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Dukascopy and instant execution...

  • #1
  • First Post: Jul 16, 2008 12:26pm Jul 16, 2008 12:26pm
...anyone have any experience with Dukascopy and their claim of instant execution on orders up to 100Mil? Or have any experience with this broker in general, I would love to hear it as I am contemplating using them for scalping. Thanks!
  • #2
  • Jul 16, 2008 3:09pm Jul 16, 2008 3:09pm
For now their demo seems pretty realistic.
I'd expect it behave just like a live account.
I once got partial filled with 500 Million Euros.
So they don't just take your position and calculate what would
happen if price moves up or down.
  • #3
  • Jul 16, 2008 6:39pm Jul 16, 2008 6:39pm
Quoting Tjpld
For now their demo seems pretty realistic.....

....I once got partial filled with 500 Million Euros.
Was this partial fill on demo?

fxRichard, I'm assuming your scalping with CyroxMMAs...what time frame are you using?

I was with Dukascopy around this time last year. Their slippage control feature is really good for scalping, but it's harder to get filled obviously. When I was using them, I only traded 1 lot(1mil) per trade. Using a 2-3 pip slippage limit, I got filled on 1mil about 90% of the time and I would say it takes between 500ms to 1 second to be filled(from my experience)

If you look at their liquidity, it's obvious you can't get 500mil at one price...the way it was explained to me is that you click and your order is spread down the level 2 until it's filled.(hope that makes sense?)

If that's the case, then obviously your effective spread will be higher...and with CyroxMMAs, that warrants moving to a longer time frame(at least 1min if not 5min).

This is just my experience FWIW.
  • #4
  • Jul 16, 2008 6:58pm Jul 16, 2008 6:58pm
Thanks for the replies guys, I am trading off of the 1sec chart and looking to use 3Mil in and out to start with them so this may be an issue it sounds like. I may have to try a few trades and see....Thanks!

EDIT: When you say you got filled 90% of the time do you mean at the requested price or within your slippage limits?
  • #5
  • Jul 16, 2008 7:24pm Jul 16, 2008 7:24pm
Richard,

With that sort of starting volume, you should seriously consider ppl like BGC and FCStone, and also HotspotFxi. 3M for 20 days is 60M and that is just one trade per day. I am sure you will be taking more trades, so ur volume should easily hit 100M. Brokers will talk to you abt accomodating you if you give them that sort of volume.

Regards,
K.
  • #6
  • Jul 16, 2008 7:42pm Jul 16, 2008 7:42pm
Quoting fxRichard
EDIT: When you say you got filled 90% of the time do you mean at the requested price or within your slippage limits?
at the price clicked...the other 10% of the time was within my slippage limits or partial fills.
  • #7
  • Jul 17, 2008 5:32am Jul 17, 2008 5:32am
Quoting kermut
Richard,

With that sort of starting volume, you should seriously consider ppl like BGC and FCStone, and also HotspotFxi. 3M for 20 days is 60M and that is just one trade per day. I am sure you will be taking more trades, so ur volume should easily hit 100M. Brokers will talk to you abt accomodating you if you give them that sort of volume.

Regards,
K.
Kermut,

I have contacted FCStone and Hotspot. The problem is for Hotspot FXi they require 250k to open an account, and if I remember correctly FXStone was similar but I will have to double check even thought I posted a bunch of info about them in the other forum lol. The advantage I see to Dukascopy is they offer a large liquidity pool, besides their SWFX banks they offer Currenex, Hotspot, and Lava as well. Also their commissions are less than Hotspot and FCStone if I remember correctly.
  • #8
  • Jul 17, 2008 5:34am Jul 17, 2008 5:34am
Quoting nhallmark
at the price clicked...the other 10% of the time was within my slippage limits or partial fills.
Gotcha well this does not sound too bad then, I usually set a 1 pip slippage max, it will probably be 2-3 weeks before I decide and pick someone but I will update everyone on my experience with Dukas if I use them.
  • #9
  • Jul 17, 2008 5:48am Jul 17, 2008 5:48am
They say they are including HotspotFXi prices into their platform feed. What i am wondering, Dukas quotes in 0.5 pip increments, but HotspotFXi in 0.1 pip increments. So if they indeed do include HsFXi quotes, they are 'invisible' on their platform. So they either round prices (but i wouldn't call that STP exactly, and you gotta wonder what else they are rounding) or they dont include them at all.
  • #10
  • Jul 17, 2008 6:35am Jul 17, 2008 6:35am
Hmmm....downside to Dukas it seems account is held in CHF so my account balance fluctuates all the time since the account is USD based.
  • #11
  • Jul 17, 2008 10:14am Jul 17, 2008 10:14am
Quoting shrike
They say they are including HotspotFXi prices into their platform feed. What i am wondering, Dukas quotes in 0.5 pip increments, but HotspotFXi in 0.1 pip increments. So if they indeed do include HsFXi quotes, they are 'invisible' on their platform. So they either round prices (but i wouldn't call that STP exactly, and you gotta wonder what else they are rounding) or they dont include them at all.
Shrike,

That is a very good point. Most banks and a lot of ECN models now use 0.1 pip increments which means they will make the difference if there is one. This however doesnt mean that it isn't STP. For example, lets say HSFXI quotes come into Duka for EURUSD as 1.58003/1.58007. I assume the quote you would see at Duka would be 1.58000/1.58010 and lets say thats good for 1M. If you click on the buy or the sell you get filled at what they show. However, on their pricing engine your trade will go straight to HSFXI at 1.58003/1.58007 and Duka collects the extra spread. They are only manipulating the price and not necessarily the execution.
  • #12
  • Jul 17, 2008 11:26am Jul 17, 2008 11:26am
Well i don't know, i personally would prefer it if they woudn't interfere with pricing in any form.

If people, like in above postings, are looking to execute large quantities, i suggest to take a look at HotspotFXi itself. They have designed a special order-entry algo for this purpose, called tradeview. It displays spreads according to user-definable quantities (which will also includes the banks iceberg-orders, which are otherwise completly hidden) and follows price if neccessary (also user-definable tresholds), to improve liklyhood of fills.
  • #13
  • Jul 17, 2008 11:48am Jul 17, 2008 11:48am
Quoting shrike
Well i don't know, i personally would prefer it if they woudn't interfere with pricing in any form.

If people, like in above postings, are looking to execute large quantities, i suggest to take a look at HotspotFXi itself. They have designed a special order-entry algo for this purpose, called tradeview. It displays spreads according to user-definable quantities (which will also includes the banks iceberg-orders, which are otherwise completly hidden) and follows price if neccessary (also user-definable tresholds), to improve liklyhood of fills.
I completely agree. The one point that I want to continue talking about is clearing fees and pricing. The more volume you do the better clearing fee and pricing a trader should get. I dont think it is fair for a trader who is doing less than 100M a month to ask for the best spreads and the best clearing fees a brokerage can offer.
It is important to remember that the broker needs to make money in order to keep giving a competitive product. This is especially the case with a non dealing desk model. If they aren't making money by collecting losses then their margins aren't going to be very flexible. I dont think it is unreasonable for Duka (or any other ECN model) to mark up some of the spread on traders who do not do a reasonable amount of volume and I'm not saying the mark up should be huge. However, those traders who help the broker bring down their net cost by trading a significant amount of volume a month should get a much more favorable price. Same with clearing fees. Any thoughts?
  • #14
  • Jul 19, 2008 10:47pm Jul 19, 2008 10:47pm
Quoting fxtrader42
I completely agree. The one point that I want to continue talking about is clearing fees and pricing. The more volume you do the better clearing fee and pricing a trader should get. I dont think it is fair for a trader who is doing less than 100M a month to ask for the best spreads and the best clearing fees a brokerage can offer.
It is important to remember that the broker needs to make money in order to keep giving a competitive product. This is especially the case with a non dealing desk model. If they aren't making money by collecting losses then their margins aren't going to be very flexible. I dont think it is unreasonable for Duka (or any other ECN model) to mark up some of the spread on traders who do not do a reasonable amount of volume and I'm not saying the mark up should be huge. However, those traders who help the broker bring down their net cost by trading a significant amount of volume a month should get a much more favorable price. Same with clearing fees. Any thoughts?
Duka marks up the spread regardless of the notional volume. NZD/USD is usually +1 or +2 pips higher than IB or MBT. We are usually talking DD spread + commission!
  • #15
  • Jul 19, 2008 10:55pm Jul 19, 2008 10:55pm
and why is that? the general rule is that live accounts execute very differently than demos, so how can you claim such a thing?

Quoting Tjpld
For now their demo seems pretty realistic.
I'd expect it behave just like a live account.
  • #16
  • Jul 19, 2008 11:00pm Jul 19, 2008 11:00pm
richard

vcap futures....

aggregated ECN platform (best price is your quote between all providers) was in the works last year.... i have not pursued it since then... often 0 spread (choice) but you pay commission....

pretty sure the min account size was around 50 or 25K (but you have to wheel and deal for it) as standard was 100k or more.... i am pretty sure the man that owns it is named paul (again, its been 12 months ago)

they are located in chicago....
http://www.vcapfx.com/

here is my list of ECNs:
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=53466

btw--- 1 minute chart? talk about living on the edge.... that timeframe can cost your shirt in an instant if your not careful....
  • #17
  • Jul 20, 2008 12:14am Jul 20, 2008 12:14am
Quoting fxRichard
The problem is for Hotspot FXi they require 250k to open an account
This is not the case. Their minimum is $100k.
  • #18
  • Jul 20, 2008 12:17am Jul 20, 2008 12:17am
Quoting tdion
richard

vcap futures....

aggregated ECN platform (best price is your quote between all providers) was in the works last year.... i have not pursued it since then... often 0 spread (choice) but you pay commission....

pretty sure the min account size was around 50 or 25K (but you have to wheel and deal for it) as standard was 100k or more.... .
50 or 25k! Not quite...

  1. Must qualify as an ECP ("Eligible Contract Participant"), per CFTC regulations (per the pdf, Individual with $5-10M in assets)
  2. Volume requirement of $500M USD per month in notional value
  3. Must trade a minimum of $500K USD per click
  4. Must open account with a minimum of $250K USD

http://www.vcapfx.com/cax-trading-requirements.asp

  • #19
  • Jul 20, 2008 12:28am Jul 20, 2008 12:28am
Quoting fxtrader42
However, those traders who help the broker bring down their net cost by trading a significant amount of volume a month should get a much more favorable price. Same with clearing fees. Any thoughts?
Agree on lower clearing fees, disagree on spreads, keep those equal for all clients. IB does this the smart way. $10/M for everything >2 yards a month, as well as tiered swap rates.
  • #20
  • Jul 20, 2008 1:17am Jul 20, 2008 1:17am
Quoting tdion
richard

vcap futures....

aggregated ECN platform (best price is your quote between all providers) was in the works last year.... i have not pursued it since then... often 0 spread (choice) but you pay commission....

pretty sure the min account size was around 50 or 25K (but you have to wheel and deal for it) as standard was 100k or more.... i am pretty sure the man that owns it is named paul (again, its been 12 months ago)

they are located in chicago....
http://www.vcapfx.com/

here is my list of ECNs:
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=53466

btw--- 1 minute chart? talk about living on the edge.... that timeframe can cost your shirt in an instant if your not careful....
I tried their demo and was less impressed. The depth was not greater than what you'd find on a good currenex platform or at MBT or IB. Also, the spreads on some of the exotics were absolutely horrific (EUR/NZD, EUR/AUD).
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