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Where can I learn more about Price Action like those in James16 charts? 9 replies

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james16 Chart Thread

  • #13,541
  • Sep 8, 2008 6:45pm Sep 8, 2008 6:45pm
Quoting aSandman
Follow up, I did not use RSI on those trades I just posted. Only added it to show ryanmcd that I understand the theory behind it.

Mike I noticed that you used a delayed entry on your pinbars. Do you do this to increase win/loss ratio? Or just because you like to watch the price action after the break before you make your move?

Thanks for all the helps, back to reading this thread...

Jason


You got it, I have nothing else to add. Now it just takes time to get where when you see a trade you know what to do, you dont let it pass and if you have a loser you dont get gun shy. We have some very strong trending markets right now and to CT trade on anything over 1 hr is just retarded but I am sure lots of people will be doing it trying to catch the bottom
Keep taking CT trades, I need more money
  • #13,542
  • Sep 8, 2008 6:56pm Sep 8, 2008 6:56pm
Great day today, if you took the trend trade it was good for well over +10 If you shorted on anything over the 30min you lost some money and need to learn what a trend is.
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Keep taking CT trades, I need more money
  • #13,543
  • Sep 9, 2008 7:58pm Sep 9, 2008 7:58pm
Quoting Ryanmcd
Anyone else play the 5min - 30min stuff? I would think after 2-3 years of this thread someone else would be able to trade a shorter time frame.
Yes, I do occasionally when I'm not fishing

Ranges from 5, 10, 15, 30 min, 1hr and 4hr depending on how much time I want to sit here.

Great thing about PA is it can be traded effectively right down to the tick chart. Not many methods out there can be profitable on all time frames. The key is PA and PPZ's on any time frame.

Still prefer daily and above though as it suits my lifestyle - set and forget so I can live life.
  • #13,544
  • Sep 9, 2008 8:11pm Sep 9, 2008 8:11pm
Quoting NuckingFuts
Yes, I do occasionally when I'm not fishing

Ranges from 5, 10, 15, 30 min, 1hr and 4hr depending on how much time I want to sit here.

Great thing about PA is it can be traded effectively right down to the tick chart. Not many methods out there can be profitable on all time frames. The key is PA and PPZ's on any time frame.

Still prefer daily and above though as it suits my lifestyle - set and forget so I can live life.

True it's whatever works, I may get sick of the 5min and go back to the daily but right now I am having fun, will I be burned out of the 5min in 6months whoknows. Also I have traded the 1min as well and still made the 10 pips a day If you can read a chart correctly you can trade any time frame. The only reason *MOST* people stick to the higher times is because you can play trades that are not as good of a setup due to a larger stop, it's not that it's any different. Print out a daily chart and act like each bar is 5min and tell me what's different.
Keep taking CT trades, I need more money
  • #13,545
  • Sep 9, 2008 9:03pm Sep 9, 2008 9:03pm
Quoting Ryanmcd
True it's whatever works, I may get sick of the 5min and go back to the daily but right now I am having fun, will I be burned out of the 5min in 6months whoknows. Also I have traded the 1min as well and still made the 10 pips a day If you can read a chart correctly you can trade any time frame. The only reason *MOST* people stick to the higher times is because you can play trades that are not as good of a setup due to a larger stop, it's not that it's any different. Print out a daily chart and act like each bar is 5min and tell me what's different.
Spread and the speed at which you will lose your account if you haven't got the skills yet.

I like your posts Ryan, I've been taking some notes myself , but you've also probably encouraged a group of newcomers to go back to intraday charts when they haven't even learnt to manage daily bars consistently well yet.
You know yourself how hard it is to fight you natural tendencies to want fast profits. We all know where that leads.

I have no problem with you posting your charts and tips etc here , they're handy, but Jim, Mike etc have put a lot of effort into keeping the focus here on the higher time frame charts where people can plan and enter their trades without the pressure of watching their screens all day. Besides, Jim's ran the group and this thread long enough now to know the best path for newcomers who are serious about making this work.

I hope this hasn't come off as an attack. I want you to stick around, but continuously pushing how easy the five minute chart is will send many down the wrong path before they are ready. You said yourself you didn't want to make this a debate about TFs.
For every person who can trade the 5 minute chart successfully there are a hell of a lot of people who will blow account after account trying to do the same.

Peace man,

Bundy
Bundy's status today: "Waiting..."
  • #13,546
  • Sep 9, 2008 9:24pm Sep 9, 2008 9:24pm
Quoting Ryanmcd
True it's whatever works, I may get sick of the 5min and go back to the daily but right now I am having fun, will I be burned out of the 5min in 6months whoknows.
I agree PA can be appliied across all timeframes. In fact I have traded the 5 min with success as well(I got burned out real fast). Heck I even started to get burned out on the 1hr. So yes PA is universal in that sense.

Here is a post I made in the beginner section over on the site. I think it is appropriate with all the timeframe talk. There is no LAW where to start, that is going to be up to everyone. But taking the recommendation of James with all his experience makes the most sense to me(especially for those that are very very new to this, some people find PA that have been around the block and simply apply it to other things they know. James not only likes that but encourages people to do that). In the end everyone will have their own journey in this.


Take care,
Mike

Here is my post:
Quoting mbqb11
Q: What Timeframe should I start to learn to trade price action on?


A: James recommends as do most of us that have been here for awhile, that you should start to learn to trade on the daily/weekly timeframe. Trading on these timeframes helps a trader for multiple reasons. I will list some.

1. The higher the timeframe the more accurate these price patterns tend to be. While you can use them on all timeframes, the larger timeframes have more information thus they tend to be much more reliable. This helps a trader gain the appropriate confidence.

2. Less of them. By this I mean, trading on a weekly and daily, you have much less to be looking at. If you try trading off an hourly timeframe, their is so much 'action" and "noise" going on, it is VERY VERY difficult to be successful in the beginning. This does not mean you will never trade the 1hr, but you need to learn to do it on the higher timeframes first.

As James says, if you can not trade profitably on the daily/weekly, most likely you will never be able to trade profitable on the lower timeframes.

3. Time. By only needing to check your charts once a day, or even once a week, you will have proper time to analyze and make the right decisions. If you check your charts on the new bar close each day, there is plenty of time(b/c it is not during main trading hours), to analyze the bars and make a well thought out decision. Once you begin trading on the lowertime frames, you need your instincts and everything must be second nature, because you must react much quicker. Trading these higher timeframes is MUCH MUCH less stress and will help give you the confidence and discipline to suceed.

4. You might never leave them! Some people have a misconception that you must learn on the higher timeframes and graduate to the lower. This is absolutly NOT true. You might, and many do, decide to never leave the daily/weekly timeframes. This is perfectly fine!

5. Treat this as a business. James has laid out some of these rules and it is in your best interest to follow them.

http://www.james16group.us/Guests/mi...uirements.html

Best of luck and happy trading!

Mike
  • #13,547
  • Sep 9, 2008 10:22pm Sep 9, 2008 10:22pm
For anyone that had doubts etc about j16 material lately, I hope you've been watching my journal this week, if not I'm going to keep it up so go check it out, all trades called as or before I entered, simple setups, simple proof this stuff is gold.

Mr Smith
  • #13,548
  • Sep 10, 2008 3:12am Sep 10, 2008 3:12am
Quoting mbqb11
I agree PA can be appliied across all timeframes. In fact I have traded the 5 min with success as well(I got burned out real fast). Heck I even started to get burned out on the 1hr. So yes PA is universal in that sense.

Here is a post I made in the beginner section over on the site. I think it is appropriate with all the timeframe talk. There is no LAW where to start, that is going to be up to everyone. But taking the recommendation of James with all his experience makes the most sense to me(especially for those that are very very new to this, some people find PA that have been around the block and simply apply it to other things they know. James not only likes that but encourages people to do that). In the end everyone will have their own journey in this.


Take care,
Mike

Here is my post:

What new comers must understand is that PPZ's on 5-15 min time frames can be broken countless times each day, so there's greater risk associated when trading these charts.

Daily and above can hold trends for months to years, thus the reason to definitely start trading on these time frames as they have less risk associated with them.

Sure, all long term trends eventually break (as we've recently witnessed with a number of pairs), but it generally doesn't happen for months, years, even decades and beyond.

Think of PPZ's as walls, the walls on lower time frames like 1-15 min are like paper, 1hr-4hr are like plaster board, walls on daily charts are like bricks, walls on weekly and monthly charts are like 20+ inches of solid concrete.
  • #13,549
  • Sep 10, 2008 8:50am Sep 10, 2008 8:50am
Quoting NuckingFuts

Think of PPZ's as walls, the walls on lower time frames like 1-15 min are like paper, 1hr-4hr are like plaster board, walls on daily charts are like bricks, walls on weekly and monthly charts are like 20+ inches of solid concrete.
This needs to get framed and read before every trade.
Find an Edge. Only way to succeed in this business.
  • #13,550
  • Sep 10, 2008 9:09am Sep 10, 2008 9:09am
I think his charts are really valuable, he show us another way how to make business. For some people it's not best way to work on daily and weekly, and wait for days and weeks... somebody wants "do his work" and go relax. I really respect your style Ryanmcd. and it's good plan : make 10 pips and go fishing . I'm looking forward for next charts :-)
  • #13,551
  • Sep 10, 2008 11:04am Sep 10, 2008 11:04am
Quoting Jankone
I think his charts are really valuable, he show us another way how to make business. For some people it's not best way to work on daily and weekly, and wait for days and weeks... somebody wants "do his work" and go relax. I really respect your style Ryanmcd. and it's good plan : make 10 pips and go fishing . I'm looking forward for next charts :-)

in fact reading the first posts of the thread is possible to conclude that Ryanmcd has the same style of James. The difference is that James don't trade 5 min in Forex (i think, please correct me if i am wrong).

@James

i read many comments by you and Mike but if possible please i like to know this more clearly:

Do you think that trade 5 min in Forex is more difficult only or really impossible in the long run?

@Mike same question


@Ryan: how long are yoy trading this style? I read the post you were talking about this but is not clearly how long you are trading THIS method/time frame.


many thanks for all you.
  • #13,552
  • Sep 10, 2008 11:11am Sep 10, 2008 11:11am
Quoting giraia_br

Do you think that trade 5 min in Forex is more difficult only or really impossible in the long run?

@Mike same question
It is certainly possible and doable. The point isn't that you can't trade the 5min, it is just to take the right steps to get to the point where you CAN trade the 5mins if that is where you want to be. Most people want to go from, reading parts of this thread, to trading the 5 min TF in their spare time after work thinking they are going to clean up. And we all know the results. Ryan has been around this game for awhile now. He knows the way this business works. There is a harsh reality to this, and the steps James recommends is to help most avoid the harsh reality and give them a fighting chance. I

The whole thing about trading higher timeframes, is to just treat this like a business and take the proper steps to help one remain in this business for a long time to come. Most of those that I know who took the right steps did graduate to a lower timeframe. Not all felt the need too. Just as a side note, one of James favorite things to do is trade intraday the mini-dow. He has been doing it for years. So I think some people are taking the whole start on the higher timeframes the wrong way.

Hope that clears it up

Mike
  • #13,553
  • Sep 10, 2008 11:14am Sep 10, 2008 11:14am
Hi,

it's been a while since i last posted here, i have been busy lately.

it's a bit surprising to see the dollar keep on gaining strength...makes me wonder...is it time we need to readjust our recent thoughts regarding the greenback with bears all over it...the Eu is easily experiencing the most severe drop since 2005, and look at usd/chf, seems it's heading for the skies, price just keeps going steeper!

with the NFP much worse for the US$ than most economists thought it's surprising to see why the US$ contiues to soar! I was reading Mr. Ashraf's comments on his site reagarding the matter and he thinks it's not the dollar which is getting strong but the other currencies and economies going seriously down relative to the green back.

the thing that now worries me is that should a new US president with his bright new ideas help the dollar to gain strength provided Ashraf is right, the US$ should seriously make a long term comeback, i can see that the usd/cad is on a very long term res line, i was looking for shorts but i guess it's time i start considering a break! Anyhow it should be cool! A 5 year old trendline break is gonna be a rare sight...

Regards,
Ghous.
I believe . . .
  • #13,554
  • Sep 10, 2008 11:35am Sep 10, 2008 11:35am
Mike, please tell me if this an example of the advanced pinbar entry concept you were talking about yesterday? I pin bar or other pattern off a throw back?

Found this example in 1991 UJ dailies.
Thanks in advance


Jason
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May the fish in your stream of life always bite.
  • #13,555
  • Sep 10, 2008 11:50am Sep 10, 2008 11:50am
Quoting aSandman
Mike, please tell me if this an example of the advanced pinbar entry concept you were talking about yesterday? I pin bar or other pattern off a throw back?

Found this example in 1991 UJ dailies.
Thanks in advance


Jason
Hey Jason,

Yep this is exactly the technique I use for Breakouts + a Pullback and then you can find these continuation looking bars. In this case it is just an Inside bar. But this is the one time I look at an inside bar then more then just that, and would call it a continuation pinbar.

Best,
Mike
  • #13,556
  • Sep 10, 2008 12:34pm Sep 10, 2008 12:34pm
I know you guys don't know me from a man on the moon but I want to give back. It is one reason I started posting here after lurking for so many months. The other is want the companion ship of fellow traders.
While my ego would like to try and show off and say I know this or know that I don't really think that would serve anyone. Instead a humbling true story that might save someone some heartache just might.

I started trading in 2001 just after the bear market had really taken hold. I studied price charts for a few months and read a few books. I traded on paper and made a killing in paper profits. I then was ready (in my mind) to enter the market and make a killing!! This thing was so easy I could not believe my luck. Well I promptly opened a brokerage account with my life savings. Semi conductor stocks were the rockets back then I picked to make my fortune on. I even did the math over how many times my account would need to double before I was rich. WARNING here if you find yourself doing 2,4,8,16,32,64,128, ...etc on paper STOP. A trader I knew that blew out a few years later and gave me his books had these very numbers written on the inside flap on one of his books. A coinecedence?

I was now armed with money in an account, some pitiful trading skills and I had read after Mind, Money management, technique. Get these three things correct and you got it made. Opening day.....I open the 5 min charts....
I laugh to myself as I think of the stories of people freezing like a deer in the head lights. Well you guessed it, there was a killing all right and I was the one who got killed. I lost 8% of my account in one day. That,s huge!
That's my life savings I was thinking about as I lay down in the fetal position that night. I quickly did the math and knew I would loose it all in 2 weeks if I didn't make fast changes. I switched to the dailies, made rules about how many trades I could take in a week, how much risk I could take. I lost 30 percent over 6 months then climbed back up to neg 5% and pulled the plug. The game was much much more hard core than I gave it credit for. I knew I was no where ready yet. IF I had not switched instantly to daily or higher time frames and reduced my position size from 2 to 1 percent I would have blown out completely. We are all as unique as a blade of grass..... if you are new and trade off 5 min charts this story could be you or worse. The tale I just told was painful to me in the recollection but if it saves even one of you then it was worth it.

Do I like raynMCD's charts ? Yes! Do I trade off the 5 min with real money? HELL NO. Have I spent years and thousands upon thousands hours looking at charts, searching under every stone I could I find? yes. I have made indicators then indicators plotted on indicators ever falling down the dark web of complexity. I threw out the indicators a few years ago. You have to want to win to win. Ie your head has to be right. If you blow out an account it will make it much harder to get your head right.

Sorry to run on so long but I get in touch with a lot of emotion when I talk about the early days.

Jason
May the fish in your stream of life always bite.
  • #13,557
  • Sep 10, 2008 1:06pm Sep 10, 2008 1:06pm
Thank you for the fast response Mike

Quoting ghous
Hi,

Anyhow it should be cool! A 5 year old trendline break is gonna be a rare sight...

Regards,
Ghous.
Yes that should be something
May the fish in your stream of life always bite.
  • #13,558
  • Sep 10, 2008 4:53pm Sep 10, 2008 4:53pm
hey Sandman!

Awesome story.

Isn't it funny how we all once thought that we are so specially and that maybe we had this special talent for this business that would allow us to make a fortune in no time.

I guess this is just human nature but the market somehow is a mirror of yourself. All your flaws are reflected by the your decisions and thus by your account.

Chris
  • #13,559
  • Sep 10, 2008 5:20pm Sep 10, 2008 5:20pm
Good posts here, I will say that if you are new to this trades the LEAST amount of money that you can, I started with 3min charts and was trading the full S&P so you can see how I lost 50k just getting started. If you throw in $100 and try to grow it to $150 WITHOUT doing 10% a trade then you are getting somewhere, No way I would ever start this with 500k and do 2% but once you get it down it's all just numbers. What James show is nothing new and has been around about 30 years now, in fact my 1st stock book on T&A is from 1920's and has all hand written charts. Also if you did the 5min today trend was down and all shorts made money, I am taking the week off due to family in town that's why I have been out.

One last thing, The market changes just like everyone knows, as of late I would be looking at using a 20-25 pip goal due to the market moving 100+ per day, have to learn to adjust. Using 20-25 I still use a 2% mark.
Keep taking CT trades, I need more money
  • #13,560
  • Sep 10, 2008 5:23pm Sep 10, 2008 5:23pm
Quoting giraia_br
in fact reading the first posts of the thread is possible to conclude that Ryanmcd has the same style of James. The difference is that James don't trade 5 min in Forex (i think, please correct me if i am wrong).

@James

i read many comments by you and Mike but if possible please i like to know this more clearly:

Do you think that trade 5 min in Forex is more difficult only or really impossible in the long run?

@Mike same question


@Ryan: how long are yoy trading this style? I read the post you were talking about this but is not clearly how long you are trading THIS method/time frame.


many thanks for all you.

I started on the 3min chart, I did have a few mentors on the way that are old pro's and that took about 10 years off the curve. They showed up after I lost my 50k lol Also I started in 1999 with real money.
Keep taking CT trades, I need more money
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