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THV system, final edition

  • #781
  • Edited 12:08pm Dec 2, 2008 11:46am | Edited 12:08pm
Quoting TradeWell
This is based on the fractal system explained by Erol Bortucene. If you know that system, please let me know if I do not understand it properly.
No I don't... just downloading the pdf to see what it says (I assume it is the "EuroFractal system"?) Reading... seems to be the "normal" trading of a fractal breakout... if so, it should work with pending orders, not market.
As I don't know on which timeframe you were operating, I couldn't tell what happened there, but maybe we can work it out?

Sorry for the off-topic...

Edit: I'll assume you were using M1 as in none of the other timeframes could 1.2700 touch candle be considered as a fractal... and maybe not either in M1 as the next candle open (and high) is barely one pipette (0,00001 pip) lower so it wouldn't be a perfect fractal. Then also, it didn't retrace to at least a pivot level, just consolidated a bit and went to the next fractal (which this one is more credible) which then retraced fully to the pivot level (R1) (and I assume that this is when it took away your stop) where you should have opened the pending order to be fired off at its break (1.2706)...
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: fractalbreak.gif Size: 15 KB
  • #782
  • Dec 2, 2008 12:00pm Dec 2, 2008 12:00pm
Hello,

I have add two indis in your system.
I think they are usefull aditions.
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/a.../THVSYSTEM.gif

a. panca eagle

b.candle time

Download the aditional indis and original sys at:

http://www.forexsharing.com/964234
Learn something difficult and earn real money for ever, a lot.
  • #783
  • Dec 2, 2008 12:03pm Dec 2, 2008 12:03pm
Quoting doblece
No I don't... just downloading the pdf to see what it says (I assume it is the "EuroFractal system"?) Reading... seems to be the "normal" trading of a fractal breakout... if so, it should work with pending orders, not market.
As I don't know on which timeframe you were operating, I couldn't tell what happened there, but maybe we can work it out?

Sorry for the off-topic...
lol, well I don't think we are cluttering this thread too much as the posts are a bit sparse lately. Nevertheless, I am using THV in conjunction as confirmation of fractals.

I mainly watch the 5 min TF. For fractals I use the 1 min chart and will look at it when it seems likely a fractal is developing. Everything looked good and the PA did carry through as it "should", but the temporary retrace went further than expected. This was around 8 am ET. And yes, I did use one of those "pending" or entry orders.
  • #784
  • Dec 2, 2008 12:10pm Dec 2, 2008 12:10pm
Added a chart to my above post, check it to see if it was the case...
  • #785
  • Dec 2, 2008 12:28pm Dec 2, 2008 12:28pm
Quoting doblece
Edit: I'll assume you were using M1 as in none of the other timeframes could 1.2700 touch candle be considered as a fractal... and maybe not either in M1 as the next candle open (and high) is barely one pipette (0,00001 pip) lower so it wouldn't be a perfect fractal. Then also, it didn't retrace to at least a pivot level, just consolidated a bit and went to the next fractal (which this one is more credible) which then retraced fully to the pivot level...
Right you are. On further inspection that is a questionable fractal, if at all. However, I don't normally look for a bounce off pivot when trading fractals - should I?
  • #786
  • Dec 2, 2008 12:34pm Dec 2, 2008 12:34pm
Quoting TradeWell
Right you are. On further inspection that is a questionable fractal, if at all. However, I don't normally look for a bounce off pivot when trading fractals - should I?
It will depend on how near the pivot is most probably... also, I noticed that he mentions key levels 00-20-50-80... this should definitely be taken into account as for a retrace back especially if your stop is the same amount (1.2700 ---> 1.2680 = 20 pips) and set the stop below that nearest key level just in case (as it did go back to it as well ).
  • #787
  • Dec 2, 2008 12:45pm Dec 2, 2008 12:45pm
Quoting doblece
It will depend on how near the pivot is most probably... also, I noticed that he mentions key levels 00-20-50-80... this should definitely be taken into account as for a retrace back especially if your stop is the same amount (1.2700 ---> 1.2680 = 20 pips) and set the stop below that nearest key level just in case (as it did go back to it as well ).
Great point -makes alot of sense.
  • #788
  • Dec 2, 2008 12:49pm Dec 2, 2008 12:49pm
Here another view, assuming that your entry point was good (S/R Barry indicator indeed takes that one as a valid fractal), and based on the above key levels issue.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: fractalbreak2.gif Size: 13 KB
  • #789
  • Dec 2, 2008 1:06pm Dec 2, 2008 1:06pm
Quoting doblece
Here another view, assuming that your entry point was good (S/R Barry indicator indeed takes that one as a valid fractal), and based on the above key levels issue.
That would validate my thought from the beginning - bad stop loss. That's what I get for trading before coffee!
  • #790
  • Dec 2, 2008 1:15pm Dec 2, 2008 1:15pm
Quoting traderathome
SDX-SweetSpots_v4:
Hi traderathome, could it be possible for you to modify the code of this indicator so it can work on 5-digit terminals? I tried to do it myself with the "p๒int*10" instruction but it didn't work so maybe there's something else to do that I don't know... Thanks! (it's really easier than drawing the lines by hand, lol... but as it is now, it shows for me at 0-2-5-8 and 10 pips levels hahah!)
  • #791
  • Dec 2, 2008 2:53pm Dec 2, 2008 2:53pm
Hi!!,

Who trade EUR/GBP? .
Because I read you get profits with that currency. Its True?
And in the EA Championship the best traders uses EUR/GBP,
What does not kill me makes me stronger. Friedrich Nietzsche,
  • #792
  • Dec 2, 2008 7:07pm Dec 2, 2008 7:07pm
Quoting ikki
Hi!!,

Who trade EUR/GBP? .
Because I read you get profits with that currency. Its True?
And in the EA Championship the best traders uses EUR/GBP,
I've never liked this pair much (too slow moving for my taste) but it is true that, being much less volatile and thus more stable, it can give good results at a range trading for example.
  • #793
  • Dec 2, 2008 7:19pm Dec 2, 2008 7:19pm
Quoting doblece
It will depend on how near the pivot is most probably... also, I noticed that he mentions key levels 00-20-50-80... this should definitely be taken into account as for a retrace back especially if your stop is the same amount (1.2700 ---> 1.2680 = 20 pips) and set the stop below that nearest key level just in case (as it did go back to it as well ).
Well then I think you have improved the Euro Fractal method. I went back to Bortucene's booklet and found this statement:

I will go long or short with a stop of 15 pips, and take profits at the next key level which is always 20 or 30 pips profit. This means that I always have a positive risk/reward ratio. Even if the fractal breakout system is wrong 50 percent of the time, then I am still profitable.

You pointed out something, albeit indirectly, I knew all along which is 15 pips is not enough. I thought I was covered with 20 but now I know that it's not the number of stop pips that matter as much as where the stop is placed, relative to s/r's. The next question would be, with the changed stop rule is the r/r worth it? I suppose so if I could enter close to the end of the little retrace after the break.
  • #794
  • Dec 2, 2008 8:07pm Dec 2, 2008 8:07pm
Quoting TradeWell
now I know that it's not the number of stop pips that matter as much as where the stop is placed, relative to s/r's.
Indeed. You could also use a higher TF candle high or low (not less than M15 IMO... unless it's one of those long runners ) Or SAR (I use SAR 0.04-0.2 for trailing on M5 three candles behind the current = M15/M20 approximatively) But S/R and key levels (BTW there are other two key levels IMO, 66 and 33, check it out on EUR/USD last action... especially 66)

Now if you want to stick by a TP, of course his rules have a safer R/R. Depends also on if you can monitor the trade or not.

Quoting TradeWell
The next question would be, with the changed stop rule is the r/r worth it? I suppose so if I could enter close to the end of the little retrace after the break.
You don't have to close the trade after reaching the next level... you could trail stops or any other method to maximize the profits. Now if you enter at the bottom (or top) of the retrace, and the distance in pips is short, you are also risking a rebound back in the retest... in any case always check if you are too much close to any S/R or level, to keep out of non secure options.

As to R/R... be sure to always adjust your maximum stop to your MM rules. And let profits run. I've found that on M1 stops have to be set to entry as soon as it's possible, depending of course on the PA (if it is being very volatile or not), I trade on M5 principally and set it to entry at +7/10pips if counter-trending (I can always re-enter at a better price eventually), and around +20 if going with the trend.
  • #795
  • Dec 2, 2008 8:35pm Dec 2, 2008 8:35pm
Quoting Blazer
Hello,

I have add two indis in your system.
I think they are usefull aditions.
Thank you, Blazer.

However, I am certain that one of Cobra's ideas behind the creation of the THV system has been to simplify the system trying to get as many clutter out of the charts... and there's already a candle time included (though it is good to see which one will be finally the better).

On the other hand, Panca Eagle is a breakout system, I don't see how it could fit at all with THV but if it is useful for your own trading, just go on!
  • #796
  • Dec 2, 2008 10:47pm Dec 2, 2008 10:47pm
Quoting doblece
Thank you, Blazer.

However, I am certain that one of Cobra's ideas behind the creation of the THV system has been to simplify the system trying to get as many clutter out of the charts... and there's already a candle time included (though it is good to see which one will be finally the better).

On the other hand, Panca Eagle is a breakout system, I don't see how it could fit at all with THV but if it is useful for your own trading, just go on!
Right doblece, our objective is to have the chart as clean as possible and we should not add any more indicators to the official template.

Why making things more complicated than they are?

In the V2 version we are working to get the chart with even better visibility than the V1 has.

But of course anyone can add his favorite indicator if it helps, nothing bad on that.

BTW, sorry for my actually absence, a friend of mine needs some help in an emergency but I will be back pretty soon.
  • #797
  • Dec 2, 2008 10:56pm Dec 2, 2008 10:56pm
Aye, Life is so simple. It's just that the human element comes into play and complicates things.
"Diversification is an excuse for a lack of talent" ~FXC
  • #798
  • Dec 2, 2008 11:25pm Dec 2, 2008 11:25pm
Quoting doblece
Hi traderathome, could it be possible for you to modify the code of this indicator so it can work on 5-digit terminals? I tried to do it myself with the "p๒int*10" instruction but it didn't work so maybe there's something else to do that I don't know... Thanks! (it's really easier than drawing the lines by hand, lol... but as it is now, it shows for me at 0-2-5-8 and 10 pips levels hahah!)
Doblece, if you post an indicator, hopefully a very simple one, that works on both, what(?) 4 and 5 digit, terminals, then very likely I can expand SweetSpots accordingly. I just need to examine code of such an indicator to see how it works, and then cut/paste/modify to suit such code into SweetSpots.
  • #799
  • Dec 3, 2008 12:20am Dec 3, 2008 12:20am
Quoting traderathome
Doblece, if you post an indicator, hopefully a very simple one, that works on both, what(?) 4 and 5 digit, terminals, then very likely I can expand SweetSpots accordingly. I just need to examine code of such an indicator to see how it works, and then cut/paste/modify to suit such code into SweetSpots.
It would have to be one that uses "Digits" and "Point"...
I have been able to modify simple ones that used only "Point" with the instruction "Point * 10" (as it refers to the smallest point) but I examined this code and is is quite complex because it also uses "Digits" and a formula that first state the digits as a whole (without the decimal point) and just afterwards another statement to put the decimal point back and there I got lost

I have tried several options to modify "Digits" but all of them give me a blank screen though they compile ok. I guess though that the platform doesn't accept a fractional "Point" value (I tried "Digits/10" which would give the correct "normal" price), I also tried modifying in the settings, but then there is a problem with the "00" as I can't specify "000", but I can specify 200 instead of 20, 800 and 500... As they seem to be related one to another, this gives me a different set of lines, but every 100 pips... and if I set "100" as the first line, I don't get anything on screen. (Oops just saw the label says "end 2 digits"... is there a way to make the indicator accept the final three digits instead? maybe this would solve the problem in an easier way...).

I have searched among my indicators and don't have any that conforms to what is needed here. In fact I have had to discard a few that presented the same problem, except for the one I could fix with "Point*10".

I think that maybe if the option is set to place 3 last digits it will work.
  • #800
  • Dec 3, 2008 12:43am Dec 3, 2008 12:43am
Quoting doblece
It would have to be one that uses "Digits" and "Point"...
I have been able to modify simple ones that used only "Point" with the instruction "Point * 10" (as it refers to the smallest point) but I examined this code and is is quite complex because it also uses "Digits" and a formula that first state the digits as a whole (without the decimal point) and just afterwards another statement to put the decimal point back and there I got lost

I have tried several options to modify "Digits" but all of them give me a blank screen though...
There is this line in the code:
int i, ssp, ssp1; //choosing "int" instead of "double" drops decimal portion of value

Try changing from "int" to "double:
double i, ssp, ssp1; //choosing "int" instead of "double" drops decimal portion of value

Also, there is no safeguard in the code if you do this that it will not take more than two number entered, so it is worth trying and then entering either last two, or last three digits to see what happens. Since I do not have a 5-digit platform, there is no way for me to test such code.
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