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Where can I learn more about Price Action like those in James16 charts? 9 replies

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  • #19,921
  • Jan 29, 2009 6:12pm Jan 29, 2009 6:12pm
Quoting Jigsaw
http://www.pokerstars.com

On a more serious note I dont have that pair on two different feeds for some reason and thats the third time this week I have wanted to look at it.
EASY that is no gamble either if you treat it like a business. Poker paid my way through college and IMO poker is no different then trading

Sorry HAD to say something, and I bet half those that saw the post rolled there eyes and said here comes Mike

Have a great last trading day all!

Mike

PS The reason I picked the videos I did for guest section is at the time, there were a LOT of posts about recent pinbars, and traffic and the meaning of space. I felt it fitting.

PPS I appreciate the thanks, but all gratitude is owed to James for going along with the requests and creating such a great place(both here and PF). I simply am along for the fun ride, and he leads by example. I'm only ~7 years into this. In another 20 maybe I can have my name as closely associated with his and feel it right.
  • #19,922
  • Jan 29, 2009 6:18pm Jan 29, 2009 6:18pm
Quoting unlv_tj
James, thank you for sharing more information in the guest area....
Don't put yourself down my friend, you are going to need belief and confidence in yourself when the market tries to bite you in the ass, trading will test you in ways that the majority of people walking down the street will never be tested, and furthermore do not want to be tested. Your words betray your uncertainty . . . Be steadfast, for this market is a destroyer of uncertainty.

In life, I have seen people turn their lives around instantly and go from plodding along in an unremarkable fashion to conquering certain things with a zealot like frenzy which would practically shake the dead from their shrouds . .

On a less serious note : Yeah ! I love the Saw films ! But particularly the first one, they get worse as they progress lol. You would practically need to watch them all back to back before going into the cinema to get an idea of what was going on in the last one. They killed off Jigsaw too early, no need to flog a dead horse with a load of other sub-par films afterwords.

Just like in forex . . Every piece has its puzzle . . .

Quoting boomswitch
Just like you, I don't really like the fact that it's not on a well distinguished swing low, but I do like the location (50 and 38 fib, weekly ppz). I might just follow what you say and watch the smaller timeframes tomorrow. When it comes to outside bars I only take A+ setups because I have found out it doesn't work as good as pinbars.
Hmmm, good call. I would also lower my risk and maybe go for .5% or even less if you got in on the 1HR say . . . Because you will have a smaller stop. I would be still looking for something concrete though on the lower TF. I definately too would prefer them at swing lows. Location is indeed good though . . . I like how 12. is running through the middle of it.

Regards,
Jigsaw
  • #19,923
  • Jan 29, 2009 6:26pm Jan 29, 2009 6:26pm
Quoting unlv_tj
James, thank you for sharing more information in the guest area. The work you and Mike do is just amazing. As I have said before, trading has become my optimistic outlook on life. I have little else going for me, but with trading there is a possiblity that someday I might. I might not, but at least it gives me hope, while teaching me to control my own emotions.

If I get this down, and become wealthy, I will owe my enjoyment of life to you two and the other older traders.

Jigsaw. I just LOVE your avatar. I have never seen the movies, but I cannot...
You never seen the movies?I can tell you I am not the kind of guy that is into horror films,my wife is.I have to say I do enjoy these films,check out the first one.Then take it from there.
  • #19,924
  • Jan 29, 2009 6:26pm Jan 29, 2009 6:26pm
Quoting mbqb11
. Poker paid my way through college
What ?! Thats pretty awesome, good for you. Did you approach it like you approach trading ? Really picky and only taking the A+++ poker hands ?

I believe trading and poker are worlds apart, thats just me. We shall agree to disagree my friend. I still enjoy an occasional game nonetheless though. Just between friends.
  • #19,925
  • Jan 29, 2009 6:35pm Jan 29, 2009 6:35pm
Quoting Jigsaw
What ?! Thats pretty awesome, good for you. Did you approach it like you approach trading ? Really picky and only taking the A+++ poker hands ?

I believe trading and poker are worlds apart, thats just me. We shall agree to disagree my friend. I still enjoy an occasional game nonetheless though. Just between friends.
Trading is all about probabilities. We look for good setups, to put us in the best position to win money. It is up to the market after we enter. We use proper money mgmt, to ensure we remain in the game long enough for our edge to play out.

Poker is all about probabilities. We look to get our money in good when the probabilities are in our favor. It is up to how the cards fall after we commit our money. We use proper money mgmt, to ensure we remain in the game long enough for our edge to play out.


And yes my trading and poker game is exactly the same. I lose all the small pots but when the money gets in big, I am almost always coming out on top
  • #19,926
  • Jan 29, 2009 6:35pm Jan 29, 2009 6:35pm
Quoting james16
ok i dont normally announce anything about guest videos but i just posted about 10 from both myself and mbqb11. there are so many i thought i would let you all know.

OMG thanks JIM, Those videos in the guess area changed my mind. I sure those ones you just added, will help improve my trading...

Regards
  • #19,927
  • Jan 29, 2009 6:44pm Jan 29, 2009 6:44pm
hey guys, can i jump in & ask a quick question? we all know by now that the daily & weekly timeframes are the most reliable (& a novice should start there) and that the 1h isn't as so. but how do you all feel about the 4h in general? how confident are you in 4h set-ups? or even 8h? does anyone ever look at the 8h? on that timeframe (& depending on your feed) it looks to me like each bar sums-up a given trading session (ie asian, london, u.s.). just curious, thx.
  • #19,928
  • Jan 29, 2009 6:45pm Jan 29, 2009 6:45pm
Quoting mbqb11
Trading is all about probabilities...

Poker is all about probabilities...

And yes my trading and poker game is exactly the same. I lose all the small pots but when the money gets in big, I am almost always coming out on top
You must be good in poker. I sort of becoming addicted to poker when I came to US lol It feels good when you're the chip leader and you can bully others knowing that are afraid to bet a lot. Anyway, thanks for the vids. Really helpful. especially the breakout trade, like it!

Quoting trujillo1980
OMG thanks JIM, Those videos in the guess area changed my mind. I sure those ones you just added, will help improve my trading...

Regards
It helps me too. It clears things up when I watched video which Jim explains about trading directly into PPZ. That type of entry was really bugging me since I demo J16 stuff.
  • #19,929
  • Jan 29, 2009 6:47pm Jan 29, 2009 6:47pm
I agree with mbqb, very similar. One major difference is, is that poker is a pretty sleezy game. I've meet so many poker players over the years through playing, and they all seem to have one common traite, shadyness. Just when I was starting to get really good, I decided I didn't really want to be a part of this anymore. I'd much rather do something far more respectable, even if its a lot more work that I have to do.

Sorry for the short little rant. I agree with mbqd though, the two seem very similar. If played properly, poker is a very sneaky and smart game in which you can build up your bankroll. It seems to excerise a lot of the same principles of trading, such as picking your spots, and using proper risk management. Its a little harder nowadays with the player pool being far better then it was, but it's still very profitable, if you can stay ahead of the game.

PS it is very refreshing to come here, a place where everyone is mature and respects each other. This is very hard to find in the poker community
  • #19,930
  • Jan 29, 2009 6:47pm Jan 29, 2009 6:47pm
Quoting mbqb11
Trading is all about probabilities....
As you said to me one time - "I may be down in pips for the week, but I am up in percentage terms"

Still not convinced though . . . Im not too great at poker heh
  • #19,931
  • Jan 29, 2009 7:06pm Jan 29, 2009 7:06pm
Quoting dkmb92
hey guys, can i jump in & ask a quick question? we all know by now that the daily & weekly timeframes are the most reliable (& a novice should start there) and that the 1h isn't as so. but how do you all feel about the 4h in general? how confident are you in 4h set-ups? or even 8h? does anyone ever look at the 8h? on that timeframe (& depending on your feed) it looks to me like each bar sums-up a given trading session (ie asian, london, u.s.). just curious, thx.
I like to think of it like this

Price is only as reliable as where it is found. Location is everything. Be it location on the hourly or location on the 3hr/4hr/8hr/ etc. The price we see is simply the aggregation of many actions. If found in the right places, the probabilities raise in our favor.

The reason the higher the timeframe is generally considered more accurate/reliable, is because it contains more information. A 5min pin only has 5mins of information. So how reliable is that to hold over X period of time. Where as a daily bar has 24hours of information. But, that doesn't mean that every daily bar is reliable, just as it doesn't mean every 5 min bar is unreliable.

That is where I put the pieces to this. Location is everything, Price Action bars are simply my trigger.

So it is really up to you what you want to watch, where you are comfortable. Practice and demo, will show you this.

Take care
Mike
  • #19,932
  • Jan 29, 2009 7:25pm Jan 29, 2009 7:25pm
Quoting Chris P
You can get hold of gbpcad on IBFX Bar times are set to GMT as well which I like.

Cheers,

Chris
Missed this post earlier , Bars set to GMT ? Jigsaw also likes

Thanks for the heads up brah,

-Jig
  • #19,933
  • Jan 29, 2009 7:41pm Jan 29, 2009 7:41pm
so good location means swing highs/lows, in space, not in traffic (or breaking-out & away from traffic), & not in a ppz so when price does start heading in a certain direction it has some room to run and we know where it's going to go to (ie run to a ppz or sup/res)?
again, much thx to mike, jim, & all the other senior members here who continue to keep teaching all of us. i made two good trades this week (on my demo) based on what i am learning from you guys.
  • #19,934
  • Jan 29, 2009 7:42pm Jan 29, 2009 7:42pm
Quoting james16
OK ITS BEEN A WEEK OR TWO SO HERE IT COMES AGAIN. this is not directed at anyone in particular because i never know who is demoing and who isnt. its a general statement that i make from time to time to get in the face of those new to this thread.


if you are trading this material (or any for that matter) without proving your competence on demo first your just being plain dumb.

if your trading this material on intraday time frames without proving your competence on demo first your just plain stupid.

having stupiditis is not rare in this business...
Cheers, James.

Lucky here, I realized how important the demo is before I belowing up account, accutally after I made a 8% loss in my second months live trading. 8% is not a big deal, but I really hope I could have started doing demoing much ealier.

I have been demoing PA for the 4ht mth since Oct 08. I have been treating demo exactly same as my live account with some basic MM. Not sure how others feels when they do demoing, but for me I have pressure of doing this , as I have my wkly target, also an oversal target to "trigger" my living trading. Honestly, sometime, very very stressful doing demoing.

I think ur words "cant build demo, cant build live" is absolutely true. Some ppl mentioned to me" trading demo is useless", but I think it's really depends on how individual treating the demo. If ppl have a target, have a plan, and feel stressful when trading the demo, then it's "live demo" which is no different from living trading.

I have a trading mate who currently doing great with PA and boosting his account. I really admire this guy because he has broken the barrier of emotion after less than 2 years trading and started making decent profit in 5 mths after trading PA. for sure, not a lossing mth so far.

My point is: demoing is more than proving yourself, it's about making us emotional free. so I want to suggest no newbie like me should bypass the following several things before going live, sepecially the step 2:

Demo--->Prove urself
Demo--->Kill the emotion
Demo--->Make ur plan
Demo--->Trading live

I dont think I am now the right person to say how important the demo is as Im not yet live trading. But for those who's still struggling with the live trading, TRY DEMO FOR 3 WEEKS, AND U WILL KNOW IT'S THE SAME KIND OF STRUGGLING.

At last, both I and my trading mate want say thanks to James and all great ppls here.
  • #19,935
  • Jan 29, 2009 7:53pm Jan 29, 2009 7:53pm
Though i wholeheartedly agree with James' recommendation of demoing first before going live, I would have to warn newbies not to expect the same success trading live as in demo.

Piproo, I think that trading demo is crucial in perfecting your trading plan and increase your trading discipline, but I dont think that it is a good way to teach you how to control your emotions.

The pain of losing even 100% of your account in demo is nothing compared to losing 5% of your live account. I learned this the hard way myself and I ended up making some really dumb decision that only increased my losses.

My point is, demo to master your method, but don't expect to learn how to control your emotions without putting your own skin in the game.
  • #19,936
  • Jan 29, 2009 7:56pm Jan 29, 2009 7:56pm
your learning a great lesson ad but here is the truth.

the different time frames really dont produce a "better" pin bar accuracy.

its the trader skill level AND YOUR ATTENTION TO REALITY that determines success.

if you get good at taking only the best daily pin bars and you get 2 or 3 trades a month its really no different than waiting for the best 4 hour set ups
and taking 2 or 3 trades a week or 1 hour and taking 1 trade a day.

my bet is that NONE OF YOU that are trading 4 hour pin bars are taking only 2 or 3 trades a week. theres no way your gonna sit and watch a computer 24/7 and take that few trades UNLESS YOU HAVE A HUGE ACCOUNT AND THOSE FEW TRADES ACTUALLY MEAN SOMETHING.

if a great daily set up nets you 100 pips and makes you 10,000 dollars are you going to feel the need to trade all the time? if a 1 hour pin bar nets you 20 pips in 30 minutes and makes you 2000 dollars are you gonna jack around with less than great set ups? hell no your not.

BUT IF THE NUMBERS (ACCOUNT SIZE) ARE DIFFERENT YOUR GONNA BE A DIFFERENT TRADER ESPECIALLY ON INTRADAY .

if you just sat all night waiting for a 1 hour decent pin bar and it moved 20 pips making you 50 dollars what are most people going to do?

1. watch it turn into a loss
2. overtrade and take everything that looks like a pin bar.

why? BECAUSE YOUR TRYING TO CUT CORNERS TO GET TO A PLACE WHERE YOUR TRADING ACTUALLY MEANS SOME REAL MONEY BUT YOUR CUTTING YOUR OWN THROAT TRYING TO GET THERE.

its like working for a paycheck and never really thinking about your tax rate and how much is coming out. then voting for someone that is going to take out more but since you dont pay attention it goes right over your head because its gone when you get the check.

when does it stop going over your head? WHEN YOU HAVE TO ACTUALLY WRITE THE CHECK TO THE IRS EVERY 3 MONTHS AND YOU GET A KNOT IN YOUR STOMACH BECAUSE NOW IT ACTUALLY MEANS SOMETHING AND HAS SUDDENLY BECOME REAL TO YOU.

a couple of times a year i actually impress myself and its usually when someone triggers a painful memory in me

this just did it.

jim

Quoting advfntrader
have been following this thead for a few months now after having a 2 year losing streak and having tried countless systems and mehtods.

was doing so well in the demo until I have let a trade run and its wiped out 10% of my account. so annoyed ! just as well its a demo. I had 3 1 hour pinbars fail today. they just don't seem to work as well as daily's

I am now ONLY looking at daily and weekly charts
  • #19,937
  • Jan 29, 2009 8:02pm Jan 29, 2009 8:02pm
Quoting Lamdun
Though i wholeheartedly agree with James' recommendation of demoing first before going live, I would have to warn newbies not to expect the same success trading live as in demo.

Piproo, I think that trading demo is crucial in perfecting your trading plan and increase your trading discipline, but I dont think that it is a good way to teach you how to control your emotions.

The pain of losing even 100% of your account in demo is nothing compared to losing 5% of your live account. I learned this the hard way myself and I ended up making some really...
Nope, I am not expecting too much from demoing, but I know that if I still getting stressing by trading demo, then long way to go before live trading .

Demo is nothing and demo is everyting

for me, long way to go in forex....lots of resistence infront of me, and hope my support will hold at every level which allow me trailing up my life
  • #19,938
  • Jan 29, 2009 8:23pm Jan 29, 2009 8:23pm
good post pip,

the vast majority of people never get the emotion out of trading. i know i have never been able to. the way i deal with it is simple now but it sure wasnt years ago.

1. large account.
2. small risk percentage.
3. literally watching A trades go by waiting for the A+ ones.

it took me 8 long years to figure this out.

this is me speaking of me and no one else but since the success rate is so low there must be something to it.



Quoting Piproo
Cheers, James.

Lucky here, I realized how important the demo is before I belowing up account, accutally after I made a 8% loss in my second months live trading. 8% is not a big deal, but I really hope I could have started doing demoing much ealier.

I have been demoing PA for the 4ht mth since Oct 08. I have been treating demo exactly same as my live account with some basic MM. Not sure how others feels when they do demoing, but for me I have pressure of doing this , as I have my wkly target, also an oversal target to "trigger" my living...
  • #19,939
  • Jan 29, 2009 8:46pm Jan 29, 2009 8:46pm
hi james, really nice post above,

must say I blew my account once, but fortunately it wasn't my money.
after that, I've been trading demo as well as live. Primarily I trade intraday. Can't sleep well when I have an open position. and I just can't resist to go out and take a couple of trades every day. I don't know where all this rush comes from - emotions?
On demo account I can easily put a swing trade and proper(larger) sl and eventually i am making 200-300 pips a week consistently. As to the live trading my journal shows me that I make on average 60-70 pips per week(at least I am on the + side).
big difference, and I realize that. but still can't do anything with my bad habbit of trading intraday. I am trying to trade smaller accounts on swing trades for my live account, but still greed is asking for more. when I go a little bit more then it's too much emotions again. dilemma...
  • #19,940
  • Jan 29, 2009 9:15pm Jan 29, 2009 9:15pm
Sorry to interrupt. I'm trying to get the concept of confluence down, but I never know how many fib retraces I should make and how far back to go on the chart.

Anyone have any tips for finding good confluences areas and how far back we should look and do retraces? I'm currently trading off the daily chart. Thanks!
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