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Attachments: 5k into 28k in 17 days -- testing a new strategy
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5k into 28k in 17 days -- testing a new strategy

  • #21
  • May 19, 2008 4:28pm May 19, 2008 4:28pm
Hey, many people (esp. tdion) say the market is random so this system has as good a chance as any. Prividing some money management is used that is!

Good luck and

MAY THE FORCE BE WITH YOU

max
Gravity goes both ways in forex...
  • #22
  • May 19, 2008 6:09pm May 19, 2008 6:09pm
Quoting melpheos
Are we reading the same statement ?

I see several trade open and closed the same day so how come a swap could cause this ?

591615 2008.05.16 17:05 sell 5.00 eurusd 1.5501 0.0000 1.5494 2008.05.16 23:59 1.5595 0.00 0.00 0.00 -4 700.00

And there is losses all over the place...

Are you sure you are not a copycat of Holy Grail ?
Good point melpheos.

Maybe he will try to sell us something later (signals)?

Losses are a part of the game.
  • #23
  • May 19, 2008 7:28pm May 19, 2008 7:28pm
Oddball: Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?
Moriority: Crap!

On a serious note.Do you have the 'cojones' (mixing cultures here) to trade this methodology w/ real money. This one 'Negative wave' guy is nothing compared to the negativitry your gonna feel when the person on the other side of your trade is losing. LOL

Good luck to you either way.

Quoting Nazar
Today's statement is attached for your convenience.
By now it's already 32k.
The big drawdown over the weekend is the result of going public, IMHO.
My Friday's decisions were influenced by the forum reaction to my previous posts. There is one person here with rather bad energy (I'm not going to tell who, but it's one of the posters in this thread). The rest (including the mockers) are generally OK. But my mind was sorely hit by that bad one... It took some time for me to regain the balance, still I think it was a good idea to make those posts and share the info.
Thank you.
In trading, there is no bullshit. You either make money or you don't.
  • #24
  • May 19, 2008 7:39pm May 19, 2008 7:39pm
Quoting Nazar
Today's statement is attached for your convenience.
By now it's already 32k.
The big drawdown over the weekend is the result of going public, IMHO.
My Friday's decisions were influenced by the forum reaction to my previous posts. There is one person here with rather bad energy (I'm not going to tell who, but it's one of the posters in this thread). The rest (including the mockers) are generally OK. But my mind was sorely hit by that bad one... It took some time for me to regain the balance, still I think it was a good idea to make those posts and share the info.
Thank you.
Have you tried to wear a tinfoil hat to shield the negative vibes on the FF board?
  • #25
  • May 19, 2008 7:47pm May 19, 2008 7:47pm
Quoting shrike
Have you tried to wear a tinfoil hat to shield the negative vibes on the FF board?
Those will just make it worse.

Tin Foil Hats Found to Amplify, Not Reduce, Government 'Mind-Control' Signals

Tin foil hats on, everyone - or maybe not. Tests carried out by MIT students have found that tin foil hats actually amplify 'government mind control' signals sent at frequencies which match those allocated to the US government.
Several hat designs were looked at and "a 30 db amplification at 2.6 Ghz and a 20 db amplification at 1.2 Ghz, regardless of the position of the antenna on the cranium" was found.
The students suggest that the government itself may have spread the rumour that the hats protect individuals from incomming transmissions in order to enhance their mind control programme.
In trading, there is no bullshit. You either make money or you don't.
  • #26
  • May 19, 2008 8:32pm May 19, 2008 8:32pm
Quoting mrgreen
Those will just make it worse.

Tin Foil Hats Found to Amplify, Not Reduce, Government 'Mind-Control' Signals

Tin foil hats on, everyone - or maybe not. Tests carried out by MIT students have found that tin foil hats actually amplify 'government mind control' signals sent at frequencies which match those allocated to the US government.
Several hat designs were looked at and "a 30 db amplification at 2.6 Ghz and a 20 db amplification at 1.2 Ghz, regardless of the position of the antenna on the cranium" was found.
The students suggest that the government itself may have spread the rumour that the hats protect individuals from incomming transmissions in order to enhance their mind control programme.
Are you just trying to spread false rumors about the tin foil hat? Did they get to you too?

http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/5...spiracywd6.jpg
Not all sins are created equal
  • #27
  • May 20, 2008 12:09am May 20, 2008 12:09am
Quoting melpheos
Are we reading the same statement ?

I see several trade open and closed the same day so how come a swap could cause this ?

591615 2008.05.16 17:05 sell 5.00 eurusd 1.5501 0.0000 1.5494 2008.05.16 23:59 1.5595 0.00 0.00 0.00 -4 700.00

And there is losses all over the place...

Are you sure you are not a copycat of Holy Grail ?

The reference you mention is a swap. See the time -- 2008.05.16 23:59. Every trade closed at 23.59 is a swap. It is done automatically by my dealer.

As far as I can see, the losses are there only on the swaps. Show me some other, if you find them.

I myself haven't closed a single trade with a loss.

I'd heard about Holy Grail (as related to Forex) the first time in my life about a fortnight ago here on FF. Haven't even gone deeply into what it really is.

*****

I'm not trying to sell anything to anyone here. Try me. I've experimented with Jyotish and Samyama since over 15 years, but I don't do it for money per definitio.

*****

Regarding the losses being a part of the game -- I don't think so. My approach is -- I don't go for the loss. If the system wants to break me -- let it do this on its own. I risk with all my investment.

Though I do agree that it might work out differently (also energetically and/or psychologically) once real money is in play.

Regarding the negative vibes I might get when other people lose because of my trades: these vibes would not be directed to me personally. I interact with the system -- it's the ocean. Those who lose can curse the ocean, if they like. The ocean has the power and depth to take their curses -- I don't.

Another point -- I don't trade for money. Those who go for money -- they lose. I trade for experience and self-improvement. If I win, my pledge to God is to use it to the benefit of increasing the wisdom and knowledge, both my own and that of others, if applicable.

Thanks everyone for participation. Some comments are very helpful indeed. And the bad vibes haven't shown up since my last posts. This all looks very bright.
  • #28
  • May 20, 2008 4:48am May 20, 2008 4:48am
Quoting Nazar
The reference you mention is a swap. See the time -- 2008.05.16 23:59. Every trade closed at 23.59 is a swap. It is done automatically by my dealer.

As far as I can see, the losses are there only on the swaps. Show me some other, if you find them.
Then i suggest you use a real broker that do not close your orders at 00:00. I think you will have a big surprise !
  • #29
  • May 20, 2008 5:36am May 20, 2008 5:36am
I say we all chip in and put Nazar on cable TV with Donald Trump selling the system.
History is written by the victors.
  • #30
  • May 20, 2008 5:56am May 20, 2008 5:56am
Quoting melpheos
Then i suggest you use a real broker that do not close your orders at 00:00. I think you will have a big surprise !
I don't see what's your problem, man. It's a standard procedure. It's done the very same way on the real accounts (at least by my bank). Every midnight the bank closes all orders and reopens them again at the current midnight price (without spreads). It's also known as a rollover. It's done so that the bank does not have pending obligations for longer than 1 working day. I thought you were an experienced Forex trader and knew all this much better than me -- a novice...

All the orders are preserved throughout the rollover procedure. The same TP and SL values remain, only the account balance changes to reflect the swap. Also some swap (or rollover) points are added or subtracted from the swap price.

All (with no exceptions) trades I started were profitable.

A real loss in my system would be when my margin would drop down below the minimum allowed level. Then the order would be closed by my dealer through the stop out procedure, which involves a real loss on my side. This, however, has not occurred so far...

Thanks for the input.
  • #31
  • Edited 6:43am May 20, 2008 6:19am | Edited 6:43am
Quoting Nazar
I don't see what's your problem, man. It's a standard procedure. It's done the very same way on the real accounts (at least by my bank). Every midnight the bank closes all orders and reopens them again at the current midnight price (without spreads). It's also known as a rollover. It's done so that the bank does not have pending obligations for longer than 1 working day. I thought you were an experienced Forex trader and knew all this much better than me -- a novice...

All the orders are preserved throughout the rollover procedure. The same TP and SL values remain, only the account balance changes to reflect the swap. Also some swap (or rollover) points are added or subtracted from the swap price.

All (with no exceptions) trades I started were profitable.

A real loss in my system would be when my margin would drop down below the minimum allowed level. Then the order would be closed by my dealer through the stop out procedure, which involves a real loss on my side. This, however, has not occurred so far...

Thanks for the input.
My broker dont do this and probably most broker dont do this and in fact i've never heard of any broker doing this...

Also all your trade are profitable but you can't know for sure as you have never suffered a margin call like you said and you dont use stop loss !

For exemple this two trades : 574484 2008.05.12 15:53 sell 2.00 eurusd 1.5452 0.0000 1.5435 2008.05.12 23:59 1.5551 0.00 0.00 0.00 -1 980.00
573966 2008.05.12 12:47 sell 2.00 eurusd 1.5441 0.0000 1.5435 2008.05.12 23:59 1.5551 0.00 0.00 0.00 -2 200.00

At that time you had around 10k of equity.
This two trades went up to -100 pips each making an average 4000$ potential loss that is 40% risk on your equity on basically ONE trade ! Are you honestly ready to see on a real account a potential loss of 4000 real $ ?
Do you even calculate your risk/trade on each trade ? Do you set a max SL ? In both case i really doubt so.

And for my experience, thanks... But i trade with real money not some virtual money.

All i say is that your risk/trade is too high, your potential return risk/loss is too high and that your system will fail rather quickly.

edit : small correction, your trade went up to -110 and - 120 that is 46% so you had a 46% drawdown at that time. And if not closed in profit the next day @ +40 you would have atm 8000$ drawdown...
  • #32
  • May 20, 2008 6:54am May 20, 2008 6:54am
Quoting melpheos
...
Also all your trade are profitable but you can't know for sure as you have never suffered a margin call because your broker closes the order everyday and you dont use stop loss !
...
edit : small correction, your trade went up to -110 and - 120 that is 46% so you had a 46% drawdown at that time. And if not closed in profit the next day @ +40 you would have atm 8000$ drawdown...

Well, banks do use this procedure. I've never traded via a broker, so I don't really know much about how they do it. But I think banks are more trustworthy.

My bank also has a margin call. It's at 30% of equity. If my orders dropped below this level, no swaps would save me...

Once you understand the swap procedure, you'll see that it does not change or improve anything in my situation. Its only purpose is to free the bank from pending obligations. And I suspect that only with a bank can one be really sure that trades you make are executed in real time on the market with all the leverage declared. That's why a bank must have a swap. They can not hold hundreds of millions in pending deals indefinitely long. This is real trade. A broker, on the other hand, might use a more virtual scheme, reckoning only accordingly to the final outcomes (and maybe eventually manipulating the quotes to suit its own profitability).

No offense with your experience. We all get our experience in different ways. And I'm a novice in Forex trading. Yes, I totally agree that real money is different, requires more maturity, discipline and deeper calculation. But I have some special experience in life management. And I apply my proven methods, so far successfully...

You say "... if not closed in profit the next day @ +40 you would have atm 8000$ drawdown ...". -- Well, yes, but I did close them in profit the next day. And my margin was enough to save me from the stop out. So, both the trades you mention were profitable.

Any more doubts?
  • #33
  • May 20, 2008 7:32am May 20, 2008 7:32am
Quoting Nazar
Well, banks do use this procedure. I've never traded via a broker, so I don't really know much about how they do it. But I think banks are more trustworthy.

My bank also has a margin call. It's at 30% of equity. If my orders dropped below this level, no swaps would save me...

Once you understand the swap procedure, you'll see that it does not change or improve anything in my situation. Its only purpose is to free the bank from pending obligations. And I suspect that only with a bank can one be really sure that trades you make are executed in real time on the market with all the leverage declared. That's why a bank must have a swap. They can not hold hundreds of millions in pending deals indefinitely long. This is real trade. A broker, on the other hand, might use a more virtual scheme, reckoning only accordingly to the final outcomes (and maybe eventually manipulating the quotes to suit its own profitability).

No offense with your experience. We all get our experience in different ways. And I'm a novice in Forex trading. Yes, I totally agree that real money is different, requires more maturity, discipline and deeper calculation. But I have some special experience in life management. And I apply my proven methods, so far successfully...

You say "... if not closed in profit the next day @ +40 you would have atm 8000$ drawdown ...". -- Well, yes, but I did close them in profit the next day. And my margin was enough to save me from the stop out. So, both the trades you mention were profitable.

Any more doubts?
Still doubts, what was you profit/risk expectation for this specific trade ?
At what level of loss did you planned to close the trade ?

I now have a maximum of risk/trade of 1% and i started with 5%. I reduced this %age as my account growth and i plan to reduce it to 0.5% in a few month if my equity is big enough.

You can ask any long time traders here and i really doubt that they use more than 2-3% risk/trade (and in this case, it would be a trader with a very high success rate ratio )
  • #34
  • May 20, 2008 7:42am May 20, 2008 7:42am
Great thread,

I love this, its where the unexperienced meet the cynical, trading is a game of probabilities and risk control, anyone who tells you different is not a trader, they are a lamb.

You can toss a coin and enter the market and make money provided your stop management and profit targets are correct.

I just took on my first student and this is a learning curve for me as its my first student. I must make my analysis of the market prior to sending it across to my student. But guess what, my trading has gone in a quantum leap, because I am now sticking to my own trading rules and only looking for the highest probability trades I can find. Sure I was making money before, but now that has gone crazy, its like the market is filling up my account like a river. It really is a great feeling, because it is the feeeling of freedom. I learnt more about myself teaching someone else.

You can make 400-500 dollars a day from a small account of say 8,000 dollars, I do and it took me 2 years to do it. You all can do it. I started out as we all do losing money, it seems the market is all against you, its not its you against you!

We all make the same mistake to begin with, we let loosing trades run, and we take our profit as soon as we can. Net result is a loss, no system in the world can save you from that, unless its 100%, which no system is.

Losses are part of trading, like any business you have costs, trading is a business like any other, in any business you control risk and costs. Thats the key to winning at trading, I pick tops and bottoms, and I am pretty good at it!

But I am wrong sometimes, but that does not worry me as my stops are micro small 10-15 points, my targets are always 50-500 points depending on the time frame I am trading and my stops are bought to break even +2 once the market moves my way. The worst is I get stopped out for a 2 point profit.

So on this strategy, although on paper it looks real fine, you cannot take larger losses then profits, the mechanics of it will fail in the end, as markets move in waves you will mostly always be back to your start point at some time, but can you really let a massive loss just ride, that would depress me no end.

However, let the man show us a new direction and let the results speak for themselves.

smalldog
  • #35
  • May 21, 2008 5:55am May 21, 2008 5:55am
My account is finally back to the original 5k (with a little help on my part), and I'm happy to feel free to direct my attention to some other business. 'twas about time. Thanks everyone for participation, I enjoyed the conversation.
  • #36
  • May 21, 2008 6:29am May 21, 2008 6:29am
Quoting Nazar
My account is finally back to the original 5k (with a little help on my part), and I'm happy to feel free to direct my attention to some other business. 'twas about time. Thanks everyone for participation, I enjoyed the conversation.
Back to the 5k? What happened?
The market reveals who we really are...
  • #37
  • May 21, 2008 8:46am May 21, 2008 8:46am
Quoting shadowninja
Back to the 5k? What happened?
maybe something went wrong as predicted... Using so much leverage on an account can only lead to failure if you dont have a 100% safe proof strategy (this is called the holy grail and as such do not exists)
  • #38
  • May 21, 2008 9:39am May 21, 2008 9:39am
Quoting melpheos
maybe something went wrong as predicted... Using so much leverage on an account can only lead to failure if you dont have a 100% safe proof strategy (this is called the holy grail and as such do not exists)
The pressure was too high. Plexus celiacus was heavily overloaded. I had to let it go. Actually, I wanted it to fail already since over a week, as focusing most of my energy on the Forex charts started becoming quite boring and limiting. But I wanted to see how far can one actually bring it within reasonable limits. Since yesterday the pressure became annoyingly permanent, my eyes started burning (though I didn't even spend too much time at the PC). Most of the last night was sleepless (which hasn't happened to me since many years). This morning I was rather knocked out. Two deals finally dropped below the margin call around noon. I felt great relief having noticed this after lunch, as this was a reason enough for me to free my attention from the issue. I happily closed the other deals myself without further waiting or hesitating.

Thanks.

P.S. My opinion: money can fool you for quite a long time -- some people spend their whole life running after it. If you do more risk control, you just prolong the whole story. If your risk control saves you from abrupt account losses, it will steal your time, energy and attention instead. It's just a different kind of a mind prison...

See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambler%27s_ruin in this context.
  • #39
  • May 21, 2008 10:07am May 21, 2008 10:07am
its so risky
  • #40
  • May 22, 2008 3:48am May 22, 2008 3:48am
The old mechanics of risk and reward strike again. In a way this had to fail as the markets don't let you take unlimited risks. You can try to predict the future, and when you are right you make money and when you are wrong you lose.

The money I make from trading I want to use to help other people have a better life, the poor, homeless, hungry. I certainly don't see my pursuit of the markets as a prison as Nazar says let me quote you all a phrase that is often incorrectly quoted "The love of money is the root of all evil". To chase money for the sake of money is wrong.

However, the freedom you can give to people to have a life by letting them take money from the markets is amazing. Knowing that you will never have to starve, have a roof over your head, or money worries allows you to free your mind from your own worries, and help others which I believe makes us better.

Sorry, it did not work Nazar, but work it out then use your power to help others.


Smalldog
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