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Spread is Dead! Or is it?

  • #21
  • Jan 20, 2009 8:49am Jan 20, 2009 8:49am
Quoting fxtrader42
u

Forex Club,

I dont necessarily care if fx club keeps the other side of the trade and I give you some credit for at least saying you do, but... anyways. If you are a losing trader it doesnt really matter who has the other side of the trade because you lose . FX club knows that it can afford certain stats. For example, think of every trade you have ever lost, did you lose less than 4 pips? If you are worth half a shit the answer is no!

Therefore, FX club will book as much as they can because they know 90%...
fxtrader42, I would imagine that you would understand more than anyone that the line between those who profit and those who lose on forex is separated by how they manage risks. What expressFX does is makes it easier to calculate the risks and hence to manage them. And it is not surprising that someone with 5 years of experience trading the markets find expressFX a bit to simplistic, but guess what someone with 6 -12 months of trading experience think about this platform. Maybe you are just forgetting what it is like to be in those shoes when you just start on Forex and Forex Club really makes the effort to help you to get started on Forex.
  • #22
  • Jan 20, 2009 8:52am Jan 20, 2009 8:52am
Quoting qweabc
my main concern with brokers like this is...what if i take on a ridiculous amount of risk and make like 10000 times my original deposit. They would either
a. have to go out of business that they risked so much and worked so hard building.
b. cheat me out of my money by locking out my front end claiming there is a glitch, or not let me get out of my trade by continuously giving me requotes, till the market turned around.

It is human tendency to protect what you worked very hard for. If I were a broker like this one, I'd cheat my client out of his...
Hello queabc, I think you are raising a question about Forex Club's trustworthiness here. It is a good question by the way. I think that actions speak louder than words. See this link and decide for yourself: http://fxclub.com/customer-intervew/
  • #23
  • Jan 20, 2009 9:23am Jan 20, 2009 9:23am
Quoting fxRichard
How do you expect someone to take your company and platform for real when you have smiley faces on the chart???? When your long you have a smiley face at the top right and a frown face at the bottom right??? Seriously?????
fxRichard, this is a good comment actually. As there has been some controversy internally about these smiles as well, I would like to tell you more about their origins.

It is important to remember that ExpressFX was designed not for pros, but those who are new to Forex. You would be interested to know that our various focus groups has shown that people easier recognize familiar symbols and this is how the smilies made their way into the platform.

I think a user is the ultimate judge of a products quality and judjung by how much interest there has been out there for expressFX across the world, I think it is safe to say that - expressFX has been well designed for those who are new to Forex.

once again, thanks for a good comment fxRichard.

PS By the way our second platform is designed for professional traders and it does not have any smiles.
  • #24
  • Edited 5:57pm Jan 20, 2009 11:55am | Edited 5:57pm
I don't know this company, but if they do a great, honest job, I want them to be successful and prosperous. On my chart, I want 5 smiley faces
Probability Professor
  • #25
  • May 20, 2009 4:52am May 20, 2009 4:52am
"No commission on losing trades, 4 pips on winning trades."

With other brokers, euro$ is usually 1 pip spread. So, when I do 4 trades (each 1 million), the trading cost is $400 no matter how many trades I win or lose among those 4.

On the other hand, you (=Forex Club users)
(1) pay nothing if they lose all 4 trades.
(2) if you win 1 out of 4, then your cost and mine is same, that is $400.
(3) if you win 2 out of 4, your cost is $800, while mine is still $400.
(4) if you win 3 out of 4, your cost is $1200, while mine is still $400.
(5) if you win 4 out of 4, your cost is $1600, while mine is still $400.

Imagine the difference when you make 40 or 400 or 4000 trades. Imagine there are hundres or thousands novices like you on their platform, no wonder their capital is above $20 million.

You must be a 4-time loser among 4 trades for choosing it to be any meaningful in any respect. And if it's 50:50 chance of winning or losing, then the probability of 4-time losing is 1/16 = 6.25%



So never trade euro$ or $yen on their platform!!!
My advice is to trade only pound$ which many other brokers also offer 4 pip spread. In that case, among 2 trades, it's meaningful unless you win both. And if you win both, then mine and your cost of trading is same, that is $800.

If they allow to trade gbp/jpy, it would have been better since many other brokers offer 7-8 pip spread. But they don't allow to trade this pair on that platform....

While others aim at soliciting more experienced, high-volume professional traders, this one aims at robbering novices with ridiculous marketing scheme.



Outrageous..
  • #26
  • May 20, 2009 5:44am May 20, 2009 5:44am
It's a very innovative idea. Now just make that 3 pips or 2 pips, or let us trade some higher spread pairs, and you might have something pretty cool.
  • #27
  • May 20, 2009 7:35am May 20, 2009 7:35am
Quoting crane747
"No commission on losing trades, 4 pips on winning trades."

With other brokers, euro$ is usually 1 pip spread. So, when I do 4 trades (each 1 million), the trading cost is $400 no matter how many trades I win or lose among those 4.

On the other hand, you (=Forex Club users)
(1) pay nothing if they lose all 4 trades.
(2) if you win 1 out of 4, then your cost and mine is same, that is $400.
(3) if you win 2 out of 4, your cost is $800, while mine is still $400.
(4) if you win 3 out of 4, your cost is $1200, while mine is still $400.
(5) if...
Let's be honest. Who gives you a 1 pip on EURUSD? This is what they say but as soon as it comes to real trading your average spread is 3 pip. ( Re-quotes, slippage etc). And worst thing is that spreads are not fixed.
ExpressFX - commission based platform which mean that you will never pay more than $0.40. And you also you get commission back if you lose on your trade. For me, personally, it looks fair.

For most traded currency pairs (exept EURUSD) brokers offers from 3.7 to 5pips spread.So, why Forex Club with their "4pips" commission on profitable trades only looks no good?
  • #28
  • May 20, 2009 9:53am May 20, 2009 9:53am
Quoting ForexClub

And now, regarding "If you have a losing trade they just keep the amount that you lost." This is the principle that lies at the heart of the financial industry - not something practiced exclusively by Forex Club. There is always the other side of a trade and who exactly this is depends on a size of your trade.

So ur basically admitting to trading against smaller customers (like most of us here) who come to you in good faith.

If the customer loses keep the money but don't charge a spread to fool noobs into thinking what a great broker you are coz they don't know you've kept all the money anyway
  • #29
  • May 20, 2009 11:52am May 20, 2009 11:52am
Quoting fugly
So ur basically admitting to trading against smaller customers (like most of us here) who come to you in good faith.

If the customer loses keep the money but don't charge a spread to fool noobs into thinking what a great broker you are coz they don't know you've kept all the money anyway
I think what she was trying to say is that, what matters the most to the trader is the money you end up paying for your trades and not who you end up loosing the money to. If you trade with fxsol, gain or forex club with $100 dollars you really don't think that the money you loose goes to some party in the market and not the broker.
Bottom line is that when trader pays commission only when he makes money is the most favorable conditons to trade with.

Good luck trading !!
  • #30
  • May 20, 2009 2:08pm May 20, 2009 2:08pm
Quoting lavatrader
Let's be honest. Who gives you a 1 pip on EURUSD? This is what they say but as soon as it comes to real trading your average spread is 3 pip. ( Re-quotes, slippage etc). And worst thing is that spreads are not fixed.
ExpressFX - commission based platform which mean that you will never pay more than $0.40. And you also you get commission back if you lose on your trade. For me, personally, it looks fair.

For most traded currency pairs (exept EURUSD) brokers offers from 3.7 to 5pips spread.So, why Forex Club with their "4pips" commission [b]on...
Many traders, professional or novice, tend to win 4 days a week. It's the last 5th day that hurts you badly. That means # of winning trades outnumbers # of losing trades. So spread on winning trades is more important factor than spread on losing trades.

My first retail forex trades were with FXCM. At the time, they had only 5 staffs including CEO and we traded at their office. Below are from my personal observation since then:

If you're a novice with small account, FXCM Micro is the best. Period. Don't argue with me.
If you want fixed spread, try overseas brokers such as CMC Markets.
If you manage medium-size account, OANDA, GFT or Gain Capital's commission platform are the best. (GFT doesn't offer fractional pricing, but still excellent). Also FXCM has special deal but I don't want to elaborate on that. And at some point of this stage, you gotto start practicing big league ECNs - for that purpose, Viking or Curenex etc. via ADM or PFGBEST are most suitable.
If you trade above 200-300 million monthly with decent accounts, try Saxobank or AMIFX - this is the end of retail. Beyond that are BARX, Autobahn, Currenex, Hotspot, 360T etc..

Saying forex club is my favorite is like saying I don't know a sh**t about trading.


ahrrr.
  • #31
  • May 20, 2009 4:09pm May 20, 2009 4:09pm
Quoting crane747
If you're a novice with small account, FXCM Micro is the best. Period. Don't argue with me.

Dear Colleague
If you disagree with the concept of paying commission only when you make money – well then I rest my case talking about spreads and commissions. I prefer not to pay for loosing money.
If we take into consideration that you have more positive trades then negative ones --- this tells me that you are probably a scalper. Well I agree scalping probably is the best strategy for Oanda.
  • #32
  • May 21, 2009 4:11pm May 21, 2009 4:11pm
Quoting lavatrader
Dear Colleague
If you disagree with the concept of paying commission only when you make money – well then I rest my case talking about spreads and commissions. I prefer not to pay for loosing money.
If we take into consideration that you have more positive trades then negative ones --- this tells me that you are probably a scalper. Well I agree scalping probably is the best strategy for Oanda.
Do u have 3 digit IQ?
Losers like you who have more negative trades may or may not mean you're a scalper or super-long-term investor. More positive trades means I'm one of those 1% profitable trader, and I absolutely look down brokers like Forex Club.

And who are 'we' you refering? All you're talking and posting at Forexfacotry is about how great that crook broker is. You are their miserable salesman, arn't you? Moderator gotto ban this man. You look like virtually live here all day all forum and never miss to show up if that's anything about forex club.


geeee
  • #33
  • May 21, 2009 8:33pm May 21, 2009 8:33pm
Quoting crane747
Do u have 3 digit IQ?
Losers like you who have more negative trades may or may not mean you're a scalper or super-long-term investor. More positive trades means I'm one of those 1% profitable trader, and I absolutely look down brokers like Forex Club.

And who are 'we' you refering? All you're talking and posting at Forexfacotry is about how great that crook broker is. You are their miserable salesman, arn't you? Moderator gotto ban this man. You look like virtually live here all day all forum and never miss to show up if that's anything about...
Take it easy "master". You'll learn soon. Very soon
  • #34
  • May 21, 2009 8:44pm May 21, 2009 8:44pm
Quoting lavatrader
Take it easy "master". You'll learn soon. Very soon
I dont even know what your quote means. However, you should know that no legit player would ever trade with forex club. It is not a good model, unless you lose and in that case it doesnt matter.
  • #35
  • May 21, 2009 10:46pm May 21, 2009 10:46pm
Quoting fxtrader42
I dont even know what your quote means. However, you should know that no legit player would ever trade with forex club. It is not a good model, unless you lose and in that case it doesnt matter.
Well..Basicaly, you are saying that all traders who trading at forex club are not legit?
I am, personally, 100% sure that you as a customer must love the way when you pay to your broker only if you make. Have a nice, long weekend!
  • #36
  • May 22, 2009 6:56am May 22, 2009 6:56am
Quoting lavatrader
Let's be honest. Who gives you a 1 pip on EURUSD? This is what they say but as soon as it comes to real trading your average spread is 3 pip. ( Re-quotes, slippage etc). And worst thing is that spreads are not fixed.
ExpressFX - commission based platform which mean that you will never pay more than $0.40. And you also you get commission back if you lose on your trade. For me, personally, it looks fair.

For most traded currency pairs (exept EURUSD) brokers offers from 3.7 to 5pips spread.So, why Forex Club with their "4pips" commission [b]on...
3 pips on EU??? I often see 0 to .4 spread and GET IT, there is no reason with this kind of spread and slippage you would hit 3 pips on the most liquid pair out there.
  • #37
  • May 22, 2009 7:04am May 22, 2009 7:04am
Also don't forget this part...

"The minimum stop-loss and take-profit limits are is $1.30 for every 1000 units of the base currency. For example, if your position size is $10.000, the minimum limit for stop-loss and take-profit is 10 x $1.30 = $13. The Company retains the right to reject any trade with limit orders that violate this rule.

When you are changing your take-profit order on an open position that is currently making a profit, the new take-profit level should be set at not less than $1.30 for every 1000 units of the base currency from the current P/L.

When you are changing your stop-loss order on an open position that is currently making a loss, the new stop-loss level should be set at not less than $1.30 for every 1000 units of the base currency from the current P/L."

So basically your SL and TP have to be a minimum of 13 pips away. If your in a losing position and want to change your SL it has to be 13 pips away from the current price. Not that I care because I don't use TP or SL but the fine print could be useful to those that are considering them.
  • #38
  • Last Post: Jun 1, 2009 2:27pm Jun 1, 2009 2:27pm
I enjoyed the ExpressFX platform when I used it.

As far as all this discussion about commissions is concerned, here's a different perspective.

We all know that traders don't make 50-50 wins/losses. Let's say about 90% of traders lose and that, for this post's sake, an average trader wins 30% of the time he/she trades.

You are trading with __insert_name_here__ Broker who charges 2 pips per trade (I feel like 2 is a fair, average number for a major pair). You make 10 trades, and therefore spend 20 pips. Of the 10 trades you make, only 3 are successful. You paid 20 pips for these 10 trades, of which only 3 are successful.

Now you're trading with Forex Club. They charge you 4 pips per trade. You make 10 trades. Of these 10 trades, only 3 are successful. You initially spent (4 X 10 =) 40 pips for these ten trades, but since refunds are issued for the losing trades (70%), you only spent ((40-(7 X 4) =) 12 pips for these 10 trades, of which only 3 are successful. If you want to do some more math here, you can say that (hypothetically) your average trader will only spend 1.2 pips for each trade he/she makes.

I think their terms are fair. I also think the example I gave above is fair. Open to discussion
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