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Andrews Pitchfork (Median Line)

  • #401
  • Jun 21, 2009 8:55am Jun 21, 2009 8:55am
Quoting auxesis

A modified Schiff is the natural channel derived from the prior 3 turns, why it is so effective.

regards,
These are elegant words. Can you elaborate please?

I wish you good trading.

Tim
  • #402
  • Jun 21, 2009 9:01am Jun 21, 2009 9:01am
Quoting auxesis
Longilo,

Any (using fork terminology 0-2 line) is the angle of the resulting modified shift. M.Schiffs describe the natural channels, abcd’s, measured moves ect... I have a couple of different fib channel configurations I keep preloaded and normally reference the m.schiff on every set I draw.

Regards,
First, I am going to change my name every 25 post, so no one knows who I am.

Second, if they are not proprietary, can you show us examples of the various fib channels [just diagrammed images] of the various fib channels you keep preloaded? I am always curious how others think about and use these tools. The best way to master a tool is to turn it over in your hand and look at it from every angle a thousand times a day [a roofer on a trading forum told me that long ago].

My thanks. I wish you good trading.

Tim
  • #403
  • Edited 10:30am Jun 21, 2009 10:17am | Edited 10:30am
Tim,

You have seen them before on your forum, but some of my thoughts on forks are outside the normal methodology presented here.

I basically just use two, one would be used for the modified shift and the other is a fib projection drawn down the median set, measured from the 0, fork anchor and the 1-2 line.

Just my own thoughts, but forks have built into them the ability to measure both price and time. Of course, as you have taught, price action can choose to respect/disrespect any line or timing measure so emphasis should be placed on market structure first, the tools used to help confirm.

It’s great to see you here.

Regards,

edit: zoomed out for better viewing the relationships of the forks fib projection for warning line construction
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  • #404
  • Jun 21, 2009 10:38am Jun 21, 2009 10:38am
Thanks Auxesis, this is real interesting. I need to spend time to enjoy studying your charts.

Have a good one
Jeff


Quoting auxesis
Tim,...
~*~You are only one trade away from humility~*~
  • #405
  • Jun 21, 2009 11:26am Jun 21, 2009 11:26am
Quoting jharteam
Thanks Auxesis, this is real interesting. I need to spend time to enjoy studying your charts.

Have a good one
Jeff
Jeff,

Thanks,

I truly believe there's so much more that can be done with forks, but in reality the simple setups, allowing price to show itself, change of state, test and retest are best for simplicity and r:r.

Here's a link to another thread discussion on time/price that has my thoughts on forks and their representations..... this should label me as a median line heretic...

Have a great weekend.

http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...6&postcount=13
  • #406
  • Jun 21, 2009 4:51pm Jun 21, 2009 4:51pm
Many thanks for your reply, and I will say am flattered, that the Grandmaster of median line methods is defending the Great tool.

Honestly, am disappointed, if after so many years of using a tool you cant
say that the research carried out by Greg is correct and that after so
many years of trading and teaching you have prove it in your trading.

why do so many experts hid behind money management?
why do they hid behind trading psychology and discipline?

what hope do newbies have using a tool that the expert in
that method earns their money from teaching not trading.

if one have a good trading tool its natural that other things will follow.
but here we are combing the net like a hamster on wheels looking
for a marvelous tool only to be told that using moving averages and MACD
or anything will make you money if you have good money management.

am wondering whether trading is a profession or Gambling?
do you tell a lawyer or doctor to learn money management?

Does this sound depressing----please clear the air an expert to the rescue.

longilo
  • #407
  • Edited 6:58pm Jun 21, 2009 6:24pm | Edited 6:58pm
I will sum up the post above: Cognitive Bias.....!

They are not perfect, nor infallible. Call it what you want, I really dont know what your goal is to find out if its gambling or professional....If you knew would it matter? Babe Ruth is a hall of Fame player, he failed 7 out of 10 times at the plate on average. thats a 30% success rate, considered great by many....How does this relate to you and I...? We dont have to swing when we dont feel its right...we have the luxury to choose when we want put on a position. That in itself is a edge...!

When I was at ****** in long island, my hit rates were less than 56.3%, however my expectancy was well within my R/R parameters of a 3-1 or better. In the long run a system that follows strict risk measures that include volatility filters such as position sizing etc, one can only conclude that the foundation has been set. Psychology plays a major role in trading as Tim has eluded too earlier. If you dont follow your rules you have lost before you began. Gambling...? Go to the craps table and bet on black or red...It is has a 50/50 chance of winning, but it also pays on 1-1 on your money for each bet, the best MM in the world will not test out over the long haul. Thats Gambling! There is no expectancy of reward thats worth the RISK....Give me a 3-1 or better reward and I can assure you over the long run I will come out ahead, but if I cant master myself in terms of following my system then thats another issue....Which in my opinion is the biggest hurdle for all traders both large and small.

Lets not lose focus on the goal here in this thread. If you question the validity of the median line methodology or other strategies for that matter, maybe you should consider another thread and gain some fulfillment in another way other than trying to convince yourself whether the markets are gambling or professional. What you ask is one of thousands of issues from running stops, market manipulation, which brokers are scams, cheating, blah blah blah....Speculation is a business and its hard, real damn hard. What you should ask yourself is if you have the self discipline to study, test and execute...? My 2 cents.
  • #408
  • Jun 21, 2009 7:05pm Jun 21, 2009 7:05pm
Rising Sun,

Tis best not to feed the trolls. The post is more of an attack than a request for additional information and is not worthy of the bandwidth to respond.

Just use the ignore feature.
  • #409
  • Jun 21, 2009 7:09pm Jun 21, 2009 7:09pm
I really don't know what you are trying to drive at for this post. As Auxesis or Tim have mentioned, you will be the one to do the research and due diligence. And you will be the one to research on materials of subjects of your interests. If you are too lazy of even doing that, I would kindly suggest you to get the heck out of trading; because I can almost guarantee you will lose every penny of your trading account. What do you mean by 'hiding behind money management and trading psychology'???!!! Pesonally speaking, this is the last leg of my learning in the profession of financial trading. I thought it was the methodologies that are the most important, but it's not. MM and trading psychology are the hardest to deal with. As far as I'm concern, you have alot of hot air to release in your system. If you are happy to see the setups and presentations of this methodology; stay and learn the ins and outs of it. If not, you should move on like a hamster on the wheel to some other threads. Just what makes you think the 'we' are running around looking for trading methodologies. No one is stopping you here; except I should remind you there are rules in FF; read it and make sure you don't get kicked out of this thread and/or forum.

Quoting longilo
Many thanks for your reply, and I will say am flattered, that the Grandmaster of median line methods is defending the Great tool.

Honestly, am disappointed, if after so many years of using a tool you cant
say that the research carried out by Greg is correct and that after so
many years of trading and teaching you have prove it in your trading.

why do so many experts hid behind money management?
why do they hid behind trading psychology and discipline?

what hope do newbies have using a tool that the expert in
that method earns their money from...
~*~You are only one trade away from humility~*~
  • #410
  • Jun 21, 2009 7:11pm Jun 21, 2009 7:11pm
I was gonna mentioned that Auxesis, I would like to call for the thread owner, JustCatalin, to do something about it.

Edit: Damn, totally forgotten about this feature, This guy is history for me...


Quoting auxesis
Rising Sun,

Tis best not to feed the trolls. The post is more of an attack than a request for additional information and is not worthy of the bandwidth to respond.

Just use the ignore feature.
~*~You are only one trade away from humility~*~
  • #411
  • Jun 21, 2009 7:34pm Jun 21, 2009 7:34pm
Quoting auxesis
I truly believe there's so much more that can be done with forks, but in reality the simple setups, allowing price to show itself, change of state, test and retest are best for simplicity and r:r.

Here's a link to another thread discussion on time/price that has my thoughts on forks and their representations..... this should label me as a median line heretic...

Have a great weekend.

http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...6&postcount=13
Auxesis...almost a mirror image as to where I'm headed with my tool, posted a pic of it some time back, perhpas a different site...don't remember. I couldn't figure out how to skew the fib lines so I used a bit different approach to get my time and grid lines. Have some of the interior lines working but it's tough to get all this to come together with the calculations, as I'm not a "real" programmer...every time I change or add somthing the code has to increase, which makes it easy for me to get lost in there...thanks for the comments and link

In total agreement on the smiplicity side of this tool but will still continue with my attempts to inject the extras into the tool.
Listen to the whispers.... You may learn something
  • #412
  • Jun 21, 2009 7:41pm Jun 21, 2009 7:41pm
Hi Scrutch:

IF you can spare a little of your busy schedule these days; please show me your chart on such matter again when you do have the time; I'm interested on looking at the geometry of what Auxesis is presenting just now. No rush though, my friend. I also agree on what Auxesis has mentioned about the simplicity in trading; but I just love market geometry and would like to 'tweak' around with it; just like I'm interested on your inner lines within the Andrew's lines. Gotta run, take care.

Have a good one
Jeff


Quoting Scrutch
Auxesis...almost a mirror image as to where I'm headed with my tool, posted a pic of it some time back, perhpas a different site...don't remember. I couldn't figure out how to skew the fib lines so I used a bit different approach to get my time and grid lines. Have some of the interior lines working but it's tough to get all this to come together with the calculations, as I'm not a "real" programmer...every time I change or add somthing the code has to increase, which makes it easy for me to get lost in there...thanks for the comments and link...
~*~You are only one trade away from humility~*~
  • #413
  • Jun 21, 2009 7:56pm Jun 21, 2009 7:56pm
Quoting auxesis
Rising Sun,

Tis best not to feed the trolls. The post is more of an attack than a request for additional information and is not worthy of the bandwidth to respond.

Just use the ignore feature.

I agree...LOL, just when I thought I had found solace in a forum where likeminded traders can exchange concepts, ideas and education out comes the disabled minds of those seeking the damn grail. Maybe its why I have restrained myself from these places....But, I am optimistic and yes we need to clean up the community here as this is a warning of whats to come, but it will require a group effort of those committed to real trading and sharing with one another to step up. But, since this thread is started by Catalin, I will leave it to him for ground rules.....Venting....
  • #414
  • Jun 21, 2009 7:57pm Jun 21, 2009 7:57pm
Quoting Scrutch
Auxesis...almost a mirror image as to where I'm headed with my tool, posted a pic of it some time back, perhpas a different site...don't remember. I couldn't figure out how to skew the fib lines so I used a bit different approach to get my time and grid lines. Have some of the interior lines working but it's tough to get all this to come together with the calculations, as I'm not a "real" programmer...every time I change or add somthing the code has to increase, which makes it easy for me to get lost in there...thanks for the comments and link...
Scrutch,

I feel for ya, and understand some of the problems associated with timing the forks, specially when it comes to dealing with weekends, your time axis, unlike your price axis has gaps.

I searched for the longest time trying to find the means to predict the market, thought it was necessary, be careful that your attempts do not blind your eyes with a predetermined directional bias and timing structure for price. It’s very easy to get a nice chart going expecting price to comply all the way and miss it, big time. So let price show that you both are on the same page before you ante up.

Regardless of one’s views on market dimensions, 2D, 3D, 4D? heck charts without time being taken into consideration, constant range bar and tic charts….. Forks work.

Regards
  • #415
  • Jun 21, 2009 8:49pm Jun 21, 2009 8:49pm
Quoting jharteam
Hi Scrutch:
IF you can spare a little of your busy schedule these days; please show me your chart on such matter again when you do have the time; I'm interested on looking at the geometry of what Auxesis is presenting just now. No rush though, my friend. I also agree on what Auxesis has mentioned about the simplicity in trading; but I just love market geometry and would like to 'tweak' around with it; just like I'm interested on your inner lines within the Andrew's lines. Gotta run, take care.
Have a good one
Jeff
Yeah, got a bit of time this evening...taking a few hours off to see if I can do anything with the Asian market, then back at it come early am.
Jeff, the black formation is the original one and the orange guy is a Catlin from the black guys info. The orange guy has separate trendlines, I haven't got the original formation to rotate yet so it stays as one formation...I'm thinking that that's not going to be the hardest problem but I could be wrong.

Quoting auxesis
Scrutch,
I feel for ya, and understand some of the problems associated with timing the forks, specially when it comes to dealing with weekends, your time axis, unlike your price axis has gaps.

I searched for the longest time trying to find the means to predict the market, thought it was necessary, be careful that your attempts do not blind your eyes with a predetermined directional bias and timing structure for price. It’s very easy to get a nice chart going expecting price to comply all the way and miss it, big time. So let price show that you...
Yeah, not trying to put together a 'holy grail' here, just like to see what the lines have to say for themselves. Was using a tic chart when I was trading the SnP index (mini) that was in close harmony with the Andrews Lines. Course it was based on a Gann number ...thanks for the thought on my eyesight. It's not my intention to try and blind myself...again just tryiing to get the lines to whisper to me from time to time, they do have a lot to say.
Time and Code: Sheeezzz, gota do the Julian thingy and combine it with bar counts and try not to fry your brain in the process...and your thoughts on the time having gaps is a very valid one. Makes it very difficult to keep it all in sync and if you change time frames on the chart it really gets out of hand. My gray matter needs a break so I'm going to let this little project soak for a while and go look for a setup and see if I can snag some pipets.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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Listen to the whispers.... You may learn something
  • #416
  • Jun 21, 2009 9:36pm Jun 21, 2009 9:36pm
Scrutch,

Nice looking chart.

My last study attempts were trying to find an origination point for the fork's handle between the 0 and 1 points, I had moved from linear into arcs ( this is needed for the time measure) and adjusting the orientation of the fork to match the right side of price's retest attempt...

Rotating the formation.... If you can ever get your hands around a median arc! Good luck in your research!!!!

a
  • #417
  • Jun 21, 2009 10:48pm Jun 21, 2009 10:48pm
Quoting auxesis
Scrutch,
Nice looking chart.

My last study attempts were trying to find an origination point for the fork's handle between the 0 and 1 points, I had moved from linear into arcs ( this is needed for the time measure) and adjusting the orientation of the fork to match the right side of price's retest attempt...

Rotating the formation.... If you can ever get your hands around a median arc! Good luck in your research!!!!

a
Sounds like we've been through much of the same research...my problem is the more I read Gann, Cowan, Elliot...yada, yada, the closer I come to going in a circle, well maybe it's an arc. If I do find a median arc I'm not sure that I'm going to want my hands on it, something like that is probably going to be fairly hot.
Thanks for the kind words...gotta run.
PnS...Glad to see this thread showing some life with some serious Andrews students participating! Hey, we got Tim dropping in from time to time, doesn't get much better than that. (Even though he's a low poster )
Listen to the whispers.... You may learn something
  • #418
  • Jun 21, 2009 10:52pm Jun 21, 2009 10:52pm
I do not know if this is the right way to draw the lines.

Thanks.
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AFTAB Time Will Tell & Price Will Show
  • #419
  • Jun 21, 2009 11:04pm Jun 21, 2009 11:04pm
Please let me know your thoughts.

Thanks.
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AFTAB Time Will Tell & Price Will Show
  • #420
  • Jun 22, 2009 2:17am Jun 22, 2009 2:17am
This is what my EUR/USD forks look like at this weeks opening. Trying to keep it simple but hopefully, effective.
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Stay calm, be brave, wait for the signs - Jasper Friendly Bear
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