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Where can I learn more about Price Action like those in James16 charts? 9 replies

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james16 Chart Thread

  • #32,641
  • Jun 8, 2009 4:49am Jun 8, 2009 4:49am
Marco,
I "remember" you... lol (just kidding)

with that kind of pickiness/discretion & patience, no doubt u traded well.
if i may, here are some of my thoughts to achieve your goal:
--u can look at more currency pairs or markets (stocks, futures) using j16 method.
--continue to trade with similar patience & with discretion, & (as your account grows) slowly increase the positions (lots) per trade. try different exit strategies so as to maximize profits (while continuously being aware of risk/minimizing risk). for example, u usually trade 3 lots & exit in 3 ways (1lot each for each profit targets), try 5 lots & A. exit with 1lot, then 2 lots, then another 2 lots (letting the last 2 lots run to the moon). or 5 lot entry, B. exiting 1lot, then 1 more lot, then 3 lots (run to the moon)
--once well-experienced with Daily & weekly chart trading, u can trade on H1 & H4. they will give u more trades. at the same time, u can maintain a 1-2% risk.

I believe Jduester & TiaForex have further inputs regarding this, so try & PM them.

hope this somehow helps.
  • #32,642
  • Jun 8, 2009 4:55am Jun 8, 2009 4:55am
Quoting krue
what is your win/loss rate? if the rate is higher than 70%, I may try to risk 10%. sorry to say this. but, I think 2-3% is for beginner. if one could manage 70% above hit rate, why don't try 10-15% risk factor? Larry Williams is my ideal, he and his daughter used 20% risk rate to win their championship. the question is how reliable you could manage 70% above win rate.
Hmm well over the last few month I had a winning-rate of almost 90%, but we're talking about 9 total trades.

Well to win a championship, I'd be happy with 20% risk, too. Who cares, you can't win that kind of thing if you don't bet the house. You either win it or go broke, that's how those championship-things work...

Trading money you had to save up for years is a different story. Here 20% hurt a lot. And it takes a lot to get out of just 25% drawdown...and seriously if you have 3 losers in a row, which is statistically very possible and risk 10% you're down 30%...now do you have the guts to take the next trade again with a 10% risk...jesus I don't want to get into that kind of situation again. No way.
  • #32,643
  • Jun 8, 2009 4:55am Jun 8, 2009 4:55am
Quoting jarroo
Anyone take the Euro BEOB on the Daily?
Looks like my 1st target was a bull's eye to say the least.
Attached Image
Indicators show the past. Price Action "Indicates" the future.
  • #32,644
  • Edited 5:17am Jun 8, 2009 4:58am | Edited 5:17am
Quote
what is your win/loss rate? if the rate is higher than 70%, I may try to risk 10%. sorry to say this. but, I think 2-3% is for beginner. if one could manage 70% above hit rate, why don't try 10-15% risk factor? Larry Williams is my ideal, he and his daughter used 20% risk rate to win their championship. the question is how reliable you could manage 70% above win rate.
krue,
10% risk? i think that's dangerous. if u indeed believe in yourself that much, why not go for 50-90% risk?

saying "I think 2-3% is for beginner" is also false. professionals, however profitable, i believe still use 1-3% risk.
we can't always depend on luck, as sometimes the market does something unpredictable.

u can always refer to this as a reminder from jarroo:
Novice traders continually monitor, analyze and alter their trades to maximize their profits.
Professional traders continually monitor, analyze and alter their trades to reduce/minimize their risk and reduce losses.
  • #32,645
  • Jun 8, 2009 5:04am Jun 8, 2009 5:04am
Quote
one very small but I'd consider it more like a breakeven-trade with some slippage
like it!!


Hi Marco,great post.
The way I see it, there is a few different “camps” and I think the situation your in will change the approach you might take. Like you said, if the account is 500,000 those few trades a month are enough, but of course if the account is 5000 you are gonna have to get another job!
Some people, mike,jarroo etc, like to let the trade run(or at least some portion of it) and generate great R:R this way.Others,raczekfx etc, increase there R:R by finding ways to reduce stop sizes.(not risk) this gives a greater pip value and generates greater R:R from smaller runs.
Also as time goes by and a person becomes more experienced with this methodology, he might want to venture to shorter TFs (4h , or even 1 h,) to look for entries. But generally this leads to its own similar problems and is a much more difficult environment to work in.
And, dare I say it?! There is more than one way to skin a cat! Once a person has absorbed this type of PA trading and gains a little experience and confidence it gives a good foundation to start looking at other possibilities. Remember this thread not only teaches us a method it shows us how to be good traders and so using these skills one could apply them to other ideas which may generate reliable trades
A general rule of thumb I think most traders use is NOT to enter a trade which doesn’t at least offer the possibility of a 2:1 return on risk.
You results have been great so far so an increase in the % risked might be an option for you. I personally think 5% is MASSIVE!! Hehe ,but that’s just me
Hope this helps
jon
PATIENCE... DISCIPLINE
  • #32,646
  • Jun 8, 2009 5:09am Jun 8, 2009 5:09am
  •  MPP
  • Joined Jun 2007 | Status: Be yourself, everyone else is taken | 2,734 Posts
Quoting Marco
Hmm well over the last few month I had a winning-rate of almost 90%, but we're talking about 9 total trades.

Well to win a championship, I'd be happy with 20% risk, too. Who cares, you can't win that kind of thing if you don't bet the house. You either win it or go broke, that's how those championship-things work...

Trading money you had to save up for years is a different story. Here 20% hurt a lot. And it takes a lot to get out of just 25% drawdown...and seriously if you have 3 losers in a row, which is statistically very possible and risk...
go back and review thoughs 9 trades - now look at them using your new SL method - already your lot size is bigger based on the same risk 2% risk over 30pips provides a bigger position than 2% over 100pips risk, therfore your final resulst will be affect - have a look at it

10%/20% go for it, the rest of us need someones money to fill our accounts - just kidding think long and hard about the option

i belive Jim has said time and again, add to you account from your trading and your own normal income over time you will find the right balance and achieve your goals. stick to it.

MPP
  • #32,647
  • Jun 8, 2009 5:09am Jun 8, 2009 5:09am
Gotta go gang. Great session.

I'm sure Jim and Mike would be proud.

Later,

Jim
Indicators show the past. Price Action "Indicates" the future.
  • #32,648
  • Jun 8, 2009 5:13am Jun 8, 2009 5:13am
Quoting jarroo
Looks like my 1st target was a bull's eye to say the least.
hehe i was thinking that earlier!!

One thing to bare in mind...
one loss at 20% means that you then have to make 25% to get to BE!!
a few initial loosers and your fighting an uphill struggle from then on.

jon
PATIENCE... DISCIPLINE
  • #32,649
  • Jun 8, 2009 5:17am Jun 8, 2009 5:17am
Quoting jarroo
Looks like my 1st target was a bull's eye to say the least.
Ur SL @ BE now?? nice one..
  • #32,650
  • Jun 8, 2009 5:19am Jun 8, 2009 5:19am
  •  krue
  • | Joined Mar 2008 | Status: finger scares cat, power of illusio | 410 Posts
90% win rate ! good for you. if this is the case, split your cash by two, one for conservative acc, the other you may risk 15% to accumulate till the amount which you will feel comfortable to trade with in your current style. god is fair, there is always a risk/reward trade off. or, you earn good salary using your skill trading for big fund.

Quoting Marco
Hmm well over the last few month I had a winning-rate of almost 90%, but we're talking about 9 total trades.

Well to win a championship, I'd be happy with 20% risk, too. Who cares, you can't win that kind of thing if you don't bet the house. You either win it or go broke, that's how those championship-things work...

Trading money you had to save up for years is a different story. Here 20% hurt a lot. And it takes a lot to get out of just 25% drawdown...and seriously if you have 3 losers in a row, which is statistically very possible and risk...
  • #32,651
  • Jun 8, 2009 5:21am Jun 8, 2009 5:21am
Quote
Gotta go gang. Great session.

jarroo,
early bird, early exit. Awesome.
  • #32,652
  • Jun 8, 2009 5:29am Jun 8, 2009 5:29am
Just went short eurgbp: hope it works.
TP 86.20
Quickly moving to BE if 86.95 is hit.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: eurgbp_d.gif Size: 26 KB
Trading: the skill of avoiding trades
  • #32,653
  • Jun 8, 2009 5:38am Jun 8, 2009 5:38am
  •  krue
  • | Joined Mar 2008 | Status: finger scares cat, power of illusio | 410 Posts
hey, I knew people hate what I was saying, 10% risk is no different than suicide. true

now, the question is how one could accumulate enough of fund to trade comfortablely with jim's style alike, but, start from small money. as I said, god is fair, there is always risk/reward trade off. if one couldn't risk enough at the beginning, how to build up his/her account to a size which could render him/her comfort to live by? trading is a tournement, if one doesn't have the determination to participate in a championship, then, spiritually, he is lack something to be successful in this game. one has to fight, though survive is the first priority. if one could manage 90% win rate, what to be afraid? 90% win rate, my dream. thanks god, I will be there.

regarding to 10-15% risk rate, I can not remember where I read, is the optimal range of MM. so, I won't go for 50%. but, I knew Richard Dennis did 50%, if I am not wrong.

Sorry guys, I knew what I am saying is sort of detrimental to most of the styles here, but, I think this is one of the possibilities. I will not say this again.me, shut up now


Quoting supremeChaos
krue,
10% risk? i think that's dangerous. if u indeed believe in yourself that much, why not go for 50-90% risk?

saying "I think 2-3% is for beginner" is also false. professionals, however profitable, i believe still use 1-3% risk.
we can't always depend on luck, as sometimes the market does something unpredictable.

u can always refer to this as a reminder from jarroo:
[b]Novice traders continually monitor, analyze and alter their trades to maximize...
  • #32,654
  • Jun 8, 2009 5:52am Jun 8, 2009 5:52am
Quoting krue
hey, I knew people hate what I was saying, 10% risk is no different than suicide. true

now, the question is how one could accumulate enough of fund to trade comfortablely with jim's style alike, but, start from small money. as I said, god is fair, there is always risk/reward trade off. if one couldn't risk enough at the beginning, how to build up his/her account to a size which could render him/her comfort to live by? trading is a tournement, if one doesn't have the determination to participate in a championship, then, spiritually, he is lack...
hi krue, this game can be very frustrating,and building a decent sized acc. will be a long road for most of us, but looking for short cuts is a dangerous game to play imho
Quote
if one could manage 90% win rate, what to be afraid?
10,000 acc.....
20% risk . one loss
acc = 25% to get to original sum
(acc. = 8000)
one more loss( is this so rare it can be ommitted from the trading plan/approach?)
acc. - 1600=6400
acc. now needs 64% to get to the original sum!!
one more loss...( is this so rare also??)
acc. -1280 = 5120
acc now has to almost double to get to BE!!
you now need 5 consecutive winners to cover 3 loosers
thats just 3 loosing trades. even the best get that!
jon
PATIENCE... DISCIPLINE
  • #32,655
  • Edited 6:07am Jun 8, 2009 5:55am | Edited 6:07am
Quoting g_j_hook@yah
hi krue, this game can be very frustrating,and building a decent sized acc. will be a long road for most of us, but looking for short cuts is a dangerous game to play imho
10,000 acc.....
20% risk . one loss
acc = 25% to get to original sum
(acc. = 8000)
one more loss( is this so rare it can be ommitted from the trading plan/approach?)
acc. - 1600=6400
acc. now needs 64% to get to the original sum!!
one more loss...( is this so rare also??)
acc. -1280 = 5120
acc now has to almost double to get to BE!!
thats just 3 loosing trades. even the best...
90% win rate is devil in disguise if you're risking 20%...

Good points Jon.
I believe . . .
  • #32,656
  • Jun 8, 2009 5:58am Jun 8, 2009 5:58am
Quoting supremeChaos
Marco,
I "remember" you... lol (just kidding)

with that kind of pickiness/discretion & patience, no doubt u traded well.
if i may, here are some of my thoughts to achieve your goal:
--u can look at more currency pairs or markets (stocks, futures) using j16 method.
--continue to trade with similar patience & with discretion, & (as your account grows) slowly increase the positions (lots) per trade. try different exit strategies so as to maximize profits (while continuously being aware of risk/minimizing...
You've definitely worked hard on those variegated posts Chaos. lol!
I believe . . .
  • #32,657
  • Jun 8, 2009 6:00am Jun 8, 2009 6:00am
krue,
i said it's dangerous. this was just a heads up, a reminder for u & other readers. we have to be mindful that not only u & I are reading in this thread/forum.
& i did not say & never said "i hate it/that kind of risk".


Quote
now, the question is how one could accumulate enough of fund to trade comfortablely with jim's style alike, but, start from small money...............how to build up his/her account to a size which could render him/her comfort to live by?

I have no means of accumulation, & YET i am trading Sir james16's style. u'd definitely be shocked if u will learn how small my live account is. Like i always say/warn, this is not the ideal way to go (trading a small account).

90-95% of traders are losers. it doesn't mean u have to take a lot more risk than needed just to be part of the 1-5% consistently profitable.
Sometimes, slow is fast.
  • #32,658
  • Jun 8, 2009 6:07am Jun 8, 2009 6:07am
Quote
You've definitely worked hard on those variegated posts Chaos. lol!

ghous,
LOL....
variegated? very unfamiliar term. are u taking up botany or something? lol
i believe it (un-variegation) took me more time &effort than learning Trading Patience.
  • #32,659
  • Jun 8, 2009 6:09am Jun 8, 2009 6:09am
the best risk level is what ever % you can risk on a trade, turn off your computer and go have a sleep for 8 hours... for me thats 1.5-2%... could anyone here really be comfortable with 10-20%? I'd be unable to function if I lost that amount
Grabbing the bull by the horns!
  • #32,660
  • Jun 8, 2009 6:10am Jun 8, 2009 6:10am
Quoting supremeChaos
ghous,
LOL....
variegated? very unfamiliar term. are u taking up botany or something? lol
i believe it (un-variegation) took me more time &effort than learning Trading Patience.
You've got to be a genius or something then...

I remember it wasn't too hard logging on to dictionary.com to fathom Bemac's posts...

I believe . . .
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