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THV system, final edition

  • #661
  • Edited 1:42pm Nov 26, 2008 1:16pm | Edited 1:42pm
Quoting TradeWell
Looking at your chart I noticed a difference in DP. Yours is 2953, cobra's is 2971, and mine is 2982, which matches actionforex.com. I am assuming the difference is in the settings. I use -2, 0 which seems to get it to match the fib pivots on actionforex. Is there a reason you two set yours differently? I know you have gone back and forth with explanations, but in the end shouldn't they match actionforex's pivots?
Being on EST myself, if I want data points to be midnight to midnight EST, since MT4 server is GMT +2 hours, I have to use +2, -5 settings (EST is GMT -5 hours). That yields the 1.2953 central pivot value. If I want to leave well enough alone and just go with Metaquotes server (midnight to midnight using GMT +2 hours) then I can use +2, +2 settings, or 0, 0 settings, which yield the 1.2982 central pivot value.

IMHO this is all just splitting hairs anyway. In some previous post CobraForex suggested EST was maybe the best time for data point collection (midnight to midnight EST), which for me is the 2, -5 setting. For all we know, the biggest money traders may not even be using the Fib pivots, but the Day pivots instead!

For me to get the 1.2971 central pivot value, then I have to use settings +2, 0 which is like saying I want to shift from Metaquotes server time data point collection, to London time instead! Ok, maybe that is what we all should be doing, if we want to be "on the same page"?
  • #662
  • Nov 26, 2008 3:16pm Nov 26, 2008 3:16pm
Hi Cobra,

I have been lurking for a few days, read all the post and like what I have seen. But to be hoest I am now lost on where the latest version is. I did download and just installed the version from post #1 and it seems ok BUT I do recall many updates allong the way.

I feel I may be missing a few things allong the way. Can u either on the next update or when u have down time from trading ensure all latest indicators are in one zip file on the forum of ur web site.

Thks for all ur work and the assistance of the other members. As a past programmer it does take some time to get the code right. Much appreciated.

OJ
  • #663
  • Nov 26, 2008 3:29pm Nov 26, 2008 3:29pm
Quoting traderathome
Being on EST myself, if I want data points to be midnight to midnight EST, since MT4 server is GMT +2 hours, I have to use +2, -5 settings (EST is GMT -5 hours). That yields the 1.2953 central pivot value. If I want to leave well enough alone and just go with Metaquotes server (midnight to midnight using GMT +2 hours) then I can use +2, +2 settings, or 0,...
This has been bugging me for a while (should it?). I am never sure if I am dealing with the right pivots. It creates more hesitation to enter a trade.

My understanding is that pivots should be calculated at close of market ET. That then would be 5 pm, or 2200 GMT. That is why I set mine to -2, so it would calculate based on that time.

Investopedia says:
Because the forex market is a 24-hour market, there is often confusion about what time of day to use when calculating the closing price of one trading session and the opening of another. The generally accepted times used when calculating pivot points is 23:59 GMT for the close of a trading session, and 00:00 GMT for the opening of the new session.

Actionforex website changes at 5pm ET, 2200 GMT.

At forex-internet.com: The Forex day starts with the opening of Sydney’s (Australia) Forex market at 5:00 PM EST (10:00 PM GMT / 22:00), and ends with the closing of New York’s market, a day after, at 5:00 PM EST (10:00 PM GMT / 22:00).

I know there are variations from broker to broker, but I think more of the discrepancies lie with these close times. There has to be a commonly used time or else we all have different pivots, then what's the point of having them?


edit: ak4x also uses 5pm est and has just posted pivots on the EURUSD thread
  • #664
  • Nov 26, 2008 3:37pm Nov 26, 2008 3:37pm
Quoting onejamlove
Hi Cobra,

I have been lurking for a few days, read all the post and like what I have seen. But to be hoest I am now lost on where the latest version is....
Go to cobraforex.com where you can download everything.
  • #665
  • Nov 26, 2008 4:00pm Nov 26, 2008 4:00pm
Quoting TradeWell
This has been bugging me for a while (should it?). I am never sure if I am dealing with the right pivots. It creates more hesitation to enter a trade.

My understanding is that pivots should be calculated at close of market ET. That then would be 5 pm, or 2200 GMT. That is why I set mine to -2, so it would calculate based on that time.

Investopedia says:
Because the forex market is a 24-hour market, there is often confusion about what time of day to use when calculating the closing price of one trading session and the opening of another....
Well, for one thing, ak4x has posted DAILY pivots, not FIBONACCI pivots. And he is using a trading session that coincides with Metaquotes, which is midnight to midnight Metaquotes time, or GMT +2hrs. For me, that is a setting of 0,0 or 2,2 which yield the same results as ak4x posted.....with the indicator set to show DAY, not FIB pivots. See chart.....
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: eu 15 minutes #1 on 11-26-2008.gif Size: 38 KB
  • #666
  • Nov 26, 2008 4:08pm Nov 26, 2008 4:08pm
Quoting traderathome
Well, for one thing, ak4x has posted DAILY pivots, not FIBONACCI pivots. And he is using a trading session that coincides with Metaquotes, which is midnight to midnight Metaquotes time, or GMT +2hrs. For me, that is a setting of 0,0 or 2,2 which yield the same results as ak4x posted.....with the indicator set to show DAY, not FIB pivots. See chart.....
So, we have ak4x using DAY pivots based on GMT +2 hrs, and we have Cobra using FIB pivots based on London time GMT +0 hrs.

Pick your poison.....DAY or FIBS.....Metaquotes, London, NY, SwahiliLand timezones.......

I am awaiting CobraForex reply to this......
  • #667
  • Nov 26, 2008 4:24pm Nov 26, 2008 4:24pm
Is it really that difficult to spend 10 minutes of your valued time to read the first page after I spend hundreds of hours to put this together?

Quoting onejamlove
Hi Cobra,

I have been lurking for a few days, read all the post and like what I have seen. But to be hoest I am now lost on where the latest version is. I did download and just installed the version from post #1 and it seems ok BUT I do recall many updates allong the way.

I feel I may be missing a few things allong the way. Can u either on the next update or when u have down time from trading ensure all latest indicators are in one zip file on the forum of ur web site.

Thks for all ur work and the assistance of the other members. As a past...
Attached Image
  • #668
  • Nov 26, 2008 5:25pm Nov 26, 2008 5:25pm
Quoting traderathome
So, we have ak4x using DAY pivots based on GMT +2 hrs, .
hi guys, i felt my ears burning on the other thread. actually i really enjoy dropping in on this one time to time and seeing what's up..

...to clarify an always confusing subject... I use 5pm EST/2100 GMT, except for now cuz of daylight savings I guess is 5pm EST/2200 GMT, so the +2 hrs GMT part I'm not sure is accurate.. i just know my GMT clock says 2200 when I calculate them, and yes they are standard daily pivots, not the fibo pivots.

beyond that... what do i know??

hope this helps and keep up the good work all.
FUBAR...
  • #669
  • Nov 26, 2008 5:41pm Nov 26, 2008 5:41pm
Quoting traderathome
Well, for one thing, ak4x has posted DAILY pivots, not FIBONACCI pivots. And he is using a trading session that coincides with Metaquotes, which is midnight to midnight Metaquotes time, or GMT +2hrs. For me, that is a setting of 0,0 or 2,2 which yield the same results as ak4x posted.....with the indicator set to show DAY, not FIB pivots. See chart.....
I am questioning the time basis of calculation, not the type of pivot. ak4x uses 5 pm ET, which would be -2,0 on my charts. It may not make a difference today but "yesterday" (market yesterday) it did, as evidenced by my last posting of our pivot discrepancies. For instance, the two hour difference between New York close and GMT 2400 would matter if between those two times the close changed substantially. Since pivot is H+L+C/3, every difference of 3 pips in close creates a difference of 1 pip in pivot. So a difference in close of, for example, 60 pips, creates a pivot change of 20 pips. Most of the time it would not make much difference.
  • #670
  • Nov 26, 2008 6:15pm Nov 26, 2008 6:15pm
Quoting ak4x
I use 5pm EST/2100 GMT, except for now cuz of daylight savings I guess is 5pm EST/2200 GMT, so the +2 hrs GMT part I'm not sure is accurate.. i just know my GMT clock says 2200 when I calculate them, and yes they are standard daily pivots, not the fibo pivots.
What a headache those different timezones are!
Just to explain why it is accurate:
5pm EST = 2200 GMT (now at non-DST time) AND broker time is at "GMT+2 " hours (and NOT GMT 02:00!) that is:
the broker is at 00:00 when GMT is at 22:00 and EST at 17:00 or 5pm.
  • #671
  • Nov 26, 2008 6:54pm Nov 26, 2008 6:54pm
Quoting TradeWell
I am questioning the time basis of calculation, not the type of pivot. ak4x uses 5 pm ET, which would be -2,0 on my charts. It may not make a difference today but "yesterday" (market yesterday) it did, as evidenced by my last posting of our pivot discrepancies. For instance, the two hour difference between New York close and GMT 2400 would matter if between those two times the close changed substantially. Since pivot is H+L+C/3, every difference of 3 pips in close creates a difference of 1 pip in pivot. So a difference in close of, for example,...
Well, for another thing, the TzPivots indicator, while it allows shifting the session start/stop times, IT DOES NOT ALLOW YOU TO SHORTEN THE PERIOD!!!!!!! All you are doing by shifting start/stops is to move/slide THE ENTIRE 24 HOUR PERIOD one way or the other. The indicator purports to calculate variances in session length due to whatever, but it does not purport to allow user to do this as a part of shifting session start/stops! If ak4x has a way to, and decides to use a 22 hour session period, well all the more power to him.

All this is nitpicking.
  • #672
  • Nov 26, 2008 6:56pm Nov 26, 2008 6:56pm
Quoting traderathome
So, we have ak4x using DAY pivots based on GMT +2 hrs, and we have Cobra using FIB pivots based on London time GMT +0 hrs.

Pick your poison.....DAY or FIBS.....Metaquotes, London, NY, SwahiliLand timezones.......

I am awaiting CobraForex reply to this......
I'm working with London time broker and prefer Fibonacci pivots.
I posted several candlestick charts before where we can observe how those levels are respected at a pip exactly.
  • #673
  • Nov 26, 2008 7:05pm Nov 26, 2008 7:05pm
Quoting traderathome
Well, for another thing, the TzPivots indicator, while it allows shifting the session start/stop times, IT DOES NOT ALLOW YOU TO SHORTEN THE PERIOD!!!!!!!...
I don't think ak4x is doing that and I only used him as an example of where the trading day is considered to begin and end. I am not trying to nitpick but trying to set my pivots to where they should be. I actually really don't care when the trading day starts or stops (since it is 24 hr) but I do care if my pivots are correct. I believe they are now and was trying to prompt a discussion as to whether I should be concerned about my pivots. I am fine with them now and perhaps some information was passed here to possibly help someone else with them also.
  • #674
  • Nov 26, 2008 7:09pm Nov 26, 2008 7:09pm
I do use the system.
Not only this system but I do use it when there is a decent range happening and it makes money like a printing press.

I just wanted to comment on Pivot points.

You guys are missing the somewhat obvious.

The answer is there is NO right answer. Going by action forex
doesn't make it right or wrong. I made a chart for EU and I added pivot points
at several different close/start times and guess what. (daily pivots btw) I followed price and watched what price did at the pivots.

Here is what I found.

1. The 5pm EST Close is one of the strongest pivots.
2. Price pays attention to 3 main pivots and a 4th during asian session.

Here are the 4 times I set pivots at

12PM EST
5PM EST
12PM GMT

Also set one up for 12PM in whatever the asian sessions open time zone is in. ITs the weakest pivot though so should be skipped. Although it does act as a minor support/resis.

To set up your pivot(s) properly you need to first figure out the time that your BROKER is in and is displaying in your charting platform. Go to a 1 min chart and u can see exactly what time it is in MT4.

Pivots were bugging me for a while and i felt like it was the missing indgrediant to why i didn't catch all the possible support/resistant levels.

Hopefully this post was useful to someone. So I think the answer is D) all of the above. Meaning pivots are valid on different close times.
  • #675
  • Nov 26, 2008 7:13pm Nov 26, 2008 7:13pm
Quoting cobraforex
I'm working with London time broker and prefer Fibonacci pivots.
I posted several candlestick charts before where we can observe how those levels are respected at a pip exactly.
Yah London time is just as valid as 12pm EST.. And probably more so during Euro session.

Thanks for releasing the system to the public cobra.. its awesome under the right conditions.
  • #676
  • Nov 26, 2008 7:23pm Nov 26, 2008 7:23pm
Quoting ak4x
hi guys, i felt my ears burning on the other thread. actually i really enjoy dropping in on this one time to time and seeing what's up..

...to clarify an always confusing subject... I use 5pm EST/2100 GMT, except for now cuz of daylight savings I guess is 5pm EST/2200 GMT, so the +2 hrs GMT part I'm not sure is accurate.. i just know my GMT clock says 2200 when I calculate them, and yes they are standard daily pivots, not the fibo pivots.

beyond that... what do i know??

hope this helps and keep up the good work all. ...
You are confusing us! What do you mean you use 5pm EST/2200 GMT?

GMT=London.

5pmEST = 2200 GMT = 10pm London. So what are you saying....that you use the 24 hour period starting with 5pm EST? If so, that coincides with the unaltered MT4 Metaquotes server time, which is midnight to midnight their time. Is that what you are doing?
  • #677
  • Edited 7:38pm Nov 26, 2008 7:27pm | Edited 7:38pm
Quoting Dansnali
Yah London time is just as valid as 12pm EST.. And probably more so during Euro session.

Thanks for releasing the system to the public cobra.. its awesome under the right conditions.
Here we come to a very important theme and thank you for pointing that out.
My favorite trading session is the London open till close.
Now why I use the London time pivot?

What the ones that move the market during this time see on their chart I see it as well and my pivots are very accurate.

It is an interesting point to may be adjust the pivot to the Asian or NY session, I never tried it because that isn’t my time to trade but I will have an eye on that and all others should do the same.

Very interesting post, thanks.
  • #678
  • Nov 26, 2008 7:37pm Nov 26, 2008 7:37pm
Here is also an example of where price is now and how two pivots that i just mentioned are BOTH effecting PA.

Time for me to get some sleep. Might be an idea to have BOTH pivots on the chart and maybe even the 12 EST one especially with scalping. You want to see all the angles and they wont clutter things too much since usually used on such a small timeframe (window area)

just my 2 cents.. later



Quoting cobraforex
Here we come to a very important point and thank you for pointing that out.
My favorite trading session is the London open till close.
Now why I use the London time pivot?

What the ones that move the market during this time see on their chart I see it as well and my pivots are very accurate.

[color=black]It is an interesting point to may be adjust the pivot to the Asian or NY...
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: example.gif Size: 23 KB
  • #679
  • Nov 26, 2008 7:47pm Nov 26, 2008 7:47pm
Quoting cobraforex
Here we come to a very important point and thank you for pointing that out.
My favorite trading session is the London open till close.
Now why I use the London time pivot?

What the ones that move the market during this time see on their chart I see it as well and my pivots are very accurate.

[color=black]It is an interesting point to may be adjust the pivot to the Asian or NY...
Yes, that is something interesting. And with the TzPivots it is easy since the indicator uses GMT as the base and references both the source (MT4 server) and destination (our choice, which is the point here) from the GMT base.

If I want to experiment with setting up for the Asian session, basing it on Tokyo time (GMT +9 hrs), all I do is use the settings +2, +9......+2 since Metaquotes MT4 server is on that time, and +9 since Tokyo is nine hours ahead of GMT. Anyone, no matter where they live, if they are on the MT4 GMT +2 hrs server, can use these settings.

For the Euro/London session (which is at GMT=0), settings would be +2, 0. The +2 setting for the MT4 server will never change, but the second number will change based on its timezone difference from GMT. So, setting up for US session based on EST, use +2, -5 since EST is GMT -5 hrs.
  • #680
  • Nov 26, 2008 7:55pm Nov 26, 2008 7:55pm
Quoting Dansnali
I just wanted to comment on Pivot points.

You guys are missing the somewhat obvious.

The answer is there is NO right answer. ....

So I think the answer is D) all of the above. Meaning pivots are valid on different close times.
At least I'm not alone!
Thanks for that great post.
There's no "perfection to the pip" with so many different prices at different brokers and times. Only ranges (which on higher TFs I would say are +20/-20 accuracy). Seems a lot... but remember that we should not be seeking to catch the very bottom or top and then bring the position to its very utmost perfect exit target. As in a sandwich, the meat is in the middle...

Scalping is a different thing, of course. But in longer TFs, it's better (and easier) to plan on that middle range.
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