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No charts?

  • #21
  • Mar 29, 2007 12:03am Mar 29, 2007 12:03am
May all your trades be blessed. My son and I are going fishing early in the morning and I must get a little shut eye.

Until Later!

Some say "The sky is the limit". I say "I own the sky".
  • #22
  • Mar 29, 2007 12:05am Mar 29, 2007 12:05am
If you are asking me. No.
Just have noticed that the Wiz and Dark both know much, say little.

But lets use some common sense and logic (or will they cancel each other out?) and think about ways to trade w/o charts.

What other senses and tools would come into play?

1. You would need a good memory for past prices. Or in my case, take notes.

2. You would play the fundamentals and know about the relationships within and between the economies of the world that would drive prices.

3.You would pay attention to where orders and money were flowing to and from.

4. A couple of other ideas that I cant think of right now.

So in order to do these things, where would you find this information? Anyone? Anyone? Buhler?

Lou
  • #23
  • Mar 29, 2007 12:07am Mar 29, 2007 12:07am
Buhler? Buhler? Buhler?

I could not resist!

:

Some say "The sky is the limit". I say "I own the sky".
  • #24
  • Mar 29, 2007 12:08am Mar 29, 2007 12:08am
Quoting PipGod
Lou,

What is with the frog? My daughter said it is adorable.


Yeah, I get that from girls all the time.


Lou
  • #25
  • Mar 29, 2007 12:14am Mar 29, 2007 12:14am
My grandma thinks that toad is pretty!:
  • #26
  • Mar 29, 2007 1:59am Mar 29, 2007 1:59am
I'll bet that frog doesn't use charts either!
sxaxlxvxaxtxixoxnxbxyxgxrxaxcxexdxoxtxoxrxgx
  • #27
  • Mar 29, 2007 2:01am Mar 29, 2007 2:01am
Quoting WHTenn
Apparently I am incorrect, but I cannot imagine someone making a trade without looking at a single chart to see where the forex is going. What is your thought Mbqb11? Where can you determine what is going to happen without a chart? I think that this is going to be an interesting thread.
No one can determine what is going to happen; with or without a chart. Successful trading does not require knowing what is going to happen next.

Dial
sxaxlxvxaxtxixoxnxbxyxgxrxaxcxexdxoxtxoxrxgx
  • #28
  • Mar 29, 2007 2:18am Mar 29, 2007 2:18am
Dial, what does successful trading require then? Seems a lot of us don't know the answer to this yet.....

Quoting diallist
Successful trading does not require knowing what is going to happen next.
  • #29
  • Mar 29, 2007 3:15am Mar 29, 2007 3:15am
This (very interesting) topic brings a few things to mind:

Livermore's price recording methods and mentioning of finding charts confusing.

Eddie Toppel's Samurai Trading and outspoken dislike of charts.

The anon. trader in the "Zen in the Art of Trading" chapter of New
Market Wizards who uses no charts.

I would love to be able to trade price only w/o charts but, HOW?
Write down/memorize prices a la Livermore? I don't have any dislike
of charting but I can (sort of) see how doing without them might make things clearer. Any further clarification from anyone on this would be great!

Thanxxx!
FXS
  • #30
  • Mar 29, 2007 3:49am Mar 29, 2007 3:49am
Livermore was trading stocks, not future contracts. His memorization techniques might not have worked in the forex market.

When we talk about eliminating charts and introducing memorization, are we talking about memorizing tic by tic data? That could drive you mad. Charts give you a lot of information very quickly instead of counting backwards in your head.

But then again, what do I know? I haven't made a fortune yet....
  • #31
  • Mar 29, 2007 4:32am Mar 29, 2007 4:32am
Quoting mbqb11
this isn't true , and darkstar can atest to that.
Look at this guy being all humble. Mike here could have been doing it for over a week now. I guess he just hasn't realized it yet...
  • #32
  • Mar 29, 2007 4:56am Mar 29, 2007 4:56am
Quoting WHTenn
Apparently I am incorrect, but I cannot imagine someone making a trade without looking at a single chart to see where the forex is going. What is your thought Mbqb11? Where can you determine what is going to happen without a chart? I think that this is going to be an interesting thread.
While not directly addressed to me, I'll answer it anyway.

First off, as Dial pointed out, one need not have any idea (or care) where price is going to go next to make money. As long as a given set of rules has been proven to provide an edge, it really doesn't matter what the outcome of any particular trade is.

Second, the "price is representive of all available market information" is a decidedly academic interpretation. As Mark Douglas pointed out in the disciplined trader, the last price is simply where two generally inconsistent, emotionally motivated individuals decided to act on whatever whim happened to strike them at that moment. A chart is nothing more then a string of these bad decisions represented graphically.

There is a lot more information available about the markets then is contained in price. If your using any of it as the exclusive reason to enter your trades, then you really don't need a chart. Lou provided a nice list of examples.

Now in all fairness, I keep a chart of every pair I trade open, but only rarely will it have any impact on my trading decisions. I use it more to keep track of how close the market is (or has come) to my entry price and to watch (as opposed to do anything about) the results of an executed trade. I COULD do the same things staring at the bid/ask all day, but since I have a chart doing the work for me, I can fill my time with more productive concerns.
  • #33
  • Mar 29, 2007 5:45am Mar 29, 2007 5:45am
Quoting Darkstar
Look at this guy being all humble. Mike here could have been doing it for over a week now. I guess he just hasn't realized it yet...
LOL of course I have been! When you're taught wisdom, you best learn to live that wisdom

  • #34
  • Mar 29, 2007 6:27am Mar 29, 2007 6:27am
Yes it is possible to trade without a chart. A person who trades on fundementals Does not depend on a chart. A person who trades news, need not rely on a chart. A person who trades with a grid need not rely on a chart. A person with a extordinary memory need not rely on a chart.

The point is that all a chart is, is a artificial memnoic devise to describe the movement of a market through time.

So, If your method (as in Darkstar's stop hunting or Someone else's grid of a maximum and minimum price movement, or someone's decision to go long or short based on a fundemental analysis of what interest rates may do), is not based on Timeframe and or technical anaylsis, no chart is necessary.

There are many ways to trade without a chart.

As to the first post, I know of no reliable get rich quick systems in forex that are not a scam, whether you use a chart or a lucky rabbit's foot. LOL
  • #35
  • Mar 29, 2007 8:01am Mar 29, 2007 8:01am
TA, FA & PA {Political Analysis}

Global events drive Long Term Prices.

When a conflict in an Oil Producing Country is apparent, whould you need a chart to know whether to buy or sell Oil?

My memory is not as good as it used to be but that's ok. Computers are great at gathering and disseminating information into particular points in time. So, I do use charts but it may not always be the sticks that I am looking at. As a matter of fact, they are occasionally squished too small to decipher.
  • #36
  • Mar 29, 2007 8:11am Mar 29, 2007 8:11am
Quoting Bemac
TA, FA & PA {Political Analysis}

Global events drive Long Term Prices.

When a conflict in an Oil Producing Country is apparent, whould you need a chart to know whether to buy or sell Oil?

My memory is not as good as it used to be but that's ok. Computers are great at gathering and disseminating information into particular points in time. So, I do use charts but it may not always be the sticks that I am looking at. As a matter of fact, they are occasionally squished too small to decipher.
LOL that's why we have long term trendlines that stretches across years/months. Long term trendline is a compressed version of all fundamentals.
  • #37
  • Mar 29, 2007 12:49pm Mar 29, 2007 12:49pm
Excellent responses by the great ones.... I have learned something on this thread. Very much appreciated!
  • #38
  • Mar 29, 2007 1:05pm Mar 29, 2007 1:05pm
When I perplex my self with charting info (pretty much constantly )
I try to draw my attention to the price scale on the far right edge of the chart.
It's amazing how this changes my perspective and makes the swelling
in my brain go down!
As a beginner, I'm trying to get into the habit of starting with the price scale on the right of the chart EVERY TIME I look at a chart.
Interesting how challenging this little habit is instill!

Any thoughts or feedback?


FXS
  • #39
  • Mar 29, 2007 1:48pm Mar 29, 2007 1:48pm
I heard a story about a guy that doesn't use charts. All he does is scratch positions that are in the red and add to ones that are in the green.

There are quite a few threads about this on the net (elitetrader, trade2win etc..)
  • #40
  • Mar 29, 2007 2:35pm Mar 29, 2007 2:35pm
Quoting diallist
I'll bet that frog doesn't use charts either!
Good for the frog, but does the duck?

Some say "The sky is the limit". I say "I own the sky".
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