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We all need pivots to win..yes or not? 13 replies

The System (Irony included) 1,175 replies

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The System II (Yes with irony)

  • #2,301
  • Jun 2, 2009 2:12am Jun 2, 2009 2:12am
looks like a good swing is developing on e/u at the start of the london open
  • #2,302
  • Jun 2, 2009 2:45am Jun 2, 2009 2:45am
Hello! I think a new SELL opportunity is developing. My sell order at 1.4099
  • #2,303
  • Jun 2, 2009 2:57am Jun 2, 2009 2:57am
Quoting dim4ik42
Hello! I think a new SELL opportunity is developing. My sell order at 1.4099
I agree! Got a sell stop right there too.. as long as the pullback stops soon
  • #2,304
  • Jun 2, 2009 3:08am Jun 2, 2009 3:08am
not a singel response to post 2296... why do i even bother.

good trading to all.
  • #2,305
  • Jun 2, 2009 3:17am Jun 2, 2009 3:17am
Quoting fxachilies
not a singel response to post 2296... why do i even bother.

good trading to all.
post 2297 was a response to 2296. I was saying that maybe we could use the tight stops like in chart two, but use a trailing stop to take profits.

For instance... a sell order is triggered with a very tight stop and it moves to 10 pip profit. Move sl up to zero and put a 15/25 pip trailing stop. So now we have no risk and an opportunity for a runner.

Of course more often than not, the sl will be hit right after making the trade, however we could always get back in the trade if the market returns to the original spot of entry.
  • #2,306
  • Jun 2, 2009 3:20am Jun 2, 2009 3:20am
Hi all,
I have just finished reading this thread once and starting over again and at the same time have started live trading. This is my first post here.

I want to say thanks first of all to feb for sharing his knowledge and express my admiration for his wisdom. Each and every post i read from feb is pure wisdom. I hope that you are well and i also hope i will meet you someday.

The reason for my first post is fxachilles

I am not sure why nobody replied - i am still struggling with exits as well - but if you would not have kept posting here, there would be no thread, there would be no fine tuning, no experimentation, nothing. I am most grateful for your countless posts and generous help

Please don't feel offended for the lack of response to your previous posts. Most of us are still in the fog
  • #2,307
  • Jun 2, 2009 3:23am Jun 2, 2009 3:23am
Quoting fxachilies
not a singel response to post 2296... why do i even bother.

good trading to all.
hey fx still re reading the thread but my thoughts r i would take the small profits on the first chart as u were probably about 15 pips ish in prifit then it turned against u about 35 pips ish , i dont hink i could let it go against me that far.
just my thoughts
andrew
Survive & Preserve
  • #2,308
  • Jun 2, 2009 3:32am Jun 2, 2009 3:32am
Regarding exits. This is a trade i took this morning at frankfurt open. I closed it at -12. I could have closed it at breakeven, i could have taken 10 pips profit, i could have placed a sl at pullback and closed at almost 20 pips and i was very tempted to close at the break of v shaped formation (fractal?). There are many flavours and i am still experimenting.

It all depends on what feels right to each one and more importantly on what brings in the dough more often than not. Looking at fxachilles exits i would say taking small profits would work better, but i don't have a big enough sample of trades to be certain about it.

I am talking about the trade at the break of lower red line.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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  • #2,309
  • Jun 2, 2009 3:39am Jun 2, 2009 3:39am
fxachilles, a question: right now there is a opportunity to go long, but price is marked by indecision. although the pullback is not deep, it is ranging. would you still take the break of the swing, or would you wait for a more pronounced swing?
  • #2,310
  • Jun 2, 2009 3:49am Jun 2, 2009 3:49am
Quoting mihaig78
fxachilles, a question: right now there is a opportunity to go long, but price is marked by indecision. although the pullback is not deep, it is ranging. would you still take the break of the swing, or would you wait for a more pronounced swing?

welocme to the thread and thank you for your nice words.
I would definatly consider this as a good setup.. as long as price does not dip any lower than last swing (L/L) I would go long.
  • #2,311
  • Jun 2, 2009 3:58am Jun 2, 2009 3:58am
Quoting fxachilies
not a singel response to post 2296... why do i even bother.

good trading to all.
Well, Fxahilies! So I'll be first who does answer you at your research...

I think it will not surprise for everyone here, that I prefer short, tight stops...
But you did write there that in this type of trading we can catch small 10-15 pips wawes... I just not very agree with you... I can be wrong, but for me "testing" the market is: Trying to catch runner (wave - may be small, may be big), and in the same time to not loose much.
Like I see things: we can't predict market - we can't predict losses... We have our set up, and we HAVE TO TAKE trade everytime when we see opportunity (set up). In that times when the market goes to our side - we have to take profit as much as possible (trailing stop etc.),and it can be big strong runner too, not worse than runner when we give room to the market; BUT in times when market goes against us we have to stop our trades in as so small loss as possible...
And even having of tight stop doesn't mean in my opinion that we can't catch big waves... Having tight stop allows us also to exit when market turns against us and re-enter than if it reverses in our favor again... Personally I don't like to stay with loss position and pray and hope. For me it better to exit with logical loss and just look at the market, and wait.

I see it so: the bank takes profit only when deposit's rate is less than credit's rate... Our profits HAVE TO BE more than losses...

And for me now the most important thing is to learn how and when to exit out loss trade... I work about it EVERY DAY. I think - in this point we make trading an art - How to stop losses. The market has ONLY TWO directions. One of them is every time profitable. We don't know which one in this time (we can't predict). But if we will learn how to not give to market our money when it goes against us, then we have to learn how to take money from market when price goes in our favor... Just my opinion....

Wait for your inputs!!!!

Thanks!
  • #2,312
  • Jun 2, 2009 3:59am Jun 2, 2009 3:59am
the last 3hrs have bounced in between a 44 pip range, so i guess it is ranging
Survive & Preserve
  • #2,313
  • Jun 2, 2009 4:01am Jun 2, 2009 4:01am
Quoting lawl
post 2297 was a response to 2296. I was saying that maybe we could use the tight stops like in chart two, but use a trailing stop to take profits.

For instance... a sell order is triggered with a very tight stop and it moves to 10 pip profit. Move sl up to zero and put a 15/25 pip trailing stop. So now we have no risk and an opportunity for a runner.

Of course more often than not, the sl will be hit right after making the trade, however we could always get back in the trade if the market returns to the original spot of entry.

ok.. on the last paragraph you basically answered yourself.. I may add.. the only way you can really come out ahead with that way of trade managment is for instance you get a clean straight down runner with not much interuptions.. in my experince it does not happen enough to cover all small losses at best breakeven.
I like the thinking.. keep it up.
  • #2,314
  • Jun 2, 2009 4:04am Jun 2, 2009 4:04am
Quoting andrewb7
hey fx still re reading the thread but my thoughts r i would take the small profits on the first chart as u were probably about 15 pips ish in prifit then it turned against u about 35 pips ish , i dont hink i could let it go against me that far.
just my thoughts
andrew

I can respect that.. good observations.
  • #2,315
  • Jun 2, 2009 4:12am Jun 2, 2009 4:12am
Quoting fxachilies
ok.. on the last paragraph you basically answered yourself.. I may add.. the only way you can really come out ahead with that way of trade managment is for instance you get a clean straight down runner with not much interuptions.. in my experince it does not happen enough to cover all small losses at best breakeven.
I like the thinking.. keep it up.
Well the only part of the runner that would have to be a clean shot would be right when we entered the trade. After we have a little cushion our trailing stop could be 25 pips or so. That way the market would have some room. Once I have a sl at break even or so, I could give the market all the room it wants.

The only question is, does it happen even a small portion of the time that you get a runner that doesn't go more than say 10 pips negative. If not then what I'm proposing wouldn't work.
  • #2,316
  • Jun 2, 2009 4:13am Jun 2, 2009 4:13am
Quoting mihaig78
Regarding exits. This is a trade i took this morning at frankfurt open. I closed it at -12. I could have closed it at breakeven, i could have taken 10 pips profit, i could have placed a sl at pullback and closed at almost 20 pips and i was very tempted to close at the break of v shaped formation (fractal?). There are many flavours and i am still experimenting.

It all depends on what feels right to each one and more importantly on what brings in the dough more often than not. Looking at fxachilles exits i would say taking small profits would...
Taking small profits its a good way to go.. but with that style of trade managment it will be hard to end up with that london session bull run.. (my chart post 2296)

great response i like it..
  • #2,317
  • Jun 2, 2009 4:27am Jun 2, 2009 4:27am
Quoting dim4ik42
Well, Fxahilies! So I'll be first who does answer you at your research...

I think it will not surprise for everyone here, that I prefer short, tight stops...
But you did write there that in this type of trading we can catch small 10-15 pips wawes... I just not very agree with you... I can be wrong, but for me "testing" the market is: Trying to catch runner (wave - may be small, may be big), and in the same time to not loose much.
Like I see things: we can't predict market - we can't predict losses... We have our set up, and we...

this in not a matter of agree or disagree.. i dont even know what my true final style is in this matter. I put together two options of trade managment that are quite different and gives you different results..
its well understood that which one do you prefer and thank you for your response.
  • #2,318
  • Jun 2, 2009 4:38am Jun 2, 2009 4:38am
Quoting lawl
Well the only part of the runner that would have to be a clean shot would be right when we entered the trade. After we have a little cushion our trailing stop could be 25 pips or so. That way the market would have some room. Once I have a sl at break even or so, I could give the market all the room it wants.

The only question is, does it happen even a small portion of the time that you get a runner that doesn't go more than say 10 pips negative. If not then what I'm proposing wouldn't work.

who know my friend every trade is uniqe for itself.. I tell you my experince more often than not when i enter the market goes against me right away or on the next candel (sounds familiar)
back to my chart example.. on my short trade price did go in my favor to about 20pips and i gave the marekt room so i could catch a runner or atleast endup with 20 positive pips but at best i would have enede with breakeven.. to conclude end result was leaving money on the table.
  • #2,319
  • Jun 2, 2009 4:43am Jun 2, 2009 4:43am
hey fx would u trade the e/u past 38 of it goes there or is it too choppy??
Survive & Preserve
  • #2,320
  • Jun 2, 2009 4:48am Jun 2, 2009 4:48am
Quoting fxachilies
this in not a matter of agree or disagree.. i dont even know what my true final style is in this matter. I put together two options of trade managment that are quite different and gives you different results..
its well understood that which one do you prefer and thank you for your response.
Fxahilies!!!
I hope has not offended you by my speech. It is simply my reflections. I can be totally wrong, but I wouldn't like to seem rough and self-confident in my words. We have to be all friends here and give help to everyone who needs it. My excuse if I was bad boy... You have to remember that english is not my native language, so i can speek some strange
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