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Considering a career in trading

  • #21
  • Mar 11, 2009 11:07am Mar 11, 2009 11:07am
Quoting hanover
My experience is similar to Doblece's (post #18). Don't know if I've racked up 10,000 hours of screen time, but after 3 years R&D (test driving 50+ systems, making hundreds of demo trades, and spending 5 digits on worthless EAs and education), I still haven't reached the point where I feel that I've attained "conscious competence".

I've achieved everything I want to career-wise, except master forex.

I know that consistent profit is attainable, though. I know a technical trader who makes 5%-10% return every month, and whose account hasn't experienced...

What a surprise... for the number of vouchers you have and the number of posts, I thought you were a very experienced trader, living OFF Forex, with 10k per month profit at least.... Seriously... I thought you were doing a living off forex....

But can you answer me why would you WASTE so much money and time of your life for something that is not working???????????????

JUST because of HOPE????

Why do you keep wasting your money dude.. If it's not working... I just don't get it...

Why do you waste 20,000 dollars of your HARD EARNED money ???????????? And forex is not giving you a return at all.... Just wondering man...

If a very experienced trader like you with 10+ vouchers who really know the market, is not doing money with forex... what is left to 90% of the people that post in this forum???
Why do we fall? "So we can learn to pick ourselves up."
  • #22
  • Mar 11, 2009 11:55am Mar 11, 2009 11:55am
Quoting ForexDude
But can you answer me why would you WASTE so much money and time of your life for something that is not working???????????????

JUST because of HOPE????

Why do you keep wasting your money dude.. If it's not working... I just don't get it...

Why do you waste 20,000 dollars of your HARD EARNED money ???????????? And forex is not giving you a return at all.... Just wondering man...
My eldest son just spent the last 6 years at the City College of NY getting a degree as Jazz Specialist. He plays the Saxophone, Clarinet and Flute.
He bought all his instruments second-hand and quite a bargain, overall around $30000. The cost of each semester (as a foreign student in a public university) was around $6000, summing up around $72000.
That's more than $100000 of hard earned money made while working part-time in several restaurants as a waiter, bus-boy, barman, whatever.
Add to this the cost of traveling and living away of his family, airplane tickets, monthly rent, etc... because it had to be done there. And no week-ends, no extra expenses, etc.
He just took a "sabbatical month" (20 days for a round trip to Europe - that's the only vacation he can take in a year) as his well deserved recompense after graduation.

$20000 is equivalent, and maybe cheaper, IMO, for some years into a Forex career... which on its due time will most probably yield and recover all costs. Hang on to it, Hanover!
  • #23
  • Mar 11, 2009 12:01pm Mar 11, 2009 12:01pm
Everyone get's knocked down once or twice.
The difference is that sucessfull people don't just
keep lying on the floor like a carpet. They get up again.
If you want to be a carpet people will walk over your face.
  • #24
  • Mar 11, 2009 1:08pm Mar 11, 2009 1:08pm
Anything is possible, living off forex is one of them
Trade what you see, not what you think.
  • #25
  • Mar 11, 2009 1:47pm Mar 11, 2009 1:47pm
I think you guys missed the point.
My questions was not abandoning my career to become a forex trader.
I work at a company dealing with Forex ( not a broker). I am learning the job from the inside to a certain amount, but it seems impossible to get advice from the pros here.
What i wanted to know, is the people who do this for a living, meaning that they are either investing for other people, or they have been making a living off Forex for many years; do you consider this profession as one worth getting into. I know its not an easy job, hell if it was easy i would not be interested! I love a challenge, and spending hours analyzing charts and patterns!
But can i expect to make a career into forex trading, provided i invest time, education and practising, or is it just a legal casino industry for the internet gamblers? The line between investing and gambling seems to vanish in Forex.
Also, what were the problems you encountered, psychologically-wise and Analytically-wise ?
You don't have to answer if you don't want to, but please keep it civilized. If you wanna flame someone for his or her opinion, do it in a Pm.
Thank you
  • #26
  • Mar 11, 2009 2:04pm Mar 11, 2009 2:04pm
Quoting doblece
My eldest son just spent the last 6 years at the City College of NY getting a degree as Jazz Specialist. He plays the Saxophone, Clarinet and Flute.
He bought all his instruments second-hand and quite a bargain, overall around $30000. The cost of each semester (as a foreign student in a public university) was around $6000, summing up around $72000.
That's more than $100000 of hard earned money made while working part-time in several restaurants as a waiter, bus-boy, barman, whatever.
Add to this the cost of traveling and living away of his family,...

If you are seriously doing a comparisson between someone paying his studies at a University and someone sitting at home, wasting his money in b r o k e r s, worthless scam systems and speculation... Then, you just lost all credibility for future statements, at least from my part... When you convince people to keep wasting money in forex, then b r o k e r s must be VERY happy with you... Have you ever thought about that?

Wasting money is not a career.
Why do we fall? "So we can learn to pick ourselves up."
  • #27
  • Mar 11, 2009 2:09pm Mar 11, 2009 2:09pm
So why exactly are you here?
  • #28
  • Mar 11, 2009 2:10pm Mar 11, 2009 2:10pm
Quoting ForexDude
What a surprise... for the number of vouchers you have and the number of posts, I thought you were a very experienced trader, living OFF Forex, with 10k per month profit at least.... Seriously... I thought you were doing a living off forex....

But can you answer me why would you WASTE so much money and time of your life for something that is not working???????????????

JUST because of HOPE????

Why do you keep wasting your money dude.. If it's not working... I just don't get it...

Why do you waste 20,000 dollars of your HARD EARNED money ????????????...
Well, you have been kicking around this forum for 2.5 years now... where are you at in your trading?

Why are so many people on this forum so concerned with how other people are doing... seriously, why even care. Just because so and so can do something does NOT mean that you can automatically pick it up and do it too.
  • #29
  • Edited 9:00pm Mar 11, 2009 2:39pm | Edited 9:00pm
Quoting ForexDude
If you are seriously doing a comparisson between someone paying his studies at a University and someone sitting at home, wasting his money in b r o k e r s, worthless scam systems and speculation... Then, you just lost all credibility for future statements, at least from my part... When you convince people to keep wasting money in forex, then b r o k e r s must be VERY happy with you... Have you ever thought about that?

Wasting money is not a career.
Any business has costs in terms of previous education, expenses and operation. Any business can produce losses and become a total waste. Any career that you could invest into which is abandoned or not put into production afterwards is indeed a (relative) waste.

I am not trying to convince anyone, I am just stating my point of view, which is that trading is indeed a professional career which has to be thoroughly learned and mastered BEFORE attempting to risk serious money.
Too bad I came to realize this after almost 4 years, but that's life and one has to move on.

Banks speculate (and employ Forex traders among others), investment funds speculate, that's the system we are into in the capitalistic world. I presume you do not place your own funds in a bank account then? Search YouTube for the "Money as Debt" series... I agree that the whole system based on money is wrong and not pretty at all... and that most probably some day everything will crash and we'll have to get back to bartering. Who knows? At the present moment this is reality. Things have gone too far in the world and we're in for the ride, as long as it lasts.

There's another thread about whether Forex is useful for the society or not, you can search it if it is of your interest. And I do not need anyone else's credibility, I'm just as I am with good and bad things, and I acknowledge that maybe I should have omitted my last comment to Hanover, which only intent was more directed towards persistence towards his goals, than especially being or not in Forex.

I wonder why are you participating in a Forex forum if the above is your sole concept of this business. However...

Quoting ForexDude
I would like to know how to receive the actual indicators, at the same time they are being announced. That way, I will be able to BUY/SELL on time, and know what I'm doing. If I don't know the Actual indicators on time, I don't know what to do and I lose the train.
Now THAT loses MY credibility.
As if it matters, anyway.
  • #30
  • Mar 11, 2009 4:29pm Mar 11, 2009 4:29pm
Quoting doblece
My eldest son just spent the last 6 years at the City College of NY getting a degree as Jazz Specialist. He plays the Saxophone, Clarinet and Flute.
He bought all his instruments second-hand and quite a bargain, overall around $30000. The cost of each semester (as a foreign student in a public university) was around $6000, summing up around $72000.
That's more than $100000 of hard earned money made while working part-time in several restaurants as a waiter, bus-boy, barman, whatever.
Add to this the cost of traveling and living away of his family,...
Here is an analogy I like, as it pertains to physicians, lawyers, musicians, dentists and other professionals (Traders)
My wife is a physician, and earns a nice six figure income. But lets look at what she had to do, to get to the point she is at today.
After 12 years of basic education (I am not sure how the educational system is setup in other parts of the world), she attended 4 years of college. In college, she had to maintain excellent grades just to be considered for admission into Medical School. Medical school, here in the States is 4 years, so far that's 20 years of education. Upon completion of Medical School, she had to apply for, and be accepted into an internship program ( like an apprenticeship ).
Depending on specialty, then a 3 to 5 year residency program. That brings us to about 24 years of education. And does not even touch on the enormous financial commitment.
So what makes some people think, that they can earn a living in a few years, in a field they did not know existed 6 months ago?
Are there exceptions to this? Of course, there are exceptions to everything. I also feel, that someone entering the field later in life, bring with them a certain amount of life experience that can drastically reduce the learning curve.
To succeed at this, you have to be passionate about it. You have to be willing to spend thousands, and thousands of hours studying charts, fine tuning risk allocation and money mgmt. You have to accept, that you will learn more from your failures, than you do from your victories. Stay humble! Success breeds overconfidence. Overconfidence leads to being humbled by the Market

In answer to Forexdude, I make a living trading currency. In the last 18 months, I had 1 losing month (6% because I let my guard down and let a belief, and not my analysis make a decision). My goal is 1/2% a day = 2 1/2% a week = 10% a month. Not difficult to do, its just my job.
Why are you wasting your time here, if you don't believe it can be done?
That strikes me as more nonsensical then someone with a dream, and refuses to give up.

If anyone is interested, here is a link to a post made today by a respected member of the FF community. In the post, there is a pdf with his tax return.
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=157462
  • #31
  • Mar 11, 2009 4:53pm Mar 11, 2009 4:53pm
Quoting ForexDude
Hello people!

I would like to know how to receive the actual indicators, at the same time they are being announced. That way, I will be able to BUY/SELL on time, and know what I'm doing. If I don't know the Actual indicators on time, I don't know what to do and I lose the train. Unfortunately, I don't have bloomberg TV, and internet bloomberg TV doesn't work for me. Also tried IRC newsroom channel, but they hardly ever announce any of the data in forex calendar. Any help would be appreciated!

Thanks!
Rob Booker ( he used to post here on FF, but got tired of all the naysayers),
Gives excellent. free, webinars on FXstreet.com, on a weekly basis.
No indicators, just support and resistance. I attended one this morning, and he gave 2 live calls that produced for those in attendance.
( I should add here, that I am not employed by Rob, nor do I receive any compensation, we are good friends though).
I, as well as many others here on FF would be happy to help ( not mentor) you.
This is not meant as criticism, just advice. Lose the self-defeating attitude.
  • #32
  • Edited 6:18pm Mar 11, 2009 4:59pm | Edited 6:18pm
Quoting ForexDude
What a surprise... for the number of vouchers you have and the number of posts, I thought you were a very experienced trader
FD, I've repeatedly stated that I'm neither experienced nor successful (see here and here, for example). I gave up trading at one point - see here. However, my trading has definitely improved over the last 12 months (more pips won than lost), but the results are still not consistent enough, according to my personal comfort level, for me to trade anything more than demo or microlots. For me, consistency is key.

As for the vouches, I've repeatedly asked that they be withdrawn (see here and here, for example, not to mention all the PMs that I've sent). I don't vouch for anybody myself, to further discourage folk from vouching for me out of a sense of quid quo pro.

These days I buy only EAs that have a money-back guarantee. You might say I've learned my lesson, LOL. I'm conservative by nature; I've only ever traded money, and spent money, that I can easily afford to lose. More recently, I've become much more parsimonious, because I totally agree with you about wastage. Why give any money needlessly to brokers and vendors, while I'm honing my knowledge? (I also waste far too much time answering PMs and posting on forums, LOL).

Why do I persist with forex?

 

  1. Like GreedyPips, I find the analysis totally fascinating, and (for me) mastering forex provides the ultimate test of analytical skill, dedication, patience and nerve.
  2. My background is in math, probability, and software development. I'm been searching a long time for a 'game' that I can play, where I can potentially apply knowledge and experience to stack the odds in my favor. The edge needed is not that great, if it weren't for costs (and possible manipulation), it would be possible to break even using random entries and exits.
  3. I know that success is possible (there are traders out there making 5 figures upward monthly, with some consistency), and forex is a goal that I've set for myself. Will I get there? Maybe, but only if I keep on trying.
  4. Since my analysis become a little more 'discretionary', I genuinely believe that I'm finally making some headway. If I can filter out a few more of my mistakes, I'll move up to minis and attempt to grow a live account.


Quoting GreedyPIPs
But can i expect to make a career into forex trading, provided i invest time, education and practising, or is it just a legal casino industry for the internet gamblers? The line between investing and gambling seems to vanish in Forex.
GP, sorry if I've gotten off-topic, but I know that the answer to your question is that it's possible to make a career out of trading, if you're willing to put in the time and effort. I've seen enough to know that forex is a 'casino industry' where the most knowledgeable 'gamblers' (and the heavyweight manipulators, and brokers) make money at the expense of the hapless wannabes. In 12 months' time I will come back here and tell you that I'm emulating the success of others who are doing just that.
  • #33
  • Mar 11, 2009 5:33pm Mar 11, 2009 5:33pm
hanover thanx for your reply!
Much appreciated!
  • #34
  • Mar 11, 2009 8:17pm Mar 11, 2009 8:17pm
Quoting doblece
Any business has costs in terms of previous education, expenses and operation. Any business can produce losses and become a total waste. Any career that you could invest into which is abandoned or not put into production afterwards is indeed a (relative) waste.

I am not trying to convince anyone, I am just stating my point of view, which is that trading is indeed a professional career which has to be thoroughly learned and mastered BEFORE attempting to risk serious money.
Too bad I came to realize this after almost 4 years, but that's life and...

Well, since you are quoting me from other OLD threads from 2006 with different topics that this one, I see you have really nothing to say here... You are quoting a post from august 2006... You seem to have no arguments... And BTW, few days after that post in 2006, Merlin released the real time calendar... I don't see why would that make you lose your credibility.

You have more than 1000 posts to go through and I have seen MANY MANY mistakes and nosense in your posting... Do you want me to quote your posts from other threads too? I didn't start this, you did, and even failed.

Anyway... You are saying that wasting money in "b r o k e r s" is like doing a University Career, I will let people take their own conclussions.

One thing is for sure, 95% of people lose money in forex, while 95% of people that finish the uni career get a good job...

BTW you, like the other guy, seem to spend a lot of time writing LOOONGGG posts... I mean, don't you have a work? Don't you have to keep trading and studying??? How can you take soooooo much time to write sooooo long posts... strange.

You really spend a lot of time convincing people to stay... Man.. B r o k e r s must be SOOOO HAPPY with you... You are doing them a BIG favor for free (?)
Why do we fall? "So we can learn to pick ourselves up."
  • #35
  • Mar 11, 2009 8:30pm Mar 11, 2009 8:30pm
Not our old "friend" I hope.... The author of the magazine article?

Quoting hanover
I know a technical trader who makes 5%-10% return every month, and whose account hasn't experienced more than 10% drawdown, nor a losing month, across a period of several years (and thousands of trades). [Note to everybody: He wants to remain anonymous, so please don't PM me.]
  • #36
  • Mar 11, 2009 10:19pm Mar 11, 2009 10:19pm
Quoting tdion
Not our old "friend" I hope.... The author of the magazine article?
No, it's not.

Quoting Mysticdiver
......I make a living trading currency. In the last 18 months, I had 1 losing month (6% because I let my guard down and let a belief, and not my analysis make a decision). My goal is 1/2% a day = 2 1/2% a week = 10% a month. Not difficult to do, its just my job.
Nice post, Mystic, it's always encouraging to read others' success stories. Well done!
  • #37
  • Edited Mar 12, 2009 1:38am Mar 11, 2009 10:25pm | Edited Mar 12, 2009 1:38am
Quoting ForexDude
Well, since you are quoting me from other OLD threads from 2006
I didn't check the date of the post, I was too sleepy and in a rush to go to bed before my grand-daughter came home so I don't hear the noises...
I thought it was more recent anyway.

Maybe it's a language issue...

What I meant to say with the "credibility" thing is that your actual attitude towards Forex (though what you state is indeed a fact) contradicts most of your earlier posts and probably even your signature. Your own nickname has "Forex" in it.

What I meant to point out is that I am pretty sure that behind all this "Forex bashing" there is most probably a serious personal issue caused by your discoveries about the difference between "playing with a demo" and real money trading, and that instead of being totally honest and humble about it, you start bashing around and spreading discouragement. I truly believe that you are wasting precious time which you could use either to start learning seriously the whereabouts of the markets, or in any other most profitable venture.

If you really thought it is not worth your time or money, why would you be spending a single additional minute in a Forex forum? To "save the world" and try to take people apart from what they love to do? If you really think that Forex is "full of scammers", why would you spend a single additional minute talking to all those "bad" people?

You've been in this arena roughly one year short of what I've been, at least per your date of registering at FF, so this speaks of persistence somehow. You still want to learn as your most recent posts state it. It is obvious that many of the characteristics of this career still conflict with your most inner beliefs. Why are you still trying? Ask yourself that question, in total honesty. Is it worth it FOR YOU? Make your choice.

On my side, I couldn't care less about my broker's mood (though better have him be happy than not) as long as my withdrawals get processed every month, as long as it will last. Since I started over, I'm working with "house money" anyway (this to answer the "(?)" in your last sentence). And I'm determined to recover all that I lost, which BTW is a much greater amount than the one you stated.

About quoting my "many nonsenses", I would really love it (though this thread wouldn't be the ideal place, I guess), because I am always willing to learn from my mistakes and admit them publicly if it is the case, so not to lead others into error.

Quote
BTW you, like the other guy, seem to spend a lot of time writing LOOONGGG posts... I mean, don't you have a work? Don't you have to keep trading and studying??? How can you take soooooo much time to write sooooo long posts... strange.
LOL. (Does the "other guy" have a name, or nickname at least?)

Sometimes indeed I wonder how do I manage to do all what I do. Maybe I've discovered the secret of stretching time to a max... or maybe I'm just a fast typist (started with two fingers 51 years ago, thanks Dad!).
I don't "take" the time. It comes to me. As should the markets in trading. And what you see here is anyway not even 5% of my daily activities... (roughly an hour a day in average). And is part of my studying time as well.

Once and again: I am not here to convince anyone, I just spend some of my free time around and when I see a question that I think I can answer with my own truth and experience, I just do it. I like to share a fraction of my time with people that are working in the same field, as there's no one in my real local life who trades Forex and sometimes it can become a very lonely and boring job. I like to help others and if any of my past mistakes can be of help for someone else to avoid or at least be advised of the pitfall, I will assuredly try to do my best. I like to give back what I have received so plentifully. And if anyone disagrees with what I say, if I'm misleading, mispelling, mistaking anything, please do let me know and teach me back to the right path. I will be very grateful. I'm no guru, nor I wish to be, and sometimes the vouches can just be a hindrance as it seems we don't have the right anymore to be just plain stupid or wrong at times, as any other human being can be.

Make your choice.
Be completely honest with your deepest issues.
Ask the appropriate questions if needed.
Walk away if it's not worth it.

Here's a post that could help: http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...&postcount=303 and here the complete article referenced: http://www.sfomag.com/article.aspx?ID=907&issueID=55
  • #38
  • Mar 16, 2009 4:37pm Mar 16, 2009 4:37pm
Fx should be viewed as a business,a very difficult one to succede at.

I've been an entrepeneur since a little kid,and jumped right in...never blew up any accounts.

The simple facts are that 90%+ lose money,another 5% or so break even or make a bit at it.

Can you wake up 3 hours early,paper trade,then go to work?
How about doing the same with mini accounts for a time?
Then trade live 100k accounts?

I recommend you try something easier like S&P eminis,or options if you work during the day.

Am proud to say I've talked several people out of wasting $$$$$ and much time/effort & stress trying to succede in FX.
The harder I work,the luckier I get.
  • #39
  • Last Post: Mar 21, 2009 1:59pm Mar 21, 2009 1:59pm
While the majority of people, trained to believe it is the only way, or perhaps not courageous enough to try it themselves, remain wage slaves and work for others, amassing grand degrees and playing office "politics", there is another, smaller band of people who simply go forth on their own and enjoy the fruits of their labors which they DO NOT wish to give to others.

THE INDEPENDENT TRADER --- heck, if youre good enough to do it for others, then youre good enough to do it for yourself, and keep ALL the benefits !

And the wonderful part of it is you really dont need advanced schooling or any of what an EMPLOYER would require, because YOU are the employer !

Before you smirk or wonder, try to imagine the number of retail independent traders that exist at this moment, and while they may never show up on CNBC, they do FAR better than even the wage slaves with super bonusses, simply because of the tax writeoffs available !

I for one, would NEVER return to the work force after 35 years of being on my own --- why on earth should I ? I set my own hours, have NO ONE that i tip toe around, have no knives sticking in my back from my competitors for MY job and enjoy a WAY above average income, that i get to keep because of the tax structure.

Its a consideration you should give some thought to, as its simply WONDERFUL in its execution !

enjoy and trade well

mp
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