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How do you know all the positions held by big players?

  • Post #1
  • Quote
  • First Post: Jan 8, 2008 10:33pm Jan 8, 2008 10:33pm
Every time I read the news like this, I wonder how retail traiders like me can get an access to a real-time order book which tells all the positions held by big players, like banks and hedge funds. How do they know even the name of a bank waiting for their orders to be executed? Are there any brokers that provide their individual customers with such services?

"Macro news accounts and system buyers in, and one point when a decent sized sell order came in, one of the large Australian banks was sitting on the bid at 0.9795, and sopped up all of the supply..."

http://www.forexfactory.com/images/buttons/quote.gif

That is a very good question. I'd like to know the answer myself.


Stock markets have that but big players there often times confuse the market by "presenting" a big sale, when they are really buying through third parties... so you can't really track them until they release their report "after the fact"
You don't.
Take a report.
ManFX level 2 has that I think.
Quoting naminori
Every time I read the news like this, I wonder how retail traiders like me can get an access to a real-time order book which tells all the positions held by big players, like banks and hedge funds. How do they know even the name of a bank waiting for their orders to be executed? Are there any brokers that provide their individual customers with such services?

"Macro news accounts and system buyers in, and one point when a decent sized sell order came in, one of the large Australian banks was sitting on the bid at 0.9795, and sopped up all of the supply..."

http://www.forexfactory.com/images/buttons/quote.gif

I think if you are an ECN or a broker that taps directly into the banks then you would be able to see that information, at the same time I am sure they have agreements with the banks not to disclose any of that information. (who the banks are and what they do...)
There are a few ways but one that I use is by using the MT4 COT Indicator. Use the search feature on this forum and you will find at least two recent discussions on this indicator. This is an indicator that has weekly updates.

If your interested in this indicator, send me a PM and I will send you the link.

Good Luck making those pips.

Also, be careful about double posting on the forum.
The fact that there is no central exchange in the forex makes it rather impossible to see all the liquidity. Yes, if you have level 2 from your friendly neighbourhood ECN you can get a glimpse, which can be useful, but you will never get concrete numbers like you do in an exchange traded market.

In fact, the best thing out there right now, as far as I know, is the Commitment of Traders (COT) report, which also comes with its own set of problems, not the least of which is that it lags.

Also, Oanda publishes some useful information as pertains to this.

1. Open Orders
2. Open Positions

Here are some thoughts on the structure of the FX market (a bit outdated, but solid).

Hope that helps, and thanks to FTI for the Fed link.
A Reuters feed will show you which banks are sitting on the bid or ask, but you of course won't be given volume levels or positions.

As far as knowing big player positions, that is known by no one other than banks (and even then, the banks only know the positions of their own clients). There's no master book which shows all global institutional positions. It's not even feasible really, there are hundreds if not thousands of banks in the FX world. That's why the COT data from the CME comes in handy, it's the only clue.
Quoting Trader KGB
A Reuters feed will show you which banks are sitting on the bid or ask, but you of course won't be given volume levels or positions.
As a former employee of Reuters I can tell you the info you can get from Reuters still will not help you know where price is being held at with different banks... You can actually become a "Big Boy" and communicate with the banks in a Relay messaging service that Reuters offers and you can Buy and sell to other banks but unless you have about 5 million in tradable currency then you are not invited. you need to just try like the rest of us and make what you can off of the moves you see.

I have spent time with bank traders and most of them don't know on a day to day basis what they are going to buy/sell until the market gives then a price that fits thier criteria. the have concrete #'s they look at and when price hits it they either buy or sell but its not as if they control the entire market... One other feature to look at is the Option/Future Forex you can find out where a Future contract is sitting and the big wigs will stick close to that price till it expires then its off to the races.... kind of double dipping if you will....

as mentioned in other posts learn to read the COT

I trade a long term stratagy with the COT as a helpful indicator and usually it keeps me in profits over time.

Hope this helps you out.
M4X............ Hedging My Way To Profits!
Thanks you all for the inputs, but I have heard before that institutional traders are able to see where all the retail traders' orders are placed, which they say can be the basis for their stop loss hunting. Why can't we see their positions, while they can see our positions if that was true? Although we can not move the market like they do, at least we could be better prepared for the next price move if we were able to know their positions beforehand.
Quoting naminori
Thanks you all for the inputs, but I have heard before that institutional traders are able to see where all the retail traders' orders are placed, which they say can be the basis for their stop loss hunting. Why can't we see their positions, while they can see our positions if that was true? Although we can not move the market like they do, at least we could be better prepared for the next price move if we were able to know their positions beforehand.
If you have time my friend, read about the COT... I like this tool!

Have a great trading day!
Yeah, I agree. I think the COT is the most useful. I wouldn't use it as an indicator by itself, although I'm sure some people do.

These guys compile and chart the COT data daily. They even do it by pair:

http://www.pfxglobal.com/index.php?o...785&Itemid=191
Quoting forexfenom
These guys compile and chart the COT data daily.
COT is only published weekly, Friday after the US market close.
Quoting WHTenn
There are a few ways but one that I use is by using the MT4 COT Indicator. Use the search feature on this forum and you will find at least two recent discussions on this indicator. This is an indicator that has weekly updates.

If your interested in this indicator, send me a PM and I will send you the link.

Good Luck making those pips.

Also, be careful about double posting on the forum.
MAY I HAVE THAT LINK FOR THE COT INDICATOR TOO
THANKS
Quoting alishus
MAY I HAVE THAT LINK FOR THE COT INDICATOR TOO
THANKS
Google is your friend

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...rs&btnG=Search

Top 2 links:

http://www.cftc.gov/marketreports/co...ders/index.htm

http://www.commitmentoftraders.com/
Secrecy is the badge of fraud. -- — Sir John Chadwick
guys how about this?

http://www.fxstreet.com/analysis/trading-positions/
Quoting fxjapaneseye
guys how about this? http://www.fxstreet.com/analysis/trading-positions/
damn son, why bump a 7 year old thread ?
i lose money for a living
Quoting naminori
Thanks you all for the inputs, but I have heard before that institutional traders are able to see where all the retail traders' orders are placed, which they say can be the basis for their stop loss hunting. Why can't we see their positions, while they can see our positions if that was true? Although we can not move the market like they do, at least we could be better prepared for the next price move if we were able to know their positions beforehand.
They can't see your position any more than you can see theirs. Only your broker knows your orders, and the market maker model brokers can act like institutional traders, and take advantage by actually seeing your position and trading against it. Of course this would only be for people that have an easy stop loss order to hunt. Again this is only with market maker model brokers. Now in general, when people talk about them stop hunting, it simply means that big money just knows from experience where a lot of novice traders tend to put their stop orders and have enough capital to move the market down (or up if short) just enough and get all those orders filled. All those orders that are too close to support or resistance will be filled and the price will continue dropping (or rising if short) until the next batch of orders completely overwhelm their position. At that point they should be in profit and will then close their position, creating a pullback or trend change. Essentially causing the same thing to happen in the other direction now. It's like an elephant getting into and out of a tub of water. The splash will be huge in either case. So keep in mind this can happen whether they are taking profits or taking the opposite direction that you are. If more big money decides to implement a me too strategy, this then becomes a trend and price will travel even further before they take profits. The best strategy is to be on the side that has the most institutional players in the long term, but yes some will force the market in the other direction temporarily by throwing their big money around.
Quoting naminori
Every time I read the news like this, I wonder how retail traiders like me can get an access to a real-time order book which tells all the positions held by big players, like banks and hedge funds. How do they know even the name of a bank waiting for their orders to be executed? Are there any brokers that provide their individual customers with such services? "Macro news accounts and system buyers in, and one point when a decent sized sell order came in, one of the large Australian banks was...
Look at the chart - it tells you all you need to know and is the only accurate view of what is really happening in the market. Plus institutions are only doing exactly what we as retail traders should also be doing. And that is, looking for the best trades with lowest risk and highest reward. They have no more information that you or I do. Yes, they have a lot more money, but that doesn't necessarily make it any easier for them.
Here I go bumping 11 year old thread.

This information is available to institutions OR (institution imitators).

https://www.quandl.com/databases/CLSRV/data

CLS processes 1.5 Trillion daily FX volume out 5 Trillion. I have taken look at the sample data and it is valuable if you know how to trade.

IF anyone has access to this information I am willing the contribute to the monthly subscription fee, better yet we can get together and subscribe.

Most of the banks has access to that info worldwide and they are shareholders in this CLS-Group. https://www.cls-group.com/about-us/shareholders/

AND

We are trying to figure out TMAs, MACDs, S/R all that mombo jombo.

Let's come together and subscribe to this data.
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