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Perplexed - year spent looking for system

  • #21
  • May 9, 2008 4:25pm May 9, 2008 4:25pm
Quoting exitand4getit
we need a brotherhood of trader worldwide organized. LOL
Huh? You mean you aren't already a member of BOTWO?
  • #22
  • May 9, 2008 5:20pm May 9, 2008 5:20pm
[quote=tdion;1989728]dude i just think that all TA is like trying to predict next month's weather with last month's weather.

quote]

I couldn't agree more. The problem I see with TA is that in all the charting/TA packages I have seen, you can only do TA on individual pairs/instruments and not on multiple instruments.

For me, analysing individual instruments is pointless. For instance, if GBPUSD breaks long, how do you know if GBP is strengthening or USD is weakening? However, if GBPUSD, GBPCHF, GBPJPY break long and EURGBP breaks short, you can be confident that banks are buying Sterling, so buy GBP and sell the weakest of USD, CHF, JPY or EUR. No TA/charting/software I have ever seen will give you that kind of signal. For entries at least, discretion is the only way for me.

I have never seen a TA system work long term, but then again, anyone with a successful TA system would be an idiot to divulge it.
  • #23
  • May 9, 2008 5:52pm May 9, 2008 5:52pm
Try this - poker has much clearer rules. Open up a poker account with $200. Work on it full time until it reaches $1000.00 but only join tables with $10.00 at a time. If you find yourself consistently going broke, don't trade. The point is you will encounter many of the situations that you encounter with trading, but they will be a bit clearer, with clearer rules. You will play some crap hands and get lucky and double up quickly, and just as quickly you will give it all back with those same garbage hands. Then you will play premium hands and build up and get those same hands cracked and give it all back. It is at this point that you realize that it takes a bit more to win, and to win consistently. You will begin to sit and watch a table before you dump your money into it to see if it is all tight players or loose players, to see if there are any patterns in the way that they bet, etc. You will learn to stay away from playing against big money as big money will always have the balls to crack your best hands, and eventually they do. You will begin to be able to pinpoint opportunities against certain weak players and focus your game on those. You will begin to realize that putting all of your eggs in one basket is ok as long as you have alot more eggs on the sidelines. To win consistently at online poker, you need to know very little. Premium hands, agressive, know who you are playing, small % of bankroll on table at any one time, dont play with $10 on a table where all other players have 100.00. AA gets cracked very often when there is relatively not enough money behind it and 9 other loose players on the table. The list goes on and on, but to make money on online poker consistently will give you alot of what you need in order to begin to even think about making money trading.

Why not poker then you ask. Parlaying a couple hundred bucks is easy in poker, but there is very little volume once you get up there. Trading gives you that volume. Cards is a good starting point because there are only 52 in a deck and they are laid right in front of your face, so you can immediately begin to master money management as a key component, whereas in trading you are initially so concerned with seeing the cards that you dont initially concern yourself as much with MM. Also, cards and "gambling" make it easier for you to understand that its not just about the cards, its not always what you have, but what others dont have and vice versa. Sometimes you can easily win a few good pots just by observing patterns in peoples bets. Trading can be the same way. Its not always the underlying fundies or technicals, but rather how people react to and interperet them.

Anyway, accomplishing this, although not an easy feat will be a productive step in your learning process. Not the only way to get there, just an option.
Man who scratches ass should not bite fingernails
  • #24
  • May 9, 2008 6:03pm May 9, 2008 6:03pm
By the way, if you find yourself on a table starting with more than $10, you have cheated and you can count that as failure. The goal is not to get lucky and reach $1000.00, but to get there at a steady pace. If you lose 4 $10 bankrolls at 4 different times and find yourself now joining a table with $40 so that you can more quickly recuperate your losses, you do not yet have the discipline to trade. The goal is $1000.00, but only $10 at a time starting on any one table. Dont be in a rush to get to the end, your quickest ticket there will be through pacience and consistency.
Man who scratches ass should not bite fingernails
  • #25
  • May 9, 2008 6:14pm May 9, 2008 6:14pm
Flexibility is easier to learn in cards and situations are seen much more clearly. You are dealt QQ and raise 4 times the big blind. One person on 10 person table calls your bet. The flop comes out AK2. Do you raise, do you call a raise and hang tight, or do you drop the cards. Chances are a big raise will make you drop your cards. The good thing is you have a little time to think about it. In trading, you may start out with a good hand(setup), but then the market rolls an AK2 on your queens. At this point you need to be flexible enough to know you are probably beat and drop the trade right there, not be hard as a rock and live by the hit profit or stop loss mantra, all within a second if that is the type of trading you are doing. Of course, the market may be bluffing you and you may hang tight for one more card, but to take that risk, you really need to know who you are playing well - at least enough to spot overwhelming reason as to why you think there may be a bluff here.
Ok, sorry for the run ons.
Man who scratches ass should not bite fingernails
  • #26
  • Edited 7:23pm May 9, 2008 6:40pm | Edited 7:23pm
Quoting exitand4getit
Thanks for all your replies!!

I have downloaded nd deleted more platforms then any one I know. In the last year I have read everything from trading with this MA to that MA, to Fibs to MACD and so one.

But one thread has made a big change in my thinking like none other. James16 has opened my mind to price action. I have read through his thread and wrote down all the notes I could see.

I also read Jacko's and Feb2865. All are very good and very similar.
They all work off price action, using as little to no indicators, "trading naked"
as some said.

I am going to use my economy check and give it to James16, LOL.
One day I will have made enough money so that I won't get another one of these checks again, but it is my money in the first place.

The platform I like a lot here lately is OANDA. At first when I used it last year I didn't like it. Now I have mobile wireless broadband on my laptop and I love OANDA.

I really like the mobile broadband. f you want to look at that go to Sprint's website they have unlimited all the other limit you to how much you can use ea. month. I did a speed test with it the other day 1.4 mbs download and 265 kbps upload. Not bad.

Anyway thanks for the tips above you guys gave me.

This is the best forum and all you people are the best. I am glad I am entering into this world of trading. we need a brotherhood of trader worldwide organized. LOL
Hello Friend,

I spent 2-3 years trying to find a system. Took training classes. Paid 6K for single seminars, tried every software I got my hands on from Vantage Point, ASCTrend, and a lot of others and spent thousands on them. Tried every indicator that I got my hands on. Studied every book and every system and bought every system that I could. Wrote my own indicators in Easy language and MT4. After doing all that I was able to blow my account almost 5 times. First I blew 10K, then 10K, then 5K then 1K then 1K. The only thing I had was committment and never ending resolve and I was not willing to quit if it took me rest of my life.

FINALLY: one day I got the revelation and realized what is wrong and where.

Trading has never been so much fun and so much easy after that day: Following is the information or learning I got after investing about 50K in this business. This might be of no value to anyone else as it is available free of charge every where on the net. The only difference is whatever you read on the net does not come with a belief that I have now and I paid for it. I BELIEVE in it like no one esle can. Here it goes:

1:---- if you want to succeed you have to believe that you are on your own and you cant depend on anyone else. Dont expect that someone will tell you a secret system to print money because there is NONE.

2----The best system is that you devise for yourself by yourself. That is the only one that will work for you.

3---STOP looking for holy grails. THERE IS NONE. Believe in yourelf.

4-- Your guess about market direction is as good as any guru out there with years of experience. FUTURE IS UNKNOWN.

5-- Your success in trading DOES NOT DEPEND on predictiing prices but on other factors like money management and controlling risk.

6-- Do not run after any indicator. They are all useless rather harmful. They are history and have nothing to do with future or present. Trade the prsent only. To me anyone who tries to do a price analysis to make a prediction is the biggest idiot in this world.

7-- Keep your system as simple as possible. Choose a time frame you are comfortable with and stick to it.

8-- Make a complete trading plan and stick to it. I wrote my plan myself.

Here is what I do now.

BEFORE : I used to watch 20 pairs on 6 monitors all the time.
NOW: I watch only three pairs EURUSD, GBPUSD and USDJPY and trade mostly only one EURUSD.

BEFORE: My charts were cluttered with indicators and moving averages, pivot points, ADX and you name it.

NOW: My charts have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING on them except price candles. Not even trend lines. I can see a trendline with my eye. If I cant I dont need and believe in it.

I risk only 1% of my account on any one trade and my target is 1% daily gain in my equity. If I have a 3% gain on my equity on anyone day I quit trading further for that day.

I tried different time frames and have settled for 1 Hour time frame for day trading. I look at 4H and daily but trade only 1 Hour. Entry and exit rules are simple. Very simple. I adjust my trades on hourly basis. My trading system is based on 3 concepts:
1---- FUTURE IS UNKONWN--TO ME AND EVERYONE ELSE
2---- TREND IS MORE LIKELY TO CONTINUE THAN REVERSE
3---- TRADE WHAT YOU SEE NOT WHAT YOU THINK.

Trade only during active hours or peak hours of the day.

Finally I am free from all indictors and softwares. YOU DO NOT NEED anything to trade other than A PRICE CHART and a GOOD SET OF EYES.

Now for all of you to laugh at here is my buy signal:

A bull candle with close above midpoint of the previous candle.

And sell signal:

A bear candle with close below midpoint of previous candle.

Dont hesitate to reverse direction if you get a revese signal. There are some other rules:

If you are long and a reverse candle forms whose range is within upper half of previous candle. Maintain your position.

Use a stop of 35 pips including spread and trail it.

Target prominent support resistance areas for profit targets.....

There are still some other rules to cope with different situations.. .... but all rules are created by me and for me...

AND THE LAST: WHEN IN DOUBT KEEP OUT. or FLIP A COIN... if you use your own brain you will be 80% of the time wrong. At least by flipping a coin you have a 50/50 chance

GOOD LUCK TRADING.
  • #27
  • May 9, 2008 9:18pm May 9, 2008 9:18pm
I think the market just sort of buzzzess around until you get up to the daily.
Small money getting pushed around to the brokers whims.
Not quite able to give you a good system to hit at it at at a high level.. ....... People talk about trend, I dont think very few traders can define it. weekly up daily down 4hour up 1 hour down. multi fibs ....Stop loss 40? 60? 80? Support 1 bar 2 bar 3 bar 4 bar? divergence,
then the indicators, macd, rsi, stoch, it just goes on and on. Then the elliot wave and gartley and all the other patterns..
Take the $... its 38% fib retrace on the weekly and downtrend on the hour?
which way? 1 bar up and 2 bars back? hmmm....don't know.. follow the trend? yak yak yak yak yak yak ...use this system. use that system blah blah blah. can you say repaint, repaint, repaint. .MONDAY morning q'bs.most traders. .. Its in you if you just try harder and work harder. that will get you bankrupt faster than you can reload your account.
  • #28
  • May 9, 2008 10:37pm May 9, 2008 10:37pm
Quoting 4XWeezal
I think the market just sort of buzzzess around until you get up to the daily.
Small money getting pushed around to the brokers whims.
Not quite able to give you a good system to hit at it at at a high level.. ....... People talk about trend, I dont think very few traders can define it. weekly up daily down 4hour up 1 hour down. multi fibs ....Stop loss 40? 60? 80? Support 1 bar 2 bar 3 bar 4 bar? divergence,
then the indicators, macd, rsi, stoch, it just goes on and on. Then the elliot wave and gartley and all the other patterns..
Take the $... its 38% fib retrace on the weekly and downtrend on the hour?
which way? 1 bar up and 2 bars back? hmmm....don't know.. follow the trend? yak yak yak yak yak yak ...use this system. use that system blah blah blah. can you say repaint, repaint, repaint. .MONDAY morning q'bs.most traders. .. Its in you if you just try harder and work harder. that will get you bankrupt faster than you can reload your account.



In medical practice there is a well known axiom: "When there are multiple explanations for a condition/illness, nobody has found the right answer yet"

Trading is just alike. How many "killing", "finally found", "ultimate", "holy grail" system have we seen around? Too much for me to believe in any of them.

Any tool we use to read the market (PA, fundamentals, pure TA, intermarket relationships, Fibs, TL, S/R....................) will, ate best, tell us how is the market "mood", an how it came to the present point. Using them to predict the future move is an historical illusion that most times becomes a huge trap...

Cheers!
Many share my views with me. But I don't share them with them...
  • #29
  • May 10, 2008 10:33am May 10, 2008 10:33am
true, but that doesn't make folks good traders.
On the smaller levels the market gives you the exact same look but maybe an extention to just a bit farther is easily doable and whammo! it turns or goes against you just a bit further or your in and doesnt go as far as you think. That' is the perplexity of it all and puts folks in the poor house.
My feeling is also that if the gurus' have to sell it to you, they havent figured it out themselves. More shee people to slaughter in another manner of speeking.
  • #30
  • May 10, 2008 10:03pm May 10, 2008 10:03pm
Quoting Lucky57

1:---- if you want to succeed you have to believe that you are on your own and you cant depend on anyone else. Dont expect that someone will tell you a secret system to print money because there is NONE.


- Lucky you are right, but as a new person coming into the field with a track record of losses, the hardest part is to depend on themselves, thus they go and seek advice and try systems so that they can have some success to start building that confidence.


2----The best system is that you devise for yourself by yourself. That is the only one that will work for you.

Again, u are right, and every successful trader will say that too, now I just want all the new traders to understand that to get to the point of devising your own system will take hundreds or thousands of hours of research and doing live and demo trades where you will know how your own psychology reacts to a system or drawdown or market characteristics.

3---STOP looking for holy grails. THERE IS NONE. Believe in yourelf.

Right again.


4-- Your guess about market direction is as good as any guru out there with years of experience. FUTURE IS UNKNOWN.


Thats true, but not a 100%. Trading like even economics, is more art than science. My economics professor used to say that alot. A guess from a newbie trader for market direction versus an experienced trader/analyst is not equally good. Just because theres uncertainty about future direction, doesn't mean you cant plan a projected path, and plan if the projected path fails. I think new traders don't have sufficient knowledge to determine key levels of the market to know if this level holds, should we go long or short, key s/r levels, etc. Thats what it really comes down to. No one can really predict what the next 5 min candle will be, but given basic trends, the way most successful traders trade is that if certain levels hold, they'll take certain positions whether long or short, and that analysis is what the new traders lack. And even if they had that analysis, to guide their trade through with proper money management is what the new traders lack that can only come from experience.

5-- Your success in trading DOES NOT DEPEND on predictiing prices but on other factors like money management and controlling risk.

- Exactly what I was saying above, prediction in direction doesnt mean anything if you dont have proper risk management.

6-- Do not run after any indicator. They are all useless rather harmful. They are history and have nothing to do with future or present. Trade the prsent only. To me anyone who tries to do a price analysis to make a prediction is the biggest idiot in this world.


- An indicator is a tool, a tool that is useful to an experienced trader but can be harmful to a new trader if not used properly. When I started to trade first I didnt know what indicators were telling me except that its pointing down so maybe i should sell and vice versa. Thats the problem and why indicators got a bad wrap that it was used by new traders solely as entry and exit without perception of market. Indicator is just that, it tells you a story, now how you act after determining the story is all up to you. So learn what an indicator is trying to tell you perhaps, and if you want to know something from the market, then use the indicator that may give you insight into those questions, but they should not be used exclusively and thats the folly of most traders using indicators. Again its just a tool like..


7-- Keep your system as simple as possible. Choose a time frame you are comfortable with and stick to it.

- And this for most new traders will take more than a year, maybe even two years, you have to determine what you want to see from the market and then go to that particular timeframe to see how price reacts. I use multiple time frames, but I don't even realise that i'm doing that, its just second nature now.

8-- Make a complete trading plan and stick to it. I wrote my plan myself.

- Again, that takes alot of losses and understanding where you as a trader was failing. I think its important for us to analyse our mistakes, and only through that can we see our personality, trading faults, and devise a plan to counter the faults we have in our trading styles.
Again, the reason I posted this was because I've read what lucky posted hundreds of times from other people as well, but as a new trader, all those doesnt necessarily makes sense so I wanted to show that the perception developed at the stage where lucky is at comes after years of hard work and lots of live trades, and only then all these click and makes sense and you have the confidence in yourself to say that you dont need to listen or ask anyone and only believe in yourself, because you have been through the belly of this beast and you know what makes it tick
  • #31
  • May 10, 2008 10:44pm May 10, 2008 10:44pm
Price action is useful, especially when it's used in conjunction with elasticity.
  • #32
  • Edited 9:55am May 11, 2008 8:03am | Edited 9:55am
Quoting megamo
- Again, that takes alot of losses and understanding where you as a trader was failing. I think its important for us to analyse our mistakes, and only through that can we see our personality, trading faults, and devise a plan to counter the faults we have in our trading styles.
Again, the reason I posted this was because I've read what lucky posted hundreds of times from other people as well, but as a new trader, all those doesnt necessarily makes sense so I wanted to show that the perception developed at the stage where lucky is at comes after years of hard work and lots of live trades, and only then all these click and makes sense and you have the confidence in yourself to say that you dont need to listen or ask anyone and only believe in yourself, because you have been through the belly of this beast and you know what makes it tick
Dear Megamo,

Thank you for taking time to read my post and replying in detail. I want to reply a few points in your post; may be it will help make my point of view clear.

In my opinion the following things are ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY TO SUCCEED;

1... MINDSET

what is your mindset when you enter this business. Do you see yourself trading 10-20-30 years from now. If you are here for a quick burst of adrenalene, you are in a wrong place. Vagas is better for that. To find your mindset ask the following questions to yourself:

  1. Do you have a set limit of money where if you lose you are qoing to quit?
  2. Do you have a set limit of time for success that if you did not make it till that time you are going to quit?
  3. Is quitting an option for you at any stage for any reason?

If answer to any one of these questions is YES; you are a loser and sooner you quit the better.

SYSTEM

you have to have a system to trade.

Definition of a system
A system is nothing more than a set of rules that govern our trading. These rules tell us:
ü When to buy
ü When to sell
ü When to exit
ü When to take profits
ü When to stop our losses
ü When to keep out of market
ü How much to buy or sell…………
Plus any other rules that we may specify to increase our profits or limit our losses.

System trading means we execute our trades according to these rules. They are our trading Constitution. We don’t make or bend rules as we trade but we make rules when we are NOT trading. When everything is written in place and you sit to trade, DO NOT MAKE ANY CHANGES IN IT while trading. During trading hours concentrate on only EXECUTION of your trades according to your rules. If you feel that a rule is questionable, note it but don’t change it at that point. After when you are not in any trade, think about it and study the past market data to re-evaluate it. Make all your decisions while you are not in a trade. That is the time to use your brain. During trading only pay attention to following the rules. This single point will save you a lot if you have the courage and the wisdom to follow it.

Here is how to find a system that works:

Try every system that you get your hands on. Keep on throwing that dont work. One day you will come across something that will work. OR, if you keep on eliminating bad things the only left will be good. Look at yourself. To improve yourelf you dont have to intentionally do good things; just stop doing bad things. What do you think will happen; when you stop doing bad things the only you can do is GOOD.

it will be hard for you to believe but in my opinion system is the least important part of a TRADING PLAN. Take any system and you can use it to win if you have DISCIPLINE TO FOLLOW IT. Dicipline is the hard part because I know I had and still have hard time following my own system. To teach myself patience and dicipline I fast once every week. That is a part of my trading plan.

Remember Edison tried 10000 times to find something that works for a light bulb. that is the kind of resolve you need to win in any business or endevor in life. Frustration is the key.

2.... LOSSES

If I have to teach somebody how to trade, my first lesson will be:
OPEN AN ACCOUNT and LOSE ALL YOUR MONEY IN IT.

yes you read it right. For me the hardest part to learn was to take and accept losses. If you can accept a loss you have already won half the game. Accepting means after losing you dont feel depressed or bad.

Treat losses as cost of doing business. You cannot win unless you learn to lose and accept it as part of business and life. You cannot succeed before learning to fail. Failures are step stones of success and so are losses step stones of profits. Losses are your inputs. They are the cost of staying in the market to make profits. The sooner you understand and realize this fact the better. You should try to limit them to a minimum according to your system but you cannot and should NEVER try to avoid them altogether because you cannot.
Think about this. Can you try to drive without ever applying brakes? When you apply brakes, the gas you spent on accelerating your car is wasted but we do it everyday and never think about it. Trading losses are brakes that are necessary to keep us safe. Infact I think the worst thing that can happen to a new trader is a streak of wins. That is a sure recepie for disaster. It happened to me I know it. On my first account of 10K after three days my account was 13K+ and rest is history.
BELIEVE IN YOURSELF
How I got such strong beliefs to believe in myself is not by accident. I tried everything. I mean everything: for example:

  1. READ ALMOST EVERY BOOK ON FOREX OR TRADING IN GENERAL
  2. BOUGHT EVERY SOFTWARE THAT SOMEONE COULD CONVINCE ME IT WILL WORK.
  3. ATTENEDED EVERY SEMINAR THAT I THOUGHT WOULD HELP ME IN MY TRADING
  4. BOUGHT EVERY SYSTEM THAT I COULD AFFORD AND PAY FOR IT
  5. SUBSCRIBED TO TRADING SIGNALS ON THE NET WHERE YOU SEE THEIR PAST RECRODS OF THOUSANDS OF PIPS MONTLY.
  6. SUBSCRIBED TO LIVE TRADING SIGNALS WHERE YOU ARE IN A TRADING ROOM LIVE AND THEY ISSUE YOU BUY AND SELL SIGNALS
  7. SCOURED THROUGH FORUMS TRYING TO FIND THAT HOLY GRAIL

Finally I could find no other source where to look for. What to try? I could find no finger I could hold. I realized at that point that I was on my own and I had to do something if I had to survive. I felt like TOM HANKS in the Movie "Cast Away", where he is stranded on an island after a plane crash. He had to devise a way to get out of there or die. Well he did find a way so did I.

I want to quote from your post:

"to get to the point of devising your own system will take hundreds or thousands of hours of research and doing live and demo trades where you will know how your own psychology reacts to a system or drawdown or market characteristics. "

you are absolutely right. it is HARD WORK. Nothing comes easy. It takes years of schooling to become a doctor or engineer and them years of practice to become good at it. Why people think trading is any different or is easy. it is HARD. And the HARD part is the fight you have to put with your own self and not the markets.

MARKET DIRETION

Does anybody know what the next tick is going to be. Is it going to be an uptick or downtick? Market direction is made up of those ticks. If you dont pre-concieve a direction in your mind, you will find it very easy to change your direction as the market does. I call my system OSB--One step behind.. I am always one step behind market in my time frame. I visualize following the market no matter how many turns it takes, I am always ONE STEP BEHIND IT.

if you have spent a few thousand hours in front of yoru computer watching the price movement, you dont need any analysis to find key levels of supprot or resistance. Just look at chart and you can tell. But hard part is not how to do analysis but to BELIEVE IN YOUR OWN ANALYSIS. We want someone else to tell us where the levels are. We dont beleive in ourselves because we BELIEVE that others have better understanding of the markets and if they are wrong we can atleast blame them for being wrong.

INDICATORS;

Believe me I just want to THROW UP as soon as I even hear the word indicator. I Have spent so much time studying and writing my own indicators than anything else. Take for example= MACD or a MOVING AVERAGE CROSS... take any of the indicator and go to achart. Count the number of times they cross and give you a buy or sell signal and the number of times that signal will be profitable. I mean take every cross as you dont know what cross will be profitable. You will be amazed to see that success rate is less than 50%. Well I think a coin is better than indicators which has a success rate of at least 50%.

We use indicators to confirm our preheld beliefs. At any time you can find plenty of them to give you either buy or sell signals depending on what you WANT to believe. Same indicator will give you a buy on one time frame and a sell on another time frame; who you are going to believe. You have better chance of survival taking the opposite signals what an indicator tells you because by the time an indicator tells you to buy the move is over and the market is about to reverse. I once created a demo account and entered my trades by just flipping a coin and managed my money according to my rules. At the end of week I was in profit.

FINAL WORDS
IT IS ABSOLUTELY NOT IMPORTANT WHAT MARKET DOES BUT WHAT YOU DO
The above statement I have written in bold and stuck to my monitor screen.
Traders think that market action is the source of profits or losses. It is not. It is what we do that makes the difference.
I can keep on writing and never stop but it is getting too long so rest for later...

  • #33
  • May 11, 2008 11:11am May 11, 2008 11:11am
Nice post, Lucky!

I can say I'm a beginner at Forex, but I've been trading brazilian stock market for more than 5 years... So, sure I got some losses, they are nothing new to me at all. Of course, Forex market is so different, but my trading mechanics is an acquired skill that doesn't change that much, and I'm still adapting to this market.

The losses are our best teacher in any market

The problem is that, when we are beginners, we tend to face every loss as a personal failure, a defeat.... it's the "being wrong" sensation that screws the mind. We got an instinct that tells us that we must be always right, then when the market says "Sorry, dude, you were wrong on this trade" we feel worthless, depressed...

When a trader understands that loosing is an unavoidable thing that will happen many times, and has nothing to do with "being wrong or right" feelings, he becomes a better trader. As you said, every business has its costs.

Cheers!
Many share my views with me. But I don't share them with them...
  • #34
  • May 11, 2008 11:26am May 11, 2008 11:26am
Quoting Lucky57


INDICATORS;

Believe me I just want to THROW UP as soon as I even hear the word indicator. I Have spent so much time studying and writing my own indicators than anything else. Take for example= MACD or a MOVING AVERAGE CROSS... take any of the indicator and go to achart. Count the number of times they cross and give you a buy or sell signal and the number of times that signal will be profitable. I mean take every cross as you dont know what cross will be profitable. You will be amazed to see that success rate is less than 50%. Well I think a coin is better than indicators which has a success rate of at least 50%.


FINAL WORDS
IT IS ABSOLUTELY NOT IMPORTANT WHAT MARKET DOES BUT WHAT YOU DO
The above statement I have written in bold and stuck to my monitor screen.
Traders think that market action is the source of profits or losses. It is not. It is what we do that makes the difference.
I can keep on writing and never stop but it is getting too long so rest for later...

Its what we do that makes the difference - thank you - i mean if i had sold instead of bought i would have mad $1000 INSTEAD OF LOST IT. Thanks for the obvious. As for indicators, they are all part of the package of information and its not the buy and sell signals that you should be looking for per se; so to say that they are useless is really only a way of saying that you have not found a way for them to be of use to you.
Man who scratches ass should not bite fingernails
  • #35
  • May 11, 2008 11:37am May 11, 2008 11:37am
Quoting Leugimp
Its what we do that makes the difference - thank you - i mean if i had sold instead of bought i would have mad $1000 INSTEAD OF LOST IT. Thanks for the obvious. As for indicators, they are all part of the package of information and its not the buy and sell signals that you should be looking for per se; so to say that they are useless is really only a way of saying that you have not found a way for them to be of use to you.
Sure Indicators are part of the package or information. But they are BAD INFORMATION. Information that can hurt you. This is a belief that I have and may be to acquire that belief requires thousands of hours of work. May be one day you will think the way I do today.. may be I might change my mind one day but for NOW I believe indicators are harmful. Why we need an indicator to tell us something that has happened in the past when we can see with our own eyes what is happening now right in front of us. Can we just have a strong belief in ourselves; a belief taht is stronger than just these indicators. Who is the person who cant see when candles change their color. Why do we need to believe in an indicator to tell us the same thing way after that when it means nothing.

There is another place where SUCCESS comes before WORK and it is not a dictionary but your MIND. Every success and failure is created in our minds and in our beliefs. You are what you THINK you are. Ever success and failure is created in our minds before it happens in real world.
  • #36
  • May 11, 2008 11:00pm May 11, 2008 11:00pm
Quoting Lucky57
Sure Indicators are part of the package or information. But they are BAD INFORMATION. Information that can hurt you. This is a belief that I have and may be to acquire that belief requires thousands of hours of work. May be one day you will think the way I do today.. may be I might change my mind one day but for NOW I believe indicators are harmful. Why we need an indicator to tell us something that has happened in the past when we can see with our own eyes what is happening now right in front of us. Can we just have a strong belief in ourselves; a belief taht is stronger than just these indicators. Who is the person who cant see when candles change their color. Why do we need to believe in an indicator to tell us the same thing way after that when it means nothing.

There is another place where SUCCESS comes before WORK and it is not a dictionary but your MIND. Every success and failure is created in our minds and in our beliefs. You are what you THINK you are. Ever success and failure is created in our minds before it happens in real world.
Information can only hurt you if you allow it to hurt you by preconceiving an incorrect use of it in YOUR MIND. Like i said earlier, information is not bad, maybee the only way in which you know how to process it is bad. Just because you haven't learned how to use indicators in a way that can better your trading performance doesn't mean that there arent ways. And just because you read "the secret" yesterday doesn't make you psychologically sound either. You cannot will your way to success, only work your way there. Obviously if you dont believe that you can ever be successfull doing this, you wouldnt be doing it.

I will never get to where you are with thousands more hours of work, and hopefully not - as i wouldnt ever want to waste the tens of thousands that i put in. One more time, there are many tools that can help you with your trading if you know the strong usage, obviously if you are taking most for "book" buy and sell signals you will likely have ahard time with them. If you aren't creative enough to learn how to exploit them, than just find someone who is, or develop your own way without them if that works for you.
Man who scratches ass should not bite fingernails
  • #37
  • May 12, 2008 12:29am May 12, 2008 12:29am
Quoting Leugimp
Information can only hurt you if you allow it to hurt you by preconceiving an incorrect use of it in YOUR MIND. Like i said earlier, information is not bad, maybee the only way in which you know how to process it is bad. Just because you haven't learned how to use indicators in a way that can better your trading performance doesn't mean that there arent ways. And just because you read "the secret" yesterday doesn't make you psychologically sound either. You cannot will your way to success, only work your way there. Obviously if you dont believe that you can ever be successfull doing this, you wouldnt be doing it.

I will never get to where you are with thousands more hours of work, and hopefully not - as i wouldnt ever want to waste the tens of thousands that i put in. One more time, there are many tools that can help you with your trading if you know the strong usage, obviously if you are taking most for "book" buy and sell signals you will likely have ahard time with them. If you aren't creative enough to learn how to exploit them, than just find someone who is, or develop your own way without them if that works for you.
OK.. the point is to make money. If indicators are working for you and you have found a way to make money with their use. Excellent... I can now consistently make money without using any indicator and I will never go back to them without a solid reason. I could not find any indicator that could work for me. I have still open mind. If you can convince me about any set of indicators that have worked for you, I am willing to change my mind. Lets us share our techniques with eachother for benefit of us both instead of just for the sake of argument.

If you are interested I can send you my system and how I trade and you can share yours. I am not afraid of being wrong ever. I might be still doing stupid things and dont know. Your help will be appreciated.

I am here for learning and not proving myself right. We have a place called trading desk where we can fight to prove ourselves right everyday. .. I am willing listen to even a child who has never traded. You never know when you find something somewhere that can be helpful and beneficial.
  • #38
  • May 12, 2008 4:48pm May 12, 2008 4:48pm
Quoting Lucky57
OK.. the point is to make money. If indicators are working for you and you have found a way to make money with their use. Excellent... I can now consistently make money without using any indicator and I will never go back to them without a solid reason. I could not find any indicator that could work for me. I have still open mind. If you can convince me about any set of indicators that have worked for you, I am willing to change my mind. Lets us share our techniques with eachother for benefit of us both instead of just for the sake of argument.

If you are interested I can send you my system and how I trade and you can share yours. I am not afraid of being wrong ever. I might be still doing stupid things and dont know. Your help will be appreciated.

I am here for learning and not proving myself right. We have a place called trading desk where we can fight to prove ourselves right everyday. .. I am willing listen to even a child who has never traded. You never know when you find something somewhere that can be helpful and beneficial.
well spoken - Im all ears
Man who scratches ass should not bite fingernails
  • #39
  • May 12, 2008 7:02pm May 12, 2008 7:02pm
Ok, youve spent a year looking for the holy grail and didnt find it. Great - one lesson learned. Your next move is the J16 subscription. Also good, providing you really have learned the first lesson. Stop looking for push button, automatic profit, trading systems and focus your full attention on what the J16 guys are teaching. Finally after you've mastered PA but find you are still unable to be profitable you will come to the last hurdle - yourself! The all powerful YOU decides whether you will win or lose. If, deep down, you believe you dont deserve to win, you will lose. Even with the best techniques, you will miss winners and risk more on losers or a myriad of other mistakes that will result in losses with the exact same method another trader does very well with. You are on the right path, you are heading in the right direction. Start looking within for answers as to why you have caused your life to be where it is right now, needing market success to solve your problems. Comming to the market without facing yourself first, is a recipe for total disaster as the "my life is ruined" thread demonstrates. How does continually losing money, month after month until you are completely ruined sound? How are you going to prevent this and produce a happier ending against tdions' stacked odds?

sorry to interupt your thread, feel free to disregard my words, Dont take it personally or be offended by anything I have said. These words are intended for myself.
BTC Return This Year: na
  • #40
  • May 12, 2008 7:33pm May 12, 2008 7:33pm
Quoting Lucky57
IT IS ABSOLUTELY NOT IMPORTANT WHAT MARKET DOES BUT WHAT YOU DO
This is absolutely ridiculous. Of course it matters what the market does. I will argue that the market is 100% of your success or failure, because it always has the last word.... not your planning and waiting for setups.
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