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Where can I learn more about Price Action like those in James16 charts? 9 replies

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james16 Chart Thread

  • #35,341
  • Jun 28, 2009 10:55am Jun 28, 2009 10:55am
Quoting mea
sorry I do not remeber if I knew i would have told you!

this is a task to go through each and every page.

I can send the PDF if you want, but i only have part2 and did not read through either, to much stuff i do not like to read

watch the videos and if you still do not understand watch them again and again and ask q, this will be answered in this forum, believe me!
ok could you send me the PDF, please? where could I watch the video from? thanks very much
  • #35,342
  • Jun 28, 2009 11:04am Jun 28, 2009 11:04am
Quoting ronald_fsm
ok could you send me the PDF, please? where could I watch the video from? thanks very much
I think these are the PDF's mentioned:

http://www.forexfactory.com/attachme...02009%202:21pm

http://www.forexfactory.com/attachme...02009%201:43pm
  • #35,343
  • Jun 28, 2009 11:12am Jun 28, 2009 11:12am
videos in guest area can look

http://www.james16group.us/
  • #35,344
  • Jun 28, 2009 11:33am Jun 28, 2009 11:33am
Quoting ghous
I've been studying such situations in quite detail and concluded that No. In an uptrend (I mean during the trend and not at a pull back) a bullish pin bar looses it's value as a bullish weapon and is actually a bearish bar inside a bull's skin. The same is true for a down trend where a bearish pin bar is actually signaling a bull run round the corner.

Again this is for the most part, and you can always find examples when such pin bars will work in the conventional method we know...

try and do some back and forward testing and you'll see...


Hi Ghous


Thanks for this. I will take a closer look at those charts and the other postings.


pchees
  • #35,345
  • Jun 28, 2009 11:45am Jun 28, 2009 11:45am
Quoting bundyraider

Hi pchees,

There is a certain type of pin that rules the roost when it comes to reversals....

Hi

Thanks for the comprehensive answer. Those pins (2 & 3) are real bread and butter trades. Wish they happened all the time!

They seem to be the most powerful PA signals especially if there is confluence with EMA, Fibs etc.

It's very refreshing to trade with minimal or no indicators and look at the basics.

I guess when you have to many indicators etc you "can't see the wood through the trees". You become so bogged down with everything you just lose the big picture.

How many times have I done that in the past! :-)

pchees
  • #35,346
  • Jun 28, 2009 11:48am Jun 28, 2009 11:48am
Quoting Revone
It really depends on the trend itself, if you see a strong up trend, with bullish Pinbars in it, and say 2 appear in the trend, and the trend continues after those pins, then you see another one, well, it's a good indication to take the damn trade and go long, it's that simple.

When I see a bullish up trend and then I see a bullish pinbar in the trend, I look back and see how to the trend reacted in the past.

Sure it's seller's weighing in and your right it's a sign that things MAY turn, but the bulls in the case I stated above were still in control,...

Hi

So the best thing to do in this scenario is check the previous history of that pair and see what it did when one of these pin bars (in line with the trend) appeared.

Particular pairs behave differently at different times I guess.

How far back would you normally check? A week, month?

pchees
  • #35,347
  • Jun 28, 2009 12:12pm Jun 28, 2009 12:12pm
Quoting mea
Thanks for your inside, I like to be corrected because only than I can learn from my judgements!

Yes
but big orderflow are not coming from those who do watch MA's but those make mainly decisions off S/R lines.

wouldn't you agree?

this is what i was trying to say!

And just like you said, History is an important element

S/R are historical in this case I am talking about S/R formed back in 2004 first time back 06/25/09!

Watch the PPZ 1.7208 - 1.7428 close friday....going back
to 2004-2007-2008

And this is much stronger than...
Yes. Mas are tools to add to confluence. I did acknowledge in that post (where I discussed the Eur/Aud IPB) the existence of the long term weekly ppz Mea.

Quote
PA ... did this not develop off the S/R line in this case 1.7208 as a strong bounce off buy signal!
Again you seem to be confound. Ok let's solve it like this...

What kind of PA would you have liked to see at this ppz?
I believe . . .
  • #35,348
  • Jun 28, 2009 12:18pm Jun 28, 2009 12:18pm
Quoting pchees
Hi

So the best thing to do in this scenario is check the previous history of that pair and see what it did when one of these pin bars (in line with the trend) appeared.

Particular pairs behave differently at different times I guess.

How far back would you normally check? A week, month?

pchees
Quote
Particular pairs behave differently at different times I guess.
Only very slightly...

in fact it is trivial enough to be ignored altogether, that is, when we're talking abt trading PA james16 way.

When we focus on the prime factors that drive markets (PPZs and other confluence sources) we can apply the concept on any pair, any market, and time frame...the only thing that changes is the psychology to handle the the trades in a different medium...but generally talking abt Price Action it remains fairly similar across most markets and times.

Quote
How far back would you normally check? A week, month?
As far as you want. Pondering over a trade setup during times when you were not even born won't make it much different than wondering over a setup that popped up this weekend, again because of the fairly consistent mechanics of PA.

Regards,
Ghous.
I believe . . .
  • #35,349
  • Edited 1:40pm Jun 28, 2009 1:27pm | Edited 1:40pm
Here some basic things about zones.

Plot them in week chart from history to situation now.

Like this show clearly why we have now ranging market in gbp/usd

And we will se road to up is not clear soon comes next "buss stops"
if price go more up.

Attached Image


Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: setup.gif Size: 15 KB


Edit: some info: like we see there was beatifull pinbar and pow it´s stop in zone.
so clearly before can see where possible zone, wall, resistance, pivot zone (many names same thing)
are and plan to trade.

And zones are maeby biggest secret of forex in my mind,
discover them in weekly chart and ask after that "who dear to say forex is random market?"

More about zones to new player from this Clockwork71 5 star treat
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=155431
  • #35,350
  • Jun 28, 2009 2:08pm Jun 28, 2009 2:08pm
  •  kean
  • | Joined Sep 2008 | Status: James16group Lifetime Member | 92 Posts
Just wondered if anyone had any views on this pinbar...
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: gold.gif Size: 13 KB
  • #35,351
  • Jun 28, 2009 2:37pm Jun 28, 2009 2:37pm
Sorry for the off-topic but where did SeekingLight disappear? Or is he still active in the PF?
  • #35,352
  • Jun 28, 2009 2:42pm Jun 28, 2009 2:42pm
I will be starting to demo trade the 4 hour charts this week. I wanted to jot down some of the things I'm thinking. I'm starting without too much advise/research, so I'll be hoping to pick up a lot as I practice in the next several months.

I want to emphasize to all new and inexperienced traders following this thread that I have been following James16's minimum requirements explained in the first post. I would strongly encourage you to back off intraday trading until you have completed the 5-6 months of daily/weekly. (demo, then live). You'll develop a patience, knowledge, and confidence of the subject matter that you simply cannot do in a few weeks. It takes time for us to embed these positive practices into our normal habits. Everyone I've talked to says that intraday trading with PA requires extra patience and pickiness. I don't see how you can gain that without dailys. Just my opinion though, coming from my own experience.

1. I'll start with only using the 4pm,8pm,12am,4am,8am,12pm CT time interval. I have the broker to provide all four 4hour time intervals, but I think that would be information overload, at least initially. My unknowns here are 1. Is it ok to miss one of the 6 bar closes to sleep? Assuming it's 'ok', which would be best to miss WHILE still not disrupting my family life. 4PM is when I also look at daily charts as it marks the end of NY and seems to be a good time to refresh the day charts. So I might as well also look at the 4hr... the only two bar closes I'm considering are the 8pm CT (near the JPY lunch) and the midnight (which is still before any of Europe opens).

2. Along those same lines as above... I have no reservations about placing daily trades as soon as I make a decision (say by 5:00ct). But with intraday trades, I am wondering if I should be more concerned. Specifically, is it wise to not take 4hour signals between say 5-10pm or so...

3. And again about timeframes... how will I plan out my sleeping. If I don't change anything, I would miss only the midnight bar close... but this is also the close 2 hours prior to London open and maybe it's wise to be in the market by that open if the signal presents itself.

4. Exit strategies. As I've talked briefly about in the past, my strategy for trading the daily timeframe will not be directly applicable to intraday trading. The main reason for this is that intraday trading allows for much more lucrative R:R because of the smaller bars, and hence smaller stops. So I'll be testing several strategies for each trade.

5. The more I read, the more cautious I become on testing trade management strategies. I am wondering if what I am doing falls more along the lines of 'curve fitting.' But if I have no results to compare vastly different strategies, how can I pick one? Hmmm...

Anything big that I may be missing? These questions and more will be those I try to solve in the first month or so of trading 4hr. Then I can still have 2-3 months of practicing intraday trading exactly how I intend to do so when I go live. I will be backtesting a lot too, but I haven't worked out the details of that yet (want to figure out these topics first).

Again, open to all advise/comments and I suppose criticism too...

Josh
  • #35,353
  • Jun 28, 2009 2:43pm Jun 28, 2009 2:43pm
Quoting Goozman
Sorry for the off-topic but where did SeekingLight disappear? Or is he still active in the PF?

Still active on the PF
  • #35,354
  • Jun 28, 2009 2:44pm Jun 28, 2009 2:44pm
Quoting Goozman
Sorry for the off-topic but where did SeekingLight disappear? Or is he still active in the PF?
I'm sure someone in the PF will better answer, but I think he is still active in there. I really got a lot out of his posts (despite the EW stuff, lol). He has a lot of great stuff on holding a trade for the big move.

Josh
  • #35,355
  • Jun 28, 2009 2:54pm Jun 28, 2009 2:54pm
this one opinion

Daily charts are more easy when no have so much experience.
Those fellows who post and trade 4h are normally done this method long time.


Many take day trades from daily charts.


The key is to win more than loose, not maxsimais trading
opportunies =risk oppotunies to fail in setup.


Even steady 2% gain per month with addet more fund
to account makes together some massive account
sooner than many even toughts.


Daily charts are more tress free and can sleep
work etc.

Some takes and keep trades long time
like looking geppy 1 day chart sure someone has even
got trade open long time with nearly 10 000 plus pips...woot.
  • #35,356
  • Jun 28, 2009 3:50pm Jun 28, 2009 3:50pm
Quoting Jduester
I will be starting to demo trade the 4 hour charts this week....
I'd personally look to spend time with the family around 1pm pst-4pst, and perhaps sleep at 4 PST, and wake up at 12am pst. That is by far the most dead period for trading, and you could still maintain a relatively normal lifestyle. You could also just avoid the family for a few days here and there, and then take a few days off and hang with them all of the time. Thats the great part about trading imo
  • #35,357
  • Jun 28, 2009 3:53pm Jun 28, 2009 3:53pm
Quoting Jlr
I'd personally look to spend time with the family around 1pm pst-4pst, and perhaps sleep at 4 PST, and wake up at 12am pst. That is by far the most dead period for trading, and you could still maintain a relatively normal lifestyle. You could also just avoid the family for a few days here and there, and then take a few days off and hang with them all of the time. Thats the great part about trading imo

Would be ideal... except that's when my family (wife) works... so 5-10pm CT is when we normally have time together.

Josh
  • #35,358
  • Jun 28, 2009 3:56pm Jun 28, 2009 3:56pm
Quote
I want to emphasize to all new and inexperienced traders following this thread that I have been following James16's minimum requirements explained in the first post. I would strongly encourage you to back off intraday trading until you have completed the 5-6 months of daily/weekly. (demo, then live). You'll develop a patience, knowledge, and confidence of the subject matter that you simply cannot do in a few weeks. It takes time for us to embed these positive practices into our normal habits. Everyone I've talked to says that intraday trading with...


hi Josh, i have a couple of points i would like to raise, but firstly i think the piece of advice you give is golden!


Quote
1. I'll start with only using the 4pm,8pm,12am,4am,8am,12pm CT time interval. I have the broker to provide all four 4hour time intervals, but I think that would be information overload, at least initially. My unknowns here are 1. Is it ok to miss one of the 6 bar closes to sleep? Assuming it's 'ok', which would be best to miss WHILE still not disrupting my family life. 4PM is when I also look at daily charts as it marks the end of NY and seems to be a good time to refresh the day charts. So I might as well also look at the 4hr... the only two bar...

i think you have to sleep sometime!! lol. i think everyone would agree that the asian sessions are the least volatile most of the time. i think you could happily forget about bars after the us close untill 8 am euro/gb time.
The same goes for number 2 also. although trades taken at this time can run just as well astrades taken at miday but not as often.

Quote
3. And again about timeframes... how will I plan out my sleeping. If I don't change anything, I would miss only the midnight bar close... but this is also the close 2 hours prior to London open and maybe it's wise to be in the market by that open if the signal presents itself.

do you really want to trade 24 h a day!!??
in my experience it can pay to be in the market before eu/gb open.( for some reason i seem to do well trading from 6-8am??) But i think of this change (when the eu/gb markets open) as i do when the us opens miday (my time) as i have found price could reverse as easily as it can continue.

Quote
4. Exit strategies. As I've talked briefly about in the past, my strategy for trading the daily timeframe will not be directly applicable to intraday trading. The main reason for this is that intraday trading allows for much more lucrative R:R because of the smaller bars, and hence smaller stops. So I'll be testing several strategies for each trade.

not sure i agree with you entirely here. if you consider that a trade taken on the daily TF would,for the sake of a number, average about 10 bars before being stopped, i think the same applies for each TF and so generally i would think they are about equall in R:R expectancy, except mabye more setups to take? EXCEPT of course if you get in a nice trend, your tighter stops would make a difference to the R:R then i think.But only that one trade. I think another possible advantage is that you may get more oppertunities to add to a profitable trade if you include 4h TFs in your trading?? i personally think the trade management is basically the same for each TF (only faster,hehe)... take partial profit at the first PPZ , move SL to BE.etc.and will depend on how you grade the setup. bare in mind tighter stops get hit more often which, i think, is why it will even out.

i was wondering if you plan to use intraday PPZs for 4h trades ?i.e. ones you would not have normally drawn in or considered.?
just my 2 pips.
cheers
jon
PATIENCE... DISCIPLINE
  • #35,359
  • Jun 28, 2009 4:02pm Jun 28, 2009 4:02pm
Quoting Jduester
I will be starting to demo trade the 4 hour charts this week.
Hey Josh,

I am in this phase to and wanted to chime in. Two parts to this post. The first is just some random thoughts on perfectionism that your post and some replies sparked. Next post is my more specific findings so far from demo. None of this is directed at you, in fact I think you taught me some of it, but I love posts that send a few thoughts flying round in my head and make me want to write them down in this, my "online journal"

We both share this view but I am putting it out there for the thread. Lower timeframes are nothing to be afraid of if you graduate to them after the proper preparation. James lays out the minimum requirements. If you can fulfill those and you want to move down, then go for it. They are the same. Just quicker, with more signals and therefore you have to make decisions on the fly. I personally believe the concept of price action being less reliable on the lower timeframes is a myth. (And not to put words in his mouth but I am pretty sure James16 has said this again and again in the thread). You just need to know where your PPZs are and react accordingly.

I also believe James when he says that going to lower timeframes first without learning to do this on daily and weekly is a huge killer of novice traders.

Personally, and I realise my views will not be shared by all, I think that it's okay to trade daily, 4h, 15m, 1m...in fact whatever you like.... as long as you do it on demo. That's what demo is for. Do you think you've got a scalping strategy to beat the market? Great. Put in the months on demo. Demo is my sandbox. I have 3 or 4 different demo accounts each for a different strategy or style and as long as it doesn't get to overload me too much, that's where I do my research and development. I think of it like a big corporation. As I am rolling out my new product I have several other products in different stages of development. After all, if all you do is dailies and weeklies, there is time to try new things out.

Which is a long winded way of saying don't be afraid. I was for a long time. Try out every little idea or hunch you have. Don't slavishly imitate someone. Take what works and build from it. There's a reason every one of the seniors trades a different way. They played around and found their comfort zone.

But James' minimum requirements mean that we don't have to lose a penny of really money while we're working this out. Doesn't mean we won't. I lost a ton, like many others, because I was an over eager idiot. But then I swung the other way into the super cautious camp. And that was just as much a trap for me. I wasn't even going to open a demo account until I had read every book there was and absorbed all concepts. Just perfectionism jumping up to bite me again.

Now, I have to remind myself that if I am bored and want to have fun then I can open a demo account and click madly at the screen all day. It works for me to kill my perfectionism and get it out of my system. Then I go back to my live trading and R&D.

Next post...
  • #35,360
  • Jun 28, 2009 4:15pm Jun 28, 2009 4:15pm
Quoting Jduester
2. Along those same lines as above... I have no reservations about placing daily trades as soon as I make a decision (say by 5:00ct). But with intraday trades, I am wondering if I should be more concerned. Specifically, is it wise to not take 4hour signals between say 5-10pm or so...

Josh
One of my biggest hurdles was the speed. It is easy to sit down and look at the daily with your mind where it needs to be. Obviously the 4hr comes often, moods change through your daily cycle and you have to make quick decisions at sometimes inopportune times. I added one line to my trade plan check list which helped a lot.

How am I feeling?
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