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Andrews Pitchfork (Median Line)

  • #101
  • Jun 12, 2008 11:28pm Jun 12, 2008 11:28pm
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  • #102
  • Jun 13, 2008 6:52am Jun 13, 2008 6:52am
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  • #103
  • Jun 13, 2008 7:26pm Jun 13, 2008 7:26pm
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  • #104
  • Jun 14, 2008 11:02am Jun 14, 2008 11:02am
are you practicing or what?
why do u just post post-trades charts?
why don't you post pretrade charts with entries and exits??

anyone can flip through his charts and post charts like those here!
Enter Signature
  • #105
  • Jun 30, 2008 7:25pm Jun 30, 2008 7:25pm
Hey southernmind... don't pay any attention to that last poster. Obviously you DID post charts in advance of PA and they played out very nicely.

I like your analysis using PFs. Did you get training from Tim Morge or just study his site or work it out on your on by reading threads? The parallel lines are something I picked up from him, as well as Schiffs which are not built in to MT4... but I'm really still a novice at PFs. I'd appreciate any tips in future posts.

Here's a GJ chart with some interesting PFs. The Blue is a regular PF. The Cyan is the same points converted to a Modified Schiff (Median anchor point shifted by both 1/2 the price and 1/2 the time). That played out very nicely. Finally, the red PF was drawn as you see, and all 3 of them are providing points of reaction for PA. (birdt posted a similar chart I refer to in my post here: http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...ostcount=98009 )
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: GJ M15 Pitchforks 2008-06-30.jpg Size: 171 KB
  • #106
  • Jun 30, 2008 10:31pm Jun 30, 2008 10:31pm
Quoting justcatalin
This is my chart euro usd 4h timeframe
I expect euro to go at sliding paralel then up
does it make sense to have a sliding paralel if price never reaches those lines?...just wondering..also to the sliding lines have to be evenly seperated?
  • #107
  • Jun 30, 2008 11:06pm Jun 30, 2008 11:06pm
Quoting big_pipin
does it make sense to have a sliding paralel if price never reaches those lines?...just wondering..also to the sliding lines have to be evenly seperated?
Hi big_pipin,

Personally, I have found value in just drawing trendlines and copying them all over the chart keeping the slope the same. If you find a more-or-less resonant slope, then it will often play out many places in the chart. The spacing is often not even, but the closer to even spacing the better.

I do the above when it's not obvious how I should draw a pitchfork. However, if I am able to draw a pitchfork, then pretty much always if that pitchfork is going to be valid, then I better be able to spot some sliding parallels in the chart that match the PF slope. If the spacing is very regular, it is stronger proof the PF is valid, but irregular spacing is fine with me if that's the way it happens. There is something called the Hagopian's rule that suggests drawing sliding parallels at regular spacing IF the PA fails to reach one of the regular lines or regularly spaced parallels. You can explore the web to read up on it.
  • #108
  • Jun 30, 2008 11:17pm Jun 30, 2008 11:17pm
Over in the Auslanco GBPJPY thread, birdt posted the following chart and comments.

I'm posting it here to discuss whether or not he has drawn the "Schiff PF" correctly or not. Maybe I'm the one who is mistaken about a regular Schiff and I'd just like to clear it up for myself.

We agree on what a Modified Schiff is, where from point A to B to C, the medianline is drawn rather from point A (regular PF), instead it is drawn from a point 1/2 price and 1/2 the time between A to B.

A Regular Schiff -- I thought ??? -- is supposed to be the same time as A, but at the 1/2 price from A to B. There is a picture extracted from the original Andrew's material that I would give a link to but don't want to get in trouble but it's on a site by a trading naked guy. I will post a pic here. (NOT the guy, silly )

The way birdt drew his regular Shiff, he is drawing the medianline starting point at the time of A, and at the price of C. While that's an interesting way to draw it, that's different from what I expected.

Which is the right way to draw a regular Schiff PF?


From the other thread:
Quoting birdt
Hey Kent, good to hear from a fellow pitchfork user. Nice charts. There are three main methods I use to draw PF's - the standard Andrews' fork, the Schiff and the modified Schiff. I don't claim to be an expert but it's hard not to be taken back when you see price respecting these levels as frequently as they do, even more so on the higher time frames in my experience.

See if you can decipher this chart and see how they all played a part in todays price action, and the two that are in play at the moment. Difficult to pick a direction now although I am inclined to favour the short side, I'll see what forks are being respected in the morning.

blue = standard, red = modified Schiff, turquoise thick (in play) = Schiff,
magenta thick (in play) = retracement standard fork.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Andrews original PF and Schiff.jpg Size: 49 KB
Attached Image
  • #109
  • Jun 30, 2008 11:23pm Jun 30, 2008 11:23pm
For those of us who use MT4 charts, has anyone figured out a nice way to draw a regular PF, and then convert it precisely to a Modified Schiff (my favorite) or a regular Schiff PF?

My current method is to draw a non-ray trendline from A to B and then select the TL. The midpoint will be obvious. I then draw the PF so that the medianline passes exactly through that point which establishes the slope. If it so happens that I can anchor that line to some past PA, then so much the better but it's not required.

Any better way to use MT4 for Schiffs?

(By the way, there's another PF called an Inside PF, where you draw from the midpoint between A and B towards point C. You then draw 2 more parallel lines from points B and midpoint from B to C. Apparently it's useful when you have an extreme drop and then a relatively shallow retracement).
  • #110
  • Jul 1, 2008 12:05am Jul 1, 2008 12:05am
Quoting big_pipin
does it make sense to have a sliding paralel if price never reaches those lines?...just wondering..also do the sliding lines have to be evenly seperated?
big_pipin, and birdt,

Here's an example of my drawing parallel lines on a chart regardless of having a PF or not, and irrespective of regular spacing. I began doing this sometime in mid-to-late May and a PF wasn't immediately obvious to me at the time (It should have been, doh!). I drew the lines between obvious swing hi's and low's and looked for the resonance in the chart. I found it and drew a whole bunch of lines regardless of spacing. However, ONLY JUST NOW (drat) did I zoom out quite a bit and ask myself could I have drawn an official pitchfork (regular, Mod. Schiff or Schiff) which would have nearly the same resonant slope? The emphatic answer is Yes! The thick green Mod. Schiff PF fits almost perfectly. (It is slightly more pips-per-hour rise than my gray lines, but a mere round-off error).

Note that the thick red regular PF is the same regular PF as birdt drew on his recent chart. The resonant spacing between red lines is not, however, the same resonance as with the original green mod. schiff where the spacing is slightly wider.


Now my biggest question about the chart is this: What is so magical about that slope?? My gray lines are pretty close to 146 pips in 100 hours. I can't help but notice that 146 is pretty much like 14.6% (a common Fibo number). I also can't help but note that 146 is virtually 144, one of the Gann square numbers. I note that 144 = 12x12, and 100 = 10x10. I have heard -- but do not understand what it means -- that when time squared and price squared meet, change is inevitable (paraphrased from Gann I think).

I know there is a huge clue here that ties both time and price together in a grid but I don't yet know how to put it all together and take advantage of it. (I bet gene22 knows). This is the GJ pair, one of the most volatile, but surely each pair has their own resonant pips per hour, right? Somebody knows what I'm talking about and I would sure appreciate some clarity on the subject.

Let's get this thread going again, and thanks in advance for any ideas, discussion, etc.

Kent (Pips4life)
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: GJ H1 resonant lines.jpg Size: 186 KB
  • #111
  • Jul 1, 2008 12:13am Jul 1, 2008 12:13am
pips4life...with that many lines, HOW can you possible trade without saying to yourself.."price might reverse here" every time it goes up or down 20 pips or whatever it may be?...Not to mention you have horizontal s/r lines as well. On a chart like that, why not just draw a regular fork and trade off the 3 lines of the fork?
  • #112
  • Jul 1, 2008 12:17am Jul 1, 2008 12:17am
Here is a chart for gbp/jpy on a 15min, but it shows an example of how i use the sliding paralel lines. Here price penetrated the fork, so I took a sliding line and made a new "fork" or more like a channel for price to trade inside of.
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  • #113
  • Jul 1, 2008 1:44am Jul 1, 2008 1:44am
Quoting big_pipin
pips4life...with that many lines, HOW can you possible trade without saying to yourself.."price might reverse here" every time it goes up or down 20 pips or whatever it may be?...Not to mention you have horizontal s/r lines as well. On a chart like that, why not just draw a regular fork and trade off the 3 lines of the fork?
Indeed, it's not easy to know what to do with so many lines, but I did find them helpful. A formal PF would have added more confidence, but even so, you still never know if a regular PF line will bounce or cross. Sometimes the parallels had far more previous confirmation and they played out as strong or stronger than the formal PF lines.

However, I hope I made the point clearly that I had not initially realized how I should draw a formal PF from specific points when I first drew my lines. I was just drawing lines as a study of whether I can identify a resonant slope or not. It was not mere coincidence that the slope ended up matching a formally drawn Modified Schiff PF. I do wish I'd drawn that PF sooner, but I missed seeing it before. The Red PF in the top right of PA demonstates that one can draw multiple PFs that have the same slope but which have different spacing between lines.
  • #114
  • Jul 1, 2008 2:03am Jul 1, 2008 2:03am
Hi pips4life,

please read the attachment and you'll find answers re. how to use parallel lines (called Warning Lines), in which case you need to slide parallel lines as well as Hagopian's Rule (in case you don't have the same info).

Cheers,
Attached File(s)
File Type: doc Median Line.doc   175 KB | 2,339 downloads
  • #115
  • Jul 1, 2008 5:03am Jul 1, 2008 5:03am
Just for the record, the correct way to draw the Schiff as laid out by Andrews is to draw the origin from the midpoint of price between points A and B, the modification that I have made to draw the origin from the midpoint of both time and price is one that I made myself. There was some logic behind this, although whether it performs any better or worse I am yet to see.

Here's a chart of what I've been seeing this morning on GJ. I still see no clear direction either way but there is opportunity to profit on the lower time frames.

Also, if anyone wants a good text to learn the basics of pitchforks and action/reaction theory you can download from here:

http://www.mediafire.com/?wgz2tt1yn2m
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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  • #116
  • Jul 1, 2008 6:26am Jul 1, 2008 6:26am
Hi all,

I have an e-book related to the topic as well..hope u guys like it.
http://www.zshare.net/download/10958571ddf6fbc6/

Quoting birdt
Just for the record, the correct way to draw the Schiff as laid out by Andrews is to draw the origin from the midpoint of price between points A and B, the modification that I have made to draw the origin from the midpoint of both time and price is one that I made myself. There was some logic behind this, although whether it performs any better or worse I am yet to see.

Here's a chart of what I've been seeing this morning on GJ. I still see no clear direction either way but there is opportunity to profit on the lower time frames.

Also, if anyone wants a good text to learn the basics of pitchforks and action/reaction theory you can download from here:

http://www.mediafire.com/?wgz2tt1yn2m
  • #117
  • Jul 1, 2008 7:48am Jul 1, 2008 7:48am
How do you guys that use forks time your entrys?

do you go to a smaller time frame, use some kind of indicator...?

thanks
  • #118
  • Jul 1, 2008 8:10am Jul 1, 2008 8:10am
I use a few methods of timing the entries but mostly try and play the peaks and troughs using the Joe Ross Hook or Traders Trick Entry after price action on or nearby the pitchfork levels on lower time frames. This way I can normally squeeze out a small profit or get the SL to break even so if I am wrong then I cover my back.

Here's a trade that I am looking at now on EU. There is a good chance I will not enter it but the R:R looks good and there are a few signs that the pitchforks I have drawn are being respected. The idea of the trade is on the 1H chart. I will enter if we turn down below the last peak on the 15m (forming a 1-2-3) and ideally this will occur near the green upper pitchfork parallel line. If not, then I'll let it go and look for another trade.
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  • #119
  • Jul 1, 2008 9:02am Jul 1, 2008 9:02am
follow on to EU:


PS. News didn't hurt either, daytrade target (TP1) hit.
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  • #120
  • Jul 1, 2008 9:24am Jul 1, 2008 9:24am
A note on using Ross Traders Trick Entry and pitchforks:
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