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MB Trading Futures - Introduction

  • #3,261
  • Mar 7, 2009 3:03am Mar 7, 2009 3:03am
Guys,
NFA is just a regulator and they help us to protect again dirty tricks cause by broker or something like that, but if they can only play with big brokers who have big capital and can't regulate for ECN brokers that really play fair with us but with smaller capital, I would throw them into garbage ! What did they do to protect many trader who have been cheated by their broker out there ? nearly nothing. What did they do to stop FXCM from playing dirty trick ? nothing.
So why do we need them ? for their name ? or their actions ?
Rich is just a definition !
  • #3,262
  • Edited 3:58am Mar 7, 2009 3:42am | Edited 3:58am
Quoting hazenvnn
Guys,
NFA is just a regulator and they help us to protect again dirty tricks cause by broker or something like that, but if they can only play with big brokers who have big capital and can't regulate for ECN brokers that really play fair with us but with smaller capital, I would throw them into garbage ! What did they do to protect many trader who have been cheated by their broker out there ? nearly nothing. What did they do to stop FXCM from playing dirty trick ? nothing.
So why do we need them ? for their name ? or their actions ?
You have to realize that these organizations (SEC, NFA, CFTC, etc.) are self-imposed regulatory bodies. That means that all of these organizations were set up and funded by the very people they are supposed to regulate. No matter how they try and spin it, these are not governmental bodies (at least not completely and definitely not in an autonomous capacity from the industry they are supposed to be regulating). Look at how in most cases the SEC simply requires the broker/bank/whatever to pay a fine for their supposed transgression. These fines may look massive, but it's typically a small percentage of the actual money they made doing what got them fined. They don't even have to admit wrong doing. They will often turn a blind eye to industry wrongdoing until it's outed in the media then jump in like a white knight to save the day. So who's interests are really served here?

Yeah, they will protect clients from some kinds of overt fraud, but really they are there to protect the industry. Go and read about the history of the SEC, it will open your eyes a lot. Ever wondered about why all brokers require arbitration in the event of a dispute? Go and research who is in charge of the arbitration and how it's set up. Everything favors the brokers.
  • #3,263
  • Mar 9, 2009 11:01am Mar 9, 2009 11:01am
Weird, had a couple of positions open on GU and GJ, hovering around break even, and then they started flipping to +2000 pips. It did it a couple of times. I opted to close the trades out where they were rather than chancing it if MB are having tech issues. Unfortunately I didn't get filled at +2000 but it did look pretty cool in the Open P/L box.
  • #3,264
  • Mar 9, 2009 2:20pm Mar 9, 2009 2:20pm
Ok I have used MB with the Navigator and was able to trade .01 (1 penny lots).

When MB goes to MT4 will we be able to trade pennies? or will it be like all others and only do dimes?

I cannot stand IBFX and need to make a change but I like the option of trading pennies so if MB can do it I will switch!


Please someone give me some good news about penny lots with MB and MT4
M4X............ Hedging My Way To Profits!
  • #3,265
  • Mar 9, 2009 2:29pm Mar 9, 2009 2:29pm
Quoting M4X
Ok I have used MB with the Navigator and was able to trade .01 (1 penny lots).

When MB goes to MT4 will we be able to trade pennies? or will it be like all others and only do dimes?

I cannot stand IBFX and need to make a change but I like the option of trading pennies so if MB can do it I will switch!


Please someone give me some good news about penny lots with MB and MT4
Based on their demo platform it doesn't look like it. 0.1 is the lowest it will accept. That's not to say it won't be offered when they go live.
  • #3,266
  • Edited 7:57pm Mar 10, 2009 11:46am | Edited 7:57pm
I posted in this thread about "ghost" orders that can show up on your MB Trading Navigator order platform:

http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=157076

I closed a position that appeared out of nowhere during that same maintenance period because I thought it must of been an order I forgot.
When I closed that position no open or pending orders were left.

Hours later when I woke up the order I used to close the position had become a live position down 60 pips. I waited hoping it would go positive but closed it with a 65 pip loss!!!

A call to MB Trading and they said they sent messages to everyone using the Navigator not to close "ghost" positions. I didn't see it! But they insisted I should of.

So always call the desk if you use MB Trading and get a problem or they'll make you eat crap that is their fault!!!!!!!!!!
  • #3,267
  • Mar 10, 2009 12:32pm Mar 10, 2009 12:32pm
The one clunky drawback to Mb is the nightly shutdown for 15 min or so when the markets are open, but you are not able to trade. Last night for the second time in the 2 months I've been with MB, they lost positions, and opened erroneous positions during the maintainence period.

Although I called immediately, having just seen this crap two or three weeks ago and was able to get out of my positions by going flat ( not what I wanted but safe) many people were not and were stuck in positions with no one answering the phone, during the flood of calls.

That is the last time I hold positions over the maintainence period, a real drag, and extra cost in commission to boot, getting out of positions and then reoopening.

If you are considering MB Trading, be aware that although they have talked about moving this nightly nightmare to 5 PM, it has still not been done. The least they could do is get their system to do this accurately, so it is only a 15 min afair, no an hour long wait with positions going against you, erroneous positions opened in your account that will have to be removed later etc.

Really an example of poor, poor service.

PS. The note not to close erroneous positions came up after a good ten minutes, no one from MB was on the chat feature to tell people what was going on, and after I called, many on Chat were saying no one was picking up the phone. Terrible Terrible.
  • #3,268
  • Mar 10, 2009 2:40pm Mar 10, 2009 2:40pm
Crassius-

Thanks for your post. Regarding midnight maintenance, we have moved maintenance for the upcoming MetaTrader 4 application launch, meaning our demo and beta (live) environments there do not experience a midnight EST halt for system maintenance. Instead, this occurs at 5 pm EST along with regular global settlement and rollover.

The process of moving the maintenance window for our regular platform is a little more complicated for reasons that I’ll explain here. It isn’t just about Navigator and our retail customers. If it were, this move would have occurred already as we have the necessary adjustments ready internally. Unfortunately, there are numerous third parties that plug their applications into our execution through the Navigator SDK/API. Each of those entities has programmed their systems to expect and deal with midnight maintenance. At the moment, we have to address the fact that a move of midnight maintenance will impact all of their systems, and we need to make sure that they have had the proper amount of time to adjust for what this means on their end.

Undoubtedly, public perception is somehow that we don’t get the issues with having what is usually a brief 5-minute maintenance at midnight EST. In fact, we very much get it and have spent a lot of time over the last six months rewriting parts of Navigator and our trade servers to be ready to make the move, but it isn’t just a snap of the fingers once that is done. We have a responsibility to all of the Third Parties that run trades through us to make sure that they have the proper time and information to make adjustments on their end so that customers that use those products are not adversely affected by the change.

So, once again, MetaTrader will not have midnight maintenance. Everything else, we are working as expeditiously as possible to move midnight maintenance, and while I can’t give a date when it will be completed, I’d say that we’re about 90% of the way there.
  • #3,269
  • Mar 10, 2009 3:40pm Mar 10, 2009 3:40pm
Quoting jleblang
Crassius-

Thanks for your post. Regarding midnight maintenance, we have moved maintenance for the upcoming MetaTrader 4 application launch, meaning our demo and beta (live) environments there do not experience a midnight EST halt for system maintenance. Instead, this occurs at 5 pm EST along with regular global settlement and rollover.

The process of moving the maintenance window for our regular platform is a little more complicated for reasons that I’ll explain here. It isn’t just about Navigator and our retail customers. If it were, this move...
Justin,

All of what you said is fine. However, i cant believe that you are worried about your API traders. It is very simple to change an API and especially one that is connected via FIX. Regardless, as you know i am constantly observing MBT and still thinking about doing business with the company. What concerns me is the ghost trades. Please explain to me and all of us here why this happened and when it will be fixed permanently. I can't imagine having to deal with such an issue as a trader. I realize that this market is a technology driven market and technology is never perfect but I would not and will not trade with a company where this is a known problem (often or not).

All the best!
  • #3,270
  • Mar 11, 2009 5:14am Mar 11, 2009 5:14am
Quoting fxtrader42
Justin,

All of what you said is fine....
Could someone explain what is this "ghost trades issue" ?

Thanks.
  • #3,271
  • Mar 11, 2009 11:57am Mar 11, 2009 11:57am
Could the gentleman representing MB Trading please answer this?

Quoting Hagbard Celine
I've skimmed through this thread for an answer but haven't found it.

From what I remember reading before, MB Trading was supposed to be passing orders straight through. I even saw that Justin (I think that's his name) was saying that the new NFA requirements weren't a big problem for them because they don't have to trade/hedge against their clients and so don't have huge risk on the books like most other Forex brokers.

So I'm a little confused when I went to open a new account and saw this as part of the disclaimer.


MB TRADING FUTURES (MBTF) AS COUNTERPARTY
The foreign currency trading you are entering into is not conducted on an exchange. MBTF is acting as a counterparty in these transactions and, therefore, acts as the buyer when you sell and the seller when you buy. The prices MBTF offers might not be the best prices available.

Although MBTF is the counterparty to each of your trades, MBTF limits risk to itself by instantaneously offsetting the trades and positions it enters into with you with a bank or institutional market maker. As a result, MBTF does not profit when you lose money on a Trade. Rather, MBTF earns commissions on each trade it enters into with you. The amount of commissions charged is disclosed on MBTF's website at www.mbtrading.com/fx/commissions.asp.

I understand MB Trading Futures's counterparty role*

Can someone explain this?
  • #3,272
  • Mar 11, 2009 12:08pm Mar 11, 2009 12:08pm
Hi Justin,
I am having severe issues with the demo FIX environment, last night it was non-functional at the London open and this continued for no less than 5 hours until somebody finally rebooted the gateway, I have 3 concerns.

1. Does not somebody have the responsibility of making sure the gateway is functional at the point of London open?
2. What is the correct channel though MB support for problems like these? As most support does not come online until 8AM EST, where as this is happening at 3AM EST.
3. Am I the only one using this thing? 5 hours is a long time for nobody to notice.
The breaking of a wave cannot explain the whole sea.
  • #3,273
  • Mar 11, 2009 12:17pm Mar 11, 2009 12:17pm
Quoting Hagbard Celine
Could the gentleman representing MB Trading please answer this?
Although MBTF is the counterparty to each of your trades, MBTF limits risk to itself by instantaneously offsetting the trades and positions it enters into with you with a bank or institutional market maker. As a result, MBTF does not profit when you lose money on a Trade. Rather, MBTF earns commissions on each trade it enters into with you.

Similar to what it says above,all client orders must pass through our servers and technically speaking the trades are executed by us as the counter since customers do not have an agreement with the banks, MB Trading does. We are placing the trade on your behalf and matching them with the best available price from our liquidity providers.

So we do in fact offer STP and ECN trading, but there must be someone between you and the bank in order for you to trade with them.
  • #3,274
  • Mar 11, 2009 12:43pm Mar 11, 2009 12:43pm
Quoting Poocher
I posted in this thread about "ghost" orders that can show up on your MB Trading Navigator order platform:

http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=157076

I closed a position that appeared out of nowhere during that same maintenance period because I thought it must of been an order I forgot.
When I closed that position no open or pending orders were left.

Hours later when I woke up the order I used to close the position had become a live position down 60 pips. I waited hoping it would go positive but closed it with a 65 pip...
Let me try and clear this up starting with the name “Ghost Trades” – not sure where that came from, but it’s not an accurate term.

During maintenance each night we have to take all the trades in a batch file done throughout the day and then clear the trades to create a new file and update our customer’s accounts so they have proper equity to start fresh. During this particular event, some of our customers trades were not captured and didn’t clear in the batch leaving customers with open position from earlier in the day that they had already bought and sold. So it’s not like the trades just appeared out of nowhere, these were trades bought and sold by customers during the day and appeared as open trades.

While not ideal and we apologize for inconvenience and confusion, this is certainly not normal and was fixed ASAP. This process is required each night and been the same way for many years, so while it’s not acceptable and wasn’t human error, technology doesn’t always perform they way we hope…just as many of your computers at home or power grids provided by your state have the occasional error or disconnect.

So just as we have stressed in the past and what should be common sense - if you ever see a position that doesn’t make sense or you think you already closed it, then call and let us research for you. DO NOT trade out of it and then ask questions later.
  • #3,275
  • Mar 11, 2009 2:55pm Mar 11, 2009 2:55pm
I'm sorry if this has been addressed before. If so just ignore me.
On my MT4 Demo I see quite alot "bad data" spikes on alot of different pairs. Especially if I scroll back in time. Is this just some relict of the Beta Testing?
Those spikes obviously do not represent actual price action as they do not appear on any other broker at that time.

Here you see 4 of those candles.
Attached Image
  • #3,276
  • Mar 11, 2009 3:14pm Mar 11, 2009 3:14pm
Quoting Tjpld
I'm sorry if this has been addressed before. If so just ignore me.
On my MT4 Demo I see quite alot "bad data" spikes on alot of different pairs. Especially if I scroll back in time. Is this just some relict of the Beta Testing?
Those spikes obviously do not represent actual price action as they do not appear on any other broker at that time.

Here you see 4 of those candles.
Those spikes come though in the API feed as well.
The breaking of a wave cannot explain the whole sea.
  • #3,277
  • Mar 11, 2009 4:13pm Mar 11, 2009 4:13pm
Quoting Craig
Hi Justin,
I am having severe issues with the demo FIX environment, last night it was non-functional at the London open and this continued for no less than 5 hours until somebody finally rebooted the gateway, I have 3 concerns.

1. Does not somebody have the responsibility of making sure the gateway is functional at the point of London open?
2. What is the correct channel though MB support for problems like these? As most support does not come online until 8AM EST, where as this is happening at 3AM EST.
3. Am I the only one using this thing? 5 hours...
Craig:

I spoke with the lead support engineer for the MBT FIX Gateway. The way he explained it to me is that last night's DEMO delay was due to a internal error on our end. We tried rebooting the server and that did not resolve anything. When we investigated it further we discovered it was another issue with demo FIX Gateway server.

The London opening happens at the same time as midnight EST maintenance.
During this time period, we are conducting midnight EST maintenance procedures and all available resources are being allocated to the live environment. That doesn't mean we are ignoring the DEMO midnight est maintenance procedures, because for the most part it is automated. However, if there is an issue in the live environment then DEMO is going to most likely be delayed.

We are always aware when the DEMO environment goes down. Since it is the DEMO environment, we would prefer that you not tie up phone lines as the problem is certainly being worked on. Depending on the issue and whatever else our Ops department is working on at the time, the resolution could be a couple of minutes to a few hours. DEMO must always take priority behind the live environment. Thus, contacting us probably won't help you much as:

1) We are already aware DEMO is down.
2) We can't give an ETA of when it would be up.

However, if you want to check for a general update, the best thing to do is usually to go to the Contact page of the site and initiate an online chat with MBT University, which is fully staffed 24 hours a day from Sunday at 5 pm EST to Friday at 5 pm EST. They are generally aware of the issue. This prevents phone lines from being tied up from people that need to call in for Live trade issues.

On a side note, we are in the process of preparing for the migration of midnight maintenance to rollover maintenance. We do not have an ETA yet, but we will give provide you with advance notification. Does that help?
  • #3,278
  • Mar 11, 2009 4:44pm Mar 11, 2009 4:44pm
Hi Justin,
Thank you for that, there is one bit I don't understand however, you say that the midnight EST maintenance break for the fix gateway occurs at the same time as the London market open. But my understanding is that the London open is happening at 3AM EST, sorry if I have misunderstood. Khody has mentioned the move to rollover maintenance, apparently this will be announced on the FIX/Quote yahoo group.
Regards
Craig
The breaking of a wave cannot explain the whole sea.
  • #3,279
  • Mar 11, 2009 5:13pm Mar 11, 2009 5:13pm
Quoting Craig
Hi Justin,
Thank you for that, there is one bit I don't understand however, you say that the midnight EST maintenance break for the fix gateway occurs at the same time as the London market open. But my understanding is that the London open is happening at 3AM EST, sorry if I have misunderstood. Khody has mentioned the move to rollover maintenance, apparently this will be announced on the FIX/Quote yahoo group.
Regards
Craig
Sorry, I meant some of the European opens, not London specifically.
  • #3,280
  • Mar 11, 2009 10:26pm Mar 11, 2009 10:26pm
Quoting jleblang
Sorry, I meant some of the European opens, not London specifically.
Hey Justin which European opens at Midnight EST?
Just curious...
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