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Making an EA: "Simple Method of Scalping any pair by Imran Sait"

  • #21
  • May 19, 2008 7:22am May 19, 2008 7:22am
I had been searching for an EA based on this strategy, however there isn't any at the moment. I was planning to seek programmers to help me out with it until i saw this thread.

I traded the system on a 1h TF and I used Chandra's Alert to help me look out for a setup. I used a 1h TF because I am looking at entering only 1-3 trades in a day.

Just to share my experience; i had been using the system to trade since nov 2007, and the results were great! I feel like i wouldn't want to take a look at any other system. Unfortunately, back in February i havent got much time trading like how i used to before as i was busy with my day job etc. Since then, I had been making trades based on emotions and most of the time i got myself in a good trade, but just to turn out bad in the end.

Conclusion, I believe an EA will take care most of the problems, like handling of emotions and discipline in money management and many more.

I have no knowledge about programming but if there is anything that I can do/contribute to make this EA a success, please let me know.

I am really looking forward to see this EA comes to live!
  • #22
  • May 19, 2008 10:49am May 19, 2008 10:49am
nidzam-

Great! You are perfect for the team because you will be able to share your trading system and also have a final goal of a fully automated autotrader while you are at work. Please PM me your email, I will start to get a group email going of the people involved.

Traders that are interested in contributing to make this work, post a similar reply...your experience with it, how you think you may contribute (maybe you are a good backtester), why you are interested in a fully automated program, etc. Then PM me with your email.

I think the hardest part will be getting the right motivated people involved and coming up with a solid basic strategy down that all team members can agree to because inevitably we all have different setups, but learning from each other we will be able to make one that everyone feels will be a good version of it. Once that is established, then things will be easier as it will be just programming, debugging, adding/removing stuff to the program, running it and just viewing the results. The plan is to first decide on one time frame and market and then eventually keep improving it by including many and sticking to ones that produce results. We can include not to trade during specific news hours for the program if that is what we decide. Since that varies, we'll be talking about what news to pay attention to, etc, you'll put in the parameters, and then go to work with the auto program taking care of certain news by itself.

Thanks! Please offer suggestions...like I said it's my first time doing this through a forum.

jd
  • #23
  • May 19, 2008 1:48pm May 19, 2008 1:48pm
I just got a private message concerning a member that has worked with this system and another system that seems to work really good as well. We will probably end up collaborating to figure out which might be best to work on first or possibly integrate together. Another option later would be to have both systems running concurrently at the same time. We will figure all this out once we get a team of people going to all work on this together.

Thanks,
jd
  • #24
  • May 19, 2008 2:55pm May 19, 2008 2:55pm
Jdtrader....

Best of luck with this project!

I too believe this could be made into an EA. However, just in case you haven't had the time to wade through the 7,000+ posts on Imran's thread, there are a couple of things I would like to bring up.

This is not meant to be negative...as I said, I think this is doable. Several other people have tried and failed to develop a successful EA based on the Imran strategy. The reason given was always that there is too much human discretion involved...placement, direction, slope of the MA's, price in relation to pivot points, support & resistance, etc. It would be terrific if you could overcome those obstacles.

If you search the thread for posts by FX_Ninja, I think you will find he had an excellent grasp on the Imran concept and additional filters he personally used.

I am the testing coordinator for another system and would like to offer my services to this project. The procedure used for that system involves setting up ftp accounts on my hosting server (I can have an unlimited number of accounts). "SET" files from the programmer are then distributed to the various testers and they run their demo accounts and 'publish' the results every five minutes. A web page is available to each tester that lists the tester name, set file assigned and a link to the published pages. For this to be meaningful, of course, everyone needs to use the same pairs, TF's, starting account balance, leverage, etc.

Let me know if you would like to do something similar and I will set up the accounts whenever you are ready.

For those interested in backtesting with 90% modeling quality, I have attached a document explaining how to do so. This is nothing new for experienced traders but may be of use to those who haven't done much backtesting.
Attached File(s)
File Type: txt backtesting.txt   5 KB | 3,663 downloads
  • #25
  • Edited 3:50pm May 19, 2008 3:28pm | Edited 3:50pm
is this thing profitable? Also, how do you determine S/r after the crosses?
Pivot level? and on which broker do you calculate the pivots ... the close times can vary a number of hours.. I was reading below:

"The reason given was always that there is too much human discretion involved...placement, direction, slope of the MA's, price in relation to pivot points, support & resistance, etc. It would be terrific if you could overcome those obstacles." ..

hmmm..... Based on imrans original strategy... that is not needed as the times are listed. Also, it looks like red / blu lag...
---- Not sure if this would ever be profitable like that. I think though, overall it has 3 or 4 trades to work on to test.
someone s/b able to code this in a hour or two max.
Attached File(s)
File Type: pdf 5min_trade_strategy_imransait_ver1[1].2.pdf   308 KB | 1,425 downloads
  • #26
  • May 19, 2008 4:55pm May 19, 2008 4:55pm
orion70-

I haven't gone through all the posts...I went through 50 pages yesterday, got a headache and went to bed. Then I read a few of the last postings.

Don't worry about negativity, honesty is always best and having potential negative aspects is key so we can deal through them as opposed to something unexpected later. I've heard from a few now not just you that there have been developments and then failed. Firstly, not to down MetaTrader because I've used it almost a year now in addition to my main charting and development tools, but there is a lot of limitation on what you can program. On the other hand, in my opinion, it's A+ for backtesting and some other things. I would be developing it like I have setup my other autotrader, very similar to how large institutions do it. Basically without getting into too much detail and making you guys read forever (this is already going to be a long posting), I would be building the actual indicators, building the bars, etc tick by tick...whatever is necessary that is necessary for the strategy to signal. For example, if doji and other specific candles are needed in the system, in java (not through metatrader), I would have an indication flag if a doji formed. I would be pulling data not through metatrader but directly from the broker’s servers. This is more advanced, but it's what I've been doing and it's what the big boys use (some of my current traders at the board of trade and mercantile exchange). You basically eliminate the middle man then and I guarantee you if we have the same exact strategy automated, mine will fill first (if you are using an EA for metatrader). But this is where speed is very important. I had a strategy where orders would fly all over in milliseconds during various news from forexfactory calendar that would come out. Initially, the plan is to get the basic strategy down, get certain values from metatrader and if things look good and we have something down, then development that stuff in the code and not using metatrader. The connection is then more direct and the unnecessary processes by metatrader would be uneeded.

To get to your human discretion concern...everything can be programmed and here's why, price in relation to pivot points, support & resistance, direction, slope, etc MetaTrader does this (it's a charting software developed). You can do the same thing in the program (basically a charting system, trading system, etc all in one minus nice charts and a very nice interface). These obstacles in my opinion are not really a problem. You can get into great detail like orders that are sitting in the book, or lets say execute something specially when a large order enters the pipeline or fills generate something as opposed to just what the candle is doing. There will be a lot of testing done by the team though, that's for sure. For example, let's say it's running, 4 people agree with the exit, but 5 don't....well why? Maybe one didn't like the support 5 pips away, maybe another didn't like that BB was narrowing, etc. We would review everyone's opinion and come up with an agreement from all of our knowledge on what we should look for: it may be a combination of a few of these with certain degrees of importance on each one. It can be 50+ confirmations if we wanted to in case that would yield a higher rate of return with a lot less trades. That's okay because several timeframes and markets can be monitored every time a tick occurs on any of those markets. Don't get me wrong, this is not going to be done on first release, it will be a continuing team project with very high potential.

The massive potential is there, but even if it isn’t, it will yield some return. In the end, even single digit pips a week yield much larger return than the best consistent general mutual fund out there. I would rather have my money in something like this as I do now, work, but make higher returns. If it’s more than a few pips a week, then that would obviously be great and I may go back to doing this full time.

I also want to mention here again is that this is all team driven. For those that develop by themselves (research, testing, programming) it’s a daunting task doing it alone…markets change too frequently for it to be successful all the time. Plus all the knowledge from expert forex gurus into one can be incredible. We will generate much better this way. If I’m programming I don’t have time to keep up with the threads, if I’m backtesting I don’t have time to look at other indicators that traders are using now that are doing good, etc. This can become big and everything starts small in any type of project or business. All my friend traders are not forex, so that is why I figured I’d try to get some people from forexfactory in this. Forex is all online based, so that's why I'm reaching out online.

Looks like FX_Ninja can be an asset, please mention this thread to him. We don’t want someone involved if they don’t want to be though or have way too much on their hands.

The setting up accounts is a possibility. More detail on how we can get the ball rolling and how we should set it up will come directly to the team members email addresses and we will go from there to decide. This is great though, thanks for the questions and looking forward to working with you.

Thanks,
jd


Quoting orion70
Jdtrader....

Best of luck with this project!

I too believe this could be made into an EA. However, just in case you haven't had the time to wade through the 7,000+ posts on Imran's thread, there are a couple of things I would like to bring up.

This is not meant to be negative...as I said, I think this is doable. Several other people have tried and failed to develop a successful EA based on the Imran strategy. The reason given was always that there is too much human discretion involved...placement, direction, slope of the MA's, price in relation to pivot points, support & resistance, etc. It would be terrific if you could overcome those obstacles.

If you search the thread for posts by FX_Ninja, I think you will find he had an excellent grasp on the Imran concept and additional filters he personally used.

I am the testing coordinator for another system and would like to offer my services to this project. The procedure used for that system involves setting up ftp accounts on my hosting server (I can have an unlimited number of accounts). "SET" files from the programmer are then distributed to the various testers and they run their demo accounts and 'publish' the results every five minutes. A web page is available to each tester that lists the tester name, set file assigned and a link to the published pages. For this to be meaningful, of course, everyone needs to use the same pairs, TF's, starting account balance, leverage, etc.

Let me know if you would like to do something similar and I will set up the accounts whenever you are ready.

For those interested in backtesting with 90% modeling quality, I have attached a document explaining how to do so. This is nothing new for experienced traders but may be of use to those who haven't done much backtesting.
  • #27
  • May 19, 2008 4:58pm May 19, 2008 4:58pm
  •  Derm
  • | Joined Aug 2007 | Status: It's all about The Pips | 42 Posts
I would be very interested in helping to make an EA for this system.

I have used Imran's system combined with another here on FF with great success.

This should be fun!
  • #28
  • May 19, 2008 5:21pm May 19, 2008 5:21pm
Good question...it looks to be profitable minus some last few negative posts on that thread. But the reason why the strategy intrigues me is because there has been multiple people being successful with it on different time frames and markets. That's huge for me because I don't come across something like this that much. Having a strategy that works great on one market, working so hard on it and then having to start all over for another market is a lot of work. This can be a great starter. But like I said, when we get to the point of possibly integrating multiple strategies in one, then it just becomes a hedge system for you, which is great.

Pivot points can be calculated so many different ways. We would discuss that if it's needed and decide which calculation to use. Also, I wouldn't be getting the pivot points from metatrader eventually. I would gather all ticks from the broker's server for the past x timeframe and the program would calculate them. This way, all team members have the same results. If initially we don't know if we would use pivot points, then instead of coding all that, for testing it would be input values for the program to run off of.

Somebody to code this in a hour or two max? You mean the backtesting of the red and blue lag? Possibly, I really don't know because I haven't developed a backtesting for metatrader before, only through other software. This is an example of a team member or group of guys looking into this while others do something else.

Also, I want to mention that you don't HAVE to know any programming to be part of the team. The programmers on it may just end up doing some metatrader stuff. I'm looking for people that have the time, motivation, and forex experience to come up with some great ideas, be on the ball, etc. Having a mixed group like this as opposed to some programmers and testers is what will make this unique. It's almost like a lot of trading firms start out with several guys with their own specialties contributing in different but great ways. Then sometimes the trading firm grows. When I was a trader at the CME, I probably would have made 10% of what I made then. We call stuff out, it's very different working as a team on stuff like this. I remember 25 of us made $96,000 in 45min of opening of NYSE one day. One person caught one of the indices and called it out. We were all on top of it. No way you can be on top of EVERYTHING all by yourself...it always pays off educationally and monetarily in the end as a team. This will be unique though because it's all through online, emails, and people around the world. Maybe if we make it big one day we'll all celebrate on a yacht

Thanks,
jd

Quoting 4XWeezal
is this thing profitable? Also, how do you determine S/r after the crosses?
Pivot level? and on which broker do you calculate the pivots ... the close times can vary a number of hours.. I was reading below:

"The reason given was always that there is too much human discretion involved...placement, direction, slope of the MA's, price in relation to pivot points, support & resistance, etc. It would be terrific if you could overcome those obstacles." ..

hmmm..... Based on imrans original strategy... that is not needed as the times are listed. Also, it looks like red / blu lag...
---- Not sure if this would ever be profitable like that. I think though, overall it has 3 or 4 trades to work on to test.
someone s/b able to code this in a hour or two max.
  • #29
  • May 19, 2008 5:23pm May 19, 2008 5:23pm
Great!! Where do you think you can help? Can you give more details on Imran's system with others and what you have noticed? Please be honest though, if you ran into some trouble with the system (like not as profitable), disclose that as well. Everything helps.

And don't formet to PM me with your email!

Thanks,
jd

Quoting Derm
I would be very interested in helping to make an EA for this system.

I have used Imran's system combined with another here on FF with great success.

This should be fun!
  • #30
  • May 19, 2008 5:25pm May 19, 2008 5:25pm
JD

Thanks for the post. Sounds like you have some great ideas.

Even if only single digit pips are obtainable each week, that should be plenty with proper lot sizing.

I'll try to get in touch with FX_Ninja but I haven't seen any posts from him in quite awhile. When there was a live trade room on Skype, his advice was priceless.

At the least, I will try to compile his posts into a single document.

Your enthusiasm for this project is infectious...can't wait to get started
  • #31
  • May 19, 2008 5:38pm May 19, 2008 5:38pm
can anyone tell me if this is profitable manually?
the macd is a little slow...12/20 ... a little late to the party from what I can tell. you would have to wait a couple bars for a retrace. (not my system - so maybe I am wrong) . Also, the volatility is a little suspect -- waves can cause the lag to be up and down to much....
both can be fixed but that changes the system.
  • #32
  • May 19, 2008 5:51pm May 19, 2008 5:51pm
That would be great thanks!!

Thanks about the comment. The enthusiasm will never die. I've been trading since I was a teenager and got my series 7 right out of the university at a downtown Chicago firm. And let me tell you, I've had so many times where I just got burned out, but it never ends and I don't think it will until I don't wake up one morning hopefully at a very old age. It's just a passion and some people get burned out and can't come back or recover. I've managed because I never ever go live with something that doesn't get my stamp of approval...some past traders hate it because they think it's good and then they want to go live right away without having it thoroughly checked for various market conditions to make sure you don't get completely wiped out on your worst type of market conditions for the strategy that your running. I passed up 3 jobs with major firms, one of them Lehman Brothers because the cut is just so low and contracts are inevitably involved. I took a great stable lead programmer job so that I can work on stuff like this for the past 2 years. Gone through probably 10 strategies, coded for about 4 of them, get burned up, but then always driven to keep going. Now I'm trying this. One of the main reasons is because of the potential. The risk to reward is massive. Starting a business or anything else requires massive loans. This can become much bigger and the risk is nothing compared to starting business. I think that's what has kept me going and will always no matter how the results turn out all the time.

jd

Quoting orion70
JD

Thanks for the post. Sounds like you have some great ideas.

Even if only single digit pips are obtainable each week, that should be plenty with proper lot sizing.

I'll try to get in touch with FX_Ninja but I haven't seen any posts from him in quite awhile. When there was a live trade room on Skype, his advice was priceless.

At the least, I will try to compile his posts into a single document.

Your enthusiasm for this project is infectious...can't wait to get started
  • #33
  • May 19, 2008 7:24pm May 19, 2008 7:24pm
Hi JDtraders,

I have been using the Imran's system for about a month now and find that it is very good, I implemented the system into my trading style along with my other charting softwares and the results were magnificent. I feel more confident when I use the system and in confirmation with my charts indicators to make trade decisions.

Sure I'd like to get involved into try to make the system fully automatic or semi-automatic if possible

Please let me know how I can help

sincerely,

BetoPiPs
  • #34
  • Edited 7:40pm May 19, 2008 7:28pm | Edited 7:40pm
welcome to forex!. I ... the 5mn is not an easy place to start-- even if you have coded 10... . hourly and daily would be a little less intense. ---. The 5 mn will burn you up quick... but this should be fun just for something to do.
Beto pips ... what do you do with the macd lag? ...or do you trade with 200
  • #35
  • May 19, 2008 7:46pm May 19, 2008 7:46pm
4XWeezal-

I'm not sure if your intention is for automation. Details regarding Imran's strategy at this point would probably be best answered in the original post by Imran. People there are always answering questions regarding his system. If you are interested in what we are trying to do, let us know and please let us know your experience.

Quoting 4XWeezal
welcome to forex!. I ... the 5mn is not an easy place to start-- even if you have coded 10... . hourly and daily would be a little less intense. ---. The 5 mn will burn you up quick... but this should be fun just for something to do.
Beto pips ... what do you do with the macd lag? ...or do you trade with 200
  • #36
  • May 19, 2008 7:58pm May 19, 2008 7:58pm
Wonderful! Great news! You would be a great asset then to the sub team that will be working on coming up with the best strategy brainstorming everyone's ideas. I recognize your name BetoPIPS...I think I saw it a few times in the first 50 pages of Imran's orginial thread, but I may be mistaken.

This will be fully auto. I have no intentions of a semi auto or alert system. The end goal is that you can sleep, go to your normal job, or if you really wanted to just watch what is happening while it is running, but not worry about what is happening. Then you won't have that feeling, crap I shouldn't not traded that or why did I just do that instead of sticking with the rules. Although it will be running on your computer if that is what you prefer and there will be parts of the program where you can terminate it or have it exit all trades and abort, but you won't want to do that.

As mentioned above, you would be great. I already have 2 people very interesed that I can see will bring a lot to the table. The key right now is to continue growing the team to a decent size. I noticed this thread was moved to a MetaTrader discussion forum which has less exposure. Forex gurus that might have great ideas and knowledge, but don't use MetaTrader might not see this thread, but we want people like that. I just hope this thread will continue to bring great people. I'm not looking for anyone that is in it just for the ride, but for working hard with everyone else to accomplish a great goal. I guess if you know anyone that may fit this description, PM or pass it along to that person.

Thanks,
jd

Quoting BetoPIPs
Hi JDtraders,

I have been using the Imran's system for about a month now and find that it is very good, I implemented the system into my trading style along with my other charting softwares and the results were magnificent. I feel more confident when I use the system and in confirmation with my charts indicators to make trade decisions.

Sure I'd like to get involved into try to make the system fully automatic or semi-automatic if possible

Please let me know how I can help

sincerely,

BetoPiPs
  • #37
  • May 19, 2008 8:26pm May 19, 2008 8:26pm
just surfing around. ...
not really "wildly" interested --- ... I have read his system -- but I have not had much success with forex pivot trading as the calculations varry so much by broker.....so I am a little leary-- ( ----I don't work very well with others so I would not be a good ea team member so I would pass on developing anything. I think there are so many ea's and indicators out there that could be modified that I only concentrate on entries, exits and customer indicators values.... I dont have any interest into getting into mm programming as that has too many problems .... these groups sometimes just get crazy in the MM area but weak on exits.. therefore, I try to avoid squares, sqiggless and circles. ...... Anyway, I was just trying to figure out how a trader could get this thing to 90% on the 5 mn using what is there in the system. I can see some issues that could take some time to solve...- anyway gl!
  • #38
  • May 19, 2008 8:44pm May 19, 2008 8:44pm
Gotcha! Thanks for being honest. As far as 90%. Yeah I know, I don't really believe it either. I did some preliminary testing today and didn't see close to 90%. That's exactly why Imran was saying it can't really be automated. A lot of systems out there say this because they just don't know when to exit, too many variables. Yeah it's 90% accurate that when you enter that you will make some profit before your stop loss is hit. I agree with that, but when to exit is the key. He was saying go for 10pips sometimes then 5 pips, then 120 pips etc, but they were all not based on a specific rule to follow even though he mentioned if you just follow the rules. So okay if it is 90% chance that you will make 5 - 10 pips with a SL of 25, well when you get hit with 25 loss plus spread and commission then it's not winning and vice versa. He was saying if you stick with rules you will be 90% but the rules were extremely vague and all over the place....that's why people say it can't be automated. That is truly the test if a strategy is successful or not in the end because if two exactly the same scenarios happen and one day you exit for 5 pips and another day 20 even with BB, EMAs, etc are the same, then you are just basically gambling with human intentions that will inevitably lead to loss. If someone is consistently profitable for a long time doing this, then they do have something in their mind saying oh this is happening I'm going to exit. Also, in his exits he mentions 7 different ones in the pdf, but not which one to take when. Well then there are no rules if you need to pick one of those and there is 90% chance of one of those exits being the right now, then you are working with chance as opposed to specific rules to follow and the end result is far less than 90%. On the other hand, there seem to be traders out there that took these so called rules and setup rules themselves to make it profitable for them and that's where the team will come in.

Anyway, I hope the best and I hope what I said makes sense to you. Let me know if you have any questions.

Thanks,
jd

Quoting 4XWeezal
just surfing around. ...
not really "wildly" interested --- ... I have read his system -- but I have not had much success with forex pivot trading as the calculations varry so much by broker.....so I am a little leary-- ( ----I don't work very well with others so I would not be a good ea team member so I would pass on developing anything. I think there are so many ea's and indicators out there that could be modified that I only concentrate on entries, exits and customer indicators values.... I dont have any interest into getting into mm programming as that has too many problems .... these groups sometimes just get crazy.. therefore, I try to avoid squares, sqiggless and circles. ...... Anyway, I was just trying to figure out how a trader could get this thing to 90% on the 5 mn using what is there in the system. I can see some issues that could take some time to solve...- anyway gl!
  • #39
  • May 19, 2008 9:09pm May 19, 2008 9:09pm
BetoPips-

Please let me know your email address. I tried to private message you and email, but it looks like your settings have them both turned off.

Thanks,
jd

Quoting BetoPIPs
Hi JDtraders,

I have been using the Imran's system for about a month now and find that it is very good, I implemented the system into my trading style along with my other charting softwares and the results were magnificent. I feel more confident when I use the system and in confirmation with my charts indicators to make trade decisions.

Sure I'd like to get involved into try to make the system fully automatic or semi-automatic if possible

Please let me know how I can help

sincerely,

BetoPiPs
  • #40
  • May 20, 2008 4:23am May 20, 2008 4:23am
I traded Imran's system a while back and thought it was really promising but then my day job got in the way and I found another system that gave me more conclusive entries. But I still thought that Imran's system has a huge potential if I could just get the human factor (i.e. myself) out of the way. That's one reason why I started looking at Imran's stuff again yesterday and then ended up at this thread.

It would be great if we could get Yas on board as well as khanm47. I went to the trading room this morning and khanm was giving signals. I would be really interested in an EA as I live in the US and I'm not that great at getting up in the middle of the night to catch the best moves. Having an EA that takes care of that would be a dream come true.
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