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Where can I learn more about Price Action like those in James16 charts? 9 replies

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james16 Chart Thread

  • #36,081
  • Jul 3, 2009 12:20pm Jul 3, 2009 12:20pm
Quoting jplo
I wanna make clear, that this is not my real case....
It was only an example of what I've read many times.....
People who assure they make a life from a 3K, 5K or 10K accounts.....
For me, this looks like impossible, even asking for earning 2K, 3K a month....
No chance. No one is going to earn a living on a tiny account. Think about this - what kind of trader possesses a small account? That is right, a new one. My personal account is much larger, but I still cannot rely on it. When it triples, I will not rely on it.

Here is the truth I've learned about money.

There was a time I thought "Gee, 50K a year. If I could get THAT, I'd be set." I got it fairly soon, and thought "Well, that allowed me to get a nicer car and few things. 100K - that is the real deal". Well, again, 100K came and went. Vacations got better. Better suits and furniture. More dinners out. 200K. Now that would be the bomb - right? Not so fast. Now you stay at the Ritz Carlton, The Four Seasons and the Amangani in Jackson Hole. Your suits are Hickey Freeman. You think in terms of "The Best". You discover a highly secluded spot on the Ocean in Kauai - and book it 10 days at a time. Then there is that expensive wife. She discovers "Chocolate Pearls" while on a South Pacific vacation. They are beautiful - and expensive. And of course your own toys ....

200K is not that much money. Neither is 500K. Or a million a year. Those numbers seem big, until you hit one of them.

The plain truth is this: you will live at the level your income allows. Period. (Are there any ascetics here?)

As for me - I am not going to take a pay cut to go full time into Forex. And I must grow my account as I go along. That expensive wife just developed a taste for Bergdorf Goodman...

But hey - that is the observation I have made in myself and everyone else I know. My advice - forget dreaming about income. Start over by obsessing 1000% on getting great at trading. The money will follow. It always does. It has worked for me to focus on being very good at what I do. The best, IMHO. Money came, and came fast.
I'm pretty much done with all this ...
  • #36,082
  • Jul 3, 2009 12:24pm Jul 3, 2009 12:24pm
Quoting verno
Ghous, do you use the re-test as confirmation for your trend as I assume from you subsequent response about blind entries that you enter on break of the pin rather the re-test?

Just trying to understand what you get from the re-test.

Thanks
Verno
yeah they can be good momentum indicators. When price busts through a ppz, comes back and is immediately rejected...more than anything else this tells you abt the momentum of the move,

Regards,
Ghous.
I believe . . .
  • #36,083
  • Jul 3, 2009 12:28pm Jul 3, 2009 12:28pm
Quoting verno
Another question, is this PB still valid? The high was never broken until now. The low was but not significantly?

I appreciate the location may not be fantastic and its a friday on a US holiday so I am not about to trade it, I just wanted to check if the break of the low invalidated it?
chart.
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I believe . . .
  • #36,084
  • Jul 3, 2009 12:31pm Jul 3, 2009 12:31pm
Quoting billye
hi guys.
see if someone could give me some assurance coz I'm not so sure if doing like this (below) is a proven way at least for most people to succeed.
I'll try to help a little.

Quote
1. trade with a leverage or without?
seems w/o leverage is safest... but how to combat the greedies?

Focus on becoming a great trader. Learn those mechanics and the thinking. Leverage is a good thing. Money Management is paramount. Risk .5% to 1% on each trade to start with. Lower risk helps keep greed at bay - and fear. Get great at this in a safe manner.

Quote
2. trade on daily or H4?
seems daily S/R is more reliable, but seems trading daily could no move for many hours... except for volatile market.... so when I have time to watch charts, I zoom in to H4, is this over trading?

S/R is exactly the same. As far as which TF for you - PLEASE read the first post on this thread. If you follow it, you will be successful.

Quote
3. trade with a stop/loss or not?
because we're working on uncertainty, trade w/o a stop/loss could mean an unlimited loss to capital or time...

ALWAYS with a Stop Loss. Always. IF you don't know where to put them, start again at the beginning of the thread...

Quote
and if we're in loss with position=acc and don't want to s/l, if in loss then could lock our trading for a long time coz leverage >1 is not recommended.

Not sure what you are saying.

Quote
so sounds like a s/l is still needed?
but on lower T/F we always have s/l hit when ranging which feels bad.
can we trade on high T/F w/o a stop/loss assuming that we have a bias to the pair like how we view stocks?

See the first post. See the first post. See the first post. And then read the next 50 pages.

Quote
4. a following up question of 1/2/3 is
shall we trade multiple pair or markets using 1/10 acc size as position?

No. 1% MAX. When you get good, then you can grow the risk.

Quote
that will further decrease leverage and lower risk,
even it's possible to trade w/o a stop/loss and enter base on our bias on the pair plus some techA.
if we do not trade multiple pair, do we open a position=acc size? that seems big

Goodness. Please do not trade real money.

Quote
5. how to set profit goal
if I'm working 4hr on trading...what shall I expect % return in a year? is 2%/month reasonable? is 5%/month unreasonable
if I'm trading 1h a week, 4h a month on it, what shall I expect? is 4%/year reasonable? if 12%/year reasonable?

None of that is reasonable. Not one shred of it. You take what the market gives. Sometimes it is nothing. Sometimes it is more. Your focus is on the wrong place. Learn to trade very, very well. That is the line of thinking you need.

Quote
because I am lacking data support above decisions, so it seems uncertain for me and sometimes fearful in trades hesitating what strategy to use.

sorry of this list is too long. thanks if you could share what you have experinced on above topics.

No problem. This thread and the people in it are here to help.

Start with first post, and then read and study the next 50 pages. Then come back, posting your charts with entry and exits. Then you will begin to learn a lot more.

Good Luck!
I'm pretty much done with all this ...
  • #36,085
  • Jul 3, 2009 12:33pm Jul 3, 2009 12:33pm
Quoting StoragePro
No chance....
great post Sto.
I believe . . .
  • #36,086
  • Jul 3, 2009 12:36pm Jul 3, 2009 12:36pm
Quoting jplo
I wanna make clear, that this is not my real case....
It was only an example of what I've read many times.....
People who assure they make a life from a 3K, 5K or 10K accounts.....
For me, this looks like impossible, even asking for earning 2K, 3K a month....
Well obviosuly you're in for a rude awakening if you're dreaming of making 2k a month with a 5k account.

But when it comes to building the account, with no pressure on it from the monthly bills the account can and will grow.

The point I and all the others are trying to make is that making a living of a 10k account is ludicrous.
I believe . . .
  • #36,087
  • Jul 3, 2009 12:37pm Jul 3, 2009 12:37pm
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...95#post2848595


hmm.... a CT trade following the retracement with PA...there is a risk of losing it but with a small loss but reword is not great either as retracement is not that powerful but has a potential to go to nearest hourly ppz between 96.25 to 96.45...

anyway i would take this 1...if i c the sign of retracement...on next bar opening with a 10 pips sl at 95.66..1st target 23 fib around 95.96.. hard to figure out a target in such a traffic thus choosing 23 fib...2nd just off the 38 fib (since it is a very lazy friday as US is in holyday mood)...if there is no influential news then price tends to hover between xx.80 to xx.20 if it is close to a xx.00 level before make a big move to next level...20pips on 1st n 30pips on 2nd n rest on BE wouldn’t be a bad trade mate....

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Anatomy of my trade of the week…
I took a blind short trade on EU like rac at 1.4185 using sell limit with sl of 45 pips in my mind… it was a ppz on daily, current daily uptrend channel’s upper trend line resistance level and high of EU’s 20 days average pips movement(which was 196…n day low was 1.40 high 1.42… took it at 1.4185 just off the high of the daily average hi-lo) hopping to exit on 38 fib n minor ppz at 1.4125….but noticed that it was slowly drifting lower…on top of that dow hit a resistance at 8500 n was due for a retracement plus my expectation of negative NFP let me keep TP open with stop on BE…it did paid off…EU ended reaching 1.40…yesterday on ur chart where u recommend exit…I was thinking of exiting…but then it occur to me that Japan, Hong Kong n Australia didn’t price in the big dow sell off on EU yet….thus I kept my trade open but was trying to figure out where should I put TP…coz if EU go lower then 1.40…it is a break of 1.40 ppz ….should be extream…thus start looking for lower level trend-line n ppz…n on daily it was sitting on 1.3930-1.3940…60/70 pips away from 1.40 ppz n extreme enough for slow Asian session… if it didn’t reach their I would settle for 1.40 as EU wasn’t showing any promising sign of retracement….check the candle on 11:15-11:30…baged 250 pips …done for the week…

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I think 1 or 2 trade like this in a week is better then scalping 1 hr tf…at least less stress…that’s my opinion others may not agree…

If u trade 1:1 leverage on a 100000 ac it is a 2.5% return…
On 1:100 leverage on a 10000 ac with a 1std lot it is 25% return…

My draw down was 15pips…I risked 45 pips…bagged 250 pips…almost 1:5.55 RR

That works for me…

Anyway if I m bored n the trade I m planning to take is not forming on chart I wouldn’t mind to scalp the way u do…just need to make it less stressful meaning more comfortable…n the easy way to do that by studying the loss trades…thus I know what I m getting into…

It would b great if u post ur loss trades n explain why did u take it n why did u lose it…

don forget the profit trades as well....

cheers..
  • #36,088
  • Jul 3, 2009 12:41pm Jul 3, 2009 12:41pm
Quoting StoragePro
No chance. No one is going to earn a living on a tiny account. Think about this - what kind of trader possesses a small account? That is right, a new one. My personal account is much larger, but I still cannot rely on it. When it triples, I will not rely on it.

Here is the truth I've learned about money.

There was a time I thought "Gee, 50K a year. If I could get THAT, I'd be set." I got it fairly soon, and thought "Well, that allowed me to get a nicer car and few things. 100K - that is the real deal". Well, again, 100K came and went. Vacations...

Amazing post....
I agree 100 %...
  • #36,089
  • Jul 3, 2009 12:44pm Jul 3, 2009 12:44pm
come into my thread and help others to learn in a decent and kind manner and your welcome here.

come into my thread with low time frames teachings and your still welcome here.

come into my thread and question my approach in a decent and kind manner and your still welcome here.

come into my thread and be a prick and i will kick your ass.

btw for anyone thats wondering it wasnt me that suspended him.

he might be back.

if he does come back he will get a second chance to do things right.

thats how we roll here.

jim

Quoting bobability
Mike

Last word.

Why the main man with 3 decades of experience isn't teaching it though?
There's maybe one chart or two on this whole thread, no teachings. I know what's going on here and the stink is bad. I take it you are in with the subs private forum? For those who want to learn for free, contact me.

Boot me all you want, this site is controlled by James and Mike, you are being ripped off. Shame, it could've been fun.
  • #36,090
  • Jul 3, 2009 12:49pm Jul 3, 2009 12:49pm
Quoting ghous
Well obviosuly you're in for a rude awakening if you're dreaming of making 2k a month with a 5k account.

But when it comes to building the account, with no pressure on it from the monthly bills the account can and will grow.

The point I and all the others are trying to make is that making a living of a 10k account is ludicrous.
Saying again, Ghous, these are not my thoughts, in fact, I always think, at least for me, and at least right now, it would be impossible getting these 2k or even 1K with a 3, or 5K account...

But when you are just beginning, and you see so many people telling they can do it... Sometimes, you doubt about if it will be really true....
Because of that, my question....
  • #36,091
  • Jul 3, 2009 12:50pm Jul 3, 2009 12:50pm
Quoting jplo
Saying again ghous, these are not my real thoughts, in fact, I always think, at least for me, and at least right now, it would be impossible getting these 2k or even 1K with a 3, or 5K account...

But when you are just beginning, and you see so many people telling they can do it... Sometimes, you doubt about if it will be really true....
Because of that, my question....
lol,

I was saying it in general too. Wasn't pointing at you Bro.
I believe . . .
  • #36,092
  • Edited 1:22pm Jul 3, 2009 12:53pm | Edited 1:22pm
I think the longer time frames make the best environment to learn how to keep the funds we have. Until we master this crucial skill there is no point to win at all.

I found more then enough info on this thread priceless even for lower time frames.

Its impossible to learn every little thing from someone else I believe and what our new friend is telling us we all have already learned here if anybody is lazy enough to research on lower time frames its his problem and to blame James in such an approach is just funny. lol
  • #36,093
  • Jul 3, 2009 12:55pm Jul 3, 2009 12:55pm
Quoting StoragePro
No chance....
damn dude AMEN.,

This thread is about shattering forex BS. It is a challenge to get good at forex. Not everyone who tries even their hardest for years is guaranteed ANYTHING. Period. Can someone balloon a small trading account into riches. Of course anything can happen. Is this likely for the person risking 20% per trade even on a high probability setup NO. What we try to teach here is how to develop the skill to build your own system/method. These are tools, there is no step 1 step 2. This is why you see all sorts of traders that take what they learn here and develop there own methods. James said this all in a video yesterday that had me shaking my head yes for 20 mins. Do I trade the 4hr/1hr YES. Do I trade the daily/weekly YES. Do I advise others to start on the lower timeframes NO. The process is to get you to a point where you can DO whatever you want. You can trade the 5min, the 1min, the 38min chart. Whatever feels comfortable. Some people never move off the longer timeframes. I know of many. Some end up trading the 4hr only, or the 1hr, or both, or everything. No one is telling you otherwise. This thread has gotten so large, I can only imagine someone peeking in and picking up a post here and there and then taking an overview of what is the main goal(s). It is natural for a thread this large.

Where do most traders start? Where did you start? I start. Oh you know the hour, 5min, tick chart. Been there done that. How many actually pull themselves out of that mess without the tools. Well you know the statistics(95%? I would say 98% don't make it). They blow account after account, scratching their head. So instead why not take the time to treat this as a business, put this through the testing of the dailies weeklies. Train yourself to get the discipline and skills and then do the same for the lower charts. Yes I do trade the lower timeframes for more opportunities. I avg 10-15 4hr/1hr trades a months, and only 3-5 daily/weekly a month. Why do I do this? Because I know I can, and b/c I want to build my account faster. No argument there! But what is my goal? To have a large enough account to take only those 3-5 a month and be done with it. The goal is not to TRADE. This is a myth. James said it "I am here to make money". So if you don't want to start on the daily and weekly. No one can stop you. It is your life to lead. But still put it through the proper testing, you don't have to burn a hole in your pocket anymore to learn this business.

Everyone thinks oh if I trade more I will get more experience. Unfortunatley this is really not the case believe it or not. Yeah sure do it for 3 years of blood, sweat, and tears(yes tears). Again like SP said above, it is really hard to teach. Because so much of it just comes from how things are in your head and the way you develop it. But all of us who have been on this thread for awhile can agree on a lot(not all of course) steps James lays out. I know it hurts to hear you can't live off your 10k account. We all came into it thinking boy this is gonna be easy. There are all kinds of variations of risk and return. Just because I risk 1% a trade and make X amount a month/a year doesn't mean the next will. This comes with it. But certain things are ridiculous and don't happen. Anyone telling you they are making things that seem too good to be true. THEY ARE(well 99.999999%). Gives me a little room there.

I know you hate to hear, stop trading the 1hr and start and work your way down. I know. What we share is advice. To be taken or left at the door. That is up to you. But there is a reason why so many people follow this thread. THere is a reason so many people give back to this thread. Don't go through the heartache some of us did. Read that first post 100 times. So decide what you want from this business. I see some people on this forum still doing the same things for years and years now. They are so englufed in this that they have blinded themselves from the reason to actually be doing this. Everything thinks I am different. I can do this, etc. Maybe you can. But for most of us, its just about being smart and taking the right approach. I don't argue there aren't many ways to skin a cat. I am talking about those that follow this thread.

At the end of the day, SP is right. You control your own coin. I wish everyone to reach their goals whatever they are. Just be logical about it.

Happy 4th everyone, will check in on my phone see what I miss. I am not even going to re-read this b/c I am officially in weekend mode.

Mike
  • #36,094
  • Jul 3, 2009 12:55pm Jul 3, 2009 12:55pm
Quoting billye
hi guys.
see if someone could give me some assurance coz I'm not so sure if doing like this (below) is a proven way at least for most people to succeed.

1. trade with a leverage or without?
seems w/o leverage is safest... but how to combat the greedies?

2. trade on daily or H4?
seems daily S/R is more reliable, but seems trading daily could no move for many hours... except for volatile market.... so when I have time to watch charts, I zoom in to H4, is this over trading?

3. trade with a stop/loss or not?
because we're working on uncertainty,...
1 - It doesn't matter... When I put a trade I have no idea of the leverage I am using... You must learn about %R, position sizing, true leverage, asymetrical leverage, etc... I recommend you study Diallist and Fijitrader on the guess area of the PF

2 - I personally don't see much difference between daily and 4h... I think it is more a "learn how to be patient lesson"... I didn't pass on this one.

3 - Always with a stop loss and without moving it in the middle of the trade. This means you assume total reponsability for the bad trade you may have done

4 - I trade about a dozen pairs. I think it is ok.

5 - For the first 3 months, dont think in % profit, just think on being at least at BE.. Anything above that is a victory. Then, after getting familiar with this method and basic MM concepts, you may set a profit goal...

I blew my first account because I had no idea of this game, specially MM. I started trading with indicators in the smaller tf (5m and 15m) risking sometimes more than 5% per trade...

The secret of this business is capital preservation and compounding.

James16 and his crew, when I was about to give up, changed my perception of this business.

I really think this is THE PLACE to learn the basics and more and it gives the trader the opportunity to develop this/her own style.

Regards,
Luso
  • #36,095
  • Jul 3, 2009 12:59pm Jul 3, 2009 12:59pm
Quoting raczekfx
members need to have at least 50 posts in order for PM to work.
New members need to go to profile and enable PM regardless of amount of posts
  • #36,096
  • Jul 3, 2009 1:06pm Jul 3, 2009 1:06pm
Quoting mbqb11
damn dude AMEN.,

This thread is about shattering forex BS. It is a challenge to get good at forex. Not everyone who tries even their hardest for years is guaranteed ANYTHING. Period. Can someone balloon a small trading account into riches. ...............

Mike
Fantastic Post Mike

I agree 110% with everything u said, smaller tf's are great and they can be traded for sure.
But if u can't handle driving a regular car, what makes you think u can drive a Formula 1.

So Bob, keep posting and better open an own thread, i will read it for sure since i enjoyed your posts and i appreacite them. (And in here you dont need to be so defensive and distrustful, this place is different than most forums).

Nice weekend ppl

Cheers

Mat
  • #36,097
  • Jul 3, 2009 1:10pm Jul 3, 2009 1:10pm
Talking about trading..
The next week i'll watch very closely to this pair, because it is in a crucial point i think. The chart talks itself: 0.80 zone acted as resistance as expected, 50% fib ret and so on..
I'd like to see a break of the lower trendline, pullback and PA to go short (also in lower TF - 4h).
Do you agree with me?
For the next week i expect a quite strong US$..
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  • #36,098
  • Jul 3, 2009 1:12pm Jul 3, 2009 1:12pm
I second that...

Remember guys this a method, not a System. Develop your own system depending of your style and personality. That's why this thread it's fantastic.
What does not kill me makes me stronger. Friedrich Nietzsche,
  • #36,099
  • Jul 3, 2009 1:14pm Jul 3, 2009 1:14pm
I can't believe you suspended that bob dude. Where's the right to free speech, he was attacked in a sneaky veiled way, it seems that anyone who really questions the method here either get banned or suspended, makes you wonder if there is a democracy here. I hope he comes back, but I doubt it as he knew something was going to happen, the dude was sharing for nothing, bloody good methods, was going to do real time for free, I hope you're proud the coward who suspended him. Who are you anyway, the thread police? Probably some thin necked pencil pusher in a backroom somewhere. Thumbs down.
  • #36,100
  • Jul 3, 2009 1:17pm Jul 3, 2009 1:17pm
Quoting Luso

The secret of this business is capital preservation and compounding.
True, true...

Have some fun with that notion. Build a spreadsheet and compound it over, say 60 periods. (Pick a number to compound - 10% is plenty) Start with 10,000. See the bottom line? Pretty nice. Sweet, in fact.

Now write that figure down and simulate a $500 dollar loss re-running the spreadsheet with a starting value of $9,500. A 500 dollar loss is not a 500 dollars anymore, is it?

Losses are to be avoided at all costs. Break Even is fine.

How do you make money then?

Pick the very best setups. They have confluence (fib, round number, divergence etc) and are at extremes or on a PPZ. You'll notice those trades have a strong tendency to move with some authority. How many 2 or 3 R trades a month do you need to:

  1. Learn safely
  2. While growing the account
  3. to get ready to move to the 4hr
  4. and have more opportunity to win?


Tell you what - give me ONE A++ setup a month on the dailies and I will grow my account, and someday, actually live very nicely on it.

Time is on my side. That simple fact works for me as an employee who never gets sick or takes a vacation.
I'm pretty much done with all this ...
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