guys think they are being smart and clever only to find out they become broke. I have read so many reports of traders, brokers, professionals losing some or all of their accounts in the first half of this year that I have become blasé about it.

If, at the end of June, your trading account is still intact, or better still, showing a profit, give yourselves a big pat on the back and tell yourself, “Well done!”. You are well on The Path to becoming a successful trader.

Remember the higher order of time frames – whatever happens on the BOSS is passed down to the Worker is passed down to H4 is passed down to H1 etc EXCEPT with vengeance by a factor of the time frame.

Unless you are a scalper and are proficient at staring at the one eyed monster for 12 to 14 hours a day for a measly 20 pips or so, the shorter the time frame the MORE you want and need trends.

Again, when we are trading to live, we look at the charts for opportunities. We do NOT go looking for trades. As I have said many times, the good opportunities will stand out like a sore thumb (providing you know what you are looking for). When you find yourself “hunting”through each chart trying to find a trade, you know you have over stepped the mark and you need to back off and be patient.

“But I need to make $X,000 this month to pay the bills”, you say. Well, if this is the case, you are doomed to FAIL. Before starting out to trade to live, you MUST have a back up account of at LEAST, 6 months living expenses and preferably, one year. This is in addition to your trading account. When you don’t have this “slush” account to live off in the times we are in now, you put yourself under greater pressure to perform. The more pressure you are under, the more mistakes you will make. The more mistakes you make will put you under more pressure and so on in a vicious spiral that will ruin you both financially and mentally.

The sooner you realise you can ONLY trade what the market gives you and NOTHING more, the better trader you will become.

Use these times to exercise your PATIENCE and DISCIPLINE. These are the times that sort the REAL traders from the wannabe traders. Wait for the market to show her face, then smile at her. The 4 figure pip trades are still there, in fact they are being built for us right now, providing we can wait. Remember, after every period of consolidation is a break out and the longer the consolidation, the bigger the break out.

Remember why you are trading. Do you know why you are trading? If you don’t, ask yourself right now and make sure you come up with the right answer for there is ONLY one right answer. Trading is a business, treat it like a business. Treat it with respect, patience and discipline and it will look after you for as long as you want. Abuse it and take advantage of it and you will blow it – big time!

Hopefully if you are still on The Path you will have learned and KNOW that trading is NOT a game – far from it. Neither is it a “Get Rich Quick” scheme as the scammers want us to believe. In fact, it is more like an investment growing slowly but surely. How can it do otherwise when we are only risking 2% of our account?

For those on The Path who have joined from trading shorter time frames, your test of will power, patience and discipline will be the hardest. Persevere, stick with it and stay on The Path and resist the need to go “thrill seeking” again. After the buzz of the adrenalin rush comes - - - - - - - - - STRESS. If you are still struggling with resisting the urge to trade the shorter time frames then, as soon as you feel that need, POST here on the thread your feelings, why you want to do it etc. Get it out of your system. Help others understand what you are going through.

How do we know the markets are in a mess?

What works for me is a quick glance at the BOSS. If her latest bars are all side by side with long wicks and tails, I don’t give her a second glance – NEXT CHART!

For those of you who say, “Wait a minute, that BOSS range is hundreds of pips”, my answer is, “if you have the style, personality, temperament and SKILL, go trade it”. For me, I would rather sit back and post on here because if I don’t look like I’m busy, MY BIG BOSS will give me jobs to do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you think you can handle trading the range, think about it. Then think about it some more. Let’s look at GBPUSD BOSS for example. She is in a 969 pip range.
“Bloody hell, Strat, that’s a lot of pips to miss out on”, you mumble. But is it?

Let’s look at it in more detail. She is now in her 7th week of going nowhere (Nowhere Man – Beatles 1965). “How would you trade this, Holmes old chap?” “With difficulty I suggest, Watson, with difficulty”.

“Ah but on week ending June 12th there was a BEEB to trigger our longs”. “Right let’s do it! “ At this point we are in the 3rd week of consolidation. “So what’s your target, Watson?”. “Er, good point, Holmes, let’s shoot for 100 pips”. “ But resistance is only 83 pips above!” “Well maybe we’ll break out and go higher, Holmes, don’t be so pessimistic”. I’d rather still have ALL my account left than be optimistic like you, Watson”, where will you place your stop?”. “Below the BEEB, of course”. “Right, so a 910 pip SL for an 83 pip reward or a “live in hope”, 100 pips, I don’t think so my four eyed friend!”.

Watson took it and lived in hope and more so when he saw the proceeding dojis. In fact he kept his order open waiting for the breakout. “How’s the trade, Watson?” “Rather not talk about it, old chap, I’m in the red for about 473 pips but I’m holding on because when it hits the bottom it will rebound, shoot up back to the top and that’s where I’ll get out”. “Why didn’t you trade last week’s shooting star, that would have been a safer gamble, eh what?”

So Watson is left with a long position fast going against him by the minute. “Why don’t you cut your losses and get out, Watson?” Holmes advised. “Because I don’t like taking losses and anyway it will come back for me”. “How do you know that, Watson, is it in your plan?” “What plan?”, grumbled Watson, “I just saw the trade and went for it!”. “Get out RIGHT NOW”, ordered Holmes, “before you lose any more of your hard earned money, and in future, NEVER trade without a PLAN and NEVER trade on a whim and NEVER, EVER hope that a trade will turn around for you!’
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: gbpusd weekly.gif Size: 16 KB
15 YEARS OF PASR ON FOREX FACTORY!
  • #4,057
  • Jul 7, 2009 1:46pm Jul 7, 2009 1:46pm
Quoting PistolDave
Hi friends,
I wanted to take a few minutes and touch base with everyone. It’s been over a month since I posted here, but I’ve been following Strat’s advice to go back to the beginning of the Path of Learning and READ and UNDERSTAND the knowledge everyone has shared. That’s what I have been doing. Not lurking. It’s taking a lot of time to really study and think about everything, but it is well worth it. I'm only up to page 190 so far but I'll be caught up soon.

[font=Calibri][size=3]I...
PistolDave, thank you. It’s posts like this that give me more satisfaction and reward than any 4 figure pip haul can do.

For new readers and wannabe traders reading this, please take note. This is EXACTLY how you should apply yourself. Take your time. Only move on to the next post/topic when you are 100% sure you understand everything you have read so far. Remember the tortoise and the hare? You want to be the tortoise. Slowly but surely does it in this business.

Dave, with regard to S&R, take special note of Blackeagle’s posts in addition to mine. There are enough posts on here now (maybe later than page 190) for you to be able to understand their placement. Study those and if you still don’t understand, post your questions on here.

With regard to the Trade Journal, AstonDan posted his but again maybe in pages later than 190.

“”A major psychological problem I am struggling with, since a lot of my past experience has been involved with scalping, seems to be the desire to always be in a trade. For example, if I have recently closed a trade, successfully or not, I have this desire to start “looking” for another trade to get into as soon as possible. And I don’t mean waiting for a good one, I mean anything that looks hopeful. Anything I can make myself believe has potential. I think some of this comes from feeling like I need to always have something going to make money constantly. Like I am losing time and money if I don’t have something going. I’m sure you know what I mean. I’m working on that.””

Dave, you posted this while I was writing my “Killing time” next post and I touched on it briefly. You are very wise to recognize this as your “Achilles Heel”.

The fact that you recognize it and are aware of it is worth many steps on The Path. You are struggling with a combination of the “Get Rich Quick/Game” mentality. Recognise this is NOT a “Get Rich Quick” scheme, nor is it a “Game”.

This is a deadly serious business. Treat it like YOUR business. Your trading account is YOUR business start up capital. Your start up capital is what keeps YOUR business IN business. Preserve it at all costs. Resist the urge to take risks or make risky decisions. Look after your capital and INVEST it wisely. INVEST in safe, low risk opportunities. Forget trading. YOU are INVESTING. YOU are INVESTING in the rest of your life. You have many years to INVEST, there is no need to RUSH and try and do it all in one day.

Somewhere in the thread is a post by Paul King who explains a similar situation to yours. Find it and study it carefully; it will help you. Maybe PM Paul and share experiences or better still, post on here like you have.

If you get the urge/adrenalin rush to “be in a trade”, then post on here instead. Get it out of your system, but DO NOT trade.

Instead of thinking “”like I need to always have something going to make money constantly. Like I am losing time and money if I don’t have something going””, turn it upside down, think “ I am glad I am not in a trade right now because it could be a LOSING trade”. Not being in a trade IS a position. It is harder to NOT be in a trade than be in a trade (a profitable trade that is).

More than anything, Dave, you have to get it out of your system that this is some sort of money making scheme. I had the same vision and dreams BUT the more I worked on them, the further away they became. RELAX, slow down, let the stress and pressure of wanting to make money float away. Instead, perfect your skills in PASR, money management and trading psychology. Take the stress and pressure off yourself and you will be surprised at how much easier trading becomes. Again, forget trading. YOU are INVESTING in the rest of YOUR life. Take one step at a time. Rome wasn’t built in a day and you eat an elephant spoon by spoon and all that good stuff.

Thanks again for your post.

Now, what’s with the “pistoldave” handle?
15 YEARS OF PASR ON FOREX FACTORY!
  • #4,058
  • Jul 7, 2009 2:59pm Jul 7, 2009 2:59pm
From Bloomberg:

Yen Beats Dollar, Franc as Haven of Choice, Bank of Tokyo-Mitsubishi Says The yen has become the favored safe haven currency on speculation reserve diversification and central bank selling may weaken the dollar and the Swiss franc, Bank of Tokyo-Mitsubishi UFJ Ltd. said.

British Pound Declines as Lobby Group Urges BOE to Extend Asset Purchases The pound fell against the dollar for a fourth day, its longest run of declines since April, after the British Chambers of Commerce recommended that the Bank of England expand its asset-purchase program to revive the economy.

Swiss Franc Declines Against U.S. Dollar, Little Changed Versus the Euro The Swiss franc slid 0.1 percent to 1.0856 per dollar as of 6:38 a.m. in London.
15 YEARS OF PASR ON FOREX FACTORY!
  • #4,059
  • Jul 7, 2009 7:54pm Jul 7, 2009 7:54pm
Hi, strat

Do you mind tell how long you need to double your account with this method?

Thanks
  • #4,060
  • Jul 7, 2009 10:13pm Jul 7, 2009 10:13pm
Quoting strat
PistolDave, thank you. It’s posts like this that give me more satisfaction and reward than any 4 figure pip haul can do.

For new readers and wannabe traders reading this, please take note. This is EXACTLY how you should apply yourself. Take your time. Only move on to the next post/topic when you are 100% sure you understand everything you have read so far. Remember the tortoise and the hare? You want to be the tortoise. Slowly but surely does it in this business.

[font=Arial]Dave, with regard to S&R, take...
Thanks for the excellent advice, Strat. I'm feeling more confident now that I'm making progress on the Path of Learning. The people who truly want to learn the way to trading success are finding great wisdom in your posts, you can be sure.

The handle was something that I was using when I was on a forum about pistol shooting and skeet shooting. Some of the things I had the time to do before the "one-eyed monster" started eating up all my free time.

It's more likely related to the subconscious thing about scalping, daytrading, get in there and don't be afraid to "pull the trigger" on the next trade, make money fast in this wild whirlwind playing field called the forex market. I'm seeing how foolish that is now, but at the time it was all I knew. The grand illusion.

That reminds me of a quote I recently read from Victor Niederhoffer's The Education of a Speculator where he is comparing biological patterns of life to speculative patterns and says life maintains itself by turnover, and in speculation "The public must have hope, so they return and tell their friends to join." That is the game that the bucket shops are playing to keep the noobs coming back just long enough to bring fresh meat for the grinder.

That used to be me. John Q Public. Now I am moving past that level. Thank you for your help.

I'm going back to page 190 now and I'll be back in touch soon.

Dave
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