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  • #201
  • Mar 27, 2009 4:44pm Mar 27, 2009 4:44pm
Hi,

thought I would jump back into this thread, I've seen the ECN thing mentioned but to be honest I can't quite get my head around exactly what an ECN is. Why would this bet better than using say Alpari, whats the difference exactly.

I think I must move from Alpari, its beyond ridiculous some days. Ideally i'll find a spread betting company (such as IG Index) who do forex and use metatrader as the platform but this seems unlikley, so I looked at ECN.

But I can't decide if they are any better or why I would (or wouldn't) want to use them.

Any info or heads up on this would be appreciated.

PG
  • #202
  • Mar 27, 2009 5:37pm Mar 27, 2009 5:37pm
Quoting pgtips
Hi,

thought I would jump back into this thread, I've seen the ECN thing mentioned but to be honest I can't quite get my head around exactly what an ECN is. Why would this bet better than using say Alpari, whats the difference exactly.

I think I must move from Alpari, its beyond ridiculous some days. Ideally i'll find a spread betting company (such as IG Index) who do forex and use metatrader as the platform but this seems unlikley, so I looked at ECN.

But I can't decide if they are any better or why I would (or wouldn't) want to use them.

Any...
Unfortunately MT4 doesn't support spread betting.
  • #203
  • Mar 27, 2009 9:29pm Mar 27, 2009 9:29pm
Quoting MythosKid
I thought this thread is about Alpari, but you keep pushing for other brokers. Are you working for one of them? Let's keep this conversation about Alpari UK and try to be constructive - "Alpari suck" doesn't give enough details, does it?

Alpari is not perfect, but it's not an ECN and has got other advantages, i.e swaps.

Believe me, even ECN's and big banks have problems with execution. Recently, I got access to DB's instutional feed and they even sometimes have problems with fills. The market has been crazy for the last six months and...
Yea sure, I work for the Worldwide ECN Conglomerate. If you've been reading the last couple pages I've (and others) have stated the problems with Alpari. scary slippage. 3 to 4 minute reqoute time, multiple requotes, slow price updates, platform freezes, etc... I'm speaking up because Alpari used to be good and the overwhelming reviews (mine included) are positive and those thumbs ups suck unsuspecting new user in. One of the hardest things to do is find a good broker and if I can help someone avoid the mistakes I made in the beginning it puts a smile on my face.

Also ATC is NOT a broker - They ARE a IB that adds value by building a MT4 to ECN Feed platform (FXCM now, was Hotspot - Its better now!) - You dont write checks to them and they only get cash from the commission. They dont have ANY incentive to cheat you. The more you trade, the more they make. I've criticized then in the past but for now they are one of the best solutions available along with a few others that don't trade against you.
  • #204
  • Mar 27, 2009 9:35pm Mar 27, 2009 9:35pm
im not having the same problems as you. Like you say it could be problems because of the change in servers recently. It might blow over once things have settled.
Just for anyone else that is considering alpari I dont have any problems with them, and I dont work for them. But I have never tried ecns or any other broker other than for demo account, so my word is not gospel.
  • #205
  • Mar 27, 2009 11:15pm Mar 27, 2009 11:15pm
i have a liveaccount at ALPARI since nov 08...and i am very happy with them. Of course there is some slippage or requotes sometimes...but there are crazy markets since sep 2008....when i compare it with fxdd, cmc markets, abn amro, mig or northfinance..i must say ALPARI is great! i use an ea...the slippage and the requotes are no problem for me...if you got a good programmed ea...this will be no problem ;-) ...and about the requotes...often comes the price back...so i get my order filled later...but i got filled!!!! From 12 trades i maybe miss 1 because of requotes. For me it seems that the execution is better since you can choose between classic and micro account.
And about higher spreads at newstimes...you are so funny...look at the spreads of brokers which have variable spreads. look at the spreads at newstimes at all the ecn brokers!!! Opening an account also very fast and uncomplicated (for me living in EU), my friend opened thursday afternoon...sent them all documents..1 h later he received his account details and made a deposit via eu-standard wiretransfer..next monday morning he was able to trade. I never had problems with withdrawals, always very fast. In my opinion all depends on your strategy...if you got a good strategy you will be very happy with them.
  • #206
  • Mar 28, 2009 12:00am Mar 28, 2009 12:00am
Quoting moneymob
In my opinion all depends on your strategy...if you got a good strategy you will be very happy with them.
What does Alpari "Requotes" have to do with Strategy? If I try to execute a order at $1.50 and the price moves to $1.58 before the platform allows me to place another order - what does that have to do with my strategy of executing a order at $1.50? Also I don't consider HOPING the price comes back down to $1.50 so I can get another shot at getting my desired price is a workable trading strategy but "If you like it,....."
  • #207
  • Edited 7:52am Mar 28, 2009 2:07am | Edited 7:52am
Quoting Fulltime247
Yea sure, I work for the Worldwide ECN Conglomerate. If you've been reading the last couple pages I've (and others) have stated the problems with Alpari. scary slippage. 3 to 4 minute reqoute time, multiple requotes, slow price updates, platform freezes, etc... I'm speaking up because Alpari used to be good and the overwhelming reviews (mine included) are positive and those thumbs ups suck unsuspecting new user in. One of the hardest things to do is find a good broker and if I can help someone avoid the mistakes I made in the beginning it...
There is no such thing as perfect broker. Alpari is not an exception, but if you ask me about MT4 broker I would trade with them. I will never trade with US brokers, because of NFA and their crazy ideas. So for me Alpari would be the only option - solid regulation (FSA) and MT4.

Trading with ATC is the same as trading with FXCM. FXCM provides price feed and fills, ATC just gives you MT4 platform.

I hope that by introducing new servers Alpari will improve their service and this discussion can be over.
  • #208
  • Mar 28, 2009 3:42pm Mar 28, 2009 3:42pm
Quoting Fulltime247
If I try to execute a order at $1.50 and the price moves to $1.58 before the platform allows me to place another order - what does that have to do with my strategy of executing a order at $1.50? Also I don't consider HOPING the price comes back down to $1.50 so I can get another shot at getting my desired price is a workable trading strategy but "If you like it,....."
800 pips and not filled ? of course i know what you mean. Well, are you a newstrader? at newstimes are big pricemovements and lots of requotes. But this is what i mean with strategy...i was also a very succuessful newstrader...but for this kind of trading i used another broker. right now for my kind of strategy and trading alpari is nearly perfect...
  • #209
  • Mar 28, 2009 4:05pm Mar 28, 2009 4:05pm
Quoting MythosKid
Unfortunately MT4 doesn't support spread betting.
No, you misunderstand.

You use the spread-betting company to trade with, but use an MT4 demo for charting.

This is a good idea because although spread-betting companies do provide charts all the ones I've seen are terrible.
  • #210
  • Mar 28, 2009 6:24pm Mar 28, 2009 6:24pm
Quoting Saint Stevo
No, you misunderstand.

You use the spread-betting company to trade with, but use an MT4 demo for charting.

This is a good idea because although spread-betting companies do provide charts all the ones I've seen are terrible.
I know that spread-betters are terrible with charting. Only thing which keeps them going is tax free trading. I heard that Gordon's boys are thinking about changing spread-betting law. Government needs money
If it happens spot FX will rule in UK.
  • #211
  • Mar 28, 2009 6:32pm Mar 28, 2009 6:32pm
Quoting moneymob
800 pips and not filled ? of course i know what you mean. Well, are you a newstrader? at newstimes are big pricemovements and lots of requotes. But this is what i mean with strategy...i was also a very succuessful newstrader...but for this kind of trading i used another broker. right now for my kind of strategy and trading alpari is nearly perfect...


In defense of Fulltime,

Till Jan - Mach this year I was a major Alpari supporter. I never had an issue with them. Made nice returns and had flexible leverage fixed spreads and other currency accounts ready to go to when I wanted.

In Feb the requotes started to increase. I am not a scalper i am not a news trader, I trade on 15 min charts with stops and limits to exit on 15-30 pips depending on the range.

The issue was getting into the market! I enter on the start of the new bar entry is critical I can't afford to lose a pip or two. Now people I trade the eur/usd 95% of the time and trade the cable here there aswell. I was getting 4-5 requotes on the eur/usd it was nuts! this is in the eur lon us session.

on a cable trade i was 20+ pips up i was requoted 16 times when i tried to close manulay and i left with +7 that really upset me.

It got to a point were I could not even think of trading the cable and on euro i still got 1-5 reqoutes going in i became scared to trade!

when this happend I withdrew all my money and that's the end or Alapri for me.

I am waiting to go live with ATC. that was a terrible exprience as I really liked this broker.

Cheers,
  • #212
  • Mar 28, 2009 11:54pm Mar 28, 2009 11:54pm
Thnx Apocalypto!! Much appreciated - Your example shows how critical it is to get into a trade when YOU want to - NOT when a broker lets you. I also was a BIG Alpari fan until... I've had LIVE account with Alpari, IBFX and a few other Market Makers. I got burnt out on HOPING my broker was fair. With ECN's you dont have to worry about broker tricks. Successful trading is hard enough. Newbies don't understand that a good strategy isn't worth beans if your broker wont let you execute it!

I will NEVER again trade with a broker that takes the other side. The temptation to skim pips only gets worse when the MM realizes that they can make MORE money cheating than playing the game straight since 95% will blow the account anyway. They'd rather have you lose that cash to them than the market. So crushing the 5% winners and making them leave is worth it as long as the other 95% never wise up and make them stop cheating.

I actually think Alpari is cheating people to raise the NFA 20 million. Pretty strange coincidence that months before the deadline. Their normally great service turns to hot garbage!! - P.S.: The $1.50 to $1.58 WAS AN EXAMPLE!!
  • #213
  • Mar 29, 2009 1:22am Mar 29, 2009 1:22am
you might have some valid points fulltime.
The target they have to reach is a concern to say the least. What happens if they dont reach that target? Maybe they are trying to squeeze what they can to get the target, its a valid reason.
But its not real fair to blame alpari totally for that, because its whats mandatory for them to continue their service.
If alpari_uk could either confirm or explain some of these things it would be appreciated im sure...
  • #214
  • Mar 29, 2009 2:34am Mar 29, 2009 2:34am
Quoting fry2010
you might have some valid points fulltime.
The target they have to reach is a concern to say the least. What happens if they dont reach that target? Maybe they are trying to squeeze what they can to get the target, its a valid reason.
But its not real fair to blame alpari totally for that, because its whats mandatory for them to continue their service.
If alpari_uk could either confirm or explain some of these things it would be appreciated im sure...
Sorry am I correct, you are saying that it's okay for them to slip orders and do other nasty things because they need to get capital? No, that's not a valid reason.

Even for longer timeframe traders like me few pips here and there makes a huge difference in the longer run, especially when the account is larger. 2 pips on 1 std lot is 20 euros. 2 pips on 10 std lots is 200 euros. Multipy that with 100 trades and you'll undrstand why slippage is very, very bad.

Are you willing to pay that kind of an extra commission (yes - spread and slippage are both commission for broker)?

ps. this doesn't mean that there isn't slippage on ECN as well, I have beet trading with Interactive Brokers for a long time and even they have slippage on stops (both entries and exits). but at least I know that they are because of the market. I haven't traded on alpari so I can't say how the slippage there compares to real world or other brokers.
  • #215
  • Mar 29, 2009 2:48am Mar 29, 2009 2:48am
seriosly what are you talking about? You are worried about a little slippage because it adds up at the end of the year? if you was a profitable trader you would not be saying that. A few pips here and there, yes its not ideal but its not the end of the world either. Your the second idiot iv come accross this weekend. For some reason ff seems to attract your type.
You must have an incredibly tight account growth to be worried about a few pips per trade. Who are u to tell me whether I shud be happy with the service my broker provides me? Who are u? Please do tell...

LOL totally contradict your own comment and actually proove u talk out of ur ass:

Quoting mikkom
ps. this doesn't mean that there isn't slippage on ECN as well, I have beet trading with Interactive Brokers for a long time and even they have slippage on stops (both entries and exits). but at least I know that they are because of the market
You say you dont like slippage because it adds up at the end of the year to cost you yet you are happy with the slippage you have with your broker because its with the real market???

go away...
  • #216
  • Mar 29, 2009 3:02am Mar 29, 2009 3:02am
Quoting >Apocalypto<
It got to a point were I could not even think of trading the cable and on euro i still got 1-5 reqoutes going in i became scared to trade!

when this happend I withdrew all my money and that's the end or Alapri for me.

I am waiting to go live with ATC. that was a terrible exprience as I really liked this broker.
Same here. Liked alpari -->> stopped liking alpari -->> demoing ATC with the intent of going live with them -->> waiting for MBT's MT4 become functional...
sans peur et sans reproche
  • #217
  • Edited 5:16am Mar 29, 2009 4:49am | Edited 5:16am
Quoting fry2010
seriosly what are you talking about? You are worried about a little slippage because it adds up at the end of the year? if you was a profitable trader you would not be saying that.
You don't trade large enough to understand this if you are saying silly things like that. It's not very polite to call people idiot or losers based on your assumptions.

You also haven't done your homework if you say 2 pips here and there doesn't matter. Do a 5-10 year calculation and see how much it is in real money based in percentages and your personal trade volumes. hint: bigger the account the more the few pips slippage here and there hurts.

Slippage on ECN is only because STOP order becomes MARKET order when touched. There is no "slippage" on the same sense as in market makers on ECN (the "slippage" might as well be positive as negative, depends on market) - even on very fast spikes on news time. You don't probably understand this until you have traded some time with ECN.
  • #218
  • Mar 29, 2009 5:24am Mar 29, 2009 5:24am
basically i called you an idiot because you have pushed your ideals on to me and suggested i am in fact stupid for thinking slippage is not a big deal.
You are right I dont trade huge volumes.
I have read a few articles suggesting that worrying over a few pips on entry is not what you need to worry about. It wasnt talking about slippage but difference in entry. If you really want i will find that article.
Clearly I can see that a few pips will add up but you know what? the market doesnt have set rules it abides by and you should be flexible in your approach. For example last friday I actually had a few pips slippage on a trade. Did it bother me? not at all because I made profit. Now if I had left that trade I would not have made profit.
On mt4 you can actually set the limit of slippage you will allow, so if you dont get in then wait for price to come down untill you do. Just because the market or your broker isnt playing fair with you doesnt mean you should complain about it. Deal with it and make up for it on another trade where you could perhaps take a better position to make up for those 'lost' pips. Set a slightly further tp whatever, be flexible.

I have heard a lot of mixed views on ECNs some good traders here too say they are not so different to retail brokers. At the end of the day I am happy with alpari and the slippage that can occur. Maybe when Im trading thousands then I would be trading with an ECN anyway so according to you it would not be a problem anymore. The fact is though I have to trade with a standard broker, and Im not one to complain about it. I just get on with it and adjust.

Next time before passing judgement and comment on a perfectly valid post think 'How does this benifit me or everyone else? Am I just posting to be arogant? Am I going to tell this person what is right and wrong?'

Quote
Sorry am I correct, you are saying that it's okay for them to slip orders and do other nasty things because they need to get capital? No, that's not a valid reason.

You actually had my words mixed up right there. What my meaning was is that fulltimes comment about them doing this could be a valid reason.

Also when you say your trading large amounts and you worry about a few pips because it adds up to be a lot, surely because you are trading in larger amounts it is actually relative to your profit anyway...
  • #219
  • Mar 29, 2009 5:32am Mar 29, 2009 5:32am
seriosly if your trading huge amounts, why are you wasting your time with me?
  • #220
  • Edited 4:35pm Mar 29, 2009 5:44am | Edited 4:35pm
I’ve been posting on this thread for a last few days and I decided instead of having regular fight with others that I will write why I think Alpari is a decent broker. Don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying that Alpari UK is the best ever (there is no such thing), but it’s good enough for me to trust Alpari with my trading money.

-Alpari had some problems recently, but they reacted by improving their servers. It’s good to see that broker is trying to fix the problem, not pretending that everything is fine. I hope that new servers will improve their service/execution.

-They are very transparent – no many other brokers inform us about potential problems, upgrades, etc.

-Regulation – they operating in the highly regulated (FSA) environment, which is extremely important to me. FSA sets stable and clear rules. In contrast NFA is introducing new ideas every 3 months (i.e. scraping hedging) that don’t help us as traders.

-From a legal point of view Alpari UK and Alpari US are two separate companies and accusations that UK is collecting money for US to reach $20m cap doesn’t make sense.

-I had a few trade queries while trading with Alpari and everything was resolve in a very professional way. In general I think their customer service is way better than others.


BTW. I noticed that some of people commenting on this thread are based in US, which means that they can’t have trading account with Alpari UK. Personally, I think that commenting on demo experience doesn’t count.
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