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  • #3,421
  • Jun 28, 2009 8:43pm Jun 28, 2009 8:43pm
Quoting Quantum4x
I'm wondering: What if that third one repaints?

You wait for a blue signal. Some turn red, some remain blue. After you see the third one you enter. You're now long and price begins to drop, and drop. Suddenly you see that the "third blue" turns into red and the next one is also red.
Do you use SL's?
What if, after all this, you enter short in that third red, and the same happens again turning into blue?

Since there's no way of knowing the past changes with this indicator, there's no way of back-testing.
With your mathematical background...
As there is NO WAY of verifying through backtesting the viability of a repainting indi, how about the 1H folks try to simplify things and trade some signals until any repainting issues are resolved.

There has already been a post set forth earlier showing the testing results of the GU 1H over the past six months. Those results were based on a 24 hour operation running an EA which signals almost exactly in sync with the TGV2 but does not repaint. Unfortunayely, that EA is not available for MT$ platforms. So what? You do not need it anyway.

Obviously, any pair you trade on ANY TF needs to be traded during peak market operational times. Review Gleneagles post and indi setup which clearly is a great tool to add to your tool box in order to ascertain optimum trading times.

In order to ease all the anxiety, have attached a chart of the GU with some really simple indi's. In fact, it has nothing more than a primer (14 WMA) and a trigger (Trix). Also added a ATR so you can ascertain the candle range upon signal generation.

Through some HA candles on those MT4 screens and try it. In fact, compare it to ANYTHING you have and you will see that looking for indi's and trying to figure out repainting issues is a waste of time. Look forward to anyone providing a more concise triggering mechanism.

As with the 5M, it is right in front of you. Simply put a nice 50-70 TP and reverse signal SL and go make a few trades. Same setup works on ALL pairs.

Trading LIVE signals with no repainting may not look as pretty as some of those colorful little indi's, but you are not in this for visual stimulation as pertaining to the color spectrum are you? TRADE!!!!!!!!! LIVE or DEMO!!!
You are getting no benefit from indi research as it provides no experience and costs valuable trading time.

Regards.
  • #3,422
  • Jun 28, 2009 8:44pm Jun 28, 2009 8:44pm
Here is the GU 1H chart.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: 5m.jpg Size: 130 KB
  • #3,423
  • Jun 28, 2009 8:51pm Jun 28, 2009 8:51pm
Quoting paradoxical
When that third bar you're looking at closes the same color as the prior two, an entry can be made based on the three bars being either red or blue. If I have this wrong, someone please correct me.
The entry can be made BUT the bar you entered can then change color.

1pm: BLUE: You wait.
2pm: BLUE: You wait.
3pm: BLUE: You wait until it closes and you enter LONG at 1.4750

But price then goes south. You entered at 1.4750 but it begins to drop and you're 1.4650 in one hour and THEN (and only THEN) the bar of 3pm turns RED.4pm closes red, and 5pm closes red.
Now you have this:

1pm: BLUE
2pm: BLUE
3pm: RED (You entered long @ 1.4750)
4pm: RED
5pm: RED
Price is now at 1.4600 and you've lost 150 pips.
Since you have three RED candles, you wait until the close of the third red one (5pm) and you go SHORT @ 1.46

Now tell me if this sounds familiar:
The minute you enter short, price begins to go up.
6pm now is a blue signal and, since the indicator repaints, 5pm turns blue. At 7pm price is again @ 1.4750 and you have this:

1pm: BLUE
2pm: BLUE
3pm: RED, originally third blue (You entered long @ 1.4750)
4pm: RED
5pm: BLUE, originally third red (You entered short @ 1.4600)
6pm: BLUE
7pm: BLUE

Since the indicator repaints, there is absolutely no guarantee that it won't be doing this again and again.
That's the reason I'm asking Tudor Girl.
  • #3,424
  • Jun 28, 2009 9:02pm Jun 28, 2009 9:02pm
Quoting Quantum4x
The entry can be made BUT the bar you entered can then change color.

1pm: BLUE: You wait.
2pm: BLUE: You wait.
3pm: BLUE: You wait until it closes and you enter LONG at 1.4750

But price then goes south. You entered at 1.4750 but it begins to drop and you're 1.4650 in one hour and THEN (and only THEN) the bar of 3pm turns RED.4pm closes red, and 5pm closes red.
Now...
Hate to keep butting in, but that is exactly my point.

The TGV2 will ALWAYS repaint and is not the best choice of indi's available to you at this point in time.

Until the internal issues are resolved with such, what is the point of trying to use such?

Regards.
  • #3,425
  • Jun 28, 2009 9:11pm Jun 28, 2009 9:11pm
Quoting Edgetrader
TRADE!!!!!!!!! LIVE or DEMO!!!
You are getting no benefit from indi research as it provides no experience and costs valuable trading time.
Edge:
Thanks for another elegant and educational response. You really take the time to "ADD" to the thread.
I do trade, live, and I make consistent 30+ pips per day. Consistently to a point in which as for last week I began a "career modification" so I can trade half time (and I have a 20 employee company).
I'm very glad that you see my posts as trying to "ADD" even though I'm trying to see the flaws. I think there's absolutely no point in posting "great job, will buy a Yacht and name it after you" and I find it childish when a person who posts a system gets mad when people try to see the flaws instead of making a saint out of the creator.
What a system needs to be better is people finding flaws, not saying how good it is.

I am actually with a 5m chart, putting an arrow and waiting 5 minutes more to put the other one, waiting 5 minutes more and putting the next one. The indicator has a lot of potential. In fact I'm asking Tudor Girl about it because I WANT TO KNOW her point of view as a mathematical driven decision maker.
  • #3,426
  • Jun 28, 2009 9:11pm Jun 28, 2009 9:11pm
Yeah. I agree with both of you. I have wrote an EA based on the same method, and discover that it is very bad. Then I discovered the repainting issue. I think the indy does not have the yellow bar which indicates no trading as I saw in some screenshots but on my MT4, there is no yellow bar. Maybe if the indy include this, it might perform better?
  • #3,427
  • Jun 28, 2009 9:24pm Jun 28, 2009 9:24pm
Hello all,

What a thread. Has taken me a week on and off to read the whole thing. I wanted to share a bit of my earlier successes, and plans to try the other concepts that have emerged on here.

Trading with HV on a 1hr chart (my favorite TF), I pulled in approx. 800 pips in the course of 4 days. A bit of a hairy ride on a few of these trades going into drawdown areas that were close to the nearest support levels, so I am very interested in being part of the 1 hour group to try out the new version of the Vortacity indicator. Anne, could I be a part of the new 1 hour group please?

I have played around with the original indicators on the 1M and 5M, but cannot give a final feeling on those. Have never been a big fan of the small TF's with all the noise, but the original indicators (along with other key fundamentals) seem fairly profitable. I am going to give both of those a good go over the next couple weeks.

I am also going to try out the other methods that caught my eye. The method by Edge sounds very interesting!

If anyone out there has a method that has really worked very well for them that has appeared on this thread, I would love to hear about it and hear about your successes!

Great work everyone on making this thread an excellent place for everyone to learn.

Thanks!
Powercouple
  • #3,428
  • Jun 28, 2009 9:27pm Jun 28, 2009 9:27pm
GU short at asia open 16512 out with +25
Short again at 1.6480 out with +25

EJ short at asia open133.95 out with +20

EU short at asia open 1.4063 out with +40
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: gu.gif Size: 87 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: ej.gif Size: 88 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: eu.gif Size: 70 KB
  • #3,429
  • Jun 28, 2009 9:27pm Jun 28, 2009 9:27pm
Quoting Edgetrader
Until the internal issues are resolved with such, what is the point of trying to use such?
Anne had a good 5M system with Paul and then she changed it to 1H and she says that she is using only that indicator alone (besides pivots).
That's the point!
A mathematical driven person knows what an indicator does, internally.
A lot of people try to create a system when:
a) The bar turns green on indicator TOM
and
b) The line goes above 0 on indicator JERRY
Too many false signals? OK: Add CCI(50) or put Smoothed HA's
Doesn't work? Add LaGuerre and nonlagdot.
Still doesn't work? Enter FF and see what the indis on the new post are. Grab one. Then FORGET EVERYTHING YOU'VE LEARNED and begin from zero, only because the last one had a couple of bad entrances.

So the response is asking a person who really knows why she would use an indicator that repaints. Why a mathematical mind would choose a repainter knowing that under specific circumstances she could be chopped to death in a ranging market. She knows very well all these potential problems. Way better than me.

Maybe I'm missing the point. Maybe the programming in the indicator doesn't allow that to happen.
I just want to know
  • #3,430
  • Jun 28, 2009 9:33pm Jun 28, 2009 9:33pm
Quoting walb99
Do you mean the HMA indi?
yes i mean the HMA indi.
  • #3,431
  • Jun 28, 2009 9:50pm Jun 28, 2009 9:50pm
Quoting Quantum4x
Edge:
Thanks for another elegant and educational response. You really take the time to "ADD" to the thread.
I do trade, live, and I make consistent 30+ pips per day. Consistently to a point in which as for last week I began a "career modification" so I can trade half time (and I have a 20 employee company).
I'm very glad that you see my posts as trying to "ADD" even though I'm trying to see the flaws. I think there's absolutely no point in posting "great job, will buy a Yacht and name it after you" and I find it childish when a person who...
While I can appreciate the mathematical intricacies involved in indicator development and usage, I have also recently provided Anne my opinion as per her request on some 1H issues, including the TGV2.

As I feel the TGV2 has very little to offer when trading a 1H, I think that even less is offered at the 5M level. As both a professional trader and trading consultant, I have had the pleasure of sitting in and contributing in the development of several trading plans that have been fortunately productive.

Have born witness to many well educated people strive and struggle to improve on that which needs only implementation to succeed. Trading plans from MA crosses to complex algorithms all end up with simplistic triggers at their core in each and every case. Am sure you , as a professional trader and business operator can attest to this fact. The biggest hurdle I myself encounter is that many astute people simply disregard the obvious and instead search for meaning to the trading equations via indicator development.

We could sit here and find flaws in every trading plan offered, free or for purchase. None work at 100% nor will they ever. Perhaps our goals are different via this thread.

While I certainly can understand and respect your efforts at identifying and isolating potential flaws, they are readily apparent and easily recognizable.

I am not really interested in 'adding' any perceived value to such at this point. I instead am trying to focus on ascertaining if there are any potential 'traders' in our midst. There are indeed and my efforts later this week are really going to concentrate on those individuals.

As always, am not trying to step on anyones toes and am admittedly blunt and coarse at times. Have just seen way too many folks with the potential to do well in trading fall by the wayside by losing focus on trading and instead going on indi hunts.

Absolutely no disrespect intended in this post and admire your level of commitment and dedication to an industry that offers those who set forth some decent effort the arguably best JOB in the world.

Regards.
  • #3,432
  • Jun 28, 2009 9:55pm Jun 28, 2009 9:55pm
I have been very impressed with your results that I have seen on this thread. I looked through the posts and I didn't see a template from you. Are you willing to share your template or your settings on your indicators?

Thank you!


Quoting nuancom
GU short at asia open 16512 out with +25
Short again at 1.6480 out with +25

EJ short at asia open133.95 out with +20

EU short at asia open 1.4063 out with +40
  • #3,433
  • Jun 28, 2009 10:08pm Jun 28, 2009 10:08pm
Your recommendation then is that the Vorticity indicator shopuld not be used. That's cool. Most here, I think, would defer to your professional trading knowledge. If they didn't, well. I don't know what to say. Are you OK with the fxfariz technique scalping indi?
Quoting Edgetrader
While I can appreciate the mathematical intricacies involved in indicator development and usage, I have also recently provided Anne my opinion as per her request on some 1H issues, including the TGV2.

As I feel the TGV2 has very little to offer when trading a 1H, I think that even less is offered at the 5M level. As both a professional trader and trading consultant, I have had the pleasure of sitting in and contributing in the development of several trading plans that have been fortunately productive.

Have born witness to many well educated...
  • #3,434
  • Jun 28, 2009 10:24pm Jun 28, 2009 10:24pm
Just my input. as a professional trader, is that there is a huge difference
between a repainting indicator as confirmation and a repainting
indicator as the reason you are entering a trade. A huge difference.
  • #3,435
  • Jun 28, 2009 10:35pm Jun 28, 2009 10:35pm
Guys...Any repainting indicator is as good as a dead indicator.

4 Years back...There was this same buzz and following about Fisher indicator and how coders and traders took pain to trading with and moved on.

This is too much work to watch three candle and take a trade.

I dont blame we all have to go through this process of identifying what works well for each one of us.

Good Luck with repainting indicators....just dont blame anyone at the end of it all.
  • #3,436
  • Jun 28, 2009 10:45pm Jun 28, 2009 10:45pm
21 pips on repainting TG Vorticity. Thanks TudarGirl I love this indicator. It works great with ZZ indis. Just need to know how to use it.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: scalp.gif Size: 21 KB
  • #3,437
  • Edited 11:34pm Jun 28, 2009 11:13pm | Edited 11:34pm
Quoting spiderforex
Guys...Any repainting indicator is as good as a dead indicator.
What I think is that we don't know that.
We asume that a repainting indicator is bad. However, we can't really know if we don't measure it's results even repainting.

How would a person like Anne, who not only knows that it repaints but knows -something that the rest of us don't- WHY it repaints, use it?
If she knows the reason and still does, it's because the indicator works even repainting.

Do you think a person with her background wouldn't know the difference between a zig-zag or a Solar Wind, and this indicator?

If the perfect-indicator can give 100 pips, and one that changes his mind can give 50... I'd rather have 50 real pips than 100 dreamed ones. The positivistic (word in english?) approach would be similar to saying there's 9 dimensions... it doens't really matter as long as it helps explain the Universe. We don't know if there are, or if there are not. Focus on the result. Show-me-the-money.

I've been all night painting arrows every 5 minutes, just to do some basic testing. But even that would not be representative statistically speaking.
Again, the reason I'm asking is because she knows the ecuations behind it, and she knows what I'd know after adding arrows every 5 minutes for months.
  • #3,438
  • Jun 28, 2009 11:18pm Jun 28, 2009 11:18pm
Quoting cjd
21 pips on repainting TG Vorticity. Thanks TudarGirl I love this indicator. It works great with ZZ indis. Just need to know how to use it.

PLEASE STOP POSTING THESE BS CHARTS!
This shows nothing when you have a clear trend. Post a chart in the
midst of a choppy session. Any idicator u use will be great when its trending! What happens when its a chop shop it kills your account.
Market Makers are the best
  • #3,439
  • Jun 28, 2009 11:19pm Jun 28, 2009 11:19pm
Quoting cjd
21 pips on repainting TG Vorticity. Thanks TudarGirl I love this indicator. It works great with ZZ indis. Just need to know how to use it.

hey bro can u give us those ZZ indies u got at the bottom? appreciate it, thx!
  • #3,440
  • Jun 28, 2009 11:28pm Jun 28, 2009 11:28pm
My 1st 15 pips of the day/week :-)

FXDD Live
GBPUSD
5M
Buy @ 1.6462
Exit @ 1.6477
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: dxtrade.gif Size: 19 KB
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