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Andrews Pitchfork (Median Line)

  • #121
  • Jul 1, 2008 11:39am Jul 1, 2008 11:39am
technical question. when drawing the fork lines, and price makes new highs or lows, do you need to move the fork lines to those highs/ lows or can you keep them where they are and use a sliding paralel if you want?

I have a chart here showing where price made new highs, but the "old" upper fork line stayed the same because the median line was respected
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: forkq.JPG Size: 228 KB
  • #122
  • Jul 1, 2008 1:20pm Jul 1, 2008 1:20pm
I'd say once the Hagopian/trigger line has been violated by one whole bar, in all likelihood the pitchfork is done and I will probably remove it from my charts if there doesn't seem to be any use as a sliding parallel or warning lines to be drawn from it (which would be dictated by the amount of price action that I deemed to respect the original fork).

Although on that occasion it did seem to be respected it could just be coincidence and/or another fork was situated in the same area. The difficulty lies in that there is no scientific point as far as I know where a pitchfork is deemed as 'useless' but it seems more and more likely that it is just clutter on your chart the further time goes on without respecting the fork. I guess it comes down to how much clutter you can handle.


Maybe someone else has a different take on the matter....?


PS. that upward sloping fork is gagging for a sliding parallel above it to multi-pivot those peaks.
  • #123
  • Edited 2:09am Jul 2, 2008 1:55am | Edited 2:09am
I don't know if I'm using the fork the way it's supposed to but it's been working for me.
Went long when price broke and closed above upper line of fork
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: EURUSD1.jpg Size: 125 KB
Butt kissers suck!
  • #124
  • Jul 2, 2008 9:36am Jul 2, 2008 9:36am
when you have a sliding parallel on a fork..how far should price fall from the fork before a sliding parallel becomes almost....pointless?...when this happens, should a new fork be drawn?
  • #125
  • Jul 2, 2008 2:28pm Jul 2, 2008 2:28pm
Quoting Blackeagle
Hi pips4life,

please read the attachment and you'll find answers re. how to use parallel lines (called Warning Lines), in which case you need to slide parallel lines as well as Hagopian's Rule (in case you don't have the same info).

Cheers,
Thanks Blackeagle for that simple 3-pager. I was way off base when I mentioned Hagopian earlier but this reminds me of what that rule actually is. Referring back to my earlier post, I draw tons of sliding parallels. I would draw formal Warning lines more readily if MT4 had a decent PF tool to add them at the proper spacing, but I have to compensate with more tedious manual methods.


Quoting birdt
Just for the record, the correct way to draw the Schiff as laid out by Andrews is to draw the origin from the midpoint of price between points A and B, ...

Pips4life: We (may) agree then... the Schiff is at the 1/2 price between A and B, but still at the same time of A. A Modified Schiff is also at the 1/2 price point but at 1/2 the time as well. In your drawing, your turquoise line which you called a "Schiff" is actually a "Modified Schiff" AFAIK.

By the way, in a class I took taught by expert Tim Morge, he said that a lot of people use "Schiff" to describe 2 different ways of drawing PF's. Many don't realize the difference between "Schiff" and "Modified Schiff", so it's very easy to get confused when reading threads about them, because many users are unaware of the differences. Even some chart drawing tools have added to the confusion because they might say "Schiff" when in fact it's at the 1/2 time and 1/2 price point, which is really a "Modified Schiff".

... the modification that I have made to draw the origin from the midpoint of both time and price is one that I made myself. There was some logic behind this, although whether it performs any better or worse I am yet to see.

Hmmm... your words here for what you drew are exactly what a Modified Schiff is, not a Schiff. You may well have stumbled upon it by observation because they do work pretty well IMO. Again, this is your turquise PF in your drawing.

Your red PF, which you called a "Modified Schiff" is what I think is your own invention, because I haven't seen it before (maybe it's been mentioned in other threads... I don't know). I'll have to play around with it. We'll call it the "Bird Pitchfork" for now That would be at the same time as A, and the same price as C. (See my post #108 for birdt's drawing).


Here's a chart of what I've been seeing this morning on GJ. I still see no clear direction either way but there is opportunity to profit on the lower time frames.

Yup, you were right. Since the time you posted, PA has gone up and down, up and down... no clear direction even now.


Also, if anyone wants a good text to learn the basics of pitchforks and action/reaction theory you can download from here:

http://www.mediafire.com/?wgz2tt1yn2m
Thanks. This is a nice, almost 100 page document. I haven't read it yet but it looks very interesting. Your link, however, was truncated so the file type was lost (PDF). (All the "%20" characters should be single spaces). Having just done a google search for Patrick Mikula, I see he has his own website and some other eBooks.

Thanks for the tips everyone,

Kent (Pips4life)
  • #126
  • Jul 2, 2008 3:39pm Jul 2, 2008 3:39pm
Quoting parlenk
Hi all,

I have an e-book related to the topic as well..hope u guys like it.
http://www.zshare.net/download/10958571ddf6fbc6/
Hi Parlenk,

Thanks for the link. Turns out your eBook is the same as what birdt referred to (but birdt's filename had truncated the .pdf filetype).

Kent
  • #127
  • Jul 2, 2008 7:15pm Jul 2, 2008 7:15pm
Actually is was justcatalin who began this thread that started me off using what I referred to as the 'modified Schiff'' pitchfork. If you go back to about page 2 or 3 of the thread you can see he/she used them on a couple of EU charts. I regret that I have no formal training in the use of pitchforks aside from reading the Mikula book which I have already posted, this excellent empirical study by Greg Fischer:

http://www.mediafire.com/?euegutxxtoy

plus some other stuff from the internet (a certain tradingnaked website contained a lot of info). This was the first time I had encountered this particular method but it seems to do a great job.
  • #128
  • Jul 2, 2008 8:33pm Jul 2, 2008 8:33pm
Greg Fisher's doctoral dissertation on the grain markets is a great study and a good place to start for the understanding of how to incorporate forks into your trading, he gives the ground rules.

might add he also has his own web site and study group , you can easily find it with a google search
  • #129
  • Edited 9:05pm Aug 5, 2008 8:41pm | Edited 9:05pm
Hi everyone,
Andrew's pitchfork looks powerful to me because it helps me defining large range of pips for positioning target profit. I hope the thread does not end here..
Starts again with my point of view on cable, would go short if this happens:
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: cable short.jpg Size: 503 KB
  • #130
  • Aug 6, 2008 11:23am Aug 6, 2008 11:23am
From the looks of your chart, that bounce from the ml would also be a TC from the 21ma as well.

Happy Pippin'
KC

Quoting hijackxx
Hi everyone,
Andrew's pitchfork looks powerful to me because it helps me defining large range of pips for positioning target profit. I hope the thread does not end here..
Starts again with my point of view on cable, would go short if this happens:
  • #131
  • Aug 6, 2008 3:14pm Aug 6, 2008 3:14pm
Quoting kc8flq
From the looks of your chart, that bounce from the ml would also be a TC from the 21ma as well.

Happy Pippin'
KC
hey KC,
yeah it is also a MACD TC pattern tought by phillip. Price didn't at least touch ML by the time it retraces so I ignored GU couple of hours ago.
Actually, I switched to GJ and pocket quite large pips. Like i mentioned before, here and on my blog, I had a hard time determining TP. With the help of AP ML (andrew's pitchfork median line), I could bank a higher probability trade with higher confidence.

Here was my trade (success):
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: second long trade gj.jpg Size: 548 KB
  • #132
  • Aug 8, 2008 7:42am Aug 8, 2008 7:42am
Pitchfork in action

http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/4...tchforkcj6.gif
  • #133
  • Aug 8, 2008 8:00am Aug 8, 2008 8:00am
Weekly chart...

http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/489...tchforkdm7.gif
  • #134
  • Aug 8, 2008 9:31am Aug 8, 2008 9:31am
Quoting Hikkake
Weekly chart...

very good observation.. i have the same vision as yours.. this thing could still go downward down to 1.88x maybe?
  • #135
  • Aug 8, 2008 10:30pm Aug 8, 2008 10:30pm
Quoting hijackxx
very good observation.. i have the same vision as yours.. this thing could still go downward down to 1.88x maybe?
hehe... After make zoom through the median line... i will wait the retrace to median line before make another nice entry setup

pitchfork rulez....

Master your tool Master yourself ( =
  • #136
  • Aug 8, 2008 11:52pm Aug 8, 2008 11:52pm
Quoting Hikkake
hehe... After make zoom through the median line... i will wait the retrace to median line before make another nice entry setup

pitchfork rulez.... --> ohh yeah!!

Master your tool Master yourself (= --> been trying to reach there for quite a long time. This tool suits me alot...
  • #137
  • Aug 8, 2008 11:59pm Aug 8, 2008 11:59pm
This is how i expect for GU to move next..
Just like you said, the moment it reaches the setup, then we'll be joining the ride down poooommm pommmmm !!!!
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: next week gu plan .gif Size: 42 KB
  • #138
  • Aug 9, 2008 7:09am Aug 9, 2008 7:09am
Just a suggestion for you posters of charts.

Remove all the other shit.

If you're posting charts to show PFs, then get all that other crap off of the charts. No one gives a shit about your MAs, BBs, etc. I will not look at any chart if there's crap on it. I just got back from vacation, found this thread and the only charts I really looked at were the ones with only PFs on them.

Also, don't post charts with 5+ PFs on them. If you put up 5 PFs or more, it just looks like a mess and it means you really don't understand what you're doing. If you can't find the action being described with 2-3 PFs, then it isn't working right now. That happens. PF's don't always work all the time. Putting up more of them accomplishes nothing. Just look at another pair instead of trying to force the issue.

And if you're really interested in learning PFs, then get the materials and study them. There are only a few people out there that have done great work with PFs and disseminated their info for others. I have mentioned their names a number of times on this forum. Their materials are the source of all this.

Other than that, keep posting, it helps to share with others simply because it helps your focus.
  • #139
  • Aug 10, 2008 12:29am Aug 10, 2008 12:29am
Quoting Dopey
Just a suggestion for you posters of charts.

Remove all the other shit.

If you're posting charts to show PFs, then get all that other crap off of the charts. No one gives a shit about your MAs, BBs, etc. I will not look at any chart if there's crap on it. I just got back from vacation, found this thread and the only charts I really looked at were the ones with only PFs on them.

Also, don't post charts with 5+ PFs on them. If you put up 5 PFs or more, it just looks like a mess and it means you really don't understand what you're doing. If you can't find the action being described with 2-3 PFs, then it isn't working right now. That happens. PF's don't always work all the time. Putting up more of them accomplishes nothing. Just look at another pair instead of trying to force the issue.

And if you're really interested in learning PFs, then get the materials and study them. There are only a few people out there that have done great work with PFs and disseminated their info for others. I have mentioned their names a number of times on this forum. Their materials are the source of all this.

Other than that, keep posting, it helps to share with others simply because it helps your focus.
Sorry, I'll remove all the shits if they're really bothering by next posts.. The MAs and stuff are only helping me to get into a good entry confirmation.
By the way, what's a BB?
edit: nevermind i figured it out its boilinger band
  • #140
  • Aug 11, 2008 8:33am Aug 11, 2008 8:33am
Hey Dopey, Pippo Loco & Hikkake,

What do you guys say about the current cable for the next trade?
Would you mind sharing your ideas with all of us?

Hijackxx
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