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Where can I learn more about Price Action like those in James16 charts? 9 replies

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james16 Chart Thread

  • #15,081
  • Nov 6, 2008 8:04pm Nov 6, 2008 8:04pm
i sensed you were a fighter. thats what life is all about anyway. keep fighting to know the truth of who we are and why we are here and try to reach a point where your happiness does not depend on anything outside of you.

if it were not hard there would be no point in being here. life is a school--nothing more. its actually a very short trip we take but while we are here it seems long and arduous.

for some reason you triggered my esoteric side.

Quoting Jankone
Oh, thanks man , What a honour, it's you, who give me great idea how to make a bussiness. I'm still little trader but hard fighter.
  • #15,082
  • Nov 6, 2008 9:05pm Nov 6, 2008 9:05pm
Quoting Betard
Glad you got in on this too. I'm still in with 1/3 trying to ride it down.

For me a long trade is 15min lol, 80% of the time if I am right it hits +20 next bar, if it's 3-4 bars latter and it's farting around I kill it, also if I am +50% and it stalls I go stop @ cost. It's all about taking the risk out of it, I would rather stop at cost then lose. Also 1 loss on a trade all week is still not bad.
Keep taking CT trades, I need more money
  • #15,083
  • Nov 6, 2008 9:08pm Nov 6, 2008 9:08pm
I will add once you get this down you just hit it and get a gut feeling you are right, you dont think, you dont worry or have the What if's, you take the trade put in a stop and feel nothing. Once that happens you are a pro trader.
Keep taking CT trades, I need more money
  • #15,084
  • Nov 6, 2008 9:47pm Nov 6, 2008 9:47pm
Ryan, i dont know, why you dont answer @ PM?
I'd like to hear one answer , only one question : How do you set sl/pt - we have 10/20/25 pips pinbar, do you use 1:1 SL/TP ?

Quoting Ryanmcd
I will add once you get this down you just hit it and get a gut feeling you are right, you dont think, you dont worry or have the What if's, you take the trade put in a stop and feel nothing. Once that happens you are a pro trader.
  • #15,085
  • Nov 6, 2008 9:50pm Nov 6, 2008 9:50pm
i could be totally wrong but i would bet that ryan does not go there with people for one reason. its impossible for him to answer that and its impossible for him to explain why. you have to see that shore for yourself. it cannot be described. every trade is its own circumstance and every trade will be treated differently IF NEEDED. of all the emails i get it is ones like this that leave me staring at the screen, wanting to reply, but unable because it really cant be put into words. its like riding a bike. how do you tell someone how to ride a bike? you cant. they have to get on and try.

jim

Quoting Jankone
Ryan, i dont know, why you dont answer @ PM?
I'd like to hear one answer , only one question : How do you set sl/pt - we have 10/20/25 pips pinbar, do you use 1:1 SL/TP ?
  • #15,086
  • Nov 6, 2008 9:55pm Nov 6, 2008 9:55pm
Yes yes, i understand. Today i was greedy, I wanted more than 1:1 and had 2 b/e trades. so i'm working on better exits and i'm always glad for tip by better trader.


Quoting james16
i could be totally wrong but i would bet that ryan does not go there with people for one reason. its impossible for him to answer that and its impossible for him to explain why. yoiu have to see that shore for yourself. it cannot be described.

jim
  • #15,087
  • Nov 7, 2008 3:15am Nov 7, 2008 3:15am
Gret post Jankone - thats really hit the nail on the head for me. I'm having the exact same issues and its tough to take, but like you say, you have to keep your head and keep on fighting!

Quoting Jankone
btw i have an another example : Sometimes i miss really perfect ( I watch other chart or i'm doing other things)...
  • #15,088
  • Nov 7, 2008 4:21am Nov 7, 2008 4:21am
Quoting james16

combine a great method with a large account and combine a burning desire to succeed. ie(patience,practice,demo, treat it as a business kind of stuff)
and you got a shot. the small account kills people because its hard as hell to sit for hours for next to nothing. they always end up trading just to trade and thats what kills people experienced or not.

jim
Hey Jim

i think you a spot on here - well at least for my problem.
I know i need to work on my discipline and my patience, but as you say with a small account this is hard when you want to make it grow.
I haven't as yet worked out how to achieve this. (any tips much appreciated)
I eventually got round to writing a trade plan, which i don't seem to follow, I drew up a trade sheet to fill in before i took the trade - that lasted about 2 days. I have thought about drawing up a checklist before i enter, would i stick to that?
Trading the dailies is very hard with a small account, as then money management seems to go out the window to place the necessary stops. It also means staying up past midnight every night to see the next bar (not moaning - but it pisses the gf off when i wake her up ). then there is the issue with practice - i wantt to keep trying these setups as often as poss but if you stick to dailies they don't appear as regularly (eg none that i could see yesterday in the 20 pairs i follow).
I guess the argument could be well just try the lower tf's on a demo account, which i have, but without some kind of cash element involved i have found i trade very differently, even if there is only 10/15gbp on the table.
I know these are very much begginers issues, that i am sure many of you have already been through. I know i should just listen to your advice and stick to the dailies, but i also know that i have the tenacity to get good at this one way or another, even if it hurts in the process. I must be one of those self-harm victims.
Especially hard when the guy behind me at work pulls out 18kgbp this week from "guessing" which way he feels the ftse or dow might go on a 3min line chart - no indicators
(I wish i could say this was unusual, but he does this regularly. although he does have blowouts admittedly)

After all the fuss wish i had never posted that 15min chart now
Still I guess it was a discussion point.
let's just hope i am still posting here in 2 years too, and then i can look back at this and laugh at my self

cheers

Simon
  • #15,089
  • Nov 7, 2008 4:26am Nov 7, 2008 4:26am
Quoting Ryanmcd
I do better on the 5min vs the 4hr but I did trade several years off the 3min and my mentor of 20 years did the same. I think it depends on the person. I don't trade the 5min for a quick profit I trade it due to I handle is better mentally and emotionally.

In fact I signed up to J16 to try to learn how to trade the longer times so I don't have to watch it but it just did not work.
If you're starting out the 5 & 15 min charts don't always contain enough info for a noob to make rational decisions. Price can move up 20 pips, turn round and drop 50 pips and then go back up another 100 pips.

Unless they have a clear idea on what direction price might be trying to travel overall they can get into a series of losses that they can't possibly recover from.

Jim's point is simply this; master the longer time frames and then, over time, you can drop down and search for good PA patterns on the lower TFs but you will have learned how to pick the most productive areas.

My trading is completely based on SR and PA but I rarely drop below 30 min charts as I can usually find all the signals I need for setting myself up for the long runs.

All traders have to find a comfort level, you've found yours but you've been trading for years. A newbie can't hope to survive, unless born with a natural gift for this, by trying to master this game on lower TFs.

Just my 2 cents....
  • #15,090
  • Nov 7, 2008 4:29am Nov 7, 2008 4:29am
Quoting simoncs
Hey Jim

let's just hope i am still posting here in 2 years too, and then i can look back at this and laugh at my self

cheers

Simon
Two years ago I would have said the same thing, I'm still here and chuckling.

Take your time and master the basics; then you'll be ready to go live with a half-decent account size.
  • #15,091
  • Nov 7, 2008 5:42am Nov 7, 2008 5:42am
Hello to everyone here,

Great thread, can anyone tell me where abouts you have posted how your trading in this thread, as in the first few pages there are a few graphs but no explanation, is there a pdf somewhere? or can anyone tell me what page numbers all the information is on? Im sure this questions popped up a few times over the years!

Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks.
  • #15,092
  • Nov 7, 2008 6:13am Nov 7, 2008 6:13am
Quoting bobcat
Hello to everyone here,

Great thread, can anyone tell me where abouts you have posted how your trading in this thread, as in the first few pages there are a few graphs but no explanation, is there a pdf somewhere? or can anyone tell me what page numbers all the information is on? Im sure this questions popped up a few times over the years!

Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks.
Hi Bobcat

If you keep following the thread they do get explained - mamouth task i know, but well worth it.
However in the top right hand corner of the page next to the page numbers there is a paper clip icon - click thisand it will bring up a list of all the attachments - you can search this using ctrl +F for .pdf or .doc or .mq4 etc

cheers

Simon
  • #15,093
  • Nov 7, 2008 6:41am Nov 7, 2008 6:41am
Ah yes, here they are, pdfs everywhere, pinbar tutorial etc.

Thanks for that
  • #15,094
  • Nov 7, 2008 7:50am Nov 7, 2008 7:50am
Quoting james16
i could be totally wrong but i would bet that ryan does not go there with people for one reason. its impossible for him to answer that and its impossible for him to explain why. you have to see that shore for yourself. it cannot be described. every trade is its own circumstance and every trade will be treated differently IF NEEDED. of all the emails i get it is ones like this that leave me staring at the screen, wanting to reply, but unable because it really cant be put into words. its like riding a bike. how do you tell someone how to ride a bike? you cant. they have to get on and try.

jim

Thanks Jim and you are 100% correct, sometimes my goal is 10/10 20/20 or 5/5 depends on the swings.
Keep taking CT trades, I need more money
  • #15,095
  • Nov 7, 2008 8:14am Nov 7, 2008 8:14am
Hi ya Everyone,

I just watched the video's from the James16 group website, excellent that they are from all contributors and I just had some questions if someone could answer please??....
Sorry, if this is a really, really stupid question but I've only been using MA's & RSI's for a long while and I've just seen how these pin bars work form here and they work really well....sorry for the ramblings ..

1. What or how is this Pivot Zone created in the Vid's?

2. Pin bars work best on what TF's as I am only trading the Euro/£/$/Y on 5/15min TF and today they just kept giving fake action or is it just a bad day today for PB's or are they strictly longer TF's as in vids?

Sorry if really stupid questions....and very much appreciated for any help on this please..

Adrian
  • #15,096
  • Nov 7, 2008 8:24am Nov 7, 2008 8:24am
Quoting aarangio
1. What or how is this Pivot Zone created in the Vid's?

2. Pin bars work best on what TF's as I am only trading the Euro/£/$/Y on 5/15min TF and today they just kept giving fake action or is it just a bad day today for PB's or are they strictly longer TF's as in vids?

Sorry if really stupid questions....and very much appreciated for any help on this please.
There are no stupid questions, only educational answers...

I'll let someone else answer about pivot zones, I know what they are but I don't feel too articulate this morning.

The pin bars, the higher the time frame (4 hour and up) the better they work, but "better" may mean different things to different people. In my definition of better, basically it means even if price only moves a small distance (relative to the chart bar sizes) you can get enough time to move to break even if you're watching it move, and otherwise a small move before it turns around and "fails" can still equal 100 pips easily. So that's why higher timeframes for me work better. On a 5 minute chart if you zoom out enough for instance and you didn't know what the time frame was, maybe the price action looks the same, you see bars of a certain size moving in waves and you see price action setups, and you'll still see a pin that provided an entry signal, moved a little and then turned around to "fail", but it really probably moved the same relative distance as a setup on daily charts, it broke the pin, went some distance, then did whatever it did. The difference is on daily that was worth 100 pips and on 5min it was 3 pips and that's why it was considered a failure, nobody wants to exit after 3 pips so we wait for something bigger to develop and we watch it "fail" on us.

In reality that price movement might have completed its life cycle by moving just a little past the entry of the pin, it might have hit a pivot zone or other resistance spot and then "failed"...after price reaches a pivot zone or other key area, I consider that the trade is complete and price is no longer obligated to move in that direction.

So higher time frames, same relative bar to bar movement space, but worth more and easier to manage. I used to think daily = more risk because bigger stops and more losses, but again, get in the trade and set a target exit somewhere that makes sense from pivot/resistance areas and it will most likely give the pips. With pins don't try to necessarily catch a move. Just let it get to the next key area and then manage it. Sometimes a move will be captured but most often I just take the target and move on.
"Support and Resistance either holds or it doesn't." -Anonymous hillbilly
  • #15,097
  • Nov 7, 2008 8:30am Nov 7, 2008 8:30am
Quoting aarangio
Hi ya Everyone,

I just watched the video's from the James16 group website, excellent that they are from all contributors and I just had some questions if someone could answer please??....
Sorry, if this is a really, really stupid question but I've only been using MA's & RSI's for a long while and I've just seen how these pin bars work form here and they work really well....sorry for the ramblings ..

1. What or how is this Pivot Zone created in the Vid's?

2. Pin bars work best on what TF's as I am only trading the Euro/£/$/Y on 5/15min TF and today they just kept giving fake action or is it just a bad day today for PB's or are they strictly longer TF's as in vids?

Sorry if really...
They are only a guide and although most work well it's a question of finding the right areas to give you the best results.

A 4-hr Pin may prove less reliable than a Daily one; and so on up the scale. A 15-min Pin at the right area can be a good low cost entry if the longer time frames show that the Price Action has found good Support or Resistance.

As a general rule, most folk look for clear areas on the higher time frames where price has reversed strongly before.

The picture below shows the concept and Support and Resistance is the oldest idea in trading but still holds good.

Does it always work? No. Does anything always work? No. But it does give you a heads up of where to look for good price patterns. You then apply the stuff that Jim teaches and the day suddenly seems a bit brighter.

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Attached Image
  • #15,098
  • Nov 7, 2008 10:25am Nov 7, 2008 10:25am
Hi ya PeterFM and Thexder,

Thank you muchly for your in depth explainations you made some points very clear in there that I never thought about on this subject ..

Also sorry, but i think i missed something as well about the Pivot Zones..I'm just wondering is that the mid area of like a congestion area bouncing in a narrow range of S & R?..

Adrian
  • #15,099
  • Nov 7, 2008 10:49am Nov 7, 2008 10:49am
Quoting aarangio
Hi ya PeterFM and Thexder,

Thank you muchly for your in depth explainations you made some points very clear in there that I never thought about on this subject ..

Also sorry, but i think i missed something as well about the Pivot Zones..I'm just wondering is that the mid area of like a congestion area bouncing in a narrow range of S & R?..

Adrian
'
Hey Adrian

A PPZ, can be a single line, or it can be an area. So sometimes you have a flip of Support and resistance say off of a round number. Where price is constantly reacting that that price. But more times PPZ are zones, where they are areas that price is reacting and finding both support and resistance.

From the man himself

http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...ne#post1840240 (start with that post and scroll down James gives a lot of examples should help you)

http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=12722

Have a great weekend

Mike
  • #15,100
  • Nov 7, 2008 11:08am Nov 7, 2008 11:08am
There is another scenario,
It happens sometimes too. You wait for your A+, then you see B- (your inner voice says no! it's not my A+!) , then you pass, and b- trade purposely works, again you are sad and next time you take b- and it hit ussually your SL.
So ! Dont worry about passed / missed trades. Forex / Futures A+ trades was here and always will be here, if you can't wait and you will take every b- crap, you can't survive. It's your choice = Future with A+ and doing great bussiness or B- trades? Future without you in markets.
Today i pass B-, he could hit my potentionally tp, but WHAT? next B- trades would hit my SL.





Quoting eltrot1979
Gret post Jankone - thats really hit the nail on the head for me. I'm having the exact same issues and its tough to take, but like you say, you have to keep your head and keep on fighting!
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