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MB Trading Futures - Introduction

  • #3,501
  • May 11, 2009 7:10pm May 11, 2009 7:10pm
Justin,

When do expect MT4 to be available for live trading?

Thanks,
PC
  • #3,502
  • May 11, 2009 7:12pm May 11, 2009 7:12pm
Fulltime, you should research a bit how swap-rates are calculated. For some pairs its not unusual that there are negative swaps on both sides - due to the interest rate spread. There is an actively traded market for swaps, and there is a bid/ask spread like in any other instrument. It is true that mb has exceptionally unfavorable rolls, however, the fact that you have to pay on both ends in some pairs is normal, the question is more how much(obviously too much, in MBs case).
  • #3,503
  • May 11, 2009 9:04pm May 11, 2009 9:04pm
Quoting shrike
Fulltime, you should research a bit how swap-rates are calculated. For some pairs its not unusual that there are negative swaps on both sides - due to the interest rate spread. There is an actively traded market for swaps, and there is a bid/ask spread like in any other instrument. It is true that mb has exceptionally unfavorable rolls, however, the fact that you have to pay on both ends in some pairs is normal, the question is more how much(obviously too much, in MBs case).
I think MB Trading has made it clear they are for short time traders. I *actually* like this about them. It means that I can use the for my short term trades and not worry that they'll lose focus and try to be everything to everyone.

Unfortunately! high commissions suck for short term trades and only make sense for positional traders where the commissions don't really matter as much.

So that's kinda dumb .. bad rollover and bad commissions. NOt sure they thought that one through very well.
  • #3,504
  • May 12, 2009 1:22pm May 12, 2009 1:22pm
Quoting blazespinnaker
I think MB Trading has made it clear they are for short time traders. I *actually* like this about them. It means that I can use the for my short term trades and not worry that they'll lose focus and try to be everything to everyone.

Unfortunately! high commissions suck for short term trades and only make sense for positional traders where the commissions don't really matter as much.

So that's kinda dumb .. bad rollover and bad commissions. NOt sure they thought that one through very well.
I guess that I don't understand the mb commission structure. I thought that for USD based pairs the commission was 0.5 pips one way, or 1 pip round trip. But you save typically several pips on the spread (one way) since mb is an ecn. Am i off by a decimal point or something?
  • #3,505
  • May 12, 2009 3:48pm May 12, 2009 3:48pm
Quoting MadCow
I guess that I don't understand the mb commission structure. I thought that for USD based pairs the commission was 0.5 pips one way, or 1 pip round trip. But you save typically several pips on the spread (one way) since mb is an ecn. Am i off by a decimal point or something?
You are correct. Between the savings in the spread (and the ability to never pay the spread with your limit orders) plus the better order control, any trader that has a basic understanding of execution should come out ahead on most pairs with the MB structure, even better if you are a volume trader and get a discounted rate. The people who whine are typically newbies who haven't thought it through. I never understand when people say "XXX broker is $20 per mil, you are $50, you must be a worse broker." Those must be the same people that buy Kia's instead of BMW's. Clearly a better car because it costs less.

Nothing against Kia owners. ;-)
  • #3,506
  • May 12, 2009 4:37pm May 12, 2009 4:37pm
Quoting IndyTrader
You are correct. Between the savings in the spread (and the ability to never pay the spread with your limit orders) plus the better order control, any trader that has a basic understanding of execution should come out ahead on most pairs with the MB structure, even better if you are a volume trader and get a discounted rate. The people who whine are typically newbies who haven't thought it through. I never understand when people say "XXX broker is $20 per mil, you are $50, you must be a worse broker." Those must be the same people that buy Kia's...
You're assuming that the other brokers who charge less are inferior. Perhaps you should explain why you feel that way rather than resorting to unhelpful condescension.
  • #3,507
  • May 12, 2009 4:54pm May 12, 2009 4:54pm
Quoting blazespinnaker
Fair enough.

Why are your commissions so high? Dukas has $18/mio, and IB has $20/mio.

Also, you're the only broker I can find that won't open up accounts in BC/Canada. What's up with that?
I don’t accept the premise that our commissions are high. It’s a measurement of how much liquidity we provide, how many sources we provide (some sources cost more than others to incorporate into our feed), and the costs of the technology to route your trade under the variety of order types that we offer. We’re also one of the few brokers that offers $400 account mini trading via true ECN, and there are slightly higher costs to the smaller order sizes, which are still a transaction, just with a lower value. That’s why our bigger traders get discounted commissions. Let me phrase it this way, and this is a little extreme but should accomplish the point.

If you are a smaller trader that typically trades minis, then we are one of the few solutions for you to trade without a desk, but the cost level is a little higher than it otherwise would be. I don’t like to mention brokers by name, but one of the two that you mentioned has a “minimum” per trade cost that makes a substantial difference for traders trying to trade a couple of minis at a time. Either way, the cost on the smaller transactions is about the same, we just make it more available to smaller traders.

If you are a larger trader that does good volume in the forex marketplace, we offer lowered rates down to the $3 per $100,000 traded level (versus the headline $5 per $100,000 traded). So the scale is largely the same, but that’s without measuring the amount of liquidity, average spread size, and the complexity of order types at your disposal.
  • #3,508
  • May 12, 2009 5:53pm May 12, 2009 5:53pm
Quoting jleblang
I don’t accept the premise that our commissions are high. It’s a measurement of how much liquidity we provide, how many sources we provide (some sources cost more than others to incorporate into our feed), and the costs of the technology to route your trade under the variety of order types that we offer. We’re also one of the few brokers that offers $400 account mini trading via true ECN, and there are slightly higher costs to the smaller order sizes, which are still a transaction, just with a lower value. That’s why our bigger traders get discounted...
I agree about Duka .. but IB? Do they really have that inferior amount of liquidity that justifies your premium?

I still wish I knew why you guys won't open up in BC. That's pretty frustrating..
  • #3,509
  • May 12, 2009 6:22pm May 12, 2009 6:22pm
Quoting Pip Chaser
Justin,

When do expect MT4 to be available for live trading?

Thanks,
PC
He is probably tired of answering that one, the standard answer is no estimated completion time for now. I fired up the demo today and based on what i saw, they are not close!!

regards all
  • #3,510
  • May 13, 2009 12:09am May 13, 2009 12:09am
Quoting blazespinnaker
I agree about Duka .. but IB? Do they really have that inferior amount of liquidity that justifies your premium?

I still wish I knew why you guys won't open up in BC. That's pretty frustrating..
IB probably has more liquidity, but they also require min lots 2.5, do not trade mini's, and discourage short term trades. They are set up for position traders.
  • #3,511
  • May 13, 2009 1:16am May 13, 2009 1:16am
Quoting blazespinnaker
I agree about Duka .. but IB? Do they really have that inferior amount of liquidity that justifies your premium?

I still wish I knew why you guys won't open up in BC. That's pretty frustrating..
Regarding Canada, this is largely out of our control. It is the Canadian government that essentially requires that we have an office in BC to get approved.
  • #3,512
  • May 13, 2009 1:20am May 13, 2009 1:20am
Quoting goldsurfer
He is probably tired of answering that one, the standard answer is no estimated completion time for now. I fired up the demo today and based on what i saw, they are not close!!

regards all
goldsurfer ~

I wouldn't assume that the demo environment will be totally operational before the Live environment. Remember that our Demo environments are subject to a lot of testing that we don't expose our Live environments to.
  • #3,513
  • May 13, 2009 1:49am May 13, 2009 1:49am
Quoting MadCow
IB probably has more liquidity, but they also require min lots 2.5, do not trade mini's, and discourage short term trades. They are set up for position traders.
I don't see how IB discourages short term trading in the slightest.. especially with the lowest rate in the retail ECN space. Care to elaborate?
  • #3,514
  • May 13, 2009 2:06am May 13, 2009 2:06am
Quoting jleblang
Regarding Canada, this is largely out of our control. It is the Canadian government that essentially requires that we have an office in BC to get approved.
How come none of the other brokers are required to do this? Did you do something to piss off the BC government?
  • #3,515
  • May 13, 2009 2:07am May 13, 2009 2:07am
Quoting Trader KGB
I don't see how IB discourages short term trading in the slightest.. especially with the lowest rate in the retail ECN space. Care to elaborate?
Yeah, I'd like to hear the answer to this one as well.
  • #3,516
  • May 13, 2009 7:44am May 13, 2009 7:44am
Quoting Pip Chaser
Justin,
When do expect MT4 to be available for live trading?
This is what I just received from MB regarding this question:

---------------------------------------------------------

Hi Edward,

We are in the final stages of beta testing MT4, once this process concludes live accounts will be readily available. We will notify you once accounts go live. Thank you!

Ramon H. Valenzuela
MB Trading Futures

1926 East Maple Ave.
El Segundo, CA 90245
Tel: 480.212.1112
Direct: 480.304.5406
Toll Free: 877.212.1112
Fax: 480.659.5669
  • #3,517
  • May 13, 2009 11:49am May 13, 2009 11:49am
Quoting blazespinnaker
You're assuming that the other brokers who charge less are inferior. Perhaps you should explain why you feel that way rather than resorting to unhelpful condescension.
Ummm, I did explain. Maybe you should read.

More liquidity.

Better order control.

I wouldn't trust FXDD from what I've read, but I have had an account with IB and MB (and others). IB's focus is not FOREX, it is the options market. They have a FOREX account option because they cover everything, but it's not like they have invested in the execution technology.
  • #3,518
  • May 13, 2009 6:04pm May 13, 2009 6:04pm
Quoting blazespinnaker
Yeah, I'd like to hear the answer to this one as well.
I cannot find the source for part of my comment, so I must retract it for now I ran across it somewhere on the IB site when researching the API.. I got the impression that IB discouraged short term trades. Don't know why this should be true, but that's what I remember.. course I have MadCow so my memory is not the best. I will continue to look thru my history on the net, but I don't hold out much hope. Perhaps someone else can comment?

I have both MBT and IB accounts, but have not used either for scalping. I do not favor either. However, since MBT claims to be working on MT4 platform it will probably be easier to use automatic trading, which is my goal. Also I have interfaced to the Nav, and it is definitely easier than the IB API. (Note that MBT has been claiming the MT4 is coming for almost 6 months, and I think the guys doing the implementation have been in the business of trying to interface MT4 to an ECN since 2006, so who knows if it will come to pass).

As for the account minimums, here's the quote:

http://www.interactivebrokers.com/en...?ib_entity=llc
In order to open a new account the following minimums are required:
Category Required Deposit
Individuals, Trading Group Masters, and Broker Masters USD 10,000 (or USD equivalent)
IRAs USD 4,000 (or USD equivalent)
Individuals age 21 or younger USD 3,000 (or USD equivalent)
Advisor and Broker Clients USD 5,000 (or USD equivalent)

http://individuals.interactivebroker...?ib_entity=llc
Interactive Brokers Forex ECN offers traders direct access to interbank prices and dealing for orders as small as 25,000 USD
(or equivalent), and up to 10 million USD, or more

Definitely not mini's.

I will treat this forum like a refereed journal in the future.
  • #3,519
  • May 13, 2009 6:51pm May 13, 2009 6:51pm
IB has a minimum commission of $2.5 per ticket for f/x, so you need to trade 100K+ units (depending on which pair) to take advantage on their low commission rates. If you trade less than 100K per trade then MB is cheaper. Liquidity and spreads are not much different.
  • #3,520
  • May 14, 2009 2:18pm May 14, 2009 2:18pm
Build 224 has a new error code, 149, "Hedging is prohibited".

I buy 3 lots, then I sell 4.

Your MT4 gives me a "no hedging error" and the order fails rather than reversing the position and going short 1 lot.

Navigator does it correctly, if I remember right. It's been a long time since I used it.
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