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Forex Brokers offering Segregated Accounts

  • #21
  • Jan 16, 2009 10:38pm Jan 16, 2009 10:38pm
  •  onu
  • | Joined Feb 2006 | Status: superior senior member | 746 Posts
Quoting James Oak
If you want, here are the facts. NO ONE offers the kind of segregated accounts you are hoping to find. Many people will read this and say "Oh, no, no, nooo! My broker offers me one, yes sireeee! He told me so, and it says it on the website too, see, look..."client accounts are segregated "

[i]Well actually, no, they are not. What in fact they are doing with clients is playing a word game. Client accounts are segregated form the the broker's operating capital, by any civilized country's law this is a requirement....

seems you advertise here for one (ACM) of these 100% insured swiss brokers
  • #22
  • Jan 17, 2009 3:53am Jan 17, 2009 3:53am
Quoting James Oak
Now, let's just add the fact that very shortly ACM and perhaps some other Swiss brokers will be receiving their banking Licence, FYI...in Switzerland, any Swiss bank account holder's funds are insured 100% by the government.
As far as I know Swiss bank accounts are insured only up to a max. of 80k CHF
  • #23
  • Jan 19, 2009 3:23am Jan 19, 2009 3:23am
Quoting pescador
As far as I know Swiss bank accounts are insured only up to a max. of 80k CHF
Swiss state/cantonal banks, such as the BCV (Vaud), BCG (Genève) etc. offer 100% insurance up to CHF. 500,000 on savings and checking accounts. There is a vote coming up this spring to have the non Cantonal banks follow suit, the view is that this should go ahead smoothly as there is no opposition.
  • #24
  • Jan 19, 2009 3:32am Jan 19, 2009 3:32am
could you please remove aleccohfx from the list? those crooks dont exist anymore and closed while still owing clients milions. it makes my eyes hurt to even see their name.
  • #25
  • Jan 19, 2009 3:43am Jan 19, 2009 3:43am
Quoting onu
seems you advertise here for one (ACM) of these 100% insured swiss brokers
I advertise Switzerland! Why not? I moved here and love the life style within the country and the fact that it is well located in Europe, allowing me to travel to most countries by car. Yes, I am with a Swiss FX broker, why not? If you could take advantage of the no tax on capital Gains then I am sure you would as well. The country being so small also means that I am only a 35 minute drive from my broker.
  • #26
  • Jan 19, 2009 5:22pm Jan 19, 2009 5:22pm
Quoting James Oak
If you could take advantage of the no tax on capital Gains then I am sure you would as well.
This is not quite true. Please note that there IS tax on capital gains, if you get qualified as a "commercial" trader (gewerbsmaessiger Wertschriftenhaendler)
It is easy to be qualified as such, if you trade quite often, you hold your trades for less than a year and leverage is involved.
Any kind of daytrading will be qualified as "commercial" and subject to income tax.
  • #27
  • Jan 19, 2009 8:16pm Jan 19, 2009 8:16pm
  •  Tap
  • | Joined Jan 2009 | Status: Risk=not knowing what your doing! | 15 Posts
Why worry and trade spot market in forex?
This is a question more then a statement.
Look at the currency futures, the movements are the exact same.
They even have small e-mini futures for smaller traders?
All accounts are in the clients name within a trust.

I am confused and never understood what is the big attraction to spot fx market vs. fx in futures?

You get better technology, level 2 quotes, multi-bracket orders, segregated account, any time frame you like...and so much more...

not advertising just wondering?
  • #28
  • Jan 22, 2009 8:47am Jan 22, 2009 8:47am
Quoting James Oak
I advertise Switzerland! Why not? I moved here and love the life style within the country and the fact that it is well located in Europe, allowing me to travel to most countries by car. Yes, I am with a Swiss FX broker, why not? If you could take advantage of the no tax on capital Gains then I am sure you would as well. The country being so small also means that I am only a 35 minute drive from my broker.
=
=
Hey James, my heritage is Swiss and have been most interested in re-establishing that connection, even moving there as the tax climate in the U.S. may have just become more hostile that anyone can imagine.

Did you move there from the U.S.? Which Swiss broker do you use?

thanks....
  • #29
  • Jan 22, 2009 10:05am Jan 22, 2009 10:05am
Bankruptcy laws are very complex and differ between countries. Even if your broker states that your monies are segregated, does not mean they actually are. It is basically up to the administrators, they have the power to seize all monies held by the company, in their name or yours. It would then be up to you to argue your case.

LehmanBrothersheld client monies in so called segregated accounts and too my knowledge the chances of clients getting their monies back is well, non existent.

So, be warned.
  • #30
  • Jan 22, 2009 11:36am Jan 22, 2009 11:36am
maybe it’d be useful for you some Multi Account Manager. It allows you to trade many accounts at the same time, then you’ve the chance to win more, or lose, but it’s a great software I’ve been using last days
  • #31
  • Jan 26, 2009 4:24am Jan 26, 2009 4:24am
Quoting andromedaFF
=
=
Hey James, my heritage is Swiss and have been most interested in re-establishing that connection, even moving there as the tax climate in the U.S. may have just become more hostile that anyone can imagine.

Did you move there from the U.S.? Which Swiss broker do you use?

thanks....
Hi Andromeda, I came to Switzerland from the US actually, and from farther afield before that. Yes, things are pretty grim over in the US but on a positive note it looks like there is finally a competent captain at the helm of the USS USA! listen, don't think that Europe has escaped the recession, on the contrary we have not. The saving grace for Europe is the fact that each nation's government has reacted far quicker with salvage packages than what the US did, plus we also have the support of the EU, but we have still felt it, and it will continue throughout this following year. Therein lies the beauty of this market we love to moan about, the liquidity alows us to jump in and out whenever we feel like it, you either buy or sell, so you will either make profit or not, all depends on how you trade. Oh those poor suckers with stocks, shares, bonds whatever, when you start to lose, all you can do is sit and contemplate suicide (Merkle) as you watch the value drop like concrete boots in the Hudson.

What part of CH does your heritage hail from, ever been here? Obviously Switzerland is not part of the EU, but we are part of the Schengen states (bylateral agreements on trade and imigration between different European nations). So far this country has done very well (Yes, even UBS!), most common complaints here are about gas prices maybe going up a few centimes (due to Mr. Gaddafi not being too pleased that his son was arrested in Geneva for misstreating his domestic help at a fancy hotel), and trains running up to 10 mins late, so very un-Swiss!

Seeing as you asked, my broker of a few years is ACM who is based in Geneva. If you wish to know any thing about them, then go ahead and post your questions and I will answer. In the manner of all good Swiss I will remain neutral, and transparent, by informing you that there are also another 2 major brokers in this country (MIG and Dukas), any others based here will soon be doing a vanishing act as they are unable to follow the new requirement to have CHF 20 million net capital in order to receive the banking licence, new imposition on FX brokers in this country.

PS, double checked regarding tax on capital gains, and what I claimed was correct, as long as you are trading for yourself, there is no tax.
  • #32
  • Jan 26, 2009 4:47pm Jan 26, 2009 4:47pm
Quoting James Oak
Hi Andromeda, I came to Switzerland from the US actually, and from farther afield before that. Yes, things are pretty grim over in the US but on a positive note it looks like there is finally a competent captain at the helm of the USS USA! listen, don't think that Europe has escaped the recession, on the contrary we have not. The saving grace for Europe is the fact that each nation's government has reacted far quicker with salvage packages than what the US did, plus we also have the support of the EU, but we have still felt it, and it will continue...
=
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Heritage: The few relatives I had left escaped Germany and resided in the German quarter of Switzerland. The rest were all murdered in Hitlers National Socialist Germany.

You mentioned a competent leader here in the US. Are you kidding? Obviously you have not seen: obamacrimes.com there is a reason that Bill Clinton called BO just another Chicago thug. According to BO's own grandmother she was present at his birth in KENYA which according to our Const. Article 2 Sect 1 he is not eligible to hold the office of pres. and he has spent a great deal of money keeping that secret. And his grandmother? Oh she is dead now. How conveinient. And BO is promoting National Socialism... and he is calling for a civilian security force accountable only to him.... so did Hitler, get it? He also intends to tax the hades out of the people who create jobs, and the wealthy / productive people are looking to flee the US. Others such as Col. Holister are suing asking the Supreme Court to rule on whether it is now illegal for ANY US military person to obey ANY order from the usurper BO who is not eligible.

There are other suits pending, and if it is found that BO is indeed not qualified and he does not step down then we have a Constitutional Crisis and the military will not obey any orders from him. The joint chiefs may disavow any relavance to the pres. Civil war could break out. If it is found that BO is not eligible and does step down then a race war will break out.
I BO is ruled that he is eligible then civil war may again break out as enough people believe his grandmother and the Kenya ambasidor that BO was born in Kenya.

On the other hand if BO survives the challenges and completes his National Socialism agenda a culture war could break out.

Any way you cut it the US does not have a very good future.

Unless of course BO apologizes to the US and voluntarily steps down.

You say Bush was not competent? Sure he made mistakes but he has kept us from attack for the last 7 years.

Bottom line: with BO in power, productive people are looking to other countries to reside.
  • #33
  • Jan 27, 2009 3:53am Jan 27, 2009 3:53am
Quoting James Oak
PS, double checked regarding tax on capital gains, and what I claimed was correct, as long as you are trading for yourself, there is no tax.
You can double check it here. The official document from the Swiss Federal Tax Administration about the definition and taxation of commercial (with tax obligation) vs. noncommercial (tax free) trading activities. It is quite a restrictive differentiation that makes it difficult to get away without taxes on capital gains. Trading for yourself is not enough to be identified as a noncommercial trader.

http://www.estv.admin.ch/d/dvs/kreis...8-D-2005-d.pdf
  • #34
  • Jan 27, 2009 10:04am Jan 27, 2009 10:04am
  •  onu
  • | Joined Feb 2006 | Status: superior senior member | 746 Posts
Quoting andromedaFF
=
=
Heritage: The few relatives I had left escaped Germany and resided in the German quarter of Switzerland. The rest were all murdered in Hitlers National Socialist Germany.

You mentioned a competent leader here in the US. Are you kidding? Obviously you have not seen: obamacrimes.com there is a reason that Bill Clinton called BO just another Chicago thug. According to BO's own grandmother she was present at his birth in KENYA which according to our Const. Article 2 Sect 1 he is not eligible to hold the office of pres. and he has spent a great...

pretty sick off topic post
  • #35
  • Jan 27, 2009 11:33am Jan 27, 2009 11:33am
Mike,

I am with you people keep associating size with quality and the fact is that size has nothing to do with quality of service or being reputable we can go down the list of "large" funds and companies that were scams and ripoff artist. Do better by yourself people look for quality.

Quoting mike999
This is a joke right?

If I look to keep my money safe, I go to a bank.

If I look not to lose trading forex..... I stay away from FXCM.

FXCM must have the worst reputation in the market, it can't even get a decent PR team to clear its name. I would rather give my money to a mexican monkey, a blind accountant, or even a broke crackhead than giving it to FXCM.

Yeah, Im funny.....
  • #36
  • Jan 28, 2009 5:20am Jan 28, 2009 5:20am
Quoting pescador
You can double check it here. The official document from the Swiss Federal Tax Administration about the definition and taxation of commercial (with tax obligation) vs. noncommercial (tax free) trading activities. It is quite a restrictive differentiation that makes it difficult to get away without taxes on capital gains. Trading for yourself is not enough to be identified as a noncommercial trader.

http://www.estv.admin.ch/d/dvs/kreis...8-D-2005-d.pdf

  1. Dear Fisherman,

    Looking at your link, which required translating, here is the condensed relevant information:

    2. Vorprüfung: Preaudit to see if eligible for no CGT
    If your investment that is eligible to CGT is kept for more than 1 year, then it becomes tax free.
    Will not be taxed if trading more than 5 times the value of your complete assets
    You are not dependant on income from trading, i.e. you have a main job
    Trading in a market that is open to the public, such as FX is, i.e. no insider trading
    Your investment (trading funds) are not received via a line of credit, i.e. you didn’t take out a bank loan so as to trade (Leverage is seen as a line of credit)

    Finally, Swiss banking secrecy does exist and is respect by the authorities here (The US can vouch to this, remember UBS refusing to give names?) so, information will never come from your broker.

    Now you see why I !

On another note, that was some very dark response from AndromedaFF, honestly, try and keep the comments neutral. Like I offered to you before, if you want to know about my broker ACM I will be more than glad to answer any questions, or for any other Swiss broker for that matter. Thanks all.

  • #37
  • Jan 28, 2009 5:28am Jan 28, 2009 5:28am
It should read "Leverage is NOT seen as a line of credit", mea culpa .
  • #38
  • Edited 12:54pm Jan 28, 2009 11:33am | Edited 12:54pm
Quoting James Oak
Will not be taxed if trading more than 5 times the value of your complete assets
This is a bad translation. The original text says: The transaction volume (the sum of all buys and sells) for the whole calendar year should NOT be bigger than 5 times what your equity in securities and cash was at the beginning of the year (in order to be eligible for the qualification of a tax-free investor)

This means if you start say with CHF 100,000 at the beginning of the year and you buy and sell 2.5 lots within one year your transaction volume for that year is alredy 5 times your original equity (500,000)
So trading 3 standard lots A YEAR with an original equity of 100,000 makes you subject to tax obligation on capital gains.

Daytrading is clearly disqualified here. Buying and holding shares for at least a year without leverage is for example what is qualified here as noncommercial, tax-free investment.

The rest of your translation is also far from correct.
And yes, the way it is defined in this document, leverage is "fremdfinanziert"; i.e. a transaction "financed through a 3rd party"
It is not talking about "a line of credit"

Get a better translator; yours is clearly not sufficient.

I would not trust too much Swiss banking secrecy either: it is not that strict anymore as it used to be. So at the moment you withdraw a bigger amount to your bankaccount you can be discovered by the authorities. Banks HAVE TO report any "suspicious" transactions to the authorities. The era of George Bush's antiterror, anti money laundering etc. monitoring has arrived also to Switzerland.

regards
pescador
  • #39
  • Jan 30, 2009 7:25am Jan 30, 2009 7:25am
Quoting pescador
This is not quite true. Please note that there IS tax on capital gains, if you get qualified as a "commercial" trader (gewerbsmaessiger Wertschriftenhaendler)
It is easy to be qualified as such, if you trade quite often, you hold your trades for less than a year and leverage is involved.
Any kind of daytrading will be qualified as "commercial" and subject to income tax.
iHMMMM, Pescador, creo que te confundes entre teoria y factual! This may be true to a very minute point, how so? Well, if you think that this theoretical regulation was being enforced, Switzerland would not be known for 1. no tax on capital gains, and 2. banking secrecy, please, post Bush or post anybody, the Swiss will set their own rules and standards thank you, unlike many other countries who like to follow the US way. Like the other guy said, UBS was large enough to stand up to the mighty US Gov, FYI, the only way information would be given out would be by a request from INTERPOL or if a criminal activity was being suspected, with enough proof. Making a couple of thousand profit wouldn't even rustle the waters of lake Léman! Banks here would not jeopordise their bread and butter. So, in theory perhaps, in reality not at all.
  • #40
  • Jan 30, 2009 8:00am Jan 30, 2009 8:00am
Quoting JoeyG
iHMMMM, Pescador, creo que te confundes entre teoria y factual!
Yo no lo creo. Me informé sobre el asunto.

It depends whether you live in Switzerland or not. Even within Switzerland there are differencies between cantons.
If you live in Switzerland, yes, this regulation IS enforced. This is a relatively new regulation (from 2005) so there is still a lot of old or false information going aroung through the internet.
Yes, if you live outside Switzerland you will never have to pay these taxes on capital gains. Nor will your Swiss bank reveal informations about you and your account to foreign authorities (except for governments within the EU, notably Germany).
So it is safe to use Swiss brokers with Swiss banks in this way from a foreign country.
But if you live within Switzerland, the practice is different.
You are subject to three types of taxes: federal, cantonal and communal.
This regulation I posted is the federal one, that is enforced in all Switzerland.
The same regulation exists also on the cantonal level. If you are interested I could post the official link to some of those cantonal regulations as well.
There are some (few) exeptional cantons that do not enforce this rigorously (or at all). If you happen to know which they are, please post it here, I also would like to know. The overwhelming majority of them do enforce it.
The banking secrecy does not really protect you against the Swiss authorities. So if you live within Switzerland you'd better beware.
Of course you can try to hide it, it is your responsability.
But you have to know that you are doing something illegal, that means you are taking some considerable risk.

It is understandable though why Swiss brokers often spread semi-true information regarding this issue.
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