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(can) small accounts make a living ?!

  • #21
  • Feb 27, 2009 9:14am Feb 27, 2009 9:14am
Quoting Dopey
Well said. I hope you have thick skin.

Thank you.

Something tell's me that I am not the one who will need it.

H. Rearden
  • #22
  • Feb 27, 2009 9:41am Feb 27, 2009 9:41am
Hi H. Rearden!

Thank you for opening this thread. my aproach is not based on pips but %.

I try to make a plus of 1-3% every day.
With a small account of 3k only 3% would make it for a living.

Problem with litte movements, its hard to make even 1%.

Better is probably to wait for brakeouts and increase leverage in those cases.

Please give some advice regarding different market conditions, trading techniques and MM.
/ ... clarifying decisions ... /
  • #23
  • Feb 27, 2009 9:43am Feb 27, 2009 9:43am
Ok, Folks -

It seems that within 3 hours of launching the thread, a worthwile amount of members have accumulated and shown some degree of interest in the forthcoming discussion.

Whether the interest will be genuine or remain superficial will imo largely depend on the planned content.

Next week I will begin with a few psychological aspects of money, living of trading and basic amounts necessary for serious trading after the blow-out stage. (yes, I have been there as well - no shame in that)

A clarification for those who wait for a system/method/grail type of thing to appear in this thread: there is none. I will in good time give examples of how I trade and why I trade in a specific manner - but I would always say that it does not constitute a system as such. More about that next week.

Enjoy your weekend.

H. Rearden
  • #24
  • Feb 27, 2009 9:52am Feb 27, 2009 9:52am
Thanks for such a nice and important thread guys.

I had started from a very small account but am regularly adding to it from my monthly savings. My aim is to get a profit which I can make 3 parts of. One-take care of my monthly expenses, Second-to my savings account and Third-leaving in the trading account for compounding. With time I am getting more and more familiar with my system and its profitability which is really important to know when I am planning ahead. Just my humble opinion.
The only way to get smarter is by playing a smarter opponent.
  • #25
  • Feb 27, 2009 9:59am Feb 27, 2009 9:59am
Quote
I would of course expect someone with your amount of posts and vouches to know this aspect - then again, the trouble with the forum rules is that you can exclude less experienced members from participating in a thread with a vouch-hurdle - but not the other way round. This thread is intended for the less experienced members and the traders with ample history should have the grace to wait their turn.

Really? Because you didn't say that in your first post. In fact I don't see anything of that sort anywhere, and this is in "trading discussion" rather than "rookie discussion' so...

Your original post, which is all I fully read, asks a simple question "can small accounts make a living" and then proceeds to say...

Quote
Although this thread is open to discussion by all means, it is mainly constructed to convey some informative content in terms of real experiences and hopefully some decent trading 'wisdom'.
So you asked for trading wisdom. Blind hope isn't wisdom, wisdom is the courage to recognize the situation coupled with the experience to know how to manage it. Hype isn't wisdom.

Quote
I am not sure where the enthusiasm to tell other people how its done in what is not their own thread stems from - but it seems very popular in the forum.
Don't think I've ever told you how to trade, don't think I've ever told anyone how to trade.

However in this case simple math makes the problem apparent. A $100,000 account at 10% per month is $10,000. If you take half for pay, that's 60k a year. 10% per month every month... not easy. Do-able, but not easy. So can a small account of $1000 or whatever turn a similar living? It's just not reasonable to draw from an account that small and expect to make a serious modern world living.

I don't mean that as a criticism, but rather as the beginning of a plan. Blind optimism leads to blind failure. But if you start with $1000 and never draw from it until it's a profitable $100,000, and continue to build it over time... well there ya go. That may take 10 years of course.

No business can succeed without a plan. If you aren't planning, you aren't going to succeed.

So for most people it's smarter to keep the day job as you trade. Save your money, as you get better... put more in. $10k doesn't take long to earn if you save up, and would cut your timeframe down to less than 5 years. It's not like you're going to be profitable your first year or 2 anyway, why not use the time wisely?
  • #26
  • Feb 27, 2009 10:19am Feb 27, 2009 10:19am
looking forward for ur posts ... looks very interesting ...
true , everything is relative ...

a small account will push a beginner trader to achieve more profit in terms of % , since a small % profit will not suffice his living expenses ....
but , greater % of profit comes from taking greater % of risk ...
insufficient skill and mindset will quickly kill the account when posed for taking high risk ...

the only way for a small account trader to survive in the beginning , is to push slowly , try for small % profit first , as skill and mindset becomes better , risk can be increased slowly for a larger % profit ...

just my take
good weekend to all
To Live is the rarest thing in the world , Most people exist , that is all
  • #27
  • Feb 27, 2009 10:24am Feb 27, 2009 10:24am
Hello H.Readen
Thanks for starting this thread.
I have lots to learn from experienced traders.I have been trading on and off for 3 years not making profits but not loosing much either.Because of my full time job i could not trade much.
Now that i got laid off 6 months ago and have no job right now.So i would like to start with $2000.00.I will not be withdrawing from the account for now.
I have lot to learn.So very good topic.
Thanks Readen and everyone else to help all the newbies.
Bhupinder
  • #28
  • Feb 27, 2009 11:33am Feb 27, 2009 11:33am
Hello H. Rearden

Yours thread concept sounds very promising.
If you will show how you can make a living of a moderate account,
it will be a great lesson for many of us- aspiring traders.

Looking forward for your posts next week.

Ronin
the worst horse can be the best one
  • #29
  • Feb 27, 2009 11:38am Feb 27, 2009 11:38am
Hi H,Readen.

I appreciate your desire to write in FF.
I am interested in what you want to write.

As a newbies to FX, I need further advice on:-
1. Method of approaching market. When to stay away and when to stay around in term of hourly (what time/session, asia open, london open, asia close, us open, london close, us close), daily(which day of the week), weekly(which week in a month, W1/2/3/4 and monthly (which month in a year).
2. Emotional preparation in accepting win and loss trade.
3. Money Management :
a. In a winning trade. How many should take out and when.
b. When In should take loss.
c. My daily/weekly/monthly target in term of percentage of my capital.

Please address this in your writing.

Regds/ Pak Yop
  • #30
  • Feb 27, 2009 11:59am Feb 27, 2009 11:59am
Dear Rabid,

Contrary to your understanding, I have at no point asked for any wisdom - however you define it; I have offered to convey it, based on my experience - not yours.

I lead this thread, I decide what I want in it and when I want it to be said. If you want to contribute in an orderly manner, you are welcome - otherwise stay out of it. The thread will not be watered down like so many others by untimely verbal outbursts from supposedly experienced wisecracks.

For future reference, I will not go into any discussions about this - the idea is to give newer traders one view (mine) of how markets can be approached.

If anyone does not like my take on things, leave the thread and if you feel the urge to tell people how it's done, do it somewhere else - preferably in your own thread - you will enjoy all the freedom to do so.

H. Rearden
  • #31
  • Feb 27, 2009 12:13pm Feb 27, 2009 12:13pm
Quote
Contrary to your understanding, I have at no point asked for any wisdom - however you define it; I have offered to convey it, based on my experience - not yours.
I get the point, you post a message asking for comments and wisdom (which you did, your post is there for all to see) then you decide to chase off the people you can't preach to. Sad, but oh well. If all you want to do is teach your particular trading method then why not start a journal instead of a discussion? A discussion is a 2-way event.

Quote
For future reference, I will not go into any discussions about this - the idea is to give newer traders one view (mine) of how markets can be approached.
As if anyone really cares at this point... But oh well. For new people: Do yourself a favor and don't listen to this joker. That is, assuming of course, you don't want to blow your account.

Quote
If anyone does not like my take on things, leave the thread and if you feel the urge to tell people how it's done, do it somewhere else - preferably in your own thread - you will enjoy all the freedom to do so.
I expect you'll last about a week on this forum. Until then, welcome to my block list. No need to reply, I won't see it.

P.S. to new ppl that may be reading: Nobody's going to turn a $1000 account into a million dollars overnight. Any promise to the contrary should be laughed at.
  • #32
  • Feb 27, 2009 12:38pm Feb 27, 2009 12:38pm
Given the right system and execution, anything is possible.

If you have a $10000 account (a small account for sure, but still a decent chunk of change) and trade at 5% risk per trade (high for many, but not unheard of for many too), that's $500. Let's say for example's sake that you're able to earn 3 times as much as you risk per day (definitely a realistic goal) on average. Maybe some days you make 5:1, maybe some you only make 2:1, and of course there are the losing days, but on average you return 3x as much as you risk. That's $1500 a day. Certainly a liveable wage, in even the most expensive of cities.

More realistically let's say you are able to earn 1.5x as much as you risk a day, on average. At 5% risk, you're still making $750 a day, significantly more than the average person makes a day.

To put in my two cents, I work full time and trade the Asian markets at night, obviously a lower volatility market. I scalp the minute charts. I only have $2k in my account (just graduated university last spring), and I trade at only about 1% risk per trade. On average I'm returning about 3-5 times what I risk, so I only make anywhere from $50-100 a night, on a decent night. This isn't a problem since it's not my main source of income, but if I was better capitalized I am confident it could be with time.
  • #33
  • Feb 27, 2009 12:46pm Feb 27, 2009 12:46pm
Hi,

Rabid, I am not sure whether you are on the right track here.

For all I can see, the man has started a thread with the intention to share his experiences in the coming week(s). He has made no claims whatsoever about taking any amount to another. From a very liberal point of view, he is well within his right to structure the thread in the way he intends.

Btw, he never asked for anyone's view and he made very clear that before anything, he wants to see if there is interest from people who wish to listen/read about the topic....that means to me that he does not necessary want any discussion to start just yet.

In fact, I find it quite useful to 'survey' the general amount of interest beforehand - there are so many threads started in FF without any structure or thinking behind it. A total wast of time for future readers in my book.

Your replies seem rather childish and destructive - especially in light of the fact that nobody here has any idea just yet whether the guy has something genuine to say. (He has asked for a little patience as well)

Anyway, not my topic...just had a little browse at the end of the week.

Nice weekend all.

regards
daytrading
Enter Signature
  • #34
  • Feb 27, 2009 12:50pm Feb 27, 2009 12:50pm
Quoting Rabid
Until then, welcome to my block list. No need to reply, I won't see it.
The cyberspace equivalent to "I'm taking my ball and going home."
  • #35
  • Feb 27, 2009 12:51pm Feb 27, 2009 12:51pm
All I can say is . If you don't like the thread content then don't view the thread.

It still amazes me that supposedly successful traders take it upon themselves to watch out for noob traders, in a zero sum game where there has to be many losers to have a win worth the effort.
  • #36
  • Feb 27, 2009 12:54pm Feb 27, 2009 12:54pm
Quoting daytrading
Hi,

Rabid, I am not sure whether you are on the right track here.

For all I can see, the man has started a thread with the intention to share his experiences in the coming week(s)....
If I had to bet my life on who is the more successful trader I'd pick daytrading, it's hard to pick up emotions on a forum but odds are the least combative person is the one who is achieving in life what he set out to achieve...
  • #37
  • Feb 27, 2009 12:59pm Feb 27, 2009 12:59pm
Quoting H. Rearden
Pax,

A lot of realities start of as a 'dream'. Don't let that discourage you. By definition, a dream (in our context) outlines an ideal or aspiration. While awake, one has to evaluate how far (or how close) one is from a possible reality.

H. Rearden
you are right, dreams can become reality. i'll keep learning/ and evaluating and i do because i find forex so fascinating.... if it is only the money and trading for a living, i think i will give up before making it.

lot of posts since i last was here, i'll be on my way.
thanks and have a good weekend all
even with my eyes open i cannot see everything
  • #38
  • Feb 27, 2009 1:01pm Feb 27, 2009 1:01pm
(can) small thread make a fight ?!

Leave it guys .....something constructive please.
The only way to get smarter is by playing a smarter opponent.
  • #39
  • Feb 27, 2009 1:19pm Feb 27, 2009 1:19pm
Don't worry guys.

I wasn't born yesterday and I am well aware how forums work.

By the time I start next week, we will have reduced the group to interested members only which will help the idea of sharing information in the most efficient way.

Until then, keep up the spirit.

H. Rearden
  • #40
  • Feb 27, 2009 1:46pm Feb 27, 2009 1:46pm
Always interested in other peoples views, especially from people that have gone through all the different stages to becoming a professional trader.

docnavy
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