Where do the big players trade? | Forex Factory

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Where do the big players trade?

  • #1
  • First Post: Jun 16, 2009 2:15pm Jun 16, 2009 2:15pm
I guess there is a limit that brokers don't like you to win more and therefore don't let you to trade with them anymore. However, there are big traders who trade hundreds of lots and make millions of dollars. Where do they have accounts? I think they are not trading with brokers who manipulate prices and do some other "tricks" to make your trading harder. Do they have accounts in some major banks, or how is it possible to trade that big?
  • #2
  • Jun 16, 2009 3:24pm Jun 16, 2009 3:24pm
Quoting fx-Junior
I guess there is a limit that brokers don't like you to win more and therefore don't let you to trade with them anymore. However, there are big traders who trade hundreds of lots and make millions of dollars. Where do they have accounts? I think they are not trading with brokers who manipulate prices and do some other "tricks" to make your trading harder. Do they have accounts in some major banks, or how is it possible to trade that big?
There are no brokers that do any "trick", manipulate prices or crappy things like those. Brokers are happy if you can trade with a regular profit, things like "stop hunting" "price manipulation" and other "tricks" happen only to newbies traders who don't know what they do, and of course the evil broker steal their money.

Stop this mentality now, and start to think with your own brain, do some study, research, look the charts, try different strategies, make experience, and take it seriously.
  • #3
  • Jun 16, 2009 3:41pm Jun 16, 2009 3:41pm
Quoting tunera
There are no brokers that do any "trick", manipulate prices or crappy things like those. Brokers are happy if you can trade with a regular profit, things like "stop hunting" "price manipulation" and other "tricks" happen only to newbies traders who don't know what they do, and of course the evil broker steal their money.

Stop this mentality now, and start to think with your own brain, do some study, research, look the charts, try different strategies, make experience, and take it seriously.
I know that very few brokers cheat. I have a winning strategy and I have traded live 9 months and have not faced any problems with my broker. So that's it. That was not my question, however.
  • #4
  • Jun 16, 2009 5:05pm Jun 16, 2009 5:05pm
Dukascopy, Interactive Brokers are a couple of good ones.

MB Trading is OK, but expensive for high volume traders.
  • #5
  • Jun 16, 2009 6:38pm Jun 16, 2009 6:38pm
Losers hate their broker... winners like their broker.... if people lose money its impossible for it to be their own fault .. no way ! ..... let me look for a " GOOD" broker !
  • #6
  • Jun 16, 2009 10:02pm Jun 16, 2009 10:02pm
Quoting tunera
There are no brokers that do any "trick", manipulate prices or crappy things like those. Brokers are happy if you can trade with a regular profit, things like "stop hunting" "price manipulation" and other "tricks" happen only to newbies traders who don't know what they do, and of course the evil broker steal their money.

Stop this mentality now, and start to think with your own brain, do some study, research, look the charts, try different strategies, make experience, and take it seriously.
Nonsense. Forex is a manipulated market. If you trade the daily or weekly charts you may not notice it but trade the shorter timeframes and you will have a different experience. Nothing to do with newbies. Simply more often than not your broker is on the other side of your trade. So do you think they will be happy with regular profit makers taking money from them? If everyone made a profit the broker would go broke because they don't hedge a large proportion of their trades instead keeping them in house and gaining from traders losses. Brokers strive because the majority of traders lose.
  • #7
  • Jun 17, 2009 4:24am Jun 17, 2009 4:24am
I hafta agree with Pipstar ....... well said
  • #8
  • Jun 17, 2009 4:42am Jun 17, 2009 4:42am
Quoting PipStar
Nonsense. Forex is a manipulated market. If you trade the daily or weekly charts you may not notice it but trade the shorter timeframes and you will have a different experience. Nothing to do with newbies. Simply more often than not your broker is on the other side of your trade. So do you think they will be happy with regular profit makers taking money from them? If everyone made a profit the broker would go broke because they don't hedge a large proportion of their trades instead keeping them in house and gaining from traders losses. Brokers strive...
Exactly why you should trade with an ECN.
  • #9
  • Jun 17, 2009 6:23am Jun 17, 2009 6:23am
Quoting PipStar
Nonsense. Forex is a manipulated market. If you trade the daily or weekly charts you may not notice it but trade the shorter timeframes and you will have a different experience. Nothing to do with newbies. Simply more often than not your broker is on the other side of your trade. So do you think they will be happy with regular profit makers taking money from them? If everyone made a profit the broker would go broke because they don't hedge a large proportion of their trades instead keeping them in house and gaining from traders losses. Brokers strive...
probably most, but not all traders lose when trading at shorter TF. I personally trade with two MM (Oanda and IBFX), I'm making money each month and still very happy with them.

Traders who got screw probably trade at 5 min TF with 10pips SL.
  • #10
  • Edited 3:32am Jun 18, 2009 3:09am | Edited 3:32am
Quoting PipStar
Nonsense. Forex is a manipulated market. If you trade the daily or weekly charts you may not notice it but trade the shorter timeframes and you will have a different experience. Nothing to do with newbies. Simply more often than not your broker is on the other side of your trade. So do you think they will be happy with regular profit makers taking money from them? If everyone made a profit the broker would go broke because they don't hedge a large proportion of their trades instead keeping them in house and gaining from traders losses. Brokers strive...

On IBFX charts, I noticed different values were given for different time frames. The 4 hour chart was 7 pips higher at extreme low than the 15 minute chart.

I do not how that happened. Because in MT4 I'm under the impression that charts are calculated of the same data. I had not imported any data. The only reason I found it was because when setting trend lines I always go down to the 5 minute chart, to get accurate lines no matter which time frame I'm on...

However, successful traders don't have S/L that are within any stop hunting distance. Stop hunting is really more that a SELLER wants to BUY your currency at the price you are willing to SELL.

So yes it occurs but definitely not out of malicious intent, but out of where demand meets supply.

The broker is only on the other side of the trade, if you are trading the retail market maker brokers, but not with ECN. In addition, they also only on the other end if there is no trader that can be there instead.

If you think price manipulation has occurred check the quotes of a number of good ECN brokers. Because if the spreads of a retail market maker are below the quotes offered by all the ECN brokers by more than the said spread, then price manipulation has possibly occurred.

To determine whether a broker is ECN or not, (cause some claim that they are) look in their customer agreement contract and see if they say something along the lines, that there is a possible "conflict of interest", because the broker can often be the alternative party when you are the losing party (there lies the conflict of interest).

Those that say "that it is nonsense", often know this, but also know that the more losing traders there are in a brokerage, the greater the likelihood that the profitable traders trades will be fulfilled. or they understand how to read market movement, but just don't understand how the actual trade works, even though they are profitable

Because basic trade mechanics are for a losing trader, is they are:
selling, when the profitable are buying, OR (who is the loser selling to? The profitable buyer)
buying, when the profitable are selling. (who is the loser buying from? The profitable seller)

Guess what brokerages are profitable, which is why it is important that a broker is not the counter party to a trade. Cause that means that the brokers are buying when the loser is selling and selling when the loser is buying. Guess what they can also see your trades.
  • #11
  • Jun 18, 2009 12:08pm Jun 18, 2009 12:08pm
Quoting steve930
Exactly why you should trade with an ECN.

ECN?????HAHAHAHA

Come on , do you honestly think that there is no counter party involved??? If your broker does not take the other side, then his clearing house will, and they will try to screw you over.
  • #12
  • Jun 18, 2009 12:44pm Jun 18, 2009 12:44pm
there are actually a good few ecns but with all trading, it depends on your style of trading. People gravitate towards mt4 brokers due to the charting facilities and as such would do better as longer term trend traders. If however you trading intraday volatility and say snb comes out to say that they will initiate strong easing policies to limit franc appreaciation against the euro, then I would only want to trade on an ecn. If you're really that bothered by tricks counterparties can pull, trade fx futures, if you dont like the limited instruments and fixed contract size then you might as well give up on trading. You think equity traders complain when a stock they're long of gets halted so that they can announce they are filing for bankruptcy? No, they deal with it because that's part of trading equities. IF you dont like it then trading is not for you.
  • #13
  • Jun 18, 2009 2:28pm Jun 18, 2009 2:28pm
well, brokers DO cheat, everyone who trades can experience it. Im with OANDA now, and no problems so far, but i know that when you become consistent and trade large with them, they will close your account and ask you to leave. Maybe a truly ECN broker dont do that, but where we can find one?
  • #14
  • Jun 18, 2009 2:34pm Jun 18, 2009 2:34pm
Quoting mofuniverse
Losers hate their broker... winners like their broker.... if people lose money its impossible for it to be their own fault .. no way ! ..... let me look for a " GOOD" broker !
Lets see-why would I freeze my platform so I might lose my trade-why would I slip myself 20 pips on entry price so I spend more time in RED-why would I be okay with my withdrawals being overly delayed- why would a create a "mystery spike" and Stop my trade out? I know why-cause I am thief !
FF = Forex Faggots
  • #15
  • Jun 18, 2009 2:43pm Jun 18, 2009 2:43pm
Quoting mike999
ECN?????HAHAHAHA

Come on , do you honestly think that there is no counter party involved??? If your broker does not take the other side, then his clearing house will, and they will try to screw you over.
That's hardly true. I can't stand it when people don't do their research.
  • #16
  • Jun 18, 2009 2:49pm Jun 18, 2009 2:49pm
Quoting 8fingers
Lets see-why would I freeze my platform so I might lose my trade-why would I slip myself 20 pips on entry price so I spend more time in RED-why would I be okay with my withdrawals being overly delayed- why would a create a "mystery spike" and Stop my trade out? I know why-cause I am thief !
I can vouch for that as far as price gaps go...on a M15 chart at PFG on the USD/CAD! why?! i don't know and i don't care! left them quickly!

now,, i don't see why they don't centralize forex like th NYSE on a huge super computer with four location for all 4 major opening...London,new York, Australia and Tokyo. what, we all as countries can't agree or are we all just too greedy!? i know it can be done they just don't want to. bastards!
  • #17
  • Jun 19, 2009 5:26am Jun 19, 2009 5:26am
Quoting mike999
ECN?????HAHAHAHA

Come on , do you honestly think that there is no counter party involved??? If your broker does not take the other side, then his clearing house will, and they will try to screw you over.
I didn't say no counter party, but I implied no counter party that owns the feed as well. There has to be a counter party otherwise prices would not move and trades would not be completed.

A clearing houses are third party to people who are in charge of the money. A genuine ECN only feeds data, and is paid by commission only for that feed. In other words they have NO NEED for a clearing house because they are not a part of the trade.

The way you determine whether it is ECN or not is look at the customer agreement if it says something like "that there is a possible conflict of interest", then it is not ECN. You will find that most that claim ECN are actually not ECN. Why? because there is no legal definition of ECN?

With retail market bandits, the broker can often be the alternative party when you are the losing party (there lies the conflict of interest). They are profitting by hedging your loss. Because of this hedging though, it has allowed retail market bandits to have leverages of 500:1. This will not happen with ECN. Most ECN would be lucky to give 100:1.

In addition to this, retail market bandits widen spreads to get their "commission". Problem is that wider spreads means reduction in the likelihood of a trade being successful, simply because the quotes have to travel that little bit further for the trade to be completed. They know that it reduces the likelihood of trade success, but they would never tell you that, because that is part of their in house advantage.
  • #18
  • Jun 19, 2009 5:33am Jun 19, 2009 5:33am
Quoting tiagor33
well, brokers DO cheat, everyone who trades can experience it. Im with OANDA now, and no problems so far, but i know that when you become consistent and trade large with them, they will close your account and ask you to leave. Maybe a truly ECN broker dont do that, but where we can find one?
Under the impression that MBTrading and http://www.nordmarkets.com/ are 2 different ECN. They both have MT4 as well.
  • #19
  • Jun 30, 2009 10:44am Jun 30, 2009 10:44am
Dont know why ...BUT
NORDmarkets is one of these ECN's about which, many ,least talk about?
Was really wondering what can be the reason?

Neither found negative nor positive feedback about this ECN

anybody
100 Fold Challenge->Interested? ->https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/32152
  • #20
  • Jun 21, 2010 5:19am Jun 21, 2010 5:19am
Quoting tunera
There are no brokers that do any "trick", manipulate prices or crappy things like those. Brokers are happy if you can trade with a regular profit, things like "stop hunting" "price manipulation" and other "tricks" happen only to newbies traders who don't know what they do, and of course the evil broker steal their money.

Stop this mentality now, and start to think with your own brain, do some study, research, look the charts, try different strategies, make experience, and take it seriously.
sorry my friend, but "Stop hunting" as you put it, is a market reality, if you were a market maker and there was thousands of stops to be hit and millions to be made hunting for stops, you would too. You should aim to place your stops away from levels where the weak money do. but this technique is a valid big money move and a regular and profitable one.
Limitation is a creation of the mind
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