Oanda Stop Hunting? | Forex Factory

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Oanda Stop Hunting?

  • #1
  • First Post: Jul 9, 2008 1:47am Jul 9, 2008 1:47am
I just found this video, it looks bad for Oanda no?

http://www.mediafire.com/?dz21xxsxjjm


http://i25.tinypic.com/10h83kk.jpg
  • #2
  • Jul 9, 2008 1:55am Jul 9, 2008 1:55am
it honestly wouldn't surprise me...i can't document it, but i can remember one or two spikes where my stops got hit out of the blue. Outside of those events, imo, oanda is a pretty reputable broker. I'm not going to hold anything against them unless it starts happening frequently.
  • #3
  • Jul 9, 2008 2:35am Jul 9, 2008 2:35am
I have the same observations here. Stop loss hunting is very common event with oanda. they actually sent an email confirming that they win more when their clients lose. A manipulation like that from the screenshot + spread of 20-30 pips and no stop loss can be saved, no matter how good your analysis may have been.
  • #4
  • Jul 9, 2008 5:44am Jul 9, 2008 5:44am
Quoting Pirin
Stop loss hunting is very common event with oanda. they actually sent an email confirming that they win more when their clients lose.
Please stop lying. Thanks.

Regards - Xaron
  • #5
  • Jul 9, 2008 11:06am Jul 9, 2008 11:06am
Any broker that is using variable spreads can stop you out without giving an explanation. I always use fixed spread brokers because i trade the news on a regular basis. The spread never widens under any condition and i can enter or exit at will. I have trade 100 full lots at a time and never was stop hunted. In fact it got within 1 pip (trailing) and I never got stopped out. Oanda is good in certain instances, but certainly not for the large trader.
  • #6
  • Jul 9, 2008 1:12pm Jul 9, 2008 1:12pm
Quoting Rolandlc33
Any broker that is using variable spreads can stop you out without giving an explanation. I always use fixed spread brokers because i trade the news on a regular basis. The spread never widens under any condition and i can enter or exit at will. I have trade 100 full lots at a time and never was stop hunted. In fact it got within 1 pip (trailing) and I never got stopped out. Oanda is good in certain instances, but certainly not for the large trader.
What's that supposed to mean? Every broker can do whatever it wants to do?
I don't think so. We know what stop hunting means and it doesn't matter if you have fixed or variable spread, because stop hunting doesn't occur with a bid/ask widening, but with a spike of both of them. I don't know how oanda works then I don't blame it of anything, but brokers know where traders' stops are and what happens if they (brokers) move their own quotes.
In fine I don't comment your fixed spread to trade the news
  • #7
  • Jul 9, 2008 2:54pm Jul 9, 2008 2:54pm
Everybody knows that MM runs for stop-huntig.

It's the easiest way to earn money from clients.
ForexFactory SUCKS.
  • #8
  • Jul 9, 2008 3:11pm Jul 9, 2008 3:11pm
Quoting Xaron
Please stop lying. Thanks.

Regards - Xaron
That's from the email :

"THE FOREIGN CURRENCY TRADING YOU ARE ENTERING INTO IS NOT CONDUCTED ON AN EXCHANGE. OANDA IS ACTING AS A COUNTERPARTY IN THESE TRANSACTIONS AND, THEREFORE, ACTS AS THE BUYER WHEN YOU SELL AND THE SELLER WHEN YOU BUY. AS A RESULT, OANDA'S INTERESTS MAY BE IN CONFLICT WITH YOURS. UNLESS OTHERWISE SPECIFIED IN YOUR WRITTEN AGREEMENT OR OTHER WRITTEN DOCUMENTS OANDA ESTABLISHES THE PRICES AT WHICH IT OFFERS TO TRADE WITH YOU. THE PRICES OANDA OFFERS MIGHT NOT BE THE BEST PRICES AVAILABLE. IF OANDA ELECTS NOT TO COVER ITS OWN TRADING EXPOSURE, THEN YOU SHOULD BE AWARE THAT OANDA MAY MAKE MORE MONEY IF THE MARKET GOES AGAINST YOU. ADDITIONALLY, SINCE OANDA ACTS AS THE BUYER OR SELLER IN THE TRANSACTION, YOU SHOULD CAREFULLY EVALUATE ANY TRADE RECOMMENDATIONS YOU RECEIVE FROM OANDA OR ANY OF ITS SOLICITORS."




Regards,

Pirin
  • #9
  • Jul 9, 2008 5:40pm Jul 9, 2008 5:40pm
Quoting Pirin
That's from the email :

"THE FOREIGN CURRENCY TRADING YOU ARE ENTERING INTO IS NOT CONDUCTED ON AN EXCHANGE. OANDA IS ACTING AS A COUNTERPARTY IN THESE TRANSACTIONS AND, THEREFORE, ACTS AS THE BUYER WHEN YOU SELL AND THE SELLER WHEN YOU BUY. AS A RESULT, OANDA'S INTERESTS MAY BE IN CONFLICT WITH YOURS. UNLESS OTHERWISE SPECIFIED IN YOUR WRITTEN AGREEMENT OR OTHER WRITTEN DOCUMENTS OANDA ESTABLISHES THE PRICES AT WHICH IT OFFERS TO TRADE WITH YOU. THE PRICES OANDA OFFERS MIGHT NOT BE THE BEST PRICES AVAILABLE. IF OANDA ELECTS NOT TO COVER ITS OWN TRADING EXPOSURE, THEN YOU SHOULD BE AWARE THAT OANDA MAY MAKE MORE MONEY IF THE MARKET GOES AGAINST YOU. ADDITIONALLY, SINCE OANDA ACTS AS THE BUYER OR SELLER IN THE TRANSACTION, YOU SHOULD CAREFULLY EVALUATE ANY TRADE RECOMMENDATIONS YOU RECEIVE FROM OANDA OR ANY OF ITS SOLICITORS."




Regards,

Pirin
All brokers under NFA have to send the exact same email (except for their company name) to their client. It's the rule. So that email doesn't weight much of anything.
  • #10
  • Jul 9, 2008 8:04pm Jul 9, 2008 8:04pm
Quoting Zen
All brokers under NFA have to send the exact same email (except for their company name) to their client. It's the rule. So that email doesn't weight much of anything.
They don't have to send it if isn't true.
  • #11
  • Jul 9, 2008 8:08pm Jul 9, 2008 8:08pm
Quoting Rolandlc33
Any broker that is using variable spreads can stop you out without giving an explanation. I always use fixed spread brokers because i trade the news on a regular basis. The spread never widens under any condition and i can enter or exit at will. I have trade 100 full lots at a time and never was stop hunted. In fact it got within 1 pip (trailing) and I never got stopped out. Oanda is good in certain instances, but certainly not for the large trader.
Who do you trade with?
  • #12
  • Jul 9, 2008 8:26pm Jul 9, 2008 8:26pm
I don't see stop hunting there. I see a sudden drop of 40 pips on the Oanda feed during a volatile NFP release. That's called slippage, it happens to everyone, and it's a completely different problem than stop hunting. If you trade the news and are troubled by Oanda's handling of slippage during news releases then by all means go with an ECN, but that is certainly not the same thing as stop hunting and certainly not unique to Oanda.

Stop hunting occurs, of course, but that occurs (in general) just as often outside of the broker as it does inside of it. There is no evidence here that Oanda itself stop hunts against it's own clients.

Quote
Any broker that is using variable spreads can stop you out without giving an explanation.

Not true. Spreads are paid on asks, so only if your stop loss is on the ask side... aka a short position, can you get stopped out on a variable spread. And only then if your stop loss is tighter than the spread change. A historical study of spreads over time could probably fix that. Of course you're welcome to pay commission-based fees instead of spreads if you'd like... or use a fixed-spread broker and settle for less-than-optimal fulfillment. There are trade-offs on everything.

Quote
That's from the email :

A standard disclaimer email as per the new ag bill requirements. Just about every "broker" on the net is a bucket shop twist, it's up to us to verify the prices we're being given.

Quote
All brokers under NFA have to send the exact same email (except for their company name) to their client. It's the rule. So that email doesn't weight much of anything.

Not all brokers, any broker that places all trades out to an exchange would not have to send one. But that means no micro or mini lots, it means no small accounts, it means higher transaction costs and generally worse execution.

There is no free lunch and no perfect broker. Don't compete on a broker's edge, you can't win that war. Play with your eyes open.
  • #13
  • Jul 10, 2008 1:03am Jul 10, 2008 1:03am
Quoting Rabid
I don't see stop hunting there. I see a sudden drop of 40 pips on the Oanda feed during a volatile NFP release. That's called slippage
That is not slippage, that's order-driven price manipulation for Oanda's benefit. The market was not volatile as can be seen from the other price feeds. The NFP release had already been and gone, spreads were more or less back to normal.

Slippage would be if you tried to platform arb the difference and got filled at 1.5695 which is exactly what would have happened, Oanda aren't stupid enough to leave themselves exposed to such risk.
  • #14
  • Jul 10, 2008 3:17am Jul 10, 2008 3:17am
Quoting billbss
They don't have to send it if isn't true.
And face NFA?
  • #15
  • Jul 10, 2008 9:41am Jul 10, 2008 9:41am
Quoting Zen
All brokers under NFA have to send the exact same email (except for their company name) to their client. It's the rule. So that email doesn't weight much of anything.
It doesn't matter why they've sent it. Someone called me a liar for mentioning the email, that's why I have posted it. The important subject here is that the broker is the counter party in our business and they win more when we lose. They have a motive and legal right to hunt stops. That's why people should watch out when they pick themselves a broker.
  • #16
  • Jul 10, 2008 10:29am Jul 10, 2008 10:29am
I read that they say they will reverse the trades in these situations if you ask them.It sure doesnt look good.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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  • #17
  • Jul 10, 2008 10:42am Jul 10, 2008 10:42am
Quoting Pirin
The important subject here is that the broker is the counter party in our business and they win more when we lose.
That email they had to send out makes a total mockery of what Oanda were saying this time last year....

"We fully hedge our clients' positions, so we have nothing to gain if you incur losses and we win if you trade profitably."

Oanda have become a standing joke in the business. Disconnections and ridiculously wide spreads across data, grossly manipulated quotes that don't appear on any other platform, frequently missed take-profit orders by 1/10th pip, stops taken out by mysterious spikes, slippage even in the quietest market conditions.

Sure it may all be legal but it doesn't make it right, they obviously place absolutely no value on things like integrity!
  • #18
  • Jul 10, 2008 10:44am Jul 10, 2008 10:44am
get use to it guys oanda not getting no better, you guys have false hopes. these problems been there from day one, they keep telling you guys that nothing is wrong, yeah right. they are geard to the small traders mino,micro and mini lot traders.
If I Go Broke Trying Then I Will die happy.
  • #19
  • Jul 10, 2008 8:00pm Jul 10, 2008 8:00pm
I've always try to convince my clients to drop the conspiracy theories:
Brokers/dealers don't stop hunt!!
People who think they do simply don't understand how the system works.

First of all, brokers/dealers hedge their net exposure as a whole, and they simply don't look at individual orders' SL to see which ones they can pick off. It would be impossible to run their business if they did. Brokers are earning their money not from trading, but from providing liquidity to the market, that is, by earning the spread. They have absolutely no reason to take out your orders by hunting your stops. The very notion is ludicrous and downright laughable to anyone who knows how brokerages actually work. The last thing they want to do is to lose your business.

Why does it seem like stops are being hunted? Simply because people always place their stops (visible or invisible) at the most obvious places, and the market always gravitates towards points of greatest volume. These obvious stop levels thus "attract" the market, because a lot of stop orders are stacked up there.

So, unless you're wiser about where you place stops, they're going to get hit anyway (even if they're invisible). The solution to not getting your stops taken out is not to make them invisible, but to be smarter about where you place stops!

Spreads widen when volatility increases (i.e. liquidity decreases). Or, sometimes, data feeds become corrupt and an artificial price spike results. If you believe spreads widened unreasonably or suffered an unusual price spike, and if you can demonstrate that spike was not present or spreads did not widen that much in another data feed, call up your broker and request that your trade be restored. I've done this one time with my broker (IBFX), and my friends do this with their brokers (e.g. FXCM). Any reputable broker will be happy to restore your trades, even if they can demonstrate that the bad spike or widened spreads were legitimately from their bank feeds.

(In my case, IBFX showed me that the same 100-pip spike was in the official Bloomberg feed, as well as several other brokers' feeds, but since I showed them a few brokers which did not show the same spike, they agreed to restore my trades which had been taken out due to the spike.)
Dave
  • #20
  • Jul 10, 2008 8:45pm Jul 10, 2008 8:45pm
1) in post 1, the price error could have been on the FXTrek side and not Oanda... we just assume it was on oanda based on the presentation of the post.

2) i don't agree with daveL's emphatic "Brokers/dealers don't stop hunt!" - you have no evidence that they don't, and there is plenty to support that they do.
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