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EUR/GBP Trendmagic System

  • #3,621
  • Jun 29, 2009 1:53pm Jun 29, 2009 1:53pm
[quote=Edgetrader;2837328]
Quoting paradoxical
I've read all the posts from many knowledgable traders about the repainting indicators, which change two or more bars back. As someone not being a full time trader, but one who would like to be, I have a question as to specific reason(s) why the repaint is a big issue. My understanding in observing the TG (or other repainting indi) is that it changes the bar or two previous based on increases/cecreases in the price. The more rapidly it is going, the more chance of repainting the bars before it.
If a person trades only...
I love your attitude towards repainting! I think repainting is a problem for those who want to backtest not trade. After reading almost hal of the posts here in this thread, I think that 90 % of people here are backtesters because active trading should not leave enough time to philosophize about 1000+ indicators
I have nothing against philosophers but they usually do not make money, just science
Indrek
  • #3,622
  • Jun 29, 2009 1:56pm Jun 29, 2009 1:56pm
Quoting paradoxical
I've read all the posts from many knowledgable traders about the repainting indicators, which change two or more bars back. As someone not being a full time trader, but one who would like to be, I have a question as to specific reason(s) why the repaint is a big issue. My understanding in observing the TG (or other repainting indi) is that it changes the bar or two previous based on increases/cecreases in the price. The more rapidly it is going, the more chance of repainting the bars before it.
If a person trades only after the second or third colored...
From what I understand, you can backtest a cross of 7/14 say and work out in how many cases it gives you x pips, therefore what mm strategy you can apply to make it profitable and under what conditions. A cross as it appears is unlikely to uncross 2 bars down the line. Visual Backtests with repainting indicators are difficult. Not to say that if you understand your indicators, these are of no use - I believe some traders use the semaphore's, cog's and zig-zags profitably, since they understand what these indicators are showing them as at that moment. e.g. they might be pointing to trades being setup, not necessarily as entry triggers. With the wrong understanding, of course, these would be disastrous.
  • #3,623
  • Jun 29, 2009 2:17pm Jun 29, 2009 2:17pm
I don't agree that TGHV should be dumped because of repainting. It will be pretty hard to break in positive on 1min / 5min since spread will kill you over long period. With 10-15 trades and aiming 10-15 pips TP, you're easy pray for market / brokers.

On the other hand 1h / 4h looks more tradeable, but my question to TG or some other traders who trade this timeframes, how do you handle this entries, since we can't be 24h at the desk. And good signals can appear over night.

I am wondering if anyone trades it somehow (beside EA)
  • #3,624
  • Edited 2:44pm Jun 29, 2009 2:21pm | Edited 2:44pm
Quoting SwingMan
I am appalled to read such things from a fine english lady.
You are not the owner of this thread to repeatedly thrown out members from Paulus thread.

Your contribution in the thread are two indicators - one who every coder can write in few hours, and an other useless because repainting. After thousands of posts about using this indicator, you come today with a warning.
This is not professional, and I recomand you also to leave this thread immediately, and to come back when you have more experience....
HEY PIG, Please read the first line of your thread!!!!!!
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=175994

"I learned a lot from the TrendMagic System and the autors (@Paulus and @TudorGirl), Swingman"
  • #3,625
  • Jun 29, 2009 2:33pm Jun 29, 2009 2:33pm
To all peope who doesn't like the system, why you post here? Find a system you like en discuss with them of if you have a great system, open a new threat. But please if you didnt like this it's beter to stay away from the threat.

If everybody is going to post in theats they didn't like.........
  • #3,626
  • Jun 29, 2009 2:45pm Jun 29, 2009 2:45pm
Quoting fxgg
I don't agree that TGHV should be dumped because of repainting. It will be pretty hard to break in positive on 1min / 5min since spread will kill you over long period. With 10-15 trades and aiming 10-15 pips TP, you're easy pray for market / brokers.

On the other hand 1h / 4h looks more tradeable, but my question to TG or some other traders who trade this timeframes, how do you handle this entries, since we can't be 24h at the desk. And good signals can appear over night.

I am wondering if anyone trades it somehow (beside EA)
I am testing this system from today on EU and GU at hourly charts. Have one position running on both pairs. Looks good so far.
I have never understood trading at short timeframes... For action, I would use paintball or full contact karate or sth else besides fx.
  • #3,627
  • Jun 29, 2009 2:59pm Jun 29, 2009 2:59pm
Quoting chilepip
HEY PIG, Please read the first line...
With your 4 postings and zero contributions, you are disqualified to give here advices. I'm not TG to make order in this thread, but please stop imediately to insult me. I informe also the admin about your impertinence.

And now the answer to your problem: at the begin surely was interesting to see a new trading idea and system. But after 2-3 weeks, Paulus posted only results, and TG present us a secret indi what she has copied, and now recomand we should no longer use it.
More chances for the practice are the ideas from Edge, and maybe is better to discuss this in a separat thread.
  • #3,628
  • Jun 29, 2009 3:08pm Jun 29, 2009 3:08pm
Quoting SwingMan
And now the answer to your problem: at the begin surely was interesting to see a new trading idea and system. But after 2-3 weeks, Paulus posted only results, and TG present us a secret indi what she has copied, and now recomand we should no longer use it.
More chances for the practice are the ideas from Edge, and maybe is better to discuss this in a separat thread.
Wasn't this tread meant namely for trading with the one only method and TG indicators? All other ideas, indicators or whatever do not belong here, as much as I understand.
Maybe I am just stupid but I do not find TG indicators useless. And if I would I would not come here nor posted anything here.
SwingMan, this was not meant against you. I like your work very much, too.
Indrek
  • #3,629
  • Edited 3:33pm Jun 29, 2009 3:22pm | Edited 3:33pm
Quoting paradoxical
I've read all the posts from many knowledgable traders about the repainting indicators, which change two or more bars back. As someone not being a full time trader, but one who would like to be, I have a question as to specific reason(s) why the repaint is a big issue. My understanding in observing the TG (or other repainting indi) is that it changes the bar or two previous based on increases/cecreases in the price. The more rapidly it is going, the more chance of repainting the bars before it.
If a person trades only after the second or third...
Hi Paradoxical,

There is a difference between certain types of indicators that repaint in real time.

If you are watching an MA_RSX, or a volume indicator, it's a dynamic indicator, so it's meant to be in motion, like the market. If you watch it in relation to PA of the candles, it's not just giving you A or B readings, it's giving you a lot of information about how the market is behaving.

The problem with indicators that are based purely on an A/B readings is that they just tell you to stop or go. You can't read the nuance of market behavior from them.

The candles are a great example of a real time repainting indicator that works. (a 4H candle is repainting for 4 hours)

But a 2 color bar indicator is like a stop light.

You are waiting at a train crossing in a VW bug, and the forex market is an express train. If the light turns green and you go, and get wiped out by the train and the light changes to red 45 minutes later, it's too late.

If you are waiting 3 bars on a 15M chart for confirmation from an indicator, that's 45 minutes you're waiting to enter a trade that's already started. You can enter a trade in the middle of a rally for 10 pips just by looking at the candles. The point is to get in to a trade at the right time, and to limit your liabilities as best as possible, not add to them by the potential of false signals.

An indicator that only gives you A/B options needs to be correct in real time, lag the necessary time for confirmation to present it's results accurately, or provide a greater differential of readings to be useful.

There really aren't any other viable options.
  • #3,630
  • Jun 29, 2009 3:41pm Jun 29, 2009 3:41pm
Quoting flyingdawg
The attached chart shows the system working really well at keeping me out of losers (of course, it's not always this perfect). Of those last 5 blue arrows, only the last one had all indicators in agreement at the time of the close of the accompanying bar. The third arrow looks like it did but that is due to repainting, and if you had entered on that bar, you still had a winning trade. I took 20 pips and exited. I don't intend to post anything else because I don't want to be a diversion. If anything I posted helped anyone, then I am happy about that....
I see the voracity and fisher transform on your chart, but what are the other bottom indicators? And what settings on the ma?
******************* I'd rather make money than be right.
  • #3,631
  • Jun 29, 2009 3:49pm Jun 29, 2009 3:49pm
4xStar. The two indis are THV3 Trend and a CCI set at 50.
Attached File(s)
File Type: ex4 THV3 trend.ex4   5 KB | 556 downloads
  • #3,632
  • Jun 29, 2009 3:50pm Jun 29, 2009 3:50pm
Quoting cjd
4xStar. The two indis are THV3 Trend and a CCI set at 50.
Thanks
******************* I'd rather make money than be right.
  • #3,633
  • Jun 29, 2009 3:52pm Jun 29, 2009 3:52pm
Quoting Indrek
...but I do not find TG indicators useless.

Sure they are not useless, and they can be tested with the MagicGirl EA.

  • #3,634
  • Jun 29, 2009 3:58pm Jun 29, 2009 3:58pm
Quoting TudorGirl
Yoiu are right, as ever, Edge. Paulus is indeed staying out of the way but I am in touch with him. I will return to the closed group and focus efforts there for the time being.

Anne
Hello Anne,

Seeing all the negativity on this thread now is disheartening. I, for one, would like to express my appreciation for all the hard work and hours you have spent on this.

I will be trying this system as posted, using Gleneagle's ideas for determining the best times to do so, along with money management principles I am already using. I will be happy to share my results once I have something worthwhile.

By the way, my wife is a programmer, too. She hasn't used MQL, but she has an idea that might help with the repainting. If you can send me a PM I can share it with you. I was unable to PM you.

All the best!
  • #3,635
  • Jun 29, 2009 4:55pm Jun 29, 2009 4:55pm
Hello Tudorgirl,

I did not see a reply from you on this. Can you reply if this is true or not?
If it is true this is not very professional.

Regards,
Jeff

Quoting leledc
Do you speak about stealing?????You have stolen bluto's code of volvox engine indicator(maurauder indicator's core)and you have renamed tudorgirls vorticity!!!!
  • #3,636
  • Jun 29, 2009 5:03pm Jun 29, 2009 5:03pm
Hello Swingman,

You are a truly a giver. I appreciate all the work you make available to people on this wonderful forum.

Regards,
Jeff

Quoting SwingMan

Sure they are not useless, and they can be tested with the MagicGirl EA.

  • #3,637
  • Jun 29, 2009 5:12pm Jun 29, 2009 5:12pm
Wow, Swingman, your sarcasm adds so much here. On a hopefully more positive note, there have been a number of questions about the charts I posted earlier today. I lost internet service for most of the day so I am just checking back here. Because of wonderful people like Swingman and Marlow I am going to take a break from this thread, which is the only thread I have followed in a very long time. So don't waste your time posting up to tell me how my charts have no place here and my chosen indicators don't work. For those who care, this is what is on my charts and what I use everyday to trade a real money account:

1. Trend Magic with Edge's suggested settings of 10 and 20 (the Hull MA that was mentioned yesterday also works well on a setting of 14 if you prefer the look of an MA rather than the step characteristics of the TM);
2. I strongly prefer the Renko candles that must be purchased but the system seems to work reasonably well on regular candles or Heiken Ashi if you find them helpful; Before Renko I traded mainly 1 minute charts so adjustments might need to be made for 5 minute or higher timeframes; I can't really help you with that as my trading is no longer time based;
3. The gold line is the THV Helpy or Cobra. That simply shows where price action is in relation to the zero line on the CCI 50. You DO NOT need that but I am a long time fan of the 50 CCI and knowing what is happening with that indicator is helpful to me in many ways so I keep it on my charts, along with the actual CCI 50 with 100, 200, -100 and -200 levels. Again, you DO NOT need that; it is a security blanket for me based on years of use;
4. The white line is the 200 ema. I believe that the 200 ema is the most powerful moving average on time based charts and want to see if it is effective on Renko price based charts.
5. The blue arrows represent the crossing of the 3 and 5 moving averages.
6. The first Fisher Transform is set to 8. It is my leading indicator. As it starts to change color, I begin to seriously look for a trend change. The other indicators most often will soon fall into alignment with the FT8.
7. This is the highly controversial TG Vorticity. I change the wingding to 108 rather than 110 to get the dots because I like the look of that better.
8. Next is Fisher Transform set to 18 per Edge's recommendation. Yes, it repaints but if all indicators are the same color, I go for it. Often it will not fall in line with the other indicators and will keep you out of a losing trade.
9. The THV trend (someone posted this recently) is the last indicator I added after much consideration. I use it mainly for entries as it often will get you out too soon if you exit on its color change. I set the yellow lines to 1 because I like that visual effect. Lots of those narrow lines means be real careful because the market is consolidated.
10. The X-meter can be valuable in choosing which currencies are strong and weak and thus which pairs to trade, but I usually am focused on GU and EU with Renko bars set to 5 pips. I have been watching the AUD/USD with a Renko bar setting of 3 pips and may be trading that soon.

That's it. If you try it, I wish you success.

I now need to concentrate on trading and get away from the incredible negativity of this thread. Thank you to all positive contributors.
  • #3,638
  • Edited 6:02pm Jun 29, 2009 5:58pm | Edited 6:02pm
Fudomyo, this is where I'm havfing some difficulties understanding what, if any difference there is between this Voricity indicator and using perhaps a combination of a moving average cross and a Trix, CCI or stochastic. Either one or all of these indicators move. The only difference I see is that instead of using lines of two crossing moving averages, or lines of a Trix, is that the Vorticity shows it's pip movement by a change in color. This is not unlike a HA candle turning from white to red as you watch it. That change in color is due to movement of the price. As you know, you can sit and watch a HA candle change colors back and forth. Many people wait for two or three HA bar changes in color before taking the trade. If one used a moving average cross with a stochastic to determine entry, he would enter when it crossed, and when the stochastic went over 20. That doesn't necessarily get him in the trade any faster tha the vorticity would. Also, there's no guarantee that the MA cross can turn back around, and the Stoch to go down past 20. The same chance, in my mind, of that Vorticity bar turning from blue back to red. In the case of what Tudor girl was saying, she was entering after the third same color bar. This was to confirm the trend. Yes, you could say that gets her in late. Another could say it keeps her out of false signals. If you were using the line indicators and MAs, you'd be in the trade too early and before the trend was fully established is what some might argue. Are these points valid? If not, why not? If other type indicators are superior, why isn't everyone a millionaire by now?
Quoting Fudomyo
Hi Paradoxical,

There is a difference between certain types of indicators that repaint in real time.

If you are watching an MA_RSX, or a volume indicator, it's a dynamic indicator, so it's meant to be in motion, like the market. If you watch it in relation to PA of the candles, it's not just giving you A or B readings, it's giving you a lot of information about how the market is behaving.

The problem with indicators that are based purely on an A/B readings is that they just tell you to stop or go. You can't read the nuance of market behavior...
  • #3,639
  • Jun 29, 2009 6:09pm Jun 29, 2009 6:09pm
[quote=paradoxical;2837718]Fudomyo, this is where I'm havfing some difficulties understanding what, if any difference there is between this Voricity indicator and using perhaps a combination of a moving average cross and a Trix, CCI or stochastic. Either one or all of these indicators move. The only difference I see is that instead of using lines of two crossing moving averages, or lines of a Trix, is that the Vorticity shows it's pip movement by a change in color. This is not unlike a HA candle turning from white to red as you watch it. That change in color is due to movement of the price. As you know, you can sit and watch a HA candle change colors back and forth. Many people wait for two or three HA bar changes in color before taking the trade. If one used a moving average cross with a stochastic to determine entry, he would enter when it crossed, and when the stochastic went over 20. That doesn't necessarily get him in the trade any faster tha the vorticity would. Also, there's no guarantee that the MA cross can turn back around, and the Stoch to go down past 20. The same chance, in my mind, of that Vorticity bar turning from blue back to red. In the case of what Tudor girl was saying, she was entering after the third same color bar. This was to confirm the trend. Yes, you could say that gets her in late. Another could say it keeps her out of false signals. If you were using the line indicators and MAs, you'd be in the trade too early and before the trend was fully established is what some might argue. Are these points valid? If not, why not? If other type indicators are superior, why isn't everyone a millionaire by now?[/quote]

Now there is a good question.

Am really wanting to see the answer to this.

The opening of 'Pandora's Box'.
  • #3,640
  • Jun 29, 2009 6:26pm Jun 29, 2009 6:26pm
Most repainting indicators don't show just the "price movement" but a "better option" once you are in a trade.

1pm: Indicator says "go long".
You go long.
2pm: After you lose 40 pips indicator says "Ok, I'm sorry. NOW you go long"
You go long.
4pm: After you lose 30 pips indicator says "Ok, I'm sorry. NOW you go long"
You go long.
5pm: After you lose 50 pips indicator says "Ok, I'm sorry. NOW you go long"
You go long.

At 8pm you see a nice chart, where everything was red until 5pm where now there's a signal.
Indicator says "What did I tell you? 5pm, the perfect time to go long".

-------------------------------------
I've tested the indicator (now I don't know if it's Anne's or if she took it from somewhere else) and I can say this for certain: I've been having a very frustrating time because once the indicator says something and I do it, it changes it's mind a lot of times (I'm saying 3 or 4 in one hour) which is the exact same thing as getting chopped to death with any indicator douring ranging time.
As for the mq4 presented as the code for Anne's (or whoever's) it repaints up to 10 bars in the past, only from what I have seen.
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